"I don t drink...wine."- The Dracula Thread

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  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,008
    Well if 'uneven' means you don't agree with him then aren't we all 'uneven' as critiques. Including yourself?

    And what do you mean by 'uneven as a writer'.....that you like some of his books but not all of them? Pretty much goes for everybody who's ever read his stuff i should think...

    Myself, i'm just pleased someone so well repected and successful in the world of horror appreciates the clever and original take on a subject that would have seemed exhausted of ideas.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Well if 'uneven' means you don't agree with him then aren't we all 'uneven' as critiques. Including yourself?

    And what do you mean by 'uneven as a writer'.....that you like some of his books but not all of them? Pretty much goes for everybody who's ever read his stuff i should think...

    Myself, i'm just pleased someone so well repected and successful in the world of horror appreciates the clever and original take on a subject that would have seemed exhausted of ideas.

    I happen to often agree with King: he praises deservingly Elmore Leonard, George Pelecanos and Deon Meyer. We seem to love the same writers, at least when it comes to crime fiction. But his opinion of Dracula has to be assessed on its own merit. Given at how much he complained about Kubrick's treatment of The Shining (great horror movie imo), I wonder how he can praise the Beeb's Drac. Pot kettle black I guess.

    Evaluating King as a writer of popular literature, I find there are some who are far more consistently good than Stephen King (the authors mentioned above for instance). But hey he has many fans.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,008
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Well if 'uneven' means you don't agree with him then aren't we all 'uneven' as critiques. Including yourself?

    And what do you mean by 'uneven as a writer'.....that you like some of his books but not all of them? Pretty much goes for everybody who's ever read his stuff i should think...

    Myself, i'm just pleased someone so well repected and successful in the world of horror appreciates the clever and original take on a subject that would have seemed exhausted of ideas.

    I happen to often agree with King: he praises deservingly Elmore Leonard, George Pelecanos and Deon Meyer. We seem to love the same writers, at least when it comes to crime fiction. But his opinion of Dracula has to be assessed on its own merit. Given at how much he complained about Kubrick's treatment of The Shining (great horror movie imo), I wonder how he can praise the Beeb's Drac. Pot kettle black I guess.

    Evaluating King as a writer of popular literature, I find there are some who are far more consistently good than Stephen King (the authors mentioned above for instance). But hey he has many fans.

    Well King has a right to criticize adaptations of his own work at the same time praising an adaptation of someone else's. That's just his opinion.

    Who knows, had he been alive Bram Stoker might have enjoyed this newest version of his novel...😉
  • Posts: 15,124
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Well if 'uneven' means you don't agree with him then aren't we all 'uneven' as critiques. Including yourself?

    And what do you mean by 'uneven as a writer'.....that you like some of his books but not all of them? Pretty much goes for everybody who's ever read his stuff i should think...

    Myself, i'm just pleased someone so well repected and successful in the world of horror appreciates the clever and original take on a subject that would have seemed exhausted of ideas.

    I happen to often agree with King: he praises deservingly Elmore Leonard, George Pelecanos and Deon Meyer. We seem to love the same writers, at least when it comes to crime fiction. But his opinion of Dracula has to be assessed on its own merit. Given at how much he complained about Kubrick's treatment of The Shining (great horror movie imo), I wonder how he can praise the Beeb's Drac. Pot kettle black I guess.

    Evaluating King as a writer of popular literature, I find there are some who are far more consistently good than Stephen King (the authors mentioned above for instance). But hey he has many fans.

    Well King has a right to criticize adaptations of his own work at the same time praising an adaptation of someone else's. That's just his opinion.

    Who knows, had he been alive Bram Stoker might have enjoyed this newest version of his novel...😉

    Well, if Stoker could have received the royalties for all the adaptations of his most famous novel, he'd enjoy all of them! Although I suspect that, as a fairly conservative civil servant, maybe a closet Catholic, he'd been appalled by the vulgar farce that was Coppola's Dracula. I do suspect he'd be horrified by this one too, and find the depiction of his characters and his time utterly ludicrous.

    King is entitled to his opinion. He happens to be wrong on both Dracula and The Shining. For the latter, I can sort of understand : that's his work, after all. For Dracula, he truly has no excuse.
  • King is inconsistent but that goes with the terroritory when you're someone as mad with ideas as him imo. Bit like Moffatt in that way actually.

    I've loved most of the books of his that I've read. Disagree with him on The Shining, on balance I probably preferred the film, but to be fair I think his criticisms were valid. It just comes down to subjective preference.

    Glad he liked Dracula too.
  • Posts: 15,124
    There's author prolific authors who are far more consistent. If he is a bit like Moffat as a writer, that might explain why he liked that dread so much. I think it's also a bit because he's a better reader than viewer.
    But talking with inconsistencies, Gatiss and Moffatt have beaten Coppola in the way they extended the vampire's powers and weaknessesses as they go... Then to contradict themselves later on. Crucifixes don't work, unless they do, you can kill a vampire with a stake, until he tries to commit suicide, etc.

    And what with the way the characters make Sherlockian deductions out of thin air? Harker finds a secret passage with ridiculous ease. It can be justified with Sherlock Holmes as he was written as an exceptional man with borderline godly powers of deduction, but Harker is just an ordinary man.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 12,837
    More profilic maybe but are there any horror author's as iconic and profilic? When I said mad with ideas I didn't mean just in terms of output, I mean that he's had such a genuinely big impact on pop culture because of how memorable it is. When your work is that high concept and out there and you keep on churning out stories it's bound to be a bit inconsistent imo. Same with Moffat.

    The crucifix was more of a psychological thing wasn't it? Like the sunlight. That was just in his mind. That's why it suddenly "worked" and then didn't again. The stakes and tainted blood were always the only things we know of that could actually kill him.

    Stakes working from someone else but not via suicide is a bit flimsy but I think that's allowable. You can justify it by saying it's more to do with willpower than a biological weakness imo. It didn't work when he did it because the vampire part of him didn't want it to and was resistant to it. Flimsy? Sure. But it's a fantasy show about a magic vampire at the end of the day. Personally I didn't think twice about it once they explained it, I bought it in the same way I bought all the other magic stuff.

    What's important is that they never contradicted their own rules they set up. Crucifix and sunlight never really worked, he just imagined they did. Stakes never worked via suicide, he just didn't find out until he tried it. Might be different to the source but it was all consistent with the world they set up.
  • DrunkIrishPoetDrunkIrishPoet The Amber Coast
    Posts: 156
    Dracula's Black Cadillac Narrated by the Count himself, telling the tale of the time his car broke down in Texas during a road trip vacation across America; how he met some strippers and fell in love and ended up murdering a whole bunch of people. Funniest book I've read lately!

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/1521977208



  • Posts: 15,124
    @thelivingroyale I was not specifically talking of horror writers. Yes, King is pretty much THE horror writer since Love craft and maybe only Lovecraft can claim to be bigger than him in the genre. But there's plenty of writers of popular fiction far more consistent than King. Elmore Leonard comes to my mind, but I digress.
    They were changing the rules of their universe when it was convenient for the plot. And I disagree with you about it being OK since it's a vampire story. I remember one critic of Coppola's Dracula who remarked that when you have a universe where supernatural exists, you must set strict boundaries on how and when it manifests itself. Otherwise you have a gigantic deus ex machin instead of a story.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489


    Great scene.
  • Posts: 12,526


    Great scene.

    Absolute classic, love the accents too! :-bd
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    RogueAgent wrote: »


    Great scene.

    Absolute classic, love the accents too! :-bd

    Komm...her!
  • The "re-imagining" of that scene is also one of the highlights of the 1979 Dracula (with Frank Langella)...

    "Sacrilege!"
  • Posts: 16,169
    CraterGuns wrote: »
    The "re-imagining" of that scene is also one of the highlights of the 1979 Dracula (with Frank Langella)...

    "Sacrilege!"

    I remember the audience laughing after Langella smashed the mirror. Great scene, though. My favorite line is "I'm often told I have a light footstep."
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    I just watched The Satanic Rites of Dracula for the first time in years and I had a blast. Funnily enough, I was prepared for one of the weaker entries before watching it.

    What are the general opinions on here about this one?
  • GoldenGun wrote: »
    I just watched The Satanic Rites of Dracula for the first time in years and I had a blast. Funnily enough, I was prepared for one of the weaker entries before watching it.

    What are the general opinions on here about this one?

    My opinion of it has grown more favorable over the years, and definitely became more positive when it was finally released here in the States in a remastered hi-def version.

    The mixture of Dracula and espionage is a bit odd, but it works in the film. It's rather intriguing to have members of MI5, teamed with a Scotland Yard inspector, secretly investigating the chief of MI5 -- who's working for Dracula!
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    CraterGuns wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I just watched The Satanic Rites of Dracula for the first time in years and I had a blast. Funnily enough, I was prepared for one of the weaker entries before watching it.

    What are the general opinions on here about this one?

    My opinion of it has grown more favorable over the years, and definitely became more positive when it was finally released here in the States in a remastered hi-def version.

    The mixture of Dracula and espionage is a bit odd, but it works in the film. It's rather intriguing to have members of MI5, teamed with a Scotland Yard inspector, secretly investigating the chief of MI5 -- who's working for Dracula!

    It's an odd mixture of styles, but one that I can appreciate very much. I also liked the rather mysterious atmosphere here, emphasised by some effective music and very fine cinematography.

    I would add to all that, that this one never feels as cheap as some of its predecessors like Scars of Dracula for instance.

    Just love the scene where Dracula sits behind a desk as the director of a multinational business conglomerate speaking English with a Romanian accent. Priceless stuff.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2020 Posts: 5,970
    I'm writing my own version of Dracula. A more faithful telling of the story, and I'm imagining it to have a Robert Eggers-esque tone to it, like The Witch and The Lighthouse.

    Also, I actually like to cast my scripts when I'm writing them so I can better imagine the situation so if anyone wants to see my casting choices here they are:

    https://www.imdb.com/list/ls093987869/
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    Decided to write down my thoughts after my very positive rediscovery of The Satanic Rites of Dracula:
    Not the greatest Dracula film by any means, but one of my favourites nonetheless. Mixing both a satanic cult and spy film tropes with everyone’s favourite undead creature makes for a surprisingly entertaining viewing. The great Christopher Lee reprises his famous role as the Count for one last outing and this time Dracula is a rich industrialist using power-hungry authorities as his minions. We have come a far way with the one and only Dracula serving as a metaphor for favouritism and corruption, though worryingly as that might sound I feel that's unintentionally brilliant.

    Add the always reliable and ever energetic Peter Cushing to the mix and you've got yourself a fine vampire film. Even more so because Brian Probyn's cinematography and John Cacavas' music score add a lot of atmosphere to the film's mysteries. Other convincing performances include devilish brides Barbara Yu Ling and Mia Martin, Joanna Lumley as our hero's granddaughter and police inspectors William Franklyn and Michael Coles, the latter reprising his role from the previous entry in the Hammer Dracula cycle.

    "The Satanic Rites of Dracula" is not for everyone, for me though its odd mixture of styles and the contemporary setting are a breath of fresh air in the world of the undead, even though I'd be happy to revisit some of the more traditional approaches as well. Variety is the spice of life, and all that jazz.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Just finished the new BBC/Netflix series. I liked the start in Dracula s castle. The rest was pretty much dreadful. It suffers from talentless writers, and Claes Bang sucks as Deacula-not in a good way. He has one good line: Democracy is the tyranny of the uninformed. So true. This was a waste of time.
  • Posts: 15,124
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I just watched The Satanic Rites of Dracula for the first time in years and I had a blast. Funnily enough, I was prepared for one of the weaker entries before watching it.

    What are the general opinions on here about this one?

    It's not a good film by any stretch to F the imagination but it's not nearly as bad as people say. I quite enjoyed it myself, because at least they tried. Dracula has a proper grandiose scheme, he's not merely killing off a few teenagers for revenge or some flimsy reasons. The film got criticised for being too much like a poor man's Bond movie with a scheme that is borderline Blofeldesque. While this is fair criticism I always thought this is what logically we'd get to bring Dracula in a modern setting.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I have seen some people here advocating for Gatiss and Moffat as Bond writers. After watching Dracula, I have just one word in response: No.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I have seen some people here advocating for Gatiss and Moffat as Bond writers. After watching Dracula, I have just one word in response: No.

    Absolutely agree-- Dracula was a train wreck that got worse with each episode (two was Dracula as Sherlock, with one heckuva cliffhanger, and; episode three was a WTF?!?!?! all the way through).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    peter wrote: »
    I have seen some people here advocating for Gatiss and Moffat as Bond writers. After watching Dracula, I have just one word in response: No.

    Absolutely agree-- Dracula was a train wreck that got worse with each episode (two was Dracula as Sherlock, with one heckuva cliffhanger, and; episode three was a WTF?!?!?! all the way through).

    You can add idiotic dialogue.
  • Posts: 15,124
    peter wrote: »
    I have seen some people here advocating for Gatiss and Moffat as Bond writers. After watching Dracula, I have just one word in response: No.

    Absolutely agree-- Dracula was a train wreck that got worse with each episode (two was Dracula as Sherlock, with one heckuva cliffhanger, and; episode three was a WTF?!?!?! all the way through).

    You can add idiotic dialogue.

    Boy Gatiss and Moffatt writing Bond would be a true horror.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,008
    I wasn't a fan of the film but good memories of the preview screening when i found this very old ticket i kept...!IMG-20200206-151125.jpg
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Ludovico wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I have seen some people here advocating for Gatiss and Moffat as Bond writers. After watching Dracula, I have just one word in response: No.

    Absolutely agree-- Dracula was a train wreck that got worse with each episode (two was Dracula as Sherlock, with one heckuva cliffhanger, and; episode three was a WTF?!?!?! all the way through).

    You can add idiotic dialogue.

    Boy Gatiss and Moffatt writing Bond would be a true horror.

    Yes, I don't think they'd be a good fit at all.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Ludovico wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I have seen some people here advocating for Gatiss and Moffat as Bond writers. After watching Dracula, I have just one word in response: No.

    Absolutely agree-- Dracula was a train wreck that got worse with each episode (two was Dracula as Sherlock, with one heckuva cliffhanger, and; episode three was a WTF?!?!?! all the way through).

    You can add idiotic dialogue.

    Boy Gatiss and Moffatt writing Bond would be a true horror.

    Yes, I don't think they'd be a good fit at all.

    I just don't understand. Gatiss made such a good adaptation of MR James' The Tractare Middoth. How could he turn Dracula into such a joke? Awful, awful dialogues, anachronistic period piece, then a jump into a modern era that turns said anachronistic period piece into something meaningless.
  • Posts: 15,124
    I haven't watched it yet, but here is Maven of the Eventide's review of Dracula's Guest :


    I think I expressed on this forum my theory about it.
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