Should we get a new M / Q / Moneypenny for BOND 26 and beyond ?

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  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,423
    I don't disagree with that @Daltonforyou conflict always makes for a more interesting story. I would love a return to the M-Bond dynamic of the early films. Bond would get called on the carpet when needed. He listened and respected M. I don't see Connery's Bond breaking into M's house and rummaging through his files.

    Their first scene together in DN is a textbook example of how to introduce characters without a lot of exposition. When M calls Bond out for taking the Berretta we see how even Bond can't fool M. Many great examples exist through the next few films. It was such a great relationship. While I would love to see a return, for the reasons you mention, it is unlikely do to so.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,028
    I haven't looked into this thread for a while but after reading up a bit I still think that a "clean slate" approach would be the best, and would like to raise this once more. This is not taking anything away from those actors who filled the roles so far, who did a great job. But unlike before nobody can pretend that the next Bond is just a continuation of the last one (ok, I know they didn't with Craig, but they made the funny decision to keep Judi Dench... but let her play a different M from before). A new start with all-new actors (to the franchise) is easier to comprehend for the audience than trying to having to rearrange familiar faces to fit a new situation.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I haven't looked into this thread for a while but after reading up a bit I still think that a "clean slate" approach would be the best, and would like to raise this once more. This is not taking anything away from those actors who filled the roles so far, who did a great job. But unlike before nobody can pretend that the next Bond is just a continuation of the last one (ok, I know they didn't with Craig, but they made the funny decision to keep Judi Dench... but let her play a different M from before). A new start with all-new actors (to the franchise) is easier to comprehend for the audience than trying to having to rearrange familiar faces to fit a new situation.

    A very big +1.

    I don’t want to see Ralph Fiennes return— the M whose little side project was responsible for killing the last Bond.

    Clean slate all the way. Give the new guy his own M, Q, Moneypenny and Tanner (when/if they’re needed for the story (I’d almost think one could amalgamate Tanner and Moneypenny at this point).
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,028
    peter wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I haven't looked into this thread for a while but after reading up a bit I still think that a "clean slate" approach would be the best, and would like to raise this once more. This is not taking anything away from those actors who filled the roles so far, who did a great job. But unlike before nobody can pretend that the next Bond is just a continuation of the last one (ok, I know they didn't with Craig, but they made the funny decision to keep Judi Dench... but let her play a different M from before). A new start with all-new actors (to the franchise) is easier to comprehend for the audience than trying to having to rearrange familiar faces to fit a new situation.

    A very big +1.

    I don’t want to see Ralph Fiennes return— the M whose little side project was responsible for killing the last Bond.

    Clean slate all the way. Give the new guy his own M, Q, Moneypenny and Tanner (when/if they’re needed for the story (I’d almost think one could amalgamate Tanner and Moneypenny at this point).

    Well, yes, but I think that Tanner is sort of secondary. People expect M, Moneypenny and Q besides 007, but most outside of this board won't even know Tanner. It probably took even me until the 2000s (more than thirty years after watching my first Bond movie, and about 25 years after reading my first Fleming novel) to become aware of someone named Tanner. Sorry for him, but he's a bit nondescript. So let's stick with a new approach to Moneypenny. Not as square as Lois, but less aggressively feminist than Samantha Bond. But she should be around, or people (including me :-) ) would be disappointed.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    peter wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I haven't looked into this thread for a while but after reading up a bit I still think that a "clean slate" approach would be the best, and would like to raise this once more. This is not taking anything away from those actors who filled the roles so far, who did a great job. But unlike before nobody can pretend that the next Bond is just a continuation of the last one (ok, I know they didn't with Craig, but they made the funny decision to keep Judi Dench... but let her play a different M from before). A new start with all-new actors (to the franchise) is easier to comprehend for the audience than trying to having to rearrange familiar faces to fit a new situation.

    A very big +1.

    I don’t want to see Ralph Fiennes return— the M whose little side project was responsible for killing the last Bond.

    Clean slate all the way. Give the new guy his own M, Q, Moneypenny and Tanner (when/if they’re needed for the story (I’d almost think one could amalgamate Tanner and Moneypenny at this point).

    I agree with you. Having a secretary seems so retro...I'd rather she be some sort of trusted advisor to M.
  • Posts: 4,139
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I haven't looked into this thread for a while but after reading up a bit I still think that a "clean slate" approach would be the best, and would like to raise this once more. This is not taking anything away from those actors who filled the roles so far, who did a great job. But unlike before nobody can pretend that the next Bond is just a continuation of the last one (ok, I know they didn't with Craig, but they made the funny decision to keep Judi Dench... but let her play a different M from before). A new start with all-new actors (to the franchise) is easier to comprehend for the audience than trying to having to rearrange familiar faces to fit a new situation.

    A very big +1.

    I don’t want to see Ralph Fiennes return— the M whose little side project was responsible for killing the last Bond.

    Clean slate all the way. Give the new guy his own M, Q, Moneypenny and Tanner (when/if they’re needed for the story (I’d almost think one could amalgamate Tanner and Moneypenny at this point).

    Well, yes, but I think that Tanner is sort of secondary. People expect M, Moneypenny and Q besides 007, but most outside of this board won't even know Tanner. It probably took even me until the 2000s (more than thirty years after watching my first Bond movie, and about 25 years after reading my first Fleming novel) to become aware of someone named Tanner. Sorry for him, but he's a bit nondescript. So let's stick with a new approach to Moneypenny. Not as square as Lois, but less aggressively feminist than Samantha Bond. But she should be around, or people (including me :-) ) would be disappointed.

    I think Tanner could be very interesting depending on how they approach him. He's relegated to being an inconsequential (but sometimes interesting) side character in the films, but I like the idea of a character who's Bond's best friend in the Service. He's a man in the novels who I can imagine being not unlike Bond in his younger years, having now settled down with a wife/family and a consistent desk job. I think you can do something interesting with such a character (maybe him and Bond could confer behind M's back like Q and Bond do in films like SP. Nothing too elaborate, maybe just have Tanner cover for Bond etc). Just depends on the story/what they want to do.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 15 Posts: 16,382
    Ben Whishaw was being interviewed on the telly this morning and said he'd be happy to return as Q, although he didn't expect to.
    I thought he was great and would be happy to see him back, but I can see why they would probably make a fresh start.
    007HallY wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I haven't looked into this thread for a while but after reading up a bit I still think that a "clean slate" approach would be the best, and would like to raise this once more. This is not taking anything away from those actors who filled the roles so far, who did a great job. But unlike before nobody can pretend that the next Bond is just a continuation of the last one (ok, I know they didn't with Craig, but they made the funny decision to keep Judi Dench... but let her play a different M from before). A new start with all-new actors (to the franchise) is easier to comprehend for the audience than trying to having to rearrange familiar faces to fit a new situation.

    A very big +1.

    I don’t want to see Ralph Fiennes return— the M whose little side project was responsible for killing the last Bond.

    Clean slate all the way. Give the new guy his own M, Q, Moneypenny and Tanner (when/if they’re needed for the story (I’d almost think one could amalgamate Tanner and Moneypenny at this point).

    Well, yes, but I think that Tanner is sort of secondary. People expect M, Moneypenny and Q besides 007, but most outside of this board won't even know Tanner. It probably took even me until the 2000s (more than thirty years after watching my first Bond movie, and about 25 years after reading my first Fleming novel) to become aware of someone named Tanner. Sorry for him, but he's a bit nondescript. So let's stick with a new approach to Moneypenny. Not as square as Lois, but less aggressively feminist than Samantha Bond. But she should be around, or people (including me :-) ) would be disappointed.

    I think Tanner could be very interesting depending on how they approach him. He's relegated to being an inconsequential (but sometimes interesting) side character in the films, but I like the idea of a character who's Bond's best friend in the Service. He's a man in the novels who I can imagine being not unlike Bond in his younger years, having now settled down with a wife/family and a consistent desk job. I think you can do something interesting with such a character (maybe him and Bond could confer behind M's back like Q and Bond do in films like SP. Nothing too elaborate, maybe just have Tanner cover for Bond etc). Just depends on the story/what they want to do.

    I like the book Tanner, but I can see why Rory Kinnear's character didn't become that: we already had a friend character for Bond in Felix (probably the most convincing version of their friendship we've seen so far), and Moneypenny became Bond's confidante and ally inside MI6, which didn't leave much of Tanner's role in the books to be carried to screen.
    They could adapt the book version, although I must admit I probably kind of prefer Moneypenny in that role.
  • Posts: 4,139
    mtm wrote: »
    Ben Whishaw was being interviewed on the telly this morning and said he'd be happy to return as Q, although he didn't expect to.
    I thought he was great and would be happy to see him back, but I can see why they would probably make a fresh start.
    007HallY wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I haven't looked into this thread for a while but after reading up a bit I still think that a "clean slate" approach would be the best, and would like to raise this once more. This is not taking anything away from those actors who filled the roles so far, who did a great job. But unlike before nobody can pretend that the next Bond is just a continuation of the last one (ok, I know they didn't with Craig, but they made the funny decision to keep Judi Dench... but let her play a different M from before). A new start with all-new actors (to the franchise) is easier to comprehend for the audience than trying to having to rearrange familiar faces to fit a new situation.

    A very big +1.

    I don’t want to see Ralph Fiennes return— the M whose little side project was responsible for killing the last Bond.

    Clean slate all the way. Give the new guy his own M, Q, Moneypenny and Tanner (when/if they’re needed for the story (I’d almost think one could amalgamate Tanner and Moneypenny at this point).

    Well, yes, but I think that Tanner is sort of secondary. People expect M, Moneypenny and Q besides 007, but most outside of this board won't even know Tanner. It probably took even me until the 2000s (more than thirty years after watching my first Bond movie, and about 25 years after reading my first Fleming novel) to become aware of someone named Tanner. Sorry for him, but he's a bit nondescript. So let's stick with a new approach to Moneypenny. Not as square as Lois, but less aggressively feminist than Samantha Bond. But she should be around, or people (including me :-) ) would be disappointed.

    I think Tanner could be very interesting depending on how they approach him. He's relegated to being an inconsequential (but sometimes interesting) side character in the films, but I like the idea of a character who's Bond's best friend in the Service. He's a man in the novels who I can imagine being not unlike Bond in his younger years, having now settled down with a wife/family and a consistent desk job. I think you can do something interesting with such a character (maybe him and Bond could confer behind M's back like Q and Bond do in films like SP. Nothing too elaborate, maybe just have Tanner cover for Bond etc). Just depends on the story/what they want to do.

    I like the book Tanner, but I can see why Rory Kinnear's character didn't become that: we already had a friend character for Bond in Felix (probably the most convincing version of their friendship we've seen so far), and Moneypenny became Bond's confidante and ally inside MI6, which didn't leave much of Tanner's role in the books to be carried to screen.
    They could adapt the book version, although I must admit I probably kind of prefer Moneypenny in that role.

    Yeah, it really depends on what they want to do. I think it'd be quite fresh seeing Bond confer with a version of Tanner who's a bit more an older mirror image of Bond now with a desk job. I'm fine regardless as long as whatever they do works and they get some solid actors in.
  • The main benefit to Tanner comes outside the service to be honest. Even in the Fleming novels we barely get hints at his administrative importance. We sort of just get the sense that they're good friends that have lunch every so often. I think potentially that's best tapped into by Colonel Sun where they start out by playing golf.

    It is quite difficult to find a place for both Tanner and Moneypenny in a modern organisation without any overlap. Even in the literary world I think Kim Sherwood couldn't be bothered with having them both so she wrote off Tanner.

    I think what probably makes the most sense is that one processes interior reports from London and is a go-between to Whitehall and other intelligence sources and the other deals with exterior stations and stations from there. Who gets what doesn't really matter, and I suppose in a movie nobody has time for those details
  • Posts: 1,985
    Since we're getting a new Bond (someday), let's go with a slate of new, unfamiliar actors. There's no question there's many familiar actors who could step into these roles, but roll the dice. Let's have actors we don't know well from previous roles.

  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited September 16 Posts: 2,016
    Yeah. If the film is great, the new faces become stars...because whenever the greatness of the film is remembered, people see their faces. So when getting new actors, the focus should be making a great film...not worrying that the actors are new faces. So being a Bond film, I'm very sure Bond 26 is going to be superb...so yeah, new faces it is. I would have loved the old faces, but we all know why they can't return.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    There's only so many actors in the UK and you want to get really good ones. Of the last batch Rory Kinnear was maybe the least famous of the bunch, but even he was hardly an unknown and a pretty successful actor even then. Or Tobias Menzies before him, similar situation (I remember being really pleased to see him in fact, I don't think I knew he was in it until I saw it) - I'm happy for them to stick to people of that sort of level, experienced character actors.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Very glad he's casting more doubt on him (and likely everyone else) returning. A new era deserves a new cast.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,423
    We should add that back in the 70s and 80s it wasn't common for a character to be played by multiple actors. Look at the difficulty The Pink Panther series had after Sellers passing. In that case the supporting team can be a way to signal to the audience that this is the same character and same series.

    Nowadays we have swung to a place where continuity is the bees knees. This will mean that EON has an interesting choice to make. Bring back the gang and they inhabit the same character we saw with a new guy. OR they recast the lot and have everyone be new for the new "timeline" or "universe".

    Personally I would not throw out the baby with the bath water and I would happily bring them all back. The ones that are most crucial would be M and Moneypenny. A new Q and Tanner aren't the end of the world if those actors pass.

    I would prefer a return to the privacy of these characters. It always felt thrilling in OHMSS when we saw M's house. We have now seen these characters domestically and to me that ruins the mystery a bit.

  • Posts: 1,985
    @the dove -- Throw out the baby, the water, and the tub. EON was happy to kill off Bond and Leiter, so get rid of them all.

    In NTTD Bond and Felix were older than the rest except for M. Next go around Bond and Felix will be younger than the same supporting cast. And in real life, those actors themselves will be quite a bit older, emphasizing even more the absurdity of the casting.

    Does it matter? No. But it also doesn't make sense. It'll be like that dream season on Dallas. The Craig years simply won't have existed. These won't be the same characters because they never existed.

    The PTS will open with a gorgeous woman in the shower. A naked Bond will step in to join to her. She'll turn and for a second with a look of shock followed by a smile of relief.

    Bond: Something the matter?
    Girl: I had this crazy dream that you were gone.
    Bond: Here I am. In the flesh.

    Cue Music.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 17 Posts: 16,382
    Chatting to Number24 elsewhere, and they had the good thought that MI6 could be shaken up a bit: Moneypenny becomes the head of the 00 section, and thus Bond's direct boss, with M as the head of SIS, and Moneypenny and M's relationship kind of becomes like M and the Minister of Defence in the 70s and 80s, with M perhaps present but not in direct charge. Because M is supposed to be the director of this massive intelligence agency, so he shouldn't really be directly briefing field officers, no matter how important their jobs- they should have direct managers and commanders. It's a bit like the commissioner of the Met police directly telling a load of DIs who to catch on the streets- just wouldn't happen.
    I quite like that idea, could freshen it up a bit and also make M seem a bit grander and more important.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    edited September 17 Posts: 942
    mtm wrote: »
    Chatting to Number24 elsewhere, and they had the good thought that MI6 could be shaken up a bit: Moneypenny becomes the head of the 00 section, and thus Bond's direct boss, with M as the head of SIS, and Moneypenny and M's relationship kind of becomes like M and the Minister of Defence in the 70s and 80s, with M perhaps present but not in direct charge. Because M is supposed to be the director of this massive intelligence agency, so he shouldn't really be directly briefing field officers, no matter how important their jobs- they should have direct managers and commanders. It's a bit like the commissioner of the Met police directly telling a load of DIs who to catch on the streets- just wouldn't happen.
    I quite like that idea, could freshen it up a bit and also make M seem a bit grander and more important.
    That’s similar to how things are in the late 70’s/early 80’s ITV series The Sandbaggers. ‘C’ is the Director General of SIS, but never talks to field agents. The agents report to the Director of Operations, who usually reports to the Deputy Director of SIS, who then reports to ‘C’.

    That show was as much about the political manoeuvring in the corridors of power as it was about the fieldwork. For Bond I imagine Fleming streamlined the power structure to make for faster plots. I don’t know how much Whitehall internal struggles are desirable in a big Bond film. I mean, I myself like that stuff, but it’s generally not what Bond is about.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 19 Posts: 3,152
    Although, in SP, M identifies himself to the Anti-Terrorist copper on Westminster Bridge as 'Mallory, 00 Section' - which implies that in the Craig films he's exactly that: the head of the small 00 Section, not the head of MI6. The boss of just nine 00 agents would deal with those agents personally, no?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 19 Posts: 16,382
    I don't think I caught that, that's a good point.
    I think I do remember thinking it's odd that a copper would have heard of it!
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 19 Posts: 3,152
    mtm wrote: »
    I think I do remember thinking it's odd that a copper would have heard of it!
    Which is also a good point!
  • Posts: 15,116
    Venutius wrote: »
    Although, in SP, M identifies himself to the Anti-Terrorist copper on Westminster Bridge as 'Mallory, 00 Section' - which implies that in the Craig films he's exactly that: the head of the small 00 Section, not the head of MI6. The boss of just nine 00 agents would deal with those agents personally, no?

    I always understood it as he's giving a middle finger to Blofeld, as SPECTRE's plot included the disbanding of the 00 section. He could have identified himself as head of MI6, of SIS, or whatever title he earned. But he is using this one. Malory is humiliating Blofeld, in effect. Which personally I quite liked it, personally.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    While I quite like that idea, I don't think Blofeld was in earshot of that particular line. Mallory does indeed recite the Terrorism Act at him, though.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,629
    While I quite like that idea, I don't think Blofeld was in earshot of that particular line. Mallory does indeed recite the Terrorism Act at him, though.

    When Mallory tells Blofeld the Terrorism Act, it feels like a epic moment. One of my favorite M moments in any Bond story. Certainly Mallory’s best moment as M for me.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    Yeah, I know people go on about 'scooby gang', but I like M and Q and Moneypenny having their little moments of victory, I find it enjoyable.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,629
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah, I know people go on about 'scooby gang', but I like M and Q and Moneypenny having their little moments of victory, I find it enjoyable.

    Same here. We haven't gotten any miscasts or too poor of writing for them over the years.
  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    Very glad he's casting more doubt on him (and likely everyone else) returning. A new era deserves a new cast.

    But that has never happened in the franchise. There's always been a carry over and I think it's generally a good idea.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    JamesStock wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Very glad he's casting more doubt on him (and likely everyone else) returning. A new era deserves a new cast.

    But that has never happened in the franchise. There's always been a carry over and I think it's generally a good idea.

    They have never killed James Bond before. It may be the safest route to have a clean slate. No confusion. No wondering if this is supposed to be the same Bond who was killed, but now he’s back with the same M, or the same Q or Moneypenny.

    Whoever takes over deserves no ties to the previous era that saw the death of Bond.
  • RikRik Southend
    Posts: 68
    For me, because of the lengthy gap between movies, I feel for the future of the film series that an all new cast will be needed for Bond 26.
  • mtm wrote: »
    Chatting to Number24 elsewhere, and they had the good thought that MI6 could be shaken up a bit: Moneypenny becomes the head of the 00 section, and thus Bond's direct boss, with M as the head of SIS, and Moneypenny and M's relationship kind of becomes like M and the Minister of Defence in the 70s and 80s, with M perhaps present but not in direct charge. Because M is supposed to be the director of this massive intelligence agency, so he shouldn't really be directly briefing field officers, no matter how important their jobs- they should have direct managers and commanders. It's a bit like the commissioner of the Met police directly telling a load of DIs who to catch on the streets- just wouldn't happen.
    I quite like that idea, could freshen it up a bit and also make M seem a bit grander and more important.
    I do feel Moneypenny's role needs to be shaken up somehow because the secretary / personal assistant thing gets too repetitive for me.

    SF had the right idea making her a field agent but she eventually regressed into her original role. Which don't get me wrong worked as a character arc for her in the movie, but afterwards its not as interesting.

    Or at least otherwise merge Tanner and Moneypenny into one character so they are in charge of giving the exposition dump to Bond.
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