No Time To Die - Safin's Plot (Spoilers!)

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  • Posts: 1,630
    That Bond mashup is BRILLIANT !
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    The YOLT one is even better.
  • Posts: 1,630
    As I recall in the early days of Bond 25 coming together, there was talk of using the title SHATTERHAND...and plenty of jokes ensued. Too bad, for me, at least, as I always liked that alias for You Know Who. So there was some indication that the story of this film might have something along the Garden-of-Death lines and a deadly final confrontation between Bond and the villain, in that location. Later, we get to see Safin, wearing something indicating that Dr. No and he like the same tailor, and in a large room with -- please recall the great sets in DN -- large circles and smooth concrete -- very DN-ish. It seems the film might throw together DN aspects with YOLT elements. All quite well and good.

    HOWEVER -- once again it seems the more overwhelming influence comes from Bond Spoof films, and I find this downright OFFENSIVE. If that's what your script writer comes up with pay their severance and send them off ! We ALREADY had "the villain is your brother" ripped from Austin Powers. Now we seem to be getting a strong dose of the villainous plot from the first Kingsmen film with the bio-whatever-human-bombs-massive-numbers-of-the-human-race-die-off-by-remote-trigger plot. REALLY ? Will Bond 26 concern weather control and an island of women, a la In Like Flint ? Shall we turn to a Matt Helm film for plot after that one ? Good Grief ! The Mission:Impossible films are eating Bond's lunch, merely by not borrowing from spoofs, and then, of course, by including fantastic action set-pieces that outdo Bond film after film lately ! Am I annoyed ? Yes ! This is so unoriginal and sad !

    That having been said I am sure I will like the new film very much, though, at this point, I feel as though I've seen it.
  • Posts: 316
    Pure speculation, BUT we don't know if the interrogation scene with Blofeld takes place before or after the Hammersmith chat.
    don't think Bond kills Blofeld, anyway when in the first trailer Tanner says 'if you feel yourself loosing control' we've always thought it was a reference to Madeleine appearing.
    What if he was referring to biological weapon spread in Cuba and the possible effects of Bond killing him?
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Before I’d say.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,584
    Ludovico wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    One of the issues for writers when dealing with viruses is that the audience needs to see it, both to visualise the threat and to identify the characters that are infected. So some sort of side effect (ie the hands) makes perfect sense in terms of the writing.

    Mauve it's a poison and not a virus. I can't remember who mentioned it ,in this thread or elsewhere.
    That may have been me. The prop vial I saw with red liquid inside was described as a 'poison serum' - but please don't take that as conclusive of what the substance actually is, I'm just passing on what I saw.

    Example of the vial here:

    https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51421572288_8de2c225d0_o.png
  • NTTD is positively drowning in plot and much of the convoluted ideas didn't really come into focus until a second viewing. The simple issue is that Heracles is just silly spy movie nonsense. The internal logic surrounding the device are confusing and illogical. It's a bit daft and feels more like something from a Mission Impossible or Marvel film - perhaps too fantastical for the Craig-era. I cannot fault them for thinking that a global pandemic was a more interesting device than the villain having an atomic bomb or whatever (it's way more timely than we would have thought), but the instantaneous and corny way people died was a bit lame.

    Did anyone else knowingly wince at the moment they were talking about the poison in M's office? I mean we were sitting in cinemas full of people! Kinda awkward.....

    awkward.gif
  • Also.....Can someone help me understand something plot related?

    How did Safin get the scars? I assumed that Safin got them from being shot by Madeleine. However, a family member watched the film and said that Safin was scared due to being poison by Mr White. This family member presumed Safin had some kinda special powers to survive as a result?

    I'm confused.
    9309db29e3ab5ce2d27d169e9668be944096bd26.gifv
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    He survived Mr. White’s poisoning but he ended up disfigured.
    Heracles was a pretty good idea. The notion of people involuntary carrying a deathly weapon is extremely cool and powerful and the fact that in the beginning it was developed by M makes it even cooler.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    I was quite surprised by the plot. For a while, before No Time To Die's release I've been working on a complete rewrite of Spectre, with completely new ideas and characters, and a DNA-specific virus was on the cards as the villain's plot for a while.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,007
    For all the talk I've read about Safin being a weak villain, for me he was one of the stand outs in the film. Rami Malek is a riveting actor.

    The villains plot is very sci-fi and a bit silly to be fair, but it serves its purpose I suppose.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Science fiction or science speculation? I dare say that much of the science in NTTD is within n reach. The franchise has dabbled in this from it’s outset.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 4,409
    matt_u wrote: »
    He survived Mr. White’s poisoning but he ended up disfigured.
    Heracles was a pretty good idea. The notion of people involuntary carrying a deathly weapon is extremely cool and powerful and the fact that in the beginning it was developed by M makes it even cooler.

    Thank you for explaining.

    https://www.esquire.com/uk/style/a37784135/no-time-to-die-safins-mask-explained/

    This article explains that Safin's family were killed by Mr White through mass dioxin poisoning. However, I totally missed the part of the plot which explained that dioxin was used. It appears that Madeleine informs Bond that Safin's family made poisons for Spectre, but Mr white killed the family. Only Safin survived and the poisoning scarred his face. It seems that since then that Mr White has been keeping tabs on the young Safin. Perhaps if he was planning to return.....But I assume Madeleine has been scared her whole life that Safin may return to embark his final revenge for his family's death and kill her.

    Rami-Malek-Safin-Madeleine-Swann-007-no-time-to-die.jpg

    For all the talk I've read about Safin being a weak villain, for me he was one of the stand outs in the film. Rami Malek is a riveting actor.

    The villains plot is very sci-fi and a bit silly to be fair, but it serves its purpose I suppose.

    I'm minded to agree. However, we are currently living in a world where a very infectious virus has killed a lot of people. We have been told to not socially interact with people to keep the infection rate down, etc. If this film had come out pre-pandeic, it may have seemed even more far-fetched.

    I am curious though, since Bond was in close contact with M, Q, Moneypenny and Safin, is it safe to assume that they too are infected with the strain of Heracles that is lethal to all Spectre agents and Blofeld? Does this mean they pose a risk of spreading the contagion to others whose DNA makes them genetically predisposed to die from Heracles? Does this mean Safin's plan succeeded as strains of Heracles are out in the world?

    Also, who was Safin going to target with Heracles? He wanted to make 'the world a better place.' He took out all of Spectre, so was it just targeting bad buys and their families? Was it ever explained that he was targeting certain genetic groups? Obruchev did mention targeting ethnic minorities, right?
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 4,409
    I saw this story on BBC News this morning. Perhaps Safin's plot of gene editing isn't all that far-fetched. It seems gene therapies could actually target illnesses. The below story almost reads like science-fiction, but it's true......The quote from the Professor quoted is pretty wild: "[But] if we can control genes and switch them on and off when we want to, then almost anything is possible in terms of treating diseases including Alzheimer's and cancer and everything else."

  • Posts: 15,124
    For all the talk I've read about Safin being a weak villain, for me he was one of the stand outs in the film. Rami Malek is a riveting actor.

    The villains plot is very sci-fi and a bit silly to be fair, but it serves its purpose I suppose.

    I thought it was a bit too sci-fi and deus ex machina too, like a super virus doing whatever the plot required, but it made sense in context. I also thought Safin was a bit absent from the film. Not unlike Dr No actually.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 68
    Saffin’s plot was a lot more menacing than Silva’s (what? Killing M?) . Also people want to bash on NTTD and praise SF but really there were very few plot holes in NTTD if any and there were truck size plot holes in SF! Talk about deus ex machina, the whole Q, subway sequence with Silva reeks of it!!
  • Posts: 15,124
    JazzyBond wrote: »
    Saffin’s plot was a lot more menacing than Silva’s (what? Killing M?) . Also people want to bash on NTTD and praise SF but really there were very few plot holes in NTTD if any and there were truck size plot holes in SF! Talk about deus ex machina, the whole Q, subway sequence with Silva reeks of it!!
    Well, NTTD received overall very positive reviews so I'm wondering who are the "people" you are referring to. I love both movies and while I'll readily agree that SF has plenty of plot holes and contrivances, I don't think it had really deus ex machina per se. Silva however was caricaturally efficient at planning. But that's the problem of many movie these days: they make their villain borderline omniscient.

    That said, as much as I enjoyed NTTD (even when it hurts), I would have liked to know a little bit more about Safin's plan and motivations: why does he want to unleash the virus? Is there someone paying him? What does he want to achieve in the end?
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 68
    Ummm there are many members on our beloved forum that are bashing on NTTD and Safin’s plan. Also deus ex Machina was heavily in SF! What was Silva’s plan, be captured knowing that Q would hack his computer and thus open his cell? Also the stashed officer outfit and the empty subway cart just happens to fall right where Bond fires the gun to stop Silva. A lot of reasoning has to be put on the shelf to believe that was all contrived to go down just like that.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited November 2021 Posts: 4,520
    I was expecting experimental manipulation by Blofeld. Safin going to be lab rat i think used by Blofeld with help of Madeline, but later she changed her own mind and choose Safin side.

    Safrin whant a smaller world and playing for God. That NTTD wil forward as Tomorrow Never Dies was in 1997. That's what i think there mean with The 25th movie wil change everything, but with in mind it is Daniel Craig era and actualy saying nothing wil change / earlier worse.

    Liked idea we mabey get a bit more standalone with Bond must save world, but can't do it alone and whyle Blofeld stil playing his mind game (Reference to OHMSS Blofeld). It turn out save world was include, the much needed Spectre contuned. I am not complete disapointed that Madeline not turn bad.

    What be more dangerious then Spectre. I expect illness spread like virus. Walking time bomb to start another war. Also thanks to earlier hints, also in SF (Man in shaking chair in the maintitle for example, whyle partly i think it was predict to Spectre and trow back to DAD.).

    The-World-Is-Not-Enough-James-Bond-Pierce-Brosnan-Renard-hologram-head.png

    Of course i only have seen NTTD once on this moment. Even for a short time i thinking mabey there give us a middle finger and Daniel Craig will do another one. Other way happend with DAD when finaly in 2004 there confirm Brosnan was out.
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