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And diversity is just a code for "no white people" so there you have it. I don't care what people do with their lives. If women want to work as CEOs, have at it. It's their choice to work themselves to death with 80 hour work weeks like men have done for decades. The problem I have is with studios making the choice to be "woke" with every decision they consider.
A black female Bond has nothing to do with making the story better or what's good for the franchise. It's pandering, pure and simple.
Deny changing global demographics all you want. It won't change them. That's reality.
And Bond is still a white guy. That's reality.
Agreed on both points. But again, the motivation for the change in Bond, combined with the double standard regarding other characters (i.e. Shaft being replaced by a white guy causing riots) is insufferable.
Diversity is not a code for "no white people". There are a number of historically disadvantaged groups. They don't want supremacy over white people, they just want a seat at the table and be listened to. They are merely seeking the same opportunities that are often afforded to a privileged class.
Any concerns you have over inclusivity, speak solely to your own insecurities.
If you have a problem with Hollywood trying to be more inclusive, then don't watch the films they produce. You vote with your money. If enough people feel the same, they will follow suit. Then Hollywood stops as the method isn't producing revenue.
There isn't a black female Bond for f's sake! Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezus, this shtick is getting dull.
Literally, just as much as you hate 'SJWs' and progressiveness - your comments are coming across as hideously ill-informed bile designed to stoke people up. Please read the article on the MI6-HQ website then return.
Oh look: you've got 1,007 posts. That's a good place to leave it I reckon.
Also, if you don't judge these things and you just see diversity, equality and many others as normal, everyday things and reflecting the world we live in, you're not gonna be consciously making these choices, you're just making a story about the world you know and the world you live in.
The only reason a lot of people are angry is because you see this stuff negatively, and you've built it up to the point where if anyone does anything that seems like a change based on diversity and equality, people flip out and that's not the fault of the creators because they're creating their vision and showing the way most people see the world.
If you're angry about this, that's on you, not them and they shouldn't have one their leading actresses dragged through such a crappy, disrespectful media rant about something they haven't even seen. I'm just glad it's happening now rather than when the film comes out. Get it out of your system guys :)
God, I might start going into live debates about this whole thing haha :D
We've also seen her (apparently) undercover in Jamaica, so her ethnic background is actually relevant to the location and story. It doesn't need to be justified, but for those who feel it does, there you go.
And you can't get much more Fleming than Jamaica, so let's not invoke his name again.
This is also a very narrow-minded view of it all. And it doesn't help at all. It just fuels the ongoing fire. There are other factores, such as identification. But listen, I really, really don't want to discuss these things. Not why I come to a Bond forum, you see.
Now, if I can intervene a bit, why don't we keep social, political, racial, heck, philosophical views out of these threads for a while. And focus on the production aspect.
OK? EVERYONE JUST TAKE A CHILL PILL AND RELAX. Go do something important with your lives. Just for today. Then come back with some perspective.
Everyone needs the ability to relax and parallax ;)
Some threads were meant for an escape route to a poisonous contaminating trend that was ruining the production and filming threads, but now they're just embarrassing for the forums and for the Bond community. I say, close this joint, and get the shock police at the door of the other two threads with their water cannons. And before you call me a fascist, consider the calamity state of all of this.
As for myself, I'm out. This is just too embarrassing to behold.
Race, maybe, if they find an actor they like. Wouldn't be a big deal if they did. Times have changed and the stuff that defines Bond's character (posh, upper class, British) is no longer tied to his race. If Daniel Craig was black or asian it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to the last few movies. There's no reason that the modern James Bond has to be white imo. Changing his race in 2019 is basically just changing his appearance, which has been done many times before.
Gender? It won't happen while Barbara is in charge. She's said so. And I'd like to think that any other studio heads who get their hands on it would be smart enough to see that it's a bad idea. A female James Bond just wouldn't be James Bond anymore. He's a man and an inherently masculine one at that. Whole different issue to changing his race and thankfully I don't think it'll ever happen.
Yeah I don't know if Bond is worth it anymore it's turned very political then escapism.
That’s not strictly true, though. To imply it is suggests all non-white folk, or feminists, are, by default, morally superior and do not seek any form of power/control only fairness, which is obviously nonsense. It’s human nature to want your culture/society/surroundings to work in a way that benefits you and there’s no way to satisfy all, something’s got to give.
Hence why #metoo, while coming from a decent place, has manifested as a power play against the very concept of ‘masculinity’, rather than a discussion about sexual relationships between men and women. But everything is a ‘movement’ now, pushed by the self righteous.
Ten years ago I would’ve agreed with you and to a point I still do, but people view ‘identity’ so differently now, even compared to five years ago. It’s been so politically weaponised that I’m not sure you can do it and bring the majority along for the ride. Simply changing his colour, seems small fry. But It’s now insisted upon that along with it comes ‘authenticity’, cultural, historical, social... so while I’m with you on the ‘colour doesn’t really matter’ argument in it’s most facile sense, we now live in a society where color also means race, culture and heritage and are held up as the first things (and sometimes only things) that matter and define us.
Is a Jack Daniels and Coke also good? B-)
That sounds good to me!! :-bd
Meh, a Scotch on the rocks however...
Ah yes, "top" whiskys are good for that. Jack & Jim Beam I mainly drink "mixed". :-?
Yes, entirely agree with that: Bond is one of the few characters who is defined very strongly by his gender- you can't make him a woman. Race: well, if you did a period piece set in the 50s with Bond as a black man it would be a very different story, but nowadays it wouldn't change anything about him.
Idris Elba is the one who's always brought up, and it's moot as he's too old anyway, but I can certainly see how he's got everything you'd want in a Bond actor. He's a bit self-consciously cool, but then so were the last two really!
I don't drink alcohol, only the blood of my victims. 8-X
Not since Cubby died.
You’re not their audience anymore, sorry. They moved on.
Been reading this forum what feels like bloody years and never really felt compelled to post until now. I've always appreciated @RC7 @peter @ColonelSun and their insight from the industry. Also, a small shout out to @M_Balje for the entertaining posts.
I don't know if you have many ladies here but I thought I would weigh in on this.
I feel like everyone is getting bogged down in the short term here. To me it makes sense that 007 is handed down to someone, anyone, whether he/she/they are white/black/asian or whatnot. DC's Bond left active service at the end of Spectre and drove off into the sunset with Madeleine. It follows the continuity that has been an integral part of DC's tenure and also gives us as the audience something we've never had the chance to watch Bond deal with before.
My only concern lies far more in the long term with Bond 26 going forward. I've seen a lot of people stressing out about this movie when I'm a little concerned that they may 'scrap' Bond and just run with 007 (Nomi) instead. I sincerely hope not. I would be happy to see a Nomi spin off if it's something that EON believe will be profitable to them (and it's a good story) but in the end I do want to see James Bond at the end of the day! I hope my fear is misplaced but I am a little bit nervous that it may be the last time we see 'James Bond'.
I do want to say though that I think it's really unfair to start labelling people as racist or sexist just because they have a differing opinion (likewise that someone is an SJW or snowflake for the 'opposing' opinion). It would be good to have some fruitful discussion around this than people shouting at each other. Just my two penneth worth!
I hope that this following opinion doesn't upset or offend anyone, but I don't think we'll see Bond get the number 007 back in B25. I think it would be considered poor for Nomi to either relinquish the number or to 'die' like she was nothing more than 'fodder' to further Bond as a character. It would probably cause as much of an uproar as this initial decision has!
Happy to hear your thoughts. Be gentle! I'm aware that sometimes you guys get the knives out! I can almost hear them sharpening in the background now (haha!)
00Heaven
You may’ve opened up a can of worms with that one, but perhaps the calm voice of a member of the opposite sex will force cooler heads moving forward!
Welcome to Mi6!
@00Heaven welcome your exactly the people we need people who want thoughtful discussion and see both sides to the argue welcome you are badly needed here I'm so glad you came in and spoke 😊
Not a problem. I've seen you three guys get ragged on a lot and never really thought it was warranted. As an outsider I'm really grateful for what news you have shared here.
I think when the dust settles and the film comes out we may see people consider it then. I think this will be especially true if Bond doesn't get 007 back. Now it could be a non-issue since in my opinion they'll be casting for a new Bond then and a potential reboot of some description. There's no way I can see DC coming back after this one. It just wouldn't fit the narrative/continuity no matter how fit he looks (and boy does he look *ahem* fit.) One thing is for certain though, if I'm right then the media train is going to be out of control with it too which is going to make these forums doubly busy I bet. Maybe we should get it out of the way now LOL.
I may be a lady but in some ways, for some reason I find it difficult to comment because I feel kind of 'entrenched' in Bond. I've loved Bond since I was a little girl. My parents hated the Moore era of Bond movies but found that it was a really effective way to keep me quiet.
So anyway, I suppose I'll add my thoughts being of the opposite sex.
I think there's some real positives to having Nomi if she's written appropriately. I think PWB is a great addition to the team for this reason - I'm also glad that PWB recognises what makes Bond..... Well, Bond. My opinion as a female is that even in this era the majority of the girls really do lack something. Madeleine would be the first example to me - I don't think I need to add more on the 'why' here but I don't think that's Lea's fault. Second would be Severine who is an excellent character but departs far too early. I'm not saying that they need to make women front and centre in a Bond movie (that would be sacrilege even to me) but the writing does have a habit of short changing them.
My major concern is that Ana's character may go this way which I really hope is not the case.
Oh, and for the love of God, I hope they 'fix' Madeleine in this movie. I'm very intrigued to see what part she plays. It doesn't seem 'usual' and I really hope that in most ways it isn't what we expect.
Yeah, they'll make an entertaining movie, then be on to the next one with a soft reboot. It's always in flux. I'm totally okay with this (he says, getting ready to watch another Dalton Bond...).