"I don t drink...wine."- The Dracula Thread

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  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Yes, that's the kind of thing I was thinking of. I mean, if someone could make a black and white silent movie of The Call of Cthulhu in the '00s, there has to be potential in all that classic imagery in Dracula's Guest. Maybe one day...
  • Posts: 15,123
    New stage project. I really wonder if this one is necessary or relevant: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-66714678.amp
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 2023 Posts: 3,152
    Yeah, sounds like a gimmick, tbh. I've got no patience with gimmicks. I'll pass.
  • Posts: 1,860
    I found it odd that "Demeter" used burning sunlight in the story since it is a movie trope that does not exist in the original novel.
  • Posts: 15,123
    delfloria wrote: »
    I found it odd that "Demeter" used burning sunlight in the story since it is a movie trope that does not exist in the original novel.

    It's also a very common misconception.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 2023 Posts: 3,152
    Does the Voyage of the Demeter not end with all the crew dead, including the captain with his hands tied to the wheel 'with a crucifix and beads' and a huge 'dog' leaping off the derelict ship and disappearing into the stormy night? Poor show, if not - with classic imagery like that, why would anyone change it for something else?
  • Posts: 15,123
    Venutius wrote: »
    Does the Voyage of the Demeter not end with all the crew dead, including the captain with his hands tied to the wheel 'with a crucifix and beads' and a huge 'dog' leaping off the derelict ship and disappearing into the stormy night? Poor show, if not - with classic imagery like that, why would anyone change it for something else?

    Yes that's how it ends in the novel.

    Another review of it: https://www.timeout.com/movies/the-last-voyage-of-the-demeter-2023

    I simply don't understand why Dracula is pretty much used in modern iterations as a glorified slasher antagonist.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 2023 Posts: 3,152
    Yeah, I've just scoured a few reviews and it looks like they haven't bothered to use Stoker's ending where the ship runs aground in the storm at Whitby. I honestly fail to understand why anyone would want to take such wonderful source material and not only change it for something much poorer, but dump it altogether. Vot is point? I loved the idea of this film, but it looks like the reality is just another in a long line of disappointments. Shame.
  • Posts: 15,123
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yeah, I've just scoured a few reviews and it looks like they haven't bothered to use Stoker's ending where the ship runs aground in the storm at Whitby. I honestly fail to understand why anyone would want to take such wonderful source material and not only change it for something much poorer, but dump it altogether. Vot is point? I loved the idea of this film, but it looks like the reality is just another in a long line of disappointments. Shame.

    The term is brand recognition. Dracula sells more than "A poor man's Alien on a boat".
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Ludovico wrote: »
    The term is brand recognition. Dracula sells more than "A poor man's Alien on a boat".
    :)) Yes, I noticed that it'd been given an alternative title of 'Dracula: Last Voyage of the Demeter' in some areas!
  • Posts: 1,860
    Ludovico wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I found it odd that "Demeter" used burning sunlight in the story since it is a movie trope that does not exist in the original novel.

    It's also a very common misconception.

    I just found it odd because this was based on a section of the NOVEL. I was also very disappointed that the Dracula/Wolf was not used as the ship came to rest. It is one of the more memorable images from the novel.
  • Posts: 15,123
    delfloria wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I found it odd that "Demeter" used burning sunlight in the story since it is a movie trope that does not exist in the original novel.

    It's also a very common misconception.

    I just found it odd because this was based on a section of the NOVEL. I was also very disappointed that the Dracula/Wolf was not used as the ship came to rest. It is one of the more memorable images from the novel.

    I don't think they care about the source material. They pretty much used it as a gimmick to sell the movie.
  • Posts: 1,860
    Ludovico wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I found it odd that "Demeter" used burning sunlight in the story since it is a movie trope that does not exist in the original novel.

    It's also a very common misconception.

    I just found it odd because this was based on a section of the NOVEL. I was also very disappointed that the Dracula/Wolf was not used as the ship came to rest. It is one of the more memorable images from the novel.

    I don't think they care about the source material. They pretty much used it as a gimmick to sell the movie.

    And that pretty much sums it up.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 2023 Posts: 3,152
    That's also what's both sickening and laughable. Wasted potential really annoys me - if something's rubbish, it's just rubbish and you can dismiss it, but when it needn't have been? That's just...grrr... The source material for the voyage of the Demeter is so brilliant and so vividly visual, it lends itself perfectly to a film version. It's also full of scope for expansion and tightening the screws with a creeping, rising dread that'd lend itself brilliantly to the screen. And what do they do with it? Turn in a half-baked travesty, by the sound of it. Farcical. I've never understood why people change things only to make them worse. Dammit, now I can feel the inner Meldrew waking up again...they drive you to it, though, man.
  • Posts: 15,123
    Venutius wrote: »
    That's also what's both sickening and laughable. Wasted potential really annoys me - if something's rubbish, it's just rubbish and you can dismiss it, but when it needn't have been? That's just...grrr... The source material for the voyage of the Demeter is so brilliant and so vividly visual, it lends itself perfectly to a film version. It's also full of scope for expansion and tightening the screws with a creeping, rising dread that'd lend itself brilliantly to the screen. And what do they do with it? Turn in a half-baked travesty, by the sound of it. Farcical. I've never understood why people change things only to make them worse. Dammit, now I can feel the inner Meldrew waking up again...they drive you to it, though, man.

    Because people think they're more clever than the source material. It might be true sometimes: The Godfather is a far superior movie to the novel, same with The Bridge on the River Kwai. But when it comes to a classic of horror such as Dracula, I think you must thread carefully and be humble. But no, you have guys like Moffat and Gatiss thinking they know better than Stoker, Doyle, Stevenson, etc. And whoever made The Last Voyage of the Demeter just going for a conventional slasher, from what I understand.
  • Posts: 1,860
    Demeter was definitely a missed opportunity.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    It was. Changing things for the better is one thing - changing things and ending up with something worse is a self-inflicted fail.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    The problem, as I see it, is that such films try to do "something else" but then don't have the balls to stray off the path of formula, been-there-done-that and "let's try to appeal to the widest audience possible."
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    I enjoyed Demeter a lot, personally. I don't mind them including immolation, as it is always a stunning visual. I would have liked to have seen a bit more variety in terms of Dracula's appearance, but overall it was a fun little B movie. A solid three stars from me.
  • Posts: 15,123
    More on Demeter and Universal's Dark Universe. Can't say I disagree: https://www.cbr.com/last-voyage-of-demeter-universal-back-to-basics/

    Question: is the Dark Universe still a project? Thought that had been scrapped due to catastrophic management.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Ludovico wrote: »
    More on Demeter and Universal's Dark Universe. Can't say I disagree: https://www.cbr.com/last-voyage-of-demeter-universal-back-to-basics/

    Question: is the Dark Universe still a project? Thought that had been scrapped due to catastrophic management.

    I don't know why they'd keep bothering. It's clear they haven't figured out how to proceed yet. After x number of failed attempts at getting something launched, and by that I mean a film that warrants at least a number two in a series, their efforts are becoming laughable. It's clear that someone with a long-term vision has to be brought in.
  • Posts: 15,123
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    More on Demeter and Universal's Dark Universe. Can't say I disagree: https://www.cbr.com/last-voyage-of-demeter-universal-back-to-basics/

    Question: is the Dark Universe still a project? Thought that had been scrapped due to catastrophic management.

    I don't know why they'd keep bothering. It's clear they haven't figured out how to proceed yet. After x number of failed attempts at getting something launched, and by that I mean a film that warrants at least a number two in a series, their efforts are becoming laughable. It's clear that someone with a long-term vision has to be brought in.

    Maybe they haven't bothered, but this article mentions is as if it's still a project.

    Whether they still have a Dark Universe project or not, they should just focus on one good, solid horror movie based on one of their classic properties. Start by making one thing right. And like the article says, just go for a strong adaptation of Dracula. And avoid CGIs or big action pieces.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Personally, I'd rather they nixed the Dark Universe idea entirely and make films like Demeter going forward. The shared universe idea is tired. As I said above, I enjoyed Demeter very much for what it was, and if it comes down to a choice between that and a series of films that I need to stay up to date with (and will also respect the source material less than any standalone film would) then I know which one I'm going to choose to watch.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited October 2023 Posts: 24,183
    Well, in my brutally honest opinion, you can't kick off a "universe" unless you start with at least a few really good films that work as standalone adventures. An audience cannot be expected to embrace a "franchise" (and boy, do I hate that word!) when it has nothing substantial to love first.

    Before the MCU, there was "just" Iron Man. Before the DCEU, there was "just" Man Of Steel (and that universe tried to accomplish something bigger way too fast.) And yes, Star Wars was once just one awesome blockbuster film too.

    A great Dracula adaptation. A great Frankenstein adaptation. And a few more like that. By the time you get to The Mummy or The Creature FTBL, perhaps you can begin to hint at something bigger. And this may take years! It's just silly to assume that you can be sitting on a huge cinematic universe after a few months.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,803
  • Posts: 15,123

    Yes I've read that one. In my Dracula dream cast, Christopher Waltz would be Van Helsing. Physically he's quite different than the novel's, but when he plays good guy he's got that mannerism that fits the character perfectly. Or Simon Russell Beale for an appearance closer to the source material.
    Personally, I'd rather they nixed the Dark Universe idea entirely and make films like Demeter going forward. The shared universe idea is tired. As I said above, I enjoyed Demeter very much for what it was, and if it comes down to a choice between that and a series of films that I need to stay up to date with (and will also respect the source material less than any standalone film would) then I know which one I'm going to choose to watch.

    The thing is, Dracula is not some slasher antagonist. He's way more than that. And the Demeter episode in the novel works in part because of its brevity.
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    More on Demeter and Universal's Dark Universe. Can't say I disagree: https://www.cbr.com/last-voyage-of-demeter-universal-back-to-basics/

    Question: is the Dark Universe still a project? Thought that had been scrapped due to catastrophic management.

    I don't know why they'd keep bothering. It's clear they haven't figured out how to proceed yet. After x number of failed attempts at getting something launched, and by that I mean a film that warrants at least a number two in a series, their efforts are becoming laughable. It's clear that someone with a long-term vision has to be brought in.

    In the end, that's it. Universal has the most iconic horror monsters in history. They should start with a solid first standalone movie.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Ludovico wrote: »
    The thing is, Dracula is not some slasher antagonist. He's way more than that. And the Demeter episode in the novel works in part because of its brevity.

    Yup, I'm aware - I still enjoyed the film though.
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