NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Critical Reaction and Box Office Performance

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Comments

  • I used to enjoy the Bond marathons on TBS years ago, other stations not so much. Anyway, I have my own boxed set and can have my own marathons whenever I want.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Seve wrote: »
    He like so many others also misses the point by not considering that Craig Bond is Bond recontextualized for the 21st century. Like, sure, if you want to see how a Bond would behave in the 1950s, you’re never gonna get that in 2020s, unless they go period piece. Fleming Bond would have never deserted like in SKYFALL. But Craig Bond isn’t Fleming Bond. The context and attitudes of the times are much different.

    Lol, I rather doubt that many modern secret agents in the real World are behaving like Craig-Bond

    Not to suggest that Fleming Bond is entirely realistic, but I'm sure modern secret agents still believe in what they are doing in much the same way they did in the 1950s, and even get some satisfaction what they are doing, in some way that Craig-Bond seemed incapable of sustaining for a movie length of time.

    Recontextualising Bond for the 21st century doesn’t mean accurately depicting modern secret agents (if they did that the films would be crippingly boring, no Bond is really realistic), it means reflecting the public mood. People don’t trust the establishment the way they did, and Craig’s Bond reflects that nicely.

    My view on it: Most moviegoers don't care that Bond is working as a government agent -- they just want to see a story well told.

    The hand-wringing about Bond as an establishment figure appears to be coming from the filmmakers (and, of course, social media influencers looking for a hot take), who apparently have such a repulsion to his job that they constantly have him quitting, then joining, then quitting again (or dying). That's not the formula for a long-running series. I think Broccoli and co. have realized that, and I suspect NTTD is the final EON production of a Bond film.

    I'm not sure how one would "recontextualize" Bond in such a way that he's no longer working for MI6. I mean, if he's an ex-agent, then it would just be a variation on The Equalizer. I think that the next producers in charge of the Bond series should focus more on telling a great story than agonizing about the protagonist's job. People will still show up -- hell, the UK audiences will see it five times whether or not it's crap.

    Most of us on here don’t care, but having a Bond who’s too subservient and establishment might alienate younger viewers, who they’re apparently struggling with in America.

    And they already have recontextualised him pretty well imo. Bond is the same character he always is. St George spirit, motivated by his duty. But his superiors aren’t always in the right, because that’s just a reflection of how people see them in the modern world. So, sometimes he goes against them and acts independently. As I said on another thread, I don’t want Bond going all LTK/QoS every film, but I’ve got no problem with him winding M up and defying some of his orders.

    Back in the 60s the Bond archetype was the standard, but is there a single other franchise like that now? Bourne and Hunt are always going rogue. Superheroes are the big current trend, and they often operate outside the law, with police and government figures frequently being portrayed as incompetent, unhelpful or as outright villains. Rebels are what’s cool now, and I think Bond should always be cool. Being the patriotic figure he is doesn’t have to mean he always follows his government’s orders. Sometimes the most patriotic and heroic thing to do is the opposite.

    Hence “I never left”
  • Posts: 7,507
    Stricter budgets are often a good thing when it comes to Bond. Means they will prioritize story and themes over elaborate effects and cramming in as many locations as possible.
  • Posts: 6,014
    Found on Cracked today : did you know that NTTD was a remake of Superman Returns ?

    https://www.cracked.com/article_31560_no-time-to-die-feels-like-a-15-year-old-superhero-movie.html

    I must say that the eveidence is quite convincing.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    CR costed $150 million and it's still the best of the bunch.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 3,566
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    I think Broccoli and co. have realized that, and I suspect NTTD is the final EON production of a Bond film.

    If you really think that, I suspect I have a bridge you may want to buy.

    People's opinions to the relative "success" or "failure" of this film have been a bit surprising to me. In the past, when EON put out a Bond film I didn't care much for --most recently, with Spectre-- I didn't root for it to fail miserably at the box office. I just hoped that the next one would be more to my liking. This time around, things are indeed in an "Everything or Nothing" mode. Many folks who didn't like the ending to NTTD, want to see nothing more from the heirs of Cubby Broccoli. I can't say that I have a great deal of sympathy for that position.

    I do indeed believe that Eon Productions will be casting a new fellow in the role of 007, and coming out with Bond 26 just a few years down the road. How exactly they're going to grapple with the issue of continuity I have no idea and I don't care to waste much time on the topic unless Michael G and Barbara B start offering me enormous sums of money to do so. (Scant chance of that!) But I do think the days of $300 million + production budgets are in things of the past and rightly so. James Bond will return, and I plan on being in the theater when he does. I trust the vast majority of you will join me.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 628
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    I think Broccoli and co. have realized that, and I suspect NTTD is the final EON production of a Bond film.

    If you really think that, I suspect I have a bridge you may want to buy.

    People's opinions to the relative "success" or "failure" of this film have been a bit surprising to me. In the past, when EON put out a Bond film I didn't care much for --most recently, with Spectre-- I didn't root for it to fail miserably at the box office. I just hoped that the next one would be more to my liking. This time around, things are indeed in an "Everything or Nothing" mode. Many folks who didn't like the ending to NTTD, want to see nothing more from the heirs of Cubby Broccoli. I can't say that I have a great deal of sympathy for that position.

    Please point me to the section of my post, or any of my posts, where I'm rooting for the movie to fail at the box office. Or even that I didn't like the ending. Go ahead.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 439
    Seve wrote: »
    He like so many others also misses the point by not considering that Craig Bond is Bond recontextualized for the 21st century. Like, sure, if you want to see how a Bond would behave in the 1950s, you’re never gonna get that in 2020s, unless they go period piece. Fleming Bond would have never deserted like in SKYFALL. But Craig Bond isn’t Fleming Bond. The context and attitudes of the times are much different.

    Lol, I rather doubt that many modern secret agents in the real World are behaving like Craig-Bond

    Not to suggest that Fleming Bond is entirely realistic, but I'm sure modern secret agents still believe in what they are doing in much the same way they did in the 1950s, and even get some satisfaction what they are doing, in some way that Craig-Bond seemed incapable of sustaining for a movie length of time.

    Recontextualising Bond for the 21st century doesn’t mean accurately depicting modern secret agents (if they did that the films would be crippingly boring, no Bond is really realistic), it means reflecting the public mood. People don’t trust the establishment the way they did, and Craig’s Bond reflects that nicely.

    It goes without saying that we are not talking about the technical and operational details of being a secret agent, they are as mundane and boring in the 21st Century as they were in the 1950s.

    But whether or not the public trusts the establishment, surely secret agents must still believe in what they are doing and trust their employers in order to function effectively?

    On that most basic level at least Bond should conform?

    The idea that the World's secret agents are all out there either resigning, going rogue, being betrayed and going AWOL, or retiring during every mission is stretching things too far in my opinion.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Bond films are not documentaries of the current situation in the real world of espionage.
    I'm not concerned about Bond 26 following trends or setting trends or taking things too far compared to fiction or real life.

    I think I would only be upset if they went back to pure 70s camp Moore style films (and I do love me some Moore Bond movies). Or they they made the next one a Casino Royale reboot. No need to touch that story for more than a decade from now. Just my feelings on that.
  • Escalus5 wrote: »
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    I think Broccoli and co. have realized that, and I suspect NTTD is the final EON production of a Bond film.

    If you really think that, I suspect I have a bridge you may want to buy.

    People's opinions to the relative "success" or "failure" of this film have been a bit surprising to me. In the past, when EON put out a Bond film I didn't care much for --most recently, with Spectre-- I didn't root for it to fail miserably at the box office. I just hoped that the next one would be more to my liking. This time around, things are indeed in an "Everything or Nothing" mode. Many folks who didn't like the ending to NTTD, want to see nothing more from the heirs of Cubby Broccoli. I can't say that I have a great deal of sympathy for that position.

    Please point me to the section of my post, or any of my posts, where I'm rooting for the movie to fail at the box office. Or even that I didn't like the ending. Go ahead.

    Please point me to the section of my post where I'm accusing you, specifically, of ANYthing.
  • Posts: 1,092
    My prediction for final global total is between 650-700. Competition is coming, hard and heavy, and it will struggle when the squeeze for theater space comes into play.
  • FlemingBondFlemingBond Arizona, United States
    Posts: 3
    i'd be interested for those in europe: what is the makeup of a Bond audience there? Here in the U.S. it's almost an entirely middle aged audience.
  • Posts: 7,507
    i'd be interested for those in europe: what is the makeup of a Bond audience there? Here in the U.S. it's almost an entirely middle aged audience.

    I have seen the film four times noew. I have not seen many kids or teenagers, but my experience in general is that there are people of all ages present.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,861
    jobo wrote: »
    i'd be interested for those in europe: what is the makeup of a Bond audience there? Here in the U.S. it's almost an entirely middle aged audience.

    I have seen the film four times noew. I have not seen many kids or teenagers, but my experience in general is that there are people of all ages present.

    FYI: From Bill Koenig’s Blog (posted 10/17/2021):
    In the U.S., there are indications that No Time to Die drew an older audience. Matthew Beloni of Puck News, a former Hollywood Reporter editor, wrote the following in a newsletter last week:

    Have you seen those exit numbers on No Time to Die? Just 20 percent of opening weekend audience was under 25, compared to 41 percent for Spectre in 2015. Yikes. This franchise will grow old and die unless young people are given a reason to care.


  • FlemingBondFlemingBond Arizona, United States
    Posts: 3
    it's been older here for years. Even the Brosnan films . I think the last teenagers i saw in a Bond film was Casino Royale. Never children.
  • Posts: 355
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    I'd say that the best case scenario for Bond would be hitting the $700 million mark.

    And it needs approximately $900 million just to break even.

    Yeesh.

    Unless worldwide attendance goes back to 2019 level Hollywood can't sustain itself on high budget films. The revenue isn't there so my guess is the collapse of cinema is imminent. Well it's already here. Coronavirus has killed off profit.

    Bond 26 looks certain to be straight to streaming? I guess so. I see no financial reason why Amazon will greenlight Bond 26 if it is financially impossible for the film to make profit at the box office.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 7,507
    Judging by the Norwegian audiences I have witnessed, there are many people in their twenties present.
    it's been older here for years. Even the Brosnan films . I think the last teenagers i saw in a Bond film was Casino Royale. Never children.

    I saw some children today. They didn't seem happy though... 😅
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 355
    You could argue Hollywood itself is to blame for its greed or having zero control. The idea any film should cost around 400 million dollars is insane. Eon and MGM must have lost their minds. It puts ridiculous pressure on the film to over perform at the box office. As awful as coronavirus has been (lockdowns and deaths), it will force change in Hollywood. The studios will have to stop greenlighting films with absurdly high production and marketing costs or just accept the inevitable and switch to streaming. I've read articles online that state Netflix and Spotify are in huge debt so I've no idea if they make tangible profit but they remain operational so streaming platforms appear to be viable.

    I think 2021 will be the most significant chapter in the history of film since the invention of sound and colour. I reckon it is the beginning or the middle of the end of big budget theatrical releases because coronavirus has wiped out around 50 percent or more of attendance and profit.

    Eon can say "Amazon have assured us Bond will remain a theatrical-only release" but that pledge (which may not be a contractual stipulation) will be meaningless if NTTD is 400 - 500 million dollars short of breaking even. Amazon will be crazy to release Bond 26 in cinemas if the overall box office remains at a 50 percent or so deficit. Imho Bond 26 will never get a theatrical release because the profit margin is unobtainable.

    I think the film industry is in denial. All the films are loss makers at the box office. Only one film this year has crossed 500 million. It's catastrophic for the studios. They'll never admit it of course. Likewise, Eon will never admit releasing NTTD in September/October was a huge mistake but we all know the box office (worldwide, not in the UK which has been very impressive) was never going to get to 900 million. F9 failed to get there. My guess the only film to have a chance to break 800 will be Spider-man No Way Home but who knows if it will?

    Every Bond fan will have to pray box office attendance goes back to 2019 type numbers otherwise there will never be another Bond film released in the cinemas. Amazon are not going to cut the budget (say around 100 million) to justify a theatrical release if they believe a 250 million streaming release is a better option.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited October 2021 Posts: 439
    Most of us on here don’t care, but having a Bond who’s too subservient and establishment might alienate younger viewers, who they’re apparently struggling with in America.

    And they already have recontextualised him pretty well imo. Bond is the same character he always is. St George spirit, motivated by his duty. But his superiors aren’t always in the right, because that’s just a reflection of how people see them in the modern world. So, sometimes he goes against them and acts independently. As I said on another thread, I don’t want Bond going all LTK/QoS every film, but I’ve got no problem with him winding M up and defying some of his orders.

    Back in the 60s the Bond archetype was the standard, but is there a single other franchise like that now? Bourne and Hunt are always going rogue. Superheroes are the big current trend, and they often operate outside the law, with police and government figures frequently being portrayed as incompetent, unhelpful or as outright villains. Rebels are what’s cool now, and I think Bond should always be cool. Being the patriotic figure he is doesn’t have to mean he always follows his government’s orders. Sometimes the most patriotic and heroic thing to do is the opposite.

    I don't think anyone viewed Connery-Bond or Moore-Bond as "too subservient"

    But this trend has been going on since the Vietnam war divided the US, although it took a decade or two longer to filter into the World of James Bond, with the arrival of Dalton-Bond

    So after over half a century of "the rebel rules" surely it should be becoming passe by now?

    Bourne never "goes rogue", since he appeared on screen he's always rogue, it's his whole raison d'être

    Mission Impossible often like to have their "rogue cake" and eat it to, by having rival good and bad US government agencies in the same story.

    Superhero's are by their nature outsiders, but Marvel even decided to turn Captain America, of all people, into a rebel, and loose cannon playboy Tony Stark, of all people, into the establishment figure (IMO the Ironman I enjoyed was dead long before "End Game")

    There have always been cool rebels as part of the landscape, but they used to be balanced out by more orthodox figures who could also be cool

    Not anymore
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    There’s a moment I like with Captain America when referring to find himself out of time.

    “When I woke up from the ice, they told me we won the war. They didn’t tell me what we lost.”
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Someone mentioned the next Bond film going straight to streaming? That makes me gag. And I don't think that will happen.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    Bond 26 will be released in the cinema ... on a budget no larger than 200 million. If they go higher I assume it will be somewhat cross-financed and when going to streaming on their platform it offers some additional value that would justify a potential loss at the BO.

    About the audience: Most of the attendees I saw in my 2 viewings were in their 30s to their 50s. Some younger, yes - but not many clearly 60+.
  • Well one thing for sure about Bond 26...no Craig, so if the star is a relative newcomer, no big payday. That saves you about 20 mill right there....
  • Posts: 3,327
    Well one thing for sure about Bond 26...no Craig, so if the star is a relative newcomer, no big payday. That saves you about 20 mill right there....

    This is why I think the next actor will be a relative unknown. Forget your Tom Hardy's or Henry Cavil's.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Dwayne wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    i'd be interested for those in europe: what is the makeup of a Bond audience there? Here in the U.S. it's almost an entirely middle aged audience.

    I have seen the film four times noew. I have not seen many kids or teenagers, but my experience in general is that there are people of all ages present.

    FYI: From Bill Koenig’s Blog (posted 10/17/2021):
    In the U.S., there are indications that No Time to Die drew an older audience. Matthew Beloni of Puck News, a former Hollywood Reporter editor, wrote the following in a newsletter last week:

    Have you seen those exit numbers on No Time to Die? Just 20 percent of opening weekend audience was under 25, compared to 41 percent for Spectre in 2015. Yikes. This franchise will grow old and die unless young people are given a reason to care.


    Younger audiences chose Venom instead of Bond, which is not surprising.
  • Give me a critically acclaimed Bond film anyway over pure box office statistics. In that regard NTTD is a total success. If Bond ever does to streaming only I will stop watching. BB has said that will never happen which is good.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    Back when I was nervous of COVID I was happy for them to go the streaming route but I'm really glad they held off and put it on the big screen. It was completely deserved.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 3,333
    Well one thing for sure about Bond 26...no Craig, so if the star is a relative newcomer, no big payday. That saves you about 20 mill right there....

    This is why I think the next actor will be a relative unknown. Forget your Tom Hardy's or Henry Cavill's.
    100% agreed @jetsetwilly. The next Bond actor will be a relative unknown for the reasons stated above.

    On a side note, I think some here have lost all sense of proportion when critiquing NTTD. It's not a crime to point out the movie's shortcomings, nor does it indicate a desire to see the movie fail at the BO. I for one, don't want to see any Bond movie fail at the BO, not even when it was DAD. Giving sharply defined feedback is positive, even if you don't believe everything about the movie was first-rate.
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    edited October 2021 Posts: 541
    Spectre was the 6th biggest box office film of 2015. NTTD is currently 6th of 2021 (and growing).

    It's not so much that NTTD underperformed. Moreso that the entire film industry in 2021 is underperforming because of the pandemic.
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