Should we get a new M / Q / Moneypenny for BOND 26 and beyond ?

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    Yeah, having her in on the briefings makes sense.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    I think SF had the right area but in the precisely wrong direction...she could have started at a desk and progressed to a field agent. The way it plays out feels retrograde and dismissive.

    Tanner is unnecessary and meaningless to the average Bond viewer. M, Moneypenny, and Q on the other hand are expected (although I think CR and QoS did fine without them).

    I'm still amazed 16 years later that they used Quantum of Solace as a title. Perhaps the bravest title choice Eon has ever made. Second bravest was swapping out For Your Eyes Only for Moonraker.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,789
    With titles there's Octopussy.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited September 28 Posts: 4,629
    mtm wrote: »
    Chatting to Number24 elsewhere, and they had the good thought that MI6 could be shaken up a bit: Moneypenny becomes the head of the 00 section, and thus Bond's direct boss, with M as the head of SIS, and Moneypenny and M's relationship kind of becomes like M and the Minister of Defence in the 70s and 80s, with M perhaps present but not in direct charge. Because M is supposed to be the director of this massive intelligence agency, so he shouldn't really be directly briefing field officers, no matter how important their jobs- they should have direct managers and commanders. It's a bit like the commissioner of the Met police directly telling a load of DIs who to catch on the streets- just wouldn't happen.
    I quite like that idea, could freshen it up a bit and also make M seem a bit grander and more important.
    I do feel Moneypenny's role needs to be shaken up somehow because the secretary / personal assistant thing gets too repetitive for me.

    SF had the right idea making her a field agent but she eventually regressed into her original role. Which don't get me wrong worked as a character arc for her in the movie, but afterwards its not as interesting.

    Or at least otherwise merge Tanner and Moneypenny into one character so they are in charge of giving the exposition dump to Bond.

    I like that idea. I know that Kim Sherwood made Moneypenny as M in her books. She also got rid of Tanner somewhat controversially. In the same idea that EON had for him in SP. SF worked well in her favor. I wish that she would have had more action in SP and NTTD.
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah, having her in on the briefings makes sense.

    Yes, she does work for the government. Let's just hope EON doesn't overdo the MI6 family again. It honestly could hurt the impact IF Charmian Bond and May are introduced.
    echo wrote: »
    I think SF had the right area but in the precisely wrong direction...she could have started at a desk and progressed to a field agent. The way it plays out feels retrograde and dismissive.

    Tanner is unnecessary and meaningless to the average Bond viewer. M, Moneypenny, and Q on the other hand are expected (although I think CR and QoS did fine without them).

    I'm still amazed 16 years later that they used Quantum of Solace as a title. Perhaps the bravest title choice Eon has ever made. Second bravest was swapping out For Your Eyes Only for Moonraker.

    Tanner would be the sacrifice of the MI6 team. It will be a while before EON kills M (again). I'd be surprised if they kill off Q or Moneypenny any time soon. If EON wants a traitor in MI6 again, just use Alec Trevelyan. Just use a multi-film story arc, or use him as Bond's mentor, like in the original draft of Goldeneye.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    With titles there's Octopussy.

    Good point. Octopussy was in the go-go early '80s before cultural conservatism really took hold.

    I don't think you'd get that title and songs like Make It Last All Night in a Bond film now. Even Dirty Love would seem a bit risque.

    Ah, the '80s.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,028
    echo wrote: »
    Tanner is unnecessary and meaningless to the average Bond viewer. M, Moneypenny, and Q on the other hand are expected (although I think CR and QoS did fine without them).
    I was just about to applaud you for this but then noticed that I had written basically the same thing a couple of weeks ago. No wonder I liked yours.
  • edited September 28 Posts: 4,139
    I personally wouldn't want them to shake things up too much when it comes to these characters. Not to say that M, Q, and Moneypenny haven't evolved at all in terms of personality throughout the years - Llewelyn's Q alone went from being a grumpy old schoolmaster type into an eccentric tinkerer by his later films. Lee's M as well switched from being a more fatherly figure to a more tetchy one dependent on the director.

    That said I do think what these characters do in Bond's fictional MI6 - the jobs they perform, their seniority level etc - has a huge impact on the dynamics we come to expect in a Bond film. Making Moneypenny the head of the 00 section, for example, I think would fundamentally change the dynamic between her and Bond. The fun of the Moneypenny/Bond interactions is the mutual flirting. There's an underlying sense it's all fun and games and not to be acted upon, but it's always there regardless of whether Moneypenny has a more active role in the film's plot, or if she's more feisty with Bond. It works in part because she's an assistant. She's not Bond's superior, and Bond can talk to her like a fellow co-worker in that way. In the Craig era it even meant he could confide in her about going behind M's back. A big part of Moneypenny's savviness in the films too comes from her job role too. She's believably reliable at getting Bond information, or subtly pulling strings (ie. when she prevents Bond from resigning in OHMSS, or getting Q involved in LTK). With her as Bond's boss it's not quite the same.
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Tanner is unnecessary and meaningless to the average Bond viewer. M, Moneypenny, and Q on the other hand are expected (although I think CR and QoS did fine without them).
    I was just about to applaud you for this but then noticed that I had written basically the same thing a couple of weeks ago. No wonder I liked yours.

    I really hope one day we get a good Tanner. There's so much potential for the character that the films have never quite managed to capitalise on (ie. the fact that he's basically a slightly older version of Bond who's decided to take a desk job, and is his best friend in the Service).
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited September 28 Posts: 6,296
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Tanner is unnecessary and meaningless to the average Bond viewer. M, Moneypenny, and Q on the other hand are expected (although I think CR and QoS did fine without them).
    I was just about to applaud you for this but then noticed that I had written basically the same thing a couple of weeks ago. No wonder I liked yours.

    +1. LOL. Turtles all the way down.
    007HallY wrote: »
    I really hope one day we get a good Tanner. There's so much potential for the character that the films have never quite managed to capitalise on (ie. the fact that he's basically a slightly older version of Bond who's decided to take a desk job, and is his best friend in the Service).

    I doubt that we're going to get a lot of Tanner development going forward because he keeps the story at MI6 and not at some exotic international setting.

    If it was early days in the series, I could see them setting the stage for meaningful development for Tanner, but now with M, Moneypenny, and Q firmly entrenched in Bond history, that's unlikely.

    This is why Tanner is often relegated to exposition bot (or mole in the ill-advised SP script). And even in GE, arguably (?) Tanner's greatest moment, his character is basically only there to delineate the relationship between the new M and Bond and explain the satellites.

    Somehow they did it with Frederick Gray in the Moore era. Maybe they'll pull off a similar feat with Tanner if he has exceptional chemistry with M and Bond (again, Gray). But I doubt it. We'll see more M/Moneypenny/Q rather than a ton of Tanner.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited September 28 Posts: 5,970
    As others have mentioned before, myself included, it would be more beneficial to the MI6 regulars and the story itself, to do away with Bill Tanner this time round, especially for a character like Moneypenny, who could easily fill the role and audiences would be more interested in seeing her.

    It made sense when we didn't have Q or Moneypenny but now we more than likely will, there's no need for a Tanner. I also think Tanner was kept around in the Craig-era for the sake of Rory Kinnear.
  • edited September 28 Posts: 4,139
    echo wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Tanner is unnecessary and meaningless to the average Bond viewer. M, Moneypenny, and Q on the other hand are expected (although I think CR and QoS did fine without them).
    I was just about to applaud you for this but then noticed that I had written basically the same thing a couple of weeks ago. No wonder I liked yours.

    +1. LOL. Turtles all the way down.
    007HallY wrote: »
    I really hope one day we get a good Tanner. There's so much potential for the character that the films have never quite managed to capitalise on (ie. the fact that he's basically a slightly older version of Bond who's decided to take a desk job, and is his best friend in the Service).

    I doubt that we're going to get a lot of Tanner development going forward because he keeps the story at MI6 and not at some exotic international setting.

    If it was early days in the series, I could see them setting the stage for meaningful development for Tanner, but now with M, Moneypenny, and Q firmly entrenched in Bond history, that's unlikely.

    This is why Tanner is often relegated to exposition bot (or mole in the ill-advised SP script). And even in GE, arguably (?) Tanner's greatest moment, his character is basically only there to delineate the relationship between the new M and Bond and explain the satellites.

    Somehow they did it with Frederick Gray in the Moore era. Maybe they'll pull off a similar feat with Tanner if he has exceptional chemistry with M and Bond (again, Gray). But I doubt it. We'll see more M/Moneypenny/Q rather than a ton of Tanner.

    I was never a fan of Gray. I'm not quite sure why he was kept throughout the Moore era honestly (I think M/Bond briefing scenes work better when it's only them, or at least with people who are more on Bond's side. It gives the sense of the mission being secret and 'eyes only' with less or select people in the room. When there's this old man sitting in the corner constantly battering on about MI6's reputation in the international community and flapping his jowl about, usually somewhat at odds with Bond/M, it's not quite the same).

    It really depends on what they want to do. They could do something like Horowitz's Forever and A Day or even Fleming's books where we get a brief scene of Tanner and M discussing what to do/eventually deciding to send Bond in (perhaps there's some sort of conflict there - perhaps he doesn't think Bond should go on the mission/is sceptical he'll succeed, while M thinks he's the man for the job. Again, that's something you see in Fleming's novels). There's a nice sense of Bond/Tanner's history in Horrowitz's book as well that if briefly hinted at could be interesting.

    I can imagine them wanting to use Tanner and do something different. M's a prominent role but Moneypenny and Q are a bit limited usually in what they do, and Bond films are often overstuffed with MI6 side characters anyway who do little (but relevant) things for the plot.
    Denbigh wrote: »
    As others have mentioned before, myself included, it would be more beneficial to the MI6 regulars and the story itself, to do away with Bill Tanner this time round, especially for a character like Moneypenny, who could easily fill the role and audiences would be more interested in seeing her.

    It made sense when we didn't have Q or Moneypenny but now we more than likely will, there's no need for a Tanner. I also think Tanner was kept around in the Craig-era for the sake of Rory Kinnear.

    I don't think the problem with Kinnear's Tanner was his inclusion. It was that he had to work with a dull interpretation of the character who was only there to replace some other guy in the previous film (who himself wasn't very interesting - was his name Vickers or Villers or something?) Kinnear's an excellent actor incidentally, but there really wasn't anything to his Tanner, and his strengths as an actor weren't quite utilised.

    Like I said, Bond films are often stuffed with MI6 side characters and they don't need to have a whole lot of importance in the grand scheme of things. They just have to be interesting or have good chemistry with Bond, or even just add something intangible to those early MI6 scenes. I mean, is Charles Robinson in the Brosnan era necessary in the strictest sense? Not at all, and if you were cutting characters in the scripts he'd be the first to go. But having Colin Salmon around adds this bit of legitimacy to the situations in some weird way. He's younger, looks the part of a 'man of action' in the situation room, and even just him communicating details about missiles over the radio in the TND PTS adds tension. I think there's a reason why he was included in TWINE alongside Tanner even when it wasn't necessary. Heck, I'd say Salmon isn't as good an actor as Michael Kitchen, and yet he comes off as a sort of upgrade of Kitchen's Tanner. It's because of Salmon's presence.

    Make a more interesting Tanner with a bit more of a personal connection/friendship with Bond who adds something that the others don't, and of course cast a good, memorable actor, and it'll work. Again, it's just about what they want to do.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Sony/MGM suggested dropping Tanner from SP and giving his scenes to MP. Obviously, EON didn't go for it. I can see how it would work either way.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,646
    Moneypenny should be an agent working for Bond within MI6. That could be a lot of fun in a conspiracy plot. M. orders Bond to investigate within MI6 off the books and rely on Moneypenny for access to various parts as M.s personal secretary etc.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited October 8 Posts: 4,629
    Due to EON and their heavier use of the MI6 and my usual writing of ensemble casts, here's my opinions. On who could play the recurring regulars in a three-four-five arc. If EON gave me a bit of creative control, don't judge me!

    James Bond: Asa Butterfield (year two type of Bond)
    M: Emily Blunt (would be able to handle herself in action, pure trust in Bond, just occasionally nitpicking on certain things)
    Q: Phoebe Waller-Bridge (would be kidnapped by SPECTRE and use her tech skills to escape)
    Moneypenny: Hayley Atwell (mix of agent and secretary)
    Mary Goodnight: Anya Taylor-Joy (a bit ditzy, but still compliant enough to handle herself)
    Loelia Ponsonby: Rachel Weisz (full time MI6 secretary, openly cares for Bond)
    Felix Leiter: Alden Ehrenreich (he would get in on the action, not just defending Bond and giving him information)
    Bill Tanner: Robert Pattinson (once again, he could be in on the action, great with sleath)
    Alec Trevelyan: Andrew Garfield (more a mentor, than a peer, built up his betrayal over two movies, at least)
    Dr. No: Michael Shannon (a mad scientist, with a different science to make his own)
    Irma Bunt: Diane Lane (she's wanted to play a villain, who better? Maybe a mentor for Blofeld. Army General at one point)
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: Tom Hiddleston (a calm version of Blofeld, yet could handle himself physically. Acting career, which helps with his changes)
    Joanne Brochet/Sixtine: Saoirse Ronan (same as she is in the Forever and a Day Book. Bond is sad when she dies, but doesn't feel the need to advantage her)
    Charmian Bond: Felicity Jones (tough, mostly as written in the Young Bond books. She lives to the end of the overall movie story arc)
    May: Olivia Colman (same as the books, an occasional quip or two towards Bond's lifestyle)
    Auric Goldfinger: Russell Crowe (loves diamonds as much as gold, banker as much as businessman)
    Felicity Willing: Winona Ryder (mostly the same plot as the book. Known to be evil from the beginning)

    This was fun to make, this could be a unique cast for a decade, at least. But then again, I'm not in charge of EON!
  • Posts: 1,985
    If the next Bond film is the reboot, the reinvention for today's younger audiences, why hang on to the old supporting cast? Do those actors mean anything to the audience the film is meant to appeal to? Wouldn't keeping them really be for an older audience nostalgic for the Craig era?
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