NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Critical Reaction and Box Office Performance

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Comments

  • Posts: 564
    bondsum wrote: »
    I've just skimmed back through a few pages and I was surprised not to see this mentioned within any of the comments in reference to NTTD needing to make $900 million to break even. According to Companies House in the U.K No Time To Die once came in budgeted at 199.5 million pounds, but due to interest charges that increased to 214 million pounds. Now, a year later, that figure has increased to 226 million pounds or $314 million for those of you keeping track in the U.S. Once marketing costs are factored in, the amount jumps to $464 million at the lower end. The $900 million global goal comes into play due to the split between the cinematic exhibitor and the film’s distributors, with MGM expecting to take around 50 percent on every dollar spent on tickets worldwide. According to JoBlo, this would mean that the movie would need to make at least $928 million worldwide to put some smiles on some people’s faces and we don’t even get to cheers until it hits the $1 billion threshold.

    Now, I think this movie is going to have a very good opening weekend and will probably do very well overall. I think a lot of people are going to turn out for Daniel Craig's last Bond outing. But whether it's going to get anywhere close to $900 million, I'm less confident about. I think it might hit $600 to $700 million at a stretch, but that's still going to be $200 plus shy of breaking even.

    If you want to read the article in full and where I've pulled some of the quotes from, you can click on the link below...

    https://joblo.com/no-time-to-die-box-office/

    No way it hits $926MM, but basically all these tentpoles are going to lose money and I doubt it will adversely impact them going forward.
  • Posts: 380
    antovolk wrote: »

    To quote M in NTTD: "C'mon, Bond."
  • Posts: 564
    antovolk wrote: »

    "James Bond Fever" is kind of funny given the circumstances of the delays!
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Let’s go UK!
  • edited September 2021 Posts: 3,333
    I'm pretty sure there's all kinds of product placement and promo money not being accounted for here.
    I'm sure the product placements were factored into the break even costs. There was also something written about the companies that had heavily invested in their product placements wanting a discount due to their products now being seen as somewhat out-of-date by the movie's belated release date. I don't know if new inserts were shot to remedy this? Nevertheless, there were early reports of the 7-month delay costing MGM upwards of $50 million. We do know that by this time last year, MGM had already spent $66 million in marketing costs to then have to mothball the entire movie until later this year. This sum doesn't include the last release date and marketing costs that were also shelved.

    As I said previously, I think this movie is going to do well. I just don't see it repeating SF numbers.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited September 2021 Posts: 1,711
    bondsum wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure there's all kinds of product placement and promo money not being accounted for here.
    I'm sure the product placements were factored into the break even costs. There was also something written about the companies that had heavily invested in their product placements wanting a discount due to their products now being seen as somewhat out-of-date by the movie's belated release date. I don't know if new inserts were shot to remedy this? Nevertheless, there were early reports of the 7-month delay costing MGM upwards of $50 million. We do know that by this time last year, MGM had already spent $66 million in marketing costs to then have to mothball the entire movie until later this year. This sum doesn't include the last release date and marketing costs that were also shelved.

    As I said previously, I think this movie is going to do well. I just don't see it repeating SF numbers.

    No, the product placement numbers are way too opaque for them to have been factored into an artificially specific number like $928 million. For Skyfall, there are conflicting reports ranging from 20-40 million pounds paid by Heineken, plus even more spent on Heineken ads that conveniently marketed the film. Nobody really knows. And that's just one deal. And all of these articles are based on a piece of pure speculation created by MI6 HQ.

    This JoBlo article mistakenly attributes the break-even number to Companies House. And that level of journalistic sloppiness goes all the way down the chain back to the article from MI6 HQ, who later made incorrect claims about cinema rules in at least one country (which is to say they were wrong about the only country I am certain about, and they're almost certainly wrong about others).

    Now, as I said before, they don't discuss the huge sums paid by tourist boards, beer companies, etc. But those huge sums should be shaved off the budget to reach a break-even point. If they've already deducted those unknown amounts somehow, then these recent Bond films are among the most expensive movies of all time. And that would be odd, because using the simplistic math presented here (break-even point = 2x reported budget + 2x estimated marketing budget), all of the Craig movies bar Skyfall lost money or barely broke even, but they keep forging ahead anyway with crazy expensive movies.

    None of which is to suggest NTTD will reach its mysterious break-even point!
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I think that MI6 article confused a lot of people because of the way they did their math. I think it’s fair to say that if NTTD makes double it’s budget, 500-600 million, that it will have been successful.
  • Posts: 3,333
    I see @ProfJoeButcher. So the article was based around a feature orginally produced by this site and not Companies House? Most confusing. Hard to trust anything news-wise nowadays. Thanks for the detailed response.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    Well the JoBlo one is based on the Express one which is based on the MI6 HQ one. And MI6 got budget figures from Companies House, but the rest is original speculation.

    Again, I don't know anything special, I just can't believe that, pandemic or not, EON budgets films so that they have to be the among their most successful ever to simply break even.
  • Posts: 3,333
    I certainly don't think that was Eon's intention before the movie was about to premiere, it's simply a result of the long delay and the interest accumulated on all the loans. Additionally, the squandered millions in marketing costs certainly has to be considered and how it'll impact the movie's overall profits. We might never get a clear and definitive figure until some Hollywood executive decides to write a book in the future, just as we didn't really find out all the nitty-gritty of 80's studio money losses until Steven Bach published his tell-all book in 1999.

    I'll be glad when this movie has finally been released and is behind us. It feels like we've been talking about this movie and its possible potential for ever. Not long now.
  • Posts: 1,092
    bondsum wrote: »
    I certainly don't think that was Eon's intention before the movie was about to premiere, it's simply a result of the long delay and the interest accumulated on all the loans. Additionally, the squandered millions in marketing costs certainly has to be considered and how it'll impact the movie's overall profits. We might never get a clear and definitive figure until some Hollywood executive decides to write a book in the future, just as we didn't really find out all the nitty-gritty of 80's studio money losses until Steven Bach published his tell-all book in 1999.

    I'll be glad when this movie has finally been released and is behind us. It feels like we've been talking about this movie and its possible potential for ever. Not long now.

    Indeed and because it's been 6 years since the last film, that's a long time. I feel bad for Craig to end his run this way but the initial delays on all on him. He should have pulled the trigger faster on his decision.

    As far as the BO goes, it will do well but has a ton going against it. In addition to what has been said, we must also compare to recent tent poles like Black Widow, which made a paltry 378 mil. Marvel is the biggest brand in the world and the average per film leading into BW was nearly 1 billion. Yes, the AVERAGE was that high and BW made under 400 mil. Ouch.

    Plus, if NTTD winds up being as anti-white male as it seems by the marketing... things won't go well in Western countries. Word of mouth will harm the ongoing financial take week to week. I just hope the film is good and Craig goes out strong.
  • Posts: 625
    Plus, if NTTD winds up being as anti-white male as it seems by the marketing... things won't go well in Western countries. Word of mouth will harm the ongoing financial take week to week. I just hope the film is good and Craig goes out strong.

    You mean "eastern countries", right?
    Because that's where there might be more anti-female people around.

    The western world is the one, that can deal with strong female heroes and embrace them.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited September 2021 Posts: 4,343
    Anti-white male? Seriously?
  • Posts: 380
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    I certainly don't think that was Eon's intention before the movie was about to premiere, it's simply a result of the long delay and the interest accumulated on all the loans. Additionally, the squandered millions in marketing costs certainly has to be considered and how it'll impact the movie's overall profits. We might never get a clear and definitive figure until some Hollywood executive decides to write a book in the future, just as we didn't really find out all the nitty-gritty of 80's studio money losses until Steven Bach published his tell-all book in 1999.

    I'll be glad when this movie has finally been released and is behind us. It feels like we've been talking about this movie and its possible potential for ever. Not long now.

    Indeed and because it's been 6 years since the last film, that's a long time. I feel bad for Craig to end his run this way but the initial delays on all on him. He should have pulled the trigger faster on his decision.

    As far as the BO goes, it will do well but has a ton going against it. In addition to what has been said, we must also compare to recent tent poles like Black Widow, which made a paltry 378 mil. Marvel is the biggest brand in the world and the average per film leading into BW was nearly 1 billion. Yes, the AVERAGE was that high and BW made under 400 mil. Ouch.

    Plus, if NTTD winds up being as anti-white male as it seems by the marketing... things won't go well in Western countries. Word of mouth will harm the ongoing financial take week to week. I just hope the film is good and Craig goes out strong.

    Uhm…where are you seeing this “anti-White male” marketing? Nothing I’ve seen reads close to that. At all. I guess competent minority women within stories translates to “anti-White male” for you.
  • Posts: 1,630
    Thereby proving yet again that there are many anti-women attitudes at play in "western" countries
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Marketing using the scene where the character threatens to shoot Bond in the knee could be an example.

    Progressive thought views the Nomi character as a challenge to white masculinity.

    https://www.flowjournal.org/2019/09/nomi-no-me/

  • Posts: 1,314
    Yeah but like, you don’t have to agree with it do you? It’s shaking up the franchise sure, but I’m secure enough in my masculinity to deal with it.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Just recognizing the view exists on all sides. No one should be required to sign up for any particular thought, they have reasons to believe what they do.
  • Posts: 1,630
    Oh, good grief ! Anyone remember Honey's story in DN ? She killed a man who raped her, and in a surreptitious way - using a deadly spider. (Not a non-deadly tarantula like the one Bond could not stand when it was in his bed and on him [on glass or plastic, actually]. I suppose it was used because it is larger and more impressive looking than a black widow spider) Did THAT threaten the masculinity of men in the audience, or that of Bond ? Nay. Her story didn't bother Bond. He figured the SOB had it coming. In TB who kills the villain and saves Bond ? Domino ! And this AFTER being tortured and exhausted. In NTTD the scene with the line about Bond's "good knee" is funny !
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    Just recognizing the view exists on all sides. No one should be required to sign up for any particular thought, they have reasons to believe what they do.

    +1
    When there's a narrative out there about "challenging white masculinity" and "Bond's a rapist" and "yay, Nomi wants to shoot Bond in the knee", some people are gonna expect that the film isn't going to be their bag, and "you don't want a Black woman as a OO" or "you should be more comfortable in your masculinity" shouldn't necessarily be the response. If folks are saying that NTTD is going to bring big changes to Bond, they should not also be saying that there's no reason to single out this movie or character for concern.

    That said, certain folks should definitely stop hyperventilating about all of this, at least until they've seen the damn film!

  • Posts: 1,092
    Burgess wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    I certainly don't think that was Eon's intention before the movie was about to premiere, it's simply a result of the long delay and the interest accumulated on all the loans. Additionally, the squandered millions in marketing costs certainly has to be considered and how it'll impact the movie's overall profits. We might never get a clear and definitive figure until some Hollywood executive decides to write a book in the future, just as we didn't really find out all the nitty-gritty of 80's studio money losses until Steven Bach published his tell-all book in 1999.

    I'll be glad when this movie has finally been released and is behind us. It feels like we've been talking about this movie and its possible potential for ever. Not long now.

    Indeed and because it's been 6 years since the last film, that's a long time. I feel bad for Craig to end his run this way but the initial delays on all on him. He should have pulled the trigger faster on his decision.

    As far as the BO goes, it will do well but has a ton going against it. In addition to what has been said, we must also compare to recent tent poles like Black Widow, which made a paltry 378 mil. Marvel is the biggest brand in the world and the average per film leading into BW was nearly 1 billion. Yes, the AVERAGE was that high and BW made under 400 mil. Ouch.

    Plus, if NTTD winds up being as anti-white male as it seems by the marketing... things won't go well in Western countries. Word of mouth will harm the ongoing financial take week to week. I just hope the film is good and Craig goes out strong.

    Uhm…where are you seeing this “anti-White male” marketing? Nothing I’ve seen reads close to that. At all. I guess competent minority women within stories translates to “anti-White male” for you.

    The entire world is antiwhite. If you don't see that, open your eyes.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    I certainly don't think that was Eon's intention before the movie was about to premiere, it's simply a result of the long delay and the interest accumulated on all the loans. Additionally, the squandered millions in marketing costs certainly has to be considered and how it'll impact the movie's overall profits. We might never get a clear and definitive figure until some Hollywood executive decides to write a book in the future, just as we didn't really find out all the nitty-gritty of 80's studio money losses until Steven Bach published his tell-all book in 1999.

    I'll be glad when this movie has finally been released and is behind us. It feels like we've been talking about this movie and its possible potential for ever. Not long now.

    Indeed and because it's been 6 years since the last film, that's a long time. I feel bad for Craig to end his run this way but the initial delays on all on him. He should have pulled the trigger faster on his decision.

    As far as the BO goes, it will do well but has a ton going against it. In addition to what has been said, we must also compare to recent tent poles like Black Widow, which made a paltry 378 mil. Marvel is the biggest brand in the world and the average per film leading into BW was nearly 1 billion. Yes, the AVERAGE was that high and BW made under 400 mil. Ouch.

    Plus, if NTTD winds up being as anti-white male as it seems by the marketing... things won't go well in Western countries. Word of mouth will harm the ongoing financial take week to week. I just hope the film is good and Craig goes out strong.

    Uhm…where are you seeing this “anti-White male” marketing? Nothing I’ve seen reads close to that. At all. I guess competent minority women within stories translates to “anti-White male” for you.

    The entire world is antiwhite. If you don't see that, open your eyes.

    Persecution complex is definitely a recurring trait in white male fragility.
  • Posts: 380
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    I certainly don't think that was Eon's intention before the movie was about to premiere, it's simply a result of the long delay and the interest accumulated on all the loans. Additionally, the squandered millions in marketing costs certainly has to be considered and how it'll impact the movie's overall profits. We might never get a clear and definitive figure until some Hollywood executive decides to write a book in the future, just as we didn't really find out all the nitty-gritty of 80's studio money losses until Steven Bach published his tell-all book in 1999.

    I'll be glad when this movie has finally been released and is behind us. It feels like we've been talking about this movie and its possible potential for ever. Not long now.

    Indeed and because it's been 6 years since the last film, that's a long time. I feel bad for Craig to end his run this way but the initial delays on all on him. He should have pulled the trigger faster on his decision.

    As far as the BO goes, it will do well but has a ton going against it. In addition to what has been said, we must also compare to recent tent poles like Black Widow, which made a paltry 378 mil. Marvel is the biggest brand in the world and the average per film leading into BW was nearly 1 billion. Yes, the AVERAGE was that high and BW made under 400 mil. Ouch.

    Plus, if NTTD winds up being as anti-white male as it seems by the marketing... things won't go well in Western countries. Word of mouth will harm the ongoing financial take week to week. I just hope the film is good and Craig goes out strong.

    Uhm…where are you seeing this “anti-White male” marketing? Nothing I’ve seen reads close to that. At all. I guess competent minority women within stories translates to “anti-White male” for you.

    The entire world is antiwhite. If you don't see that, open your eyes.

    Being a non-White person, I know that’s BS.
  • Posts: 380
    Just recognizing the view exists on all sides. No one should be required to sign up for any particular thought, they have reasons to believe what they do.

    +1
    When there's a narrative out there about "challenging white masculinity" and "Bond's a rapist" and "yay, Nomi wants to shoot Bond in the knee", some people are gonna expect that the film isn't going to be their bag, and "you don't want a Black woman as a OO" or "you should be more comfortable in your masculinity" shouldn't necessarily be the response. If folks are saying that NTTD is going to bring big changes to Bond, they should not also be saying that there's no reason to single out this movie or character for concern.

    That said, certain folks should definitely stop hyperventilating about all of this, at least until they've seen the damn film!

    This is a serious misreading of modern culture and NTTD. White masculinity isn’t the issue. White supremacy is the issue. But we digress. Having a competent woman of color challenge Bond has nothing to do with his Whiteness or his masculinity. It’s a pissing contest, of sorts, but one based upon career ambition not racial hate.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited September 2021 Posts: 1,711
    Burgess wrote: »
    Just recognizing the view exists on all sides. No one should be required to sign up for any particular thought, they have reasons to believe what they do.

    +1
    When there's a narrative out there about "challenging white masculinity" and "Bond's a rapist" and "yay, Nomi wants to shoot Bond in the knee", some people are gonna expect that the film isn't going to be their bag, and "you don't want a Black woman as a OO" or "you should be more comfortable in your masculinity" shouldn't necessarily be the response. If folks are saying that NTTD is going to bring big changes to Bond, they should not also be saying that there's no reason to single out this movie or character for concern.

    That said, certain folks should definitely stop hyperventilating about all of this, at least until they've seen the damn film!

    This is a serious misreading of modern culture and NTTD. White masculinity isn’t the issue. White supremacy is the issue. But we digress. Having a competent woman of color challenge Bond has nothing to do with his Whiteness or his masculinity. It’s a pissing contest, of sorts, but one based upon career ambition not racial hate.

    I was referring to the article shared above, not stating my own view. That's just what's out there and it's part of what people are reacting and overreacting to. None of us has seen the movie, and most of this stuff strikes me as a pissing contest, honestly!
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Indiewire reports that NTTD is projected to open domestically within the $65-$85 million range with an estimated total final amount of $150 million. Early figures but they look realistic to me.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,531
    matt_u wrote: »
    Indiewire reports that NTTD is projected to open domestically within the $65-$85 million range with an estimated total final amount of $150 million. Early figures but they look realistic to me.

    I wonder if DC gets a cut of the box office or profits ?
  • Posts: 1,092
    Burgess wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    I certainly don't think that was Eon's intention before the movie was about to premiere, it's simply a result of the long delay and the interest accumulated on all the loans. Additionally, the squandered millions in marketing costs certainly has to be considered and how it'll impact the movie's overall profits. We might never get a clear and definitive figure until some Hollywood executive decides to write a book in the future, just as we didn't really find out all the nitty-gritty of 80's studio money losses until Steven Bach published his tell-all book in 1999.

    I'll be glad when this movie has finally been released and is behind us. It feels like we've been talking about this movie and its possible potential for ever. Not long now.

    Indeed and because it's been 6 years since the last film, that's a long time. I feel bad for Craig to end his run this way but the initial delays on all on him. He should have pulled the trigger faster on his decision.

    As far as the BO goes, it will do well but has a ton going against it. In addition to what has been said, we must also compare to recent tent poles like Black Widow, which made a paltry 378 mil. Marvel is the biggest brand in the world and the average per film leading into BW was nearly 1 billion. Yes, the AVERAGE was that high and BW made under 400 mil. Ouch.

    Plus, if NTTD winds up being as anti-white male as it seems by the marketing... things won't go well in Western countries. Word of mouth will harm the ongoing financial take week to week. I just hope the film is good and Craig goes out strong.

    Uhm…where are you seeing this “anti-White male” marketing? Nothing I’ve seen reads close to that. At all. I guess competent minority women within stories translates to “anti-White male” for you.

    The entire world is antiwhite. If you don't see that, open your eyes.

    Being a non-White person, I know that’s BS.

    As a non-white as well, I want everyone to quickly consider the following and then let's all get back on topic, please.

    February is black history month in the States and is celebrated. What if someone tried to make March White history month? Consider the outrage that would follow. Every single other group, including mine own, Hispanic, can come together to celebrate their culture, EXCEPT FOR WHITES. If that happened, media, academia, the entire infrastructure of the planet would call them vile names and attempt to destroy them.

    Think about it. Now, back to Bond!
  • edited September 2021 Posts: 380
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    I certainly don't think that was Eon's intention before the movie was about to premiere, it's simply a result of the long delay and the interest accumulated on all the loans. Additionally, the squandered millions in marketing costs certainly has to be considered and how it'll impact the movie's overall profits. We might never get a clear and definitive figure until some Hollywood executive decides to write a book in the future, just as we didn't really find out all the nitty-gritty of 80's studio money losses until Steven Bach published his tell-all book in 1999.

    I'll be glad when this movie has finally been released and is behind us. It feels like we've been talking about this movie and its possible potential for ever. Not long now.

    Indeed and because it's been 6 years since the last film, that's a long time. I feel bad for Craig to end his run this way but the initial delays on all on him. He should have pulled the trigger faster on his decision.

    As far as the BO goes, it will do well but has a ton going against it. In addition to what has been said, we must also compare to recent tent poles like Black Widow, which made a paltry 378 mil. Marvel is the biggest brand in the world and the average per film leading into BW was nearly 1 billion. Yes, the AVERAGE was that high and BW made under 400 mil. Ouch.

    Plus, if NTTD winds up being as anti-white male as it seems by the marketing... things won't go well in Western countries. Word of mouth will harm the ongoing financial take week to week. I just hope the film is good and Craig goes out strong.

    Uhm…where are you seeing this “anti-White male” marketing? Nothing I’ve seen reads close to that. At all. I guess competent minority women within stories translates to “anti-White male” for you.

    The entire world is antiwhite. If you don't see that, open your eyes.

    Being a non-White person, I know that’s BS.

    As a non-white as well, I want everyone to quickly consider the following and then let's all get back on topic, please.

    February is black history month in the States and is celebrated. What if someone tried to make March White history month? Consider the outrage that would follow. Every single other group, including mine own, Hispanic, can come together to celebrate their culture, EXCEPT FOR WHITES. If that happened, media, academia, the entire infrastructure of the planet would call them vile names and attempt to destroy them.

    Think about it. Now, back to Bond!

    That’s an incredibly reductionist and obtuse view. Black History Month is observed because the diverse achievements of Black Americans were not studied, celebrated or--in many cases--even acknowledged. White Americans are the racial (or ethnic) majority within the US. White history is, by default, the center around which curriculum and culture are fashioned. White history month doesn't exist because it doesn't need to exist. White history is taught, lived and experienced. Black history, on the other hand, is typically limited to a highlight reel of slavery and civil rights. Those should be studied but Black achievements in the US go well beyond those periods in history. In many cases, those achievements were made in spite of slavery and American apartheid.

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