NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Critical Reaction and Box Office Performance

11112141617172

Comments

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    Minion wrote: »
    People were very disappointed with SPECTREs boxoffocie results back in 2015, yet now it seems like expectations are even lower for Bond. If they want to pull over 750 then they NEED to least release a poster with title very soon. It's already overdue.

    @Mendes4Lyfe graces us with his ill-informed pessimism once again, before skipping away without even the dignity of a response. He’ll be back in a week to once again dispense his vitriol.

    Bond 25 is still over 8 months away, I doubt anyone in the general audience care about the film's poster and/or title as of July 22, 2019. Hell, is anyone on MI6Community going to boycott the film if they don't release a poster before August? Or even before September? Pretty sure @Mendes4Lyfe is just eagerly awaiting for new Bond 25 material so he can twist into more doomsday announcements. No poster? The film is doomed! A poster is released? It's so terrible the film will flop anyway!

    Well, @DaltonCraig007, this is what he posted in June of last year:
    Let's make no qualms, Bond 25 is a Box office disaster waiting to happen, and just leave it at that. The good news is that they will likely rein in the budget considerably compared to Bond 24, so damage limitation should kick in somewhat.

    I don't think Bond will be back on top until they get a new lead actor in the role of 007, personally.

    Pretty much explains it all, doesn't it? He just wants the hobbit to play Bond.
  • edited August 2019 Posts: 4,409
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    OMvkeTa.jpg

    Marvel have released their upcoming slate at Comic Con.

    Rachel is in Black Widow, which will likely run into the tail end of the B25 box office.


    Somewhat anxious by Black Widow arriving two weeks after Bond.

    It's Marvel big summer flagship film and their May releases have a tendency to gross north of $1billion. There is also a concern that the films could be similar in content.

    The biggest concern is China. The middle kingdom love Marvel and Bond will be a fairly unproven entity. If Black Widow and Bond 25 open close together, Black Widow could swamp it. But I think Bond has the advantage in Europe. However, Black Widow will eat massively into Bond 25's North American gross.

    Perhaps, Rachel has spilled the secrets to Eon.....
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    .
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    People were very disappointed with SPECTREs boxoffocie results back in 2015, yet now it seems like expectations are even lower for Bond. If they want to pull over 750 then they NEED to least release a poster with title very soon. It's already overdue.

    @Mendes4Lyfe graces us with his ill-informed pessimism once again, before skipping away without even the dignity of a response. He’ll be back in a week to once again dispense his vitriol.

    Bond 25 is still over 8 months away, I doubt anyone in the general audience care about the film's poster and/or title as of July 22, 2019. Hell, is anyone on MI6Community going to boycott the film if they don't release a poster before August? Or even before September? Pretty sure @Mendes4Lyfe is just eagerly awaiting for new Bond 25 material so he can twist into more doomsday announcements. No poster? The film is doomed! A poster is released? It's so terrible the film will flop anyway!

    Well, @DaltonCraig007, this is what he posted in June of last year:
    Let's make no qualms, Bond 25 is a Box office disaster waiting to happen, and just leave it at that. The good news is that they will likely rein in the budget considerably compared to Bond 24, so damage limitation should kick in somewhat.

    I don't think Bond will be back on top until they get a new lead actor in the role of 007, personally.

    Pretty much explains it all, doesn't it? He just wants the hobbit to play Bond.

    He's a passive aggressive gas lighter if I've ever seen one, there used to be another one but he stopped posting here a while back.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited August 2019 Posts: 5,185
    Let's make no qualms, Bond 25 is a Box office disaster waiting to happen, and just leave it at that. The good news is that they will likely rein in the budget considerably compared to Bond 24, so damage limitation should kick in somewhat.

    Are these the same analysts who said that GoldenEye couldn't exist? Who said the helicopter posed no threat and wasn't worth following?

    Bond is CONSTANTLY in the news. I'm not sure i've ever seen something like this before in regards to Bond. Everyone in my office is talking about the new Bond being a woman, those are not Bond fans. It's ridiculous. The film doesn't even need marketing at this point, because it's such a hot topic, most movie productions could only dream about that level of attention. Whether that will translate into Box office though remains everyones guess. I think the movie could make Spectre numbers, but if it's really good it will get close to Skyfall. I think EoN is throwing everything and the kitchen sink at the screen to make sure it is.

    I remember growing up in the Brosnan era, one thing i loved about a new Bond film being released was that EVERYBODY was jumping on the bandwagon and was trying to get a piece of the Profit. Every local supermarket had some Bond related products in their windows, sporting goods stores were selling 007 branded stuff, i was seeing Bond related advertising everywhere, plus of course non stop TV specials about the new and old movies. So i always kept thinking these films basically market themselves, no need to waste any money.

    I haven't payed as much attention to all that in the Craig era but i hope it will be similar with B25.
  • Posts: 7,507
    If there is one thing I am not concerned about at all regarding Bond 25, it is publicity! That has never been a problem. There will be countless of news articles, chat shows, discussions about the film on TV and social media. Daniel Craig will show up in another customary Heineken commercial on a train somewhere that will be everywhere on TV next spring, there will be countless appearances on the biggest talk shows in the US, UK and world wide. I suppose Naomi Harris will once again have to shave a balloon on the Graham Norton Show... Promoting Bond is the easiest thing in the world! Why even bother to try to spin this into a problem?
  • Posts: 698
    The most important thing Bond 25 has to do right regarding box office is getting good word of mouth. Arguably that's what let Spectre down towards the back end of its run. There isn't really many movies out between B25 and Black Widow. With a strong opening and good word of mouth I think B25 will do just fine. Besides, given where Black Widow stands currently in the MCU, I think a few people will be skeptical to go to her solo movie.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    You can see the downward trend already between Skyfall and SPECTRE. I would be amazed and stunned if Bond 25 crept over 800 million worldwide. And I'm not saying that many fans won't find the film satisfying and what they were hoping for, I'm merely commenting on the global prospects of the movie. Pierce2Daniel is correct that Bond 25 looks like it could easily get swamped by the tidal wave of summer movies that hit in the weeks after its release. And, just as an aside, I don't think the female 007 "publicity" is really do the film any favours.
  • Posts: 7,507
    You can see the downward trend already between Skyfall and SPECTRE. I would be amazed and stunned if Bond 25 crept over 800 million worldwide. And I'm not saying that many fans won't find the film satisfying and what they were hoping for, I'm merely commenting on the global prospects of the movie. Pierce2Daniel is correct that Bond 25 looks like it could easily get swamped by the tidal wave of summer movies that hit in the weeks after its release. And, just as an aside, I don't think the female 007 "publicity" is really do the film any favours.

    You appear with the tedius inevitability of an unloved season.
  • Posts: 7,507
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    The most important thing Bond 25 has to do right regarding box office is getting good word of mouth. Arguably that's what let Spectre down towards the back end of its run. There isn't really many movies out between B25 and Black Widow. With a strong opening and good word of mouth I think B25 will do just fine. Besides, given where Black Widow stands currently in the MCU, I think a few people will be skeptical to go to her solo movie.

    Exactly. What matters at the end of the day is the quality of the film, or at the very least, the quality of the reviews. (Stating the obvious, duh...) If the film is good it will be a BO succes regardless of competition. If it isn't, it will probably still make decent profit, but the return will be more dependent on other factors. If the film is crap... well, then the factors of competition will be a concern. It is not really more complicated or dramatic than that, and honestly all this back and forth discussion seems rather tedius and pointless.

    And as I have argued many times before, Box Office should not really be a massive concern for Bond fans. The only negative effect a box office flop would have is that the next film budget might be smaller. But through out the franchise's history there has never been a proportion between budget size and the actual quality of the film. On the contrary EON seems to work better when they have a point to prove and can't simply rely on splashing money at the screen.
  • Posts: 1,680
    I think febuarary release would bring in more revenue
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,790
    You can see the downward trend already between Skyfall and SPECTRE.
    Yeah like from Casino Royale to Quantum of Solace.

    Then Skyfall.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited August 2019 Posts: 8,395
    You can see the downward trend already between Skyfall and SPECTRE.
    Yeah like from Casino Royale to Quantum of Solace.

    Then Skyfall.

    The difference between Casino and Quantum is a few million. Not a few hundred million.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,790
    Both my statements are sarcasm, challenging what you called a downward trend.
  • Posts: 4,044
    But Skyfall set a much higher benchmark than CR did. Plus plotting a trend from only two points gives an unreliable statistical indicator.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    CR and QOS made more or less the same. SF and SP made several hundred million dollars more than those two. SP made less than SF, but
    You can see the downward trend already between Skyfall and SPECTRE.

    is absolute nonsense. A downward "trend" can be seen no sooner than if B25 made less than SP. Spotting a trend after one film is like spotting a linear trend when only two values are available on the entire graph.

    DAF made more money than OHMSS. LALD made more money than DAF. TMWTGG made less money than LALD. TSWLM made more money than TMWTGG and LALD. MR made even money than TSWLM. So, would it have been fair in 1974 to talk about a "downward trend" after evaluating TMWTGG's results? Negative.

    One case doesn't show a trend.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    You can see the downward trend already between Skyfall and SPECTRE. I would be amazed and stunned if Bond 25 crept over 800 million worldwide. And I'm not saying that many fans won't find the film satisfying and what they were hoping for, I'm merely commenting on the global prospects of the movie. Pierce2Daniel is correct that Bond 25 looks like it could easily get swamped by the tidal wave of summer movies that hit in the weeks after its release. And, just as an aside, I don't think the female 007 "publicity" is really do the film any favours.
    We're going to have such a laugh about this in eight months time.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,571
    QBranch wrote: »
    $1.007 billion worldwide.
    Forgot to add my own contribution to this.

    $1.007000020 bn.
  • Posts: 12,526
    I am no expert when it comes to Marvel? But those slate of movies as a whole does not look as strong as what has gone before? Maybe it is just a character thing but will be interesting to see what happens now moving forward?
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    I am no expert when it comes to Marvel? But those slate of movies as a whole does not look as strong as what has gone before? Maybe it is just a character thing but will be interesting to see what happens now moving forward?
    It's worth noting Marvel doesn't always hit a chord with the box office. Captain Marvel had Avengers Endgame hype on its side, but Antman and the Wasp really struggled.
  • Posts: 698
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    I am no expert when it comes to Marvel? But those slate of movies as a whole does not look as strong as what has gone before? Maybe it is just a character thing but will be interesting to see what happens now moving forward?
    I think Marvel are starting to move on from there typically known A-list heroes and are starting to take more risks with their projects. That and they are making a bit of a push towards tv shows.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Minion wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    I am no expert when it comes to Marvel? But those slate of movies as a whole does not look as strong as what has gone before? Maybe it is just a character thing but will be interesting to see what happens now moving forward?
    It's worth noting Marvel doesn't always hit a chord with the box office. Captain Marvel had Avengers Endgame hype on its side, but Antman and the Wasp really struggled.

    Funny thing is I really enjoyed the 2 Antman movies.
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    I am no expert when it comes to Marvel? But those slate of movies as a whole does not look as strong as what has gone before? Maybe it is just a character thing but will be interesting to see what happens now moving forward?
    I think Marvel are starting to move on from there typically known A-list heroes and are starting to take more risks with their projects. That and they are making a bit of a push towards tv shows.

    I think so too due what you have put above?
  • Posts: 4,409
    The title reveal generated a lot of heat online - it was somewhat muted by the Sony/Marvel divorce - but it was trending no.1 in the UK and has caused head simply over a 30 second video.

    It's unusual that they didn't save the title reveal for the teaser. However, this does beg the question of how 'No Time to Die' will perform at the box office.

    A good comparator I think is 'Mission Impossible: Fallout'. That film broke out with:

    Domestic: $220,159,104
    Foreign: $570,956,000

    'No Time to Die' will easily match and beat those foreign numbers. However, I'll be curious to see if 'No Way to Die' will meet those domestic numbers. Currently, the latest 'Fast & Furious' film (albeit a spin-off, but one staring Dwayne Johnson) has grossed $137,192,890 and likely won't till the double century mark.

    Sadly, we live in world where comic-book property IP leads the way. I suspect 'No Time to Die' will get hit fairly hard by 'Black Widow'.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    Sadly, we live in world where comic-book property IP leads the way. I suspect 'No Time to Die' will get hit fairly hard by 'Black Widow'.

    Don't give up hope just yet. This age of superhero movies is due a slump and it's due one soon. After Endgame knocked Avatar off the top spot, the only way is down.

    Think about it. There are at least three Marvel movies a year nowadays. Yeah OK they're very successful but the novelty wore off years ago.

    There won't have been a Bond movie in FIVE years when the NTTD comes out. With audiences wanting something a bit different - I wouldn't count it out just yet.
  • Posts: 4,409
    BondStu wrote: »
    Sadly, we live in world where comic-book property IP leads the way. I suspect 'No Time to Die' will get hit fairly hard by 'Black Widow'.

    Don't give up hope just yet. This age of superhero movies is due a slump and it's due one soon. After Endgame knocked Avatar off the top spot, the only way is down.

    Think about it. There are at least three Marvel movies a year nowadays. Yeah OK they're very successful but the novelty wore off years ago.

    There won't have been a Bond movie in FIVE years when the NTTD comes out. With audiences wanting something a bit different - I wouldn't count it out just yet.

    Isn't that the problem though?

    Marvel are riding the biggest wave they have had yet with Endgame (their success story keeps surpassing even their greatest achievements). In that respect, the hype to see Black Widow and the next phase of her journey is guaranteed to excite audiences. There is even a hint that whilst the story is a prequel, some of it may take place post-Endgame.

    Bond has been away from screens for 5 years. Daniel Craig was once the young, edgy 007. Now there has been a generation of audiences who have grown up with Marvel who have only known Craig as 007 and associate him as Bond. There's a sense that the franchise is going stale again.

    The way to ensure this sentiment dies out is to produce a great movie that gets people talking. I know some female hate the female 007 story - but we all know in our hearts that its just a marketing ploy to generate buzz and interest. Craig is still 007 and the move is an attempt is make the franchise 'relevant' and show it being self-aware. The same can be said of the hiring of PWB.

    They have ace with Rami Malek, who will passionately sell this film. I haven't seen someone pimp themselves quite so diligently throughout Oscar season like him.

    Plus, Lashana and Ana De Armas compliment each other perfectly. One selling the old-school sexy Bond girl image and the other the modern progressive Bond girl. Eon are having their cake and eating it there.

    Also, they'll need a big commercial singer on the theme duties. Dua Lipa or Ed Sheeran have the British advantage. But stars such as Beyonce and Arianna Grande would bite Eon's hand off for the job. Don't expect a Radiohead type group.

    But fundamentally what could distinguish the film in the current blockbuster marketplace is the 'prestige' value. Granted NTTD had more cache in this respect when Danny Boyle was to direct, but CJF is still an A-list helmer - even without an Oscar nomination. So if this film can be in the same quality bracket as Skyfall - or even Logan or Black Panther - and be talked about all spring/summer 2020, then it'll be in a very good place.

    NTTD's success isn't guaranteed. But there is a very good chance the film is a hit.
  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    Posts: 431
    As per @DarthDimi ..... thanks for closing that topic :-).

    Return-On-Investment: financial profits of "No Time To Die" and future Bond-films

    As you know, in the past I have started some topics about possible box office predictions, and how 'delirious' I used to be about possible 1 Billion Dollar grosses and how 'extraordinary' that was. "Skyfall" passed the $ 1.1 Billion threshold, and "SPECTRE" almost grabbed $ 900 Million.

    However, Hollywood has changed considerably in the recent 4 years. Mostly because Disney (Lucasfilm, Marvel, 21st Century Fox) has been eating up competitors like chocolate, so that it's now a true superstrong entertainment-monopolist, perhaps only feeling some competitive winds from Comcast (which owns Universal). Box office grosses have been broken consistently in those past years, so that $ 1.5 Billion or even $ 2 Billion becomes a new threshold in blockbuster-land to be reckoned with.

    But I do not wish to focus on that. Recently I did some (simple) research and really asked myself: How profitable are all these blockbuster franchise-films? And especially how profitable are Bond-films these days? As you know, 'profit' is very different from 'turnover' or 'sales'. Therefore I dug up some information about the real profits of the (recent) Bond-films, or the so called 'Return-On-Investment'-ratio (ROI).

    So every now and then I am writing a guest article for Bill Koenig's wonderful SpyCommand blog. I have to thank him for that! This time around I focused on the ROI, and I wrote this: https://spycommandfeatures.wordpress.com/bond-confronting-changing-media/. I am very curious what you fellow fans think about it, and what you think could or should be a realistic ROI-figure (in percentage points) for the new Bond-film "No Time To Die" and future Bond-films.

    Down below you will find some recent ROI-scores. One infograph I made compares all the Bond-films with each other, the other ROI-infograph compares "SPECTRE" with the most recent action-blockbusters. I hope this interests you. And it would be nice to also have a pragmatic discussion about the financial health of the Bond-franchise, now and in the long-term future. Because really, box office talk is only one aspect of it.
    YqFKpbq.png
    FVnm7hx.jpg
    TWtKuFH.png
  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    edited September 2019 Posts: 431
    NTTD's success isn't guaranteed. But there is a very good chance the film is a hit.

    It really depends what your benchmark, your main discussion point is in this discussion. If the Bond producers are not more 'hand on', more fierce with regard to profits, then "NTTD" will have a similar lacklustre ROI as "SP". Therefore it's especially interesting how powerful the role of Universal has become in this new EON-MGM-UnitedArtists-Universal-construction. Because Universal has only signed a contract for ONE Bond-film. Comcast is way bigger than Sony; they want to prevent the uttermost failure Sony had placed themselves in when they bowed to EON and basically lost money on SP.

    An ROI of at least 400% is not only Universal's wish. Be sure they slammed their fists on the table with EON and MGM. I therefore wouldn't be surprised that sole production costs of NTTD will be limited to $200 Million. And all other marketing and distribution investments should not be more than $100 Million. If then the film brings in $999 Million, then Universal might sign a new distribution deal with EON/MGM for more non-Craig Bond films.

    And then there's this United Artists nonsense. MGM might as well look into making United Artists a global thing under the lifeline of billionaire daddy Ellison. To be honest, in current blockbuster-climate the management of the Bond-franchise looks more like that bonkers 1967 "Casino Royale" spoof (= not good at all).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I always suspected the one-film deal may have to do with making way for a deal with WB becoming the next partner in order to get Nolan to direct/produce.
  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    edited September 2019 Posts: 431
    I always suspected the one-film deal may have to do with making way for a deal with WB becoming the next partner in order to get Nolan to direct/produce.

    Nothing, but relly nothing is certain after NTTD. No one really knows.

    The 1-picture deal Universal has with MGM/EON works both ways.

    One option could be that both EON and MGM try to lure billionaire Larry Ellison to invest even more in the failed Annapurna Pictures and therefore into the newly revived US distributor company United Artists Releasing. For NTTD United Artists is only doing marketing and distribution in the USA (and Canada). Perhaps MGM and EON want United Artists to become bigger so that with the next Bond-film, Bond 26, they can do the full global distribution programme.

    Another option is that Comcast/Universal Pictures simply don't want to have a multi-picture with MGM/EON. Obviously Universal has seen how deadly wrong a similar distribution deal went with Sony. Sony barely got profits from the whole Bond thing. For SP even less than $100 Million. In Blockbusterland that's a big fat no-go these days. So Universal might be in a much stronger driver's seat this time if the Bond producers quickly want to move forward with the franchise and prefer Universal over United Artists doing all distribution.

    But in the end it's the ROI stupid. In the end it's all about profits. And even for Barbara and Michael it seems they don't care. They can milk out the franchise with Danjaq Inc. and their sponsorship business. Barbara and Michael are billionaires. The big question mark however is: For how long can they do that? The longer the breaks between Bond-films, the more the brand Bond becomes a peculiar nothingness in our collective consciousness.

    Nolan and WB coming aboard? Haha, I don't believe that nonsense. Blockbusterland land is changing. It used to be very much an affair like "We need Bond". That's over. Most big movie monopolists -Disney, ViacomCBS, Comcast, WB- made it the other way around: "Bond needs us….and frankly, we don't need Bond".

    Make no mistake, I'm looking very much forward to the new Bond-film. I'm a little kid again!! Can't wait. But financially the Bond-franchise is in a way more dire position than many people realize. It hurts me to be honest. And although we can't look into the future, it would be wise if Barbara & Michael look more to Cubby's original vision and less to Harry's anthics. So my ultimate wish would be that the EON sells their part to a big player like Universal Pictures. But I'm not sure. Barbara and Michael are too powerful financially, while at the same time they don't treat the franchise with a hand-on-mentality like their (step)father. They do Bond because they can, not because they care as much as Kevin Feige care's for Marvel.

    On the plus side...….if Nomi gets the 007-number for a short period in NTTD, then there could very well be a future spin-off series. That could generate some extra profits.
  • Posts: 7,507
    (:| Are you guys seriously still going on with this utterly pointless, tedius and speculative discussion?
  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    Posts: 431
    jobo wrote: »
    (:| Are you guys seriously still going on with this utterly pointless, tedius and speculative discussion?

    There's nothing speculative about micro-economics, nor is there something speculative about the economics in films. Same with simple definitions like 'return-on-investment' and 'profits'. And to be honest, is a forum not existing on the very notion of, as you call it, speculation? Anyway, I find the finances of the Bond-franchise simply an interesting thing.
Sign In or Register to comment.