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Will Craig's Third Outing be his Goldfinger?

TopGearJB007TopGearJB007
edited November 2011 in Skyfall Posts: 624
I was thinking about this earlier today and it hit me-- each actor's 3rd Bond film, excluding Lazenby and Dalton, obviously, seems to be their "go- to" Bond film. I don't know how else to put it. Whenever someone says Connery, Goldfinger comes to mind. With Moore, The Spy Who Loved Me. Brosnan, arguably, TWINE.

The third film seems to represent the Bond film that becomes everyone's favorite for each actor.

I seem to think that Craig will be able to pull it off, although Casino Royale is a hard one to beat.

Do you understand what I'm aiming for here? What are your guys' thoughts? Will Skyfall be Craig's Goldfinger or TSWLM?

TGJB
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Comments

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    ^

    I don't believe that at all. When I think of Connery I think of FRWL or TB, not GF. When I think of Brosnan GE comes to mind first naturally because it didn't sink like the others for me. I wish well for Skyfall, and if it isn't Dan's best, that is fine. He has done more than enough as Bond and made me care for his Bond like a person. I expect Skyfall to ramp it up, and hopefully be able to compete with CR. No matter how it spins I think Dan's work so far as Bond has been brilliant.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited November 2011 Posts: 14,680
    I believe it will (and I hope so). After all, Goldfinger set the template for many things in Bond- the Aston, multiple Bond girls, and henchmen with steel weapons among other things. With all this talk about Skyfall going back to the blueprint, I'd say yes, it will be his Goldfinger- albeit with more realism. Gee, it's so exciting to read/type/hear/say the words "Craig's Goldfinger", so here I go again: can't wait for CRAIG'S GOLDFINGER!
  • forgotmyusernameforgotmyusername
    edited November 2011 Posts: 2,782
    i understand what you're saying man. But dude, Connery's classic is considered to be FRWL. Moore for me was his first one, Brosnan for a lot of fams his is first one. As for desperate Dan, he still hasn't done Bond film yet; so the third official film him, will be his first for me...so fingers crossed it'll be his definitive Bond moment.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,252
    You beat me to the punch. I've been thinking this same thing. Now I realize that there are as many opinions on what films are the best, which film of each actor is there best. I tend to agree that the third film of each actor is there best. Goldfinger is Connery's. He looks his best physically, filled out a bit from his first two excellent outings as Bond. The music, sets, villians, everything is top knotch. I have always thought that Thunderball is where the bloat began to creep in. The same can be said for Roger Moore and The Spy Who Loved Me. Everything clicked. Then came Moonraker and it's excesses. I feel the same about The World is Not Enough, Brosnan's best. I loved Casino Royale, did not like Quantum of Solace at all and I wonder, will the third time be the charm for Craig?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,680
    The other thing that GF has in common with SF is the lack of a recurring organization i.e. SPECTRE/Quantum. It's the first time we see Connery/Craig squaring off against a new threat.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    As far as the public at large is concerned Goldfinger and The Spy Who Loved Me are remembered foundly. Skyfall could well have it in itself to do the same. Also of note, the most remembered third films of past actors, meant at least 6 films. I'd love that from Craig. A long way off I know but it may hold some significance.
  • TopGearJB007TopGearJB007
    Posts: 624
    I think I know now what I was trying to say.

    Goldfinger and TSWLM both have all the classic elements to them; all the most memorable and instantly recognizable elements to them.

    Goldfinger has the DB5, Auric Goldfinger, Oddjob, the classic gadgets.
    TSWLM has the submarine Lotus and Jaws.

    Will Craig's 3rd film be as memorable as these 2 films? Will it have all the classic elements to it that make it an instant classic?
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    It's being touted as 'classic Bond', so it may well do. Along with it being a strong story, we could have a winner on our hands.
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    Posts: 1,699
    The fact that Craig said he and the filmmakers are aiming to make SF 'a Bond film with a capital B' suggests that, yes, they're all out to make this 'un as much a classic - as much, if you will, the defining Bond film of his era - as they can.

    Clearly then, yes, they're all hoping that SF will be his GF/ Spy.

    And the notion of the third Bond film as the Bond film in a successful 007 actor's tenure resurrecting itself in Craig's era makes perfect sense when you think about it. The first effort is the introduction (getting the actor out of the blocks in hopefully a damn good movie); the second about consolidation (giving the audience somewhat the same as they just had and underlining the actor in the role); the third then is about upping the stakes and giving the audience the best possible ride - whatever that'll be.

    It certainly - to my mind - worked in the Conners and Sir Rog eras; less so in The Brozzer's, let's be fair. I mean, TWINE is watchable hokum, but I think many (big Bond fans or casual film fans) agree that his first, GE, was his best, even if his performance in that one wasn't...
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    With Connery I think of Dr. No, with Moore I think of Live and Let Die, and with Brosnan I think of GoldenEye. I almost always think of each Bond's first film.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited November 2011 Posts: 14,680
    The third movie will also be the deciding factor in whether Craig/EON still have what it takes to keep people interested. The sequel becoming a critical failure can be forgiven for not rivaling CR, but if it's repeated next time around, I'd be worried about 007's future. So, I can imagine there's a lot of pressure on them to give us a stellar film.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    The third movie will also be the deciding factor in whether Craig/EON still have what it takes to keep people interested. The sequel becoming a critical failure can be forgiven for not rivalling CR, but if it's repeated third time around, I'd be worried about 007's future. So, I can imagine there's a lot of pressure on them to give us a stellar film.
    If EON kept making Bond films after DAD, SF has nothing to worry about.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Hell, I'd say since Eon kept making Bond films after AVTAK, Skyfall's got nothing to worry about.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Hell, I'd say since Eon kept making Bond films after AVTAK, Skyfall's got nothing to worry about.
    True that'.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Will Skyfall be Craig's Goldfinger or TSWLM?
    We can hope and dream. GF and TSWLM are formulaic but highly entertaining entries in the series(unlike QOS). Craig has already had his OHMSS with CR. I would happily welcome a fun GF type romp right now.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Will SKYFALL be Craig's GOLDFINGER?

    God, I hope not. GOLDFINGER is not a very good film.
  • TopGearJB007TopGearJB007
    edited November 2011 Posts: 624
    Will SKYFALL be Craig's GOLDFINGER?

    God, I hope not. GOLDFINGER is not a very good film.
    ಠ_ಠ wut

  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    edited November 2011 Posts: 1,894
    Okay, outside the PTS, Pussy Galore, and the laser-table scene, GOLDFINGER is a very poor film. Bond is generally incompetent throughout it, spending most of his time in captivity (and when he's free, he's getting bystanders killed) and he has to rely entirely on somebody else to free him at the end and save him from certain death. Otherwise, the film is filled subplots that come out of nowhere and end before they have a resolution (like Jill Masterson - she serves no point to the story and could be removed entirely without affecting anything) and scenes that serve little purpose other than to pad the running time out (and it's already a short film). Goldfinger himself is completely non-threatening and almost as incompetent as Bond (seriously, who builds a prison cell directly beneath the room where he reveals his master plan, and conveniently includes a way for any prisoner to listen in to his schemes?). But most people overlook the flaws in the film simply because of the "Do you expect me to talk?" / "No, Mister Bond, I expect you to die!" exchange, which - while brilliant - does not make up for the rest of the film.
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    edited November 2011 Posts: 5,745
    I like it because it challenges Connery as an actor. I mean its not hard to do what he did in the film, but I like the variation it provides. Its more of a dialogue film. It lets Bond spread his wings, and more importantly lets his charm annoy the crap out of everybody that hates him.

    I'm sure the prison-cell-under-the-plan idea, if realistically arguing, was designed as a "broom closet" so as not to raise suspicion during the building of the complex. But then again a model of Fort Knox might raise some eye brows. Plus, if the compound were somehow being surveyed by the CIA or FBI or MI6, it would look suspicious if Bond was moved with armed guards from one building to another and didn't come out until the next morning.

    For me, I sit back, enjoy the dialogue, the charm, and the jokes. I love the golf scene, the laser scene, the gadgets on the car, and yes, even the finale. It showed us even Bond can't always do it alone. And to be fair, he was on the US turf, and Goldfinger probably would have been transferred into the hands of the CIA no matter what.

    But yes, in the end I don't enjoy watching my hero be as non-heroic as Bond is in GF, but I admire it for what it does provide: the charismatic side of Bond on full power.

    My dad just called it "the gentleman's Bond film" whatever that means.
  • TopGearJB007TopGearJB007
    Posts: 624
    Well, @shadowonthesun, if you put it that way, Craig's Bond is VERY incompetent. Craig's Bond hasn't killed a main villain in either of his films. LeChiffre was shot by White and Greene was killed by Quantum in the middle of the desert.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Sorry, but that's completely wrong.
  • TopGearJB007TopGearJB007
    Posts: 624
    How so?

    Bond wiped LeChiffre clean of his money, then gave him to the CIA who let him escape only to be shot by White.

    In QoS Bond didn't make Greene drink the oil. Greene did that himself and ended up getting shot by someone other than Bond. If I were Bond I'd have shot Greene right then and there.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Bond wiped LeChiffre clean of his money, then gave him to the CIA who let him escape only to be shot by White.
    Bond did a deal with the CIA - they staked him in the game in order to bankrupt Le Chiffre. In exchange, the CIA got Le Chiffre first. Bond was captured and was unable to fulfil his objective, but that does not make him incompetent.
    In QoS Bond didn't make Greene drink the oil. Greene did that himself and ended up getting shot by someone other than Bond. If I were Bond I'd have shot Greene right then and there.
    Bond left Greene alive in the desert for a reason: to buy time. If he had simply shot Greene, Quantum would not have wasted time and resources on finding him - they simply would have shut down every operation connected to him. Instead, he left Greene alive to force Quantum to find him to find out how extensive their security breach was. Leaving him alone in the desert with motor oil for water and no idea where civilisation lay (he was, after all, in the boot of the car, and so had no idea where he was in realtion to anything) was pretty much a death sentence anyway.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,680
    I don't think GF is as great as FRWL & even TB, but when comparing GF to its predecessors DN and FRWL, one must admit GF stepped the 'Bondian' element up a level or two (even creating new Bondian elements). A notion somewhat confirmed for SF as being a capital 'B' Bond film. It's fair to say it will be more Bondian than CR and QoS. We'll have to wait and see.

    While we're comparing films, I've always considered CR the Craig version of TB. Not because he goes to the Bahamas, but because the film is colourful and there's a lot happening. CR Craig also reminds me so much of TB's Connery. Craig's CR (and we all know it's superb) is like imagining Connery's first Bond outing was TB.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    All I know is, everyone involved in Skyfall is raving about how great the script is and Craig has even mentioned that he's more excited about Skyfall than he was for CR. GF and TSWLM are great movies but imo are overrated. I don't care much for Skyfall being some sort of representative of Craig "finally getting right" that's bs imo. I just want Skyfall to be the best movie it can be. I want the exciting adventures, beautiful locations, great dialogue, plush environments, great action, Bond to be smooth, suave and full of panache and of course a great story.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Yes I find Craig Bond, aka Hulk Bond completly 'passive' incompetent. Yes he completes his objectives, but by sheer luck and fortunate chain of events, not by his talent and competence. His erratic behaviour really puts me off the film. I find it not credible at all that Craig Bond would have been promoted to 00-status if he had shown any of his erratic behaviour at almost 40 years of age. If anything, the military would have drilled such behaviour out of him long ago, or simply booted him long before he got a chance to be 00-status. I really hope that in SF Craig will show a little more brain instead of physical strenght, and will appear much more deadly and menacing simply by sheer magnetic presence, and not by punching someone every 5 minutes.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    I was thinking about this earlier today and it hit me-- each actor's 3rd Bond film, excluding Lazenby and Dalton, obviously, seems to be their "go- to" Bond film. I don't know how else to put it. Whenever someone says Connery, Goldfinger comes to mind. With Moore, The Spy Who Loved Me. Brosnan, arguably, TWINE.

    The third film seems to represent the Bond film that becomes everyone's favorite for each actor.

    I seem to think that Craig will be able to pull it off, although Casino Royale is a hard one to beat.

    Do you understand what I'm aiming for here? What are your guys' thoughts? Will Skyfall be Craig's Goldfinger or TSWLM?

    TGJB

    I think Craig's Bond will more likely be his Thunderball.

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    I hope it won't be his Goldfinger, as I think that's one of Connery's worst, and i still don't understand why people like it. The plot is full of holes, the acting is often unbelievable. It looks like Bond has actually stumbled on a movie set but is unaware of this.

    Moreover, I think The Brozzer's best is GE, as is LALD for Moore. I think Conner's best is TB, allthough FRWL is exrtremely good as well.

    But I guess the only thing all of us can agree on when it comes to movie quality, is that OHMSS is Lazenby's best..;-)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,723
    The beauty of TB is that they made 10 minutes of flat-out underwater battle pass for a quiet scene... The final battle underwater isn't really like the car chase in QOS... It isn't very energetic, is it? Some people find the TB battle boring. IMO it's a good scene, but I admit it isn't the most exciting of action scenes.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I guess I could understand people thinking of Goldfinger (it is a little too beloved for me, but I can put that aside) and The Spy Who Loved Me (a good movie all around, with the most famous henchman in the series), but who thinks of The World is Not Enough for Brosnan? Even when it was new, nobody thought of TWINE.
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