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Lashana Lynch as 007 and the Women of 'No Time to Die' (SPOILERS!)

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited March 2020 Posts: 8,179
    As pointed out on the James Bond and Friends, the treatment of female characters has been a concern for a very long time among those that worked with EON. Tom Mankiewicz says he went onto regret how Rosie Carver’s character was ultimately treated, going as far as to apologize to the actress because he felt she deserved better.

    I see nothing wrong with EON acknowledging mistakes made regarding the female roles, that doesn’t mean they’re suddenly going to go so woke that Bond girls will demand to have Bond get a written forum of their consent before having sex.

    *Bond approaches Severine*
    Severine: “Stop.”
    *Bond stops, puzzled. Severine brings out a five page forum of sexual consent*
    Severine: “You have to sign this first to make it official.”
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited March 2020 Posts: 5,185
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    As pointed out on the James Bond and Friends, the treatment of female characters has been a concern for a very long time among those that worked with EON. Tom Mankiewicz says he went onto regret how Rosie Carver’s character was ultimately treated, going as far as to apologize to the actress because he felt she deserved better.

    I see nothing wrong with EON acknowledging mistakes made regarding the female roles, that doesn’t mean they’re suddenly going to go so woke that Bond girls will demand to have Bond get a written forum of their consent before having sex.

    Fair enough, but you are picking another example out of the 70's.
    Personally i believe the only "sexist" movie in the franchise was TMWTGG because of the pretty horrendous treatment of Maud Adams, who said herself that her character was a total "victim", as much to Scaramanga as Bond sadly.

    But that was by design from Guy Hamilton, and they more than made it up to Maud by giving her one of the best female roles 3 movies Later, which i think was very much a reaction to TMWTGG (why else cast the same woman in another leading role? It always was a strange move.)

    Again, these examples are over 40 years old. There is no way anybody will convince me that Bond has been deliberately or accidentaly sexist under Barbara.... the mere fact that a woman has been leading the franchise for 30 years now and has approved each and every script decision should render this discussion pointless. That's just my opinion.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    Just because Barbara overlooks the franchise doesn’t meant she’s immune to making mistakes. If you want the most recent example, I do think how the scene ends on the island in SF is problematic. I have no issue with Severine’s demise, but I do think it’s tone deaf how the scene ends on a victorious note with the Bond theme and Bond’s radio gag, when Severine was just murdered a few seconds earlier. To me that just doesn’t play well. A more appropriate end would be that Bond apprehends Silva but it’s done on a somber note, with Bond looking over at Severine with a hint of regret or remorse.

    Another I’d point is the character of Christmas Jones, who’s so lacking in character obviously because she was only written with the purpose of giving exposition on nuclear equipment and being there for Bond to lay with after Elektra is killed off. Also worth noting Denise Richards wasn’t exactly happy with working on the film because of how cold and distant EON treated her, likely because she was forced onto EON by MGM. Only Brosnan seemed to be the guy who showed any warmth or comfort in that circus.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    The Sexual Activities Act 2001, subsection 7, paragraph 3: All forms must be signed in duplicate, including those of all parties involved in activity, as well as a signature from the head of department.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited March 2020 Posts: 5,185
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Just because Barbara overlooks the franchise doesn’t meant she’s immune to making mistakes. If you want the most recent example, I do think how the scene ends on the island in SF is problematic. I have no issue with Severine’s demise, but I do think it’s tone deaf how the scene ends on a victorious note with the Bond theme and Bond’s radio gag, when Severine was just murdered a few seconds earlier. To me that just doesn’t play well. A more appropriate end would be that Bond apprehends Silva but it’s done on a somber note, with Bond looking over at Severine with a hint of regret or remorse.

    Another I’d point is the character of Christmas Jones, who’s so lacking in character obviously because she was only written with the purpose of giving exposition on nuclear equipment and being there for Bond to lay with after Elektra is killed off. Also worth noting Denise Richards wasn’t exactly happy with working on the film because of how cold and distant EON treated her, likely because she was forced onto EON by MGM. Only Brosnan seemed to be the guy who showed any warmth or comfort in that circus.

    You know what, on that particular point i agree with you. I also don't have a problem with her demise, and have always said that it is a strong character moment and a continuation from Solange's death reaction, or "the bitch is dead". Nothing to get offended about. But that radio gag was maybe a bit too much, but on the other hand i'm not sure a theoretical injection of Phoebe would have changed that as this scene was more about a sound effect than dialogue specifically. Also people would complain that there is not enough Bond theme in the film, so you always have to please a lot of people...
    I'm mean, lets be real, the whole scene is a bit absurd, the way those 3 helicopters just magically appear completely synchronized in JUST the second that Bond killed all the enemies? Lol... they must have been on route for hours.

    Anyway, i'm drifting off, sorry.

    I will wait for NTTD and reserve my judgement for the final product, because i genuinly don't know what all this hype is about. I honestly think that some fans are blowing this whole thing WAAAAY out of proportion and the change we'll see will be minimal or not even sustainable going forward. Bond films will always be Bond films, there will be familiar trappings, there will be sex and death - closely related, etc.

    Only thing that might actually change is that now that there is more and more female talents in the business, they might hire more women to write or co-write the films and possibly direct them.

    But they can never take Fleming out of the equation, or water Bond down from what he was originally conceived as. Do that and you are left with no franchise.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    It should be noted that Waller-Bridge wasn’t brought in purely for her female perspective but that she got the gig because of her work on the spy thriller series KILLING EVE, which is what convinced Daniel Craig to want to bring her in on NTTD.

    So the whole notion that she was only brought in to make the series more “woke” is just coming from the loudmouth internet youtubers like Midnight’s Edge that makes it their business to complain about anything regarding “woke” and “SJW” because their audience mainly consists of angry misogynistic incels.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited March 2020 Posts: 5,185
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    It should be noted that Waller-Bridge wasn’t brought in purely for her female perspective but that she got the gig because of her work on the spy thriller series KILLING EVE, which is what convinced Daniel Craig to want to bring her in on NTTD.

    So the whole notion that she was only brought in to make the series more “woke” is just coming from the loudmouth internet youtubers like Midnight’s Edge that makes it their business to complain about anything regarding “woke” and “SJW” because their audience mainly consists of angry misogynistic incels.

    That whole woke angle was what the press was running with at that time, because they knew it would piss everybody off and bring them tons of attention. Until the point that Barbara had to come out and publicaly explain that a woman will never be Bond, just to clear the confusion (that the press, not EoN, had created).

    As for Phoebe, Killing Eve is just dope, enough said. After having seen that show i wanted Jodie Comer as a femme fatale in a Bond film, but having her writer is the next best thing i guess. Daniel chose her because she was good at writing really dark and funny dialogue in a spy world, not because she was "woke". That again was made up by the press (angry fans = many clicks).
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited March 2020 Posts: 17,740
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    It should be noted that Waller-Bridge wasn’t brought in purely for her female perspective but that she got the gig because of her work on the spy thriller series KILLING EVE, which is what convinced Daniel Craig to want to bring her in on NTTD.

    Indeed, and these recent comments from Craig elaborates on her involvement:
    - She’s first and foremost a brilliant screenwriter. People believe she was hired to provide a feminist angle for the film, but Phoebe gladly admit she didn’t say yes to the job to change James Bond, Craig says.
    - To hit comedic bullseye in the thriller genre is unique. In one moment you laugh, in the next you’re in total shock about how cold-blooded someone can be, When I saw the series, I though that we had to try and do this with Bond. I felt that we had to bring her into the team – we needed a energy injection.
    He enthusiastically tells about his first meeting with the «Fleabag» creator.
    - I got the chance to sit in a room like this with Phoebe, hammering out ideas. She’s contributed to the humour, and definitely made the script more filthy. She’s naughty in her language, Craig says, and laughs.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    Jodie Comer would make a great femme fatale in a future Bond film.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited March 2020 Posts: 5,185
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    It should be noted that Waller-Bridge wasn’t brought in purely for her female perspective but that she got the gig because of her work on the spy thriller series KILLING EVE, which is what convinced Daniel Craig to want to bring her in on NTTD.

    Indeed, and these recent comments from Craig elaborates on her involvement:
    - She’s first and foremost a brilliant screenwriter. People believe she was hired to provide a feminist angle for the film, but Phoebe gladly admit she didn’t say yes to the job to change James Bond, Craig says.
    - To hit comedic bullseye in the thriller genre is unique. In one moment you laugh, in the next you’re in total shock about how cold-blooded someone can be, When I saw the series, I though that we had to try and do this with Bond. I felt that we had to bring her into the team – we needed a energy injection.
    He enthusiastically tells about his first meeting with the «Fleabag» creator.
    - I got the chance to sit in a room like this with Phoebe, hammering out ideas. She’s contributed to the humour, and definitely made the script more filthy. She’s naughty in her language, Craig says, and laughs.

    And also very important to mention, Phoebe was reading Fleming in preparation and as reference for NTTD, probably to get the tone right.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    00Agent wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    It should be noted that Waller-Bridge wasn’t brought in purely for her female perspective but that she got the gig because of her work on the spy thriller series KILLING EVE, which is what convinced Daniel Craig to want to bring her in on NTTD.

    Indeed, and these recent comments from Craig elaborates on her involvement:
    - She’s first and foremost a brilliant screenwriter. People believe she was hired to provide a feminist angle for the film, but Phoebe gladly admit she didn’t say yes to the job to change James Bond, Craig says.
    - To hit comedic bullseye in the thriller genre is unique. In one moment you laugh, in the next you’re in total shock about how cold-blooded someone can be, When I saw the series, I though that we had to try and do this with Bond. I felt that we had to bring her into the team – we needed a energy injection.
    He enthusiastically tells about his first meeting with the «Fleabag» creator.
    - I got the chance to sit in a room like this with Phoebe, hammering out ideas. She’s contributed to the humour, and definitely made the script more filthy. She’s naughty in her language, Craig says, and laughs.

    And also very important to mention, Phoebe was reading Fleming in preparation and as reference for NTTD, probably to get the tone right.

    You know what @00Agent ... I think if Fleming were alive, he and PWB would seriously get along (and if he were in any kind of shape these two would have had a serious love affair).

  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    peter wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    It should be noted that Waller-Bridge wasn’t brought in purely for her female perspective but that she got the gig because of her work on the spy thriller series KILLING EVE, which is what convinced Daniel Craig to want to bring her in on NTTD.

    Indeed, and these recent comments from Craig elaborates on her involvement:
    - She’s first and foremost a brilliant screenwriter. People believe she was hired to provide a feminist angle for the film, but Phoebe gladly admit she didn’t say yes to the job to change James Bond, Craig says.
    - To hit comedic bullseye in the thriller genre is unique. In one moment you laugh, in the next you’re in total shock about how cold-blooded someone can be, When I saw the series, I though that we had to try and do this with Bond. I felt that we had to bring her into the team – we needed a energy injection.
    He enthusiastically tells about his first meeting with the «Fleabag» creator.
    - I got the chance to sit in a room like this with Phoebe, hammering out ideas. She’s contributed to the humour, and definitely made the script more filthy. She’s naughty in her language, Craig says, and laughs.

    And also very important to mention, Phoebe was reading Fleming in preparation and as reference for NTTD, probably to get the tone right.

    You know what @00Agent ... I think if Fleming were alive, he and PWB would seriously get along (and if he were in any kind of shape these two would have had a serious love affair).

    I don't know about that Fleming was centre right.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited March 2020 Posts: 5,185
    peter wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    It should be noted that Waller-Bridge wasn’t brought in purely for her female perspective but that she got the gig because of her work on the spy thriller series KILLING EVE, which is what convinced Daniel Craig to want to bring her in on NTTD.

    Indeed, and these recent comments from Craig elaborates on her involvement:
    - She’s first and foremost a brilliant screenwriter. People believe she was hired to provide a feminist angle for the film, but Phoebe gladly admit she didn’t say yes to the job to change James Bond, Craig says.
    - To hit comedic bullseye in the thriller genre is unique. In one moment you laugh, in the next you’re in total shock about how cold-blooded someone can be, When I saw the series, I though that we had to try and do this with Bond. I felt that we had to bring her into the team – we needed a energy injection.
    He enthusiastically tells about his first meeting with the «Fleabag» creator.
    - I got the chance to sit in a room like this with Phoebe, hammering out ideas. She’s contributed to the humour, and definitely made the script more filthy. She’s naughty in her language, Craig says, and laughs.

    And also very important to mention, Phoebe was reading Fleming in preparation and as reference for NTTD, probably to get the tone right.

    You know what @00Agent ... I think if Fleming were alive, he and PWB would seriously get along (and if he were in any kind of shape these two would have had a serious love affair).

    Yeah i could definitly see a nice love-hate relationship blossom between the two :))

    Also one of my favorite anecdodes about Phoebe, that i think many people completely missed, came from Rami Malek, who said he had a script discussion with Phoebe and she was telling him about a very pivotal and serious scene, and then Phoebe revealed a punchline to him that Bond made in the midst of that, and Rami asked her... "wow, do you think this is appropriate? i mean this is a serious moment...." and she answered "ahh, he just can't help himself, can he." lol
    I'm para-phrasing of course, not sure i could find that particular interview again.

  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited March 2020 Posts: 2,541
    I am about to finish my bondathon with my girlfriend and this is what she has to say about women's treatment in the past & the present when I asked her recently. Mind you she isn't a bond fan, she likes to watch all sorts of movies/tv shows. Bolded Parts are her words below. She said and i quote :

    "It's called story- telling just like there have been all sorts of women from intelligent to dumb in the series not because they were treated badly but the script were good or bad not the women's treatment on those film's per se. Did anyone ever complain when quarrel was used as a sacrifical lamb in Dr No? Did any women ever complain about men's treatment in most female centric film's? atleast bond film's offer a challenge for him by creating strong female characters from time to time. Just like those are women's fantasy, bond is hetrosexual male fantasy, the only difference is women are told to enjoy their fantasies even embrace it and men are made to feel bad about how they oppressed and treat them badly for decades. If you don't like his behavior towards something why are you a fan in the first place ?".


    In case anyone wonders why men like dumb women to sleep with , it's not men it's the women who prefer men to be older, taller, stronger, smarter and richer as well. It's called "hypergamy", read about it if you haven't yet. It's not the men who have to choose, it's the women who makes the decision, it's her consent that matters more(not that i am complaining). When you approach a woman for a casual or long term relationship, she is the one who decides if she wants to, not the other way around to be honest . So it's highly stupid to say that men choose their women to be like this or that, grow up men rarely have a choice.

    I have said this before and going to say this again, if women's opinion matters on how attractive they find bond then why men's opinion don't matter anymore on their sexual preference on women in bond film's, isn't that a little hypocritical? About lashana, I don't find her attractive but we have yet to see how great her character going to be(i am neutral at the moment, neither excited nor disappointed) but it's going to be hard as film delayed again. It's going to be 7 long months for bond fans.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    You found yourself a smart girl @Resurrection

    I barely ever heard a woman complain about Bond films. Actually, outside of the internet i never heard a woman complain about Bond films period. At worst, they simply don't care.

    90% of all the Bond is sexist arguments come from guys. Seriously, if you see a guy argue about Bond being sexist, just ignore him from now on. It's always some agreeable male whiners who will trash Bond for being sexist because they think they get some social points for it. As if they get laid more by trashing "sexist Bond" on social media... yeah, that's how this works fellas. 8-|

    I don't run around trashing Fifty shades of grey, it wasn't written for me, i never read it. I don't care, but acknowledge that it's super popular. Let people enjoy stuff.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    Resurrection wrote: »
    I am about to finish my bondathon with my girlfriend and this is what she has to say about women's treatment in the past & the present when I asked her recently. Mind you she isn't a bond fan, she likes to watch all sorts of movies/tv shows. Bolded Parts are her words below. She is said and i quote :

    "It's called story- telling just like there have been all sorts of women from intelligent to dumb in the series not because they were treated badly but the script were good or bad not the women's treatment on those film's per se. Did anyone ever complain when quarrel was used as a sacrifical lamb in Dr No? Did any women ever complain about men's treatment in most female centric film's? atleast bond film's offer a challenge for him by creating strong female characters from time to time. Just like those are women's fantasy, bond is hetrosexual male fantasy, the only difference is women are told to enjoy their fantasies even embrace it and men are made to feel bad about how they oppressed and treat them badly for decades. If you don't like his behavior towards something why are you a fan in the first place ?".


    In case anyone wonders why men like dumb women to sleep with , it's not men it's the women who prefer men to be older, taller, stronger, smarter and richer as well. It's called "hypergamy", read about it if you haven't yet. It's not the men who have to choose, it's the women who makes the decision, it's her consent that matters more(not that i am complaining). When you approach a woman for a casual or long term relationship, she is the one who decides if she wants to, not the other way around to be honest . So it's highly stupid to say that men choose their women to be like this or that, grow up men rarely have a choice.

    I have said this before and going to say this again, if women's opinion matters on how attractive they find bond then why men's opinion don't matter anymore on their sexual preference on women in bond film's, isn't that a little hypocritical? About lashana, I don't find her attractive but we have yet to see how great her character going to be(i am neutral at the moment, neither excited nor disappointed) but it's going to be hard as film delayed again. It's going to be 7 long months for bond fans.

    +1
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited March 2020 Posts: 13,978
    00Agent wrote: »
    You found yourself a smart girl @Resurrection

    I barely ever heard a woman complain about Bond films. Actually, outside of the internet i never heard a woman complain about Bond films period. At worst, they simply don't care.

    90% of all the Bond is sexist arguments come from guys. Seriously, if you see a guy argue about Bond being sexist, just ignore him from now on. It's always some agreeable male whiners who will trash Bond for being sexist because they think they get some social points for it. As if they get laid more by trashing "sexist Bond" on social media... yeah, that's how this works fellas. 8-|

    I don't run around trashing Fifty shades of grey, it wasn't written for me, i never read it. I don't care, but acknowledge that it's super popular. Let people enjoy stuff.

    They're called White Knights.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    You found yourself a smart girl @Resurrection

    I barely ever heard a woman complain about Bond films. Actually, outside of the internet i never heard a woman complain about Bond films period. At worst, they simply don't care.

    90% of all the Bond is sexist arguments come from guys. Seriously, if you see a guy argue about Bond being sexist, just ignore him from now on. It's always some agreeable male whiners who will trash Bond for being sexist because they think they get some social points for it. As if they get laid more by trashing "sexist Bond" on social media... yeah, that's how this works fellas. 8-|

    I don't run around trashing Fifty shades of grey, it wasn't written for me, i never read it. I don't care, but acknowledge that it's super popular. Let people enjoy stuff.

    They're called White Knights.

    I call them f****** idiots :))
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    00Agent wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    You found yourself a smart girl @Resurrection

    I barely ever heard a woman complain about Bond films. Actually, outside of the internet i never heard a woman complain about Bond films period. At worst, they simply don't care.

    90% of all the Bond is sexist arguments come from guys. Seriously, if you see a guy argue about Bond being sexist, just ignore him from now on. It's always some agreeable male whiners who will trash Bond for being sexist because they think they get some social points for it. As if they get laid more by trashing "sexist Bond" on social media... yeah, that's how this works fellas. 8-|

    I don't run around trashing Fifty shades of grey, it wasn't written for me, i never read it. I don't care, but acknowledge that it's super popular. Let people enjoy stuff.

    They're called White Knights.

    I call them f****** idiots :))

    Also appropriate. ;)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    It should be noted that Waller-Bridge wasn’t brought in purely for her female perspective but that she got the gig because of her work on the spy thriller series KILLING EVE, which is what convinced Daniel Craig to want to bring her in on NTTD.

    Indeed, and these recent comments from Craig elaborates on her involvement:
    - She’s first and foremost a brilliant screenwriter. People believe she was hired to provide a feminist angle for the film, but Phoebe gladly admit she didn’t say yes to the job to change James Bond, Craig says.
    - To hit comedic bullseye in the thriller genre is unique. In one moment you laugh, in the next you’re in total shock about how cold-blooded someone can be, When I saw the series, I though that we had to try and do this with Bond. I felt that we had to bring her into the team – we needed a energy injection.
    He enthusiastically tells about his first meeting with the «Fleabag» creator.
    - I got the chance to sit in a room like this with Phoebe, hammering out ideas. She’s contributed to the humour, and definitely made the script more filthy. She’s naughty in her language, Craig says, and laughs.

    And also very important to mention, Phoebe was reading Fleming in preparation and as reference for NTTD, probably to get the tone right.

    You know what @00Agent ... I think if Fleming were alive, he and PWB would seriously get along (and if he were in any kind of shape these two would have had a serious love affair).

    I don't know about that Fleming was centre right.

    I don't think that would stop Ian, @007Blofeld ... Plus, Mr. Fleming was far more progressive than some of his contemporaries (the man wanted electric cars!); he was a sexual hedonist and "sadist", so he wasn't your every day center-right person that we see today.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    peter wrote: »
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    It should be noted that Waller-Bridge wasn’t brought in purely for her female perspective but that she got the gig because of her work on the spy thriller series KILLING EVE, which is what convinced Daniel Craig to want to bring her in on NTTD.

    Indeed, and these recent comments from Craig elaborates on her involvement:
    - She’s first and foremost a brilliant screenwriter. People believe she was hired to provide a feminist angle for the film, but Phoebe gladly admit she didn’t say yes to the job to change James Bond, Craig says.
    - To hit comedic bullseye in the thriller genre is unique. In one moment you laugh, in the next you’re in total shock about how cold-blooded someone can be, When I saw the series, I though that we had to try and do this with Bond. I felt that we had to bring her into the team – we needed a energy injection.
    He enthusiastically tells about his first meeting with the «Fleabag» creator.
    - I got the chance to sit in a room like this with Phoebe, hammering out ideas. She’s contributed to the humour, and definitely made the script more filthy. She’s naughty in her language, Craig says, and laughs.

    And also very important to mention, Phoebe was reading Fleming in preparation and as reference for NTTD, probably to get the tone right.

    You know what @00Agent ... I think if Fleming were alive, he and PWB would seriously get along (and if he were in any kind of shape these two would have had a serious love affair).

    I don't know about that Fleming was centre right.

    I don't think that would stop Ian, @007Blofeld ... Plus, Mr. Fleming was far more progressive than some of his contemporaries (the man wanted electric cars!); he was a sexual hedonist and "sadist", so he wasn't your every day center-right person that we see today.

    I'm for electric cars and I'm not a progressive I doubt he would be for this me too stuff and all this other pc stuff I won't get into he said he was centre right and the way he describes things maybe he is probably at most an independent we will never know but I know that some of his options and values would definitely make him lean center right. And too its probably not worth having a debate because he isn't alive and we will never know the answer but based on some of his opinions they are definitely center right. @peter
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    peter wrote: »
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    It should be noted that Waller-Bridge wasn’t brought in purely for her female perspective but that she got the gig because of her work on the spy thriller series KILLING EVE, which is what convinced Daniel Craig to want to bring her in on NTTD.

    Indeed, and these recent comments from Craig elaborates on her involvement:
    - She’s first and foremost a brilliant screenwriter. People believe she was hired to provide a feminist angle for the film, but Phoebe gladly admit she didn’t say yes to the job to change James Bond, Craig says.
    - To hit comedic bullseye in the thriller genre is unique. In one moment you laugh, in the next you’re in total shock about how cold-blooded someone can be, When I saw the series, I though that we had to try and do this with Bond. I felt that we had to bring her into the team – we needed a energy injection.
    He enthusiastically tells about his first meeting with the «Fleabag» creator.
    - I got the chance to sit in a room like this with Phoebe, hammering out ideas. She’s contributed to the humour, and definitely made the script more filthy. She’s naughty in her language, Craig says, and laughs.

    And also very important to mention, Phoebe was reading Fleming in preparation and as reference for NTTD, probably to get the tone right.

    You know what @00Agent ... I think if Fleming were alive, he and PWB would seriously get along (and if he were in any kind of shape these two would have had a serious love affair).

    I don't know about that Fleming was centre right.

    I don't think that would stop Ian, @007Blofeld ... Plus, Mr. Fleming was far more progressive than some of his contemporaries (the man wanted electric cars!); he was a sexual hedonist and "sadist", so he wasn't your every day center-right person that we see today.

    He was pretty liberal for 50's standards, and he never wanted to fit in anyway.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I'm not doubting what you're saying, @007Blofeld ... I was just saying his right of center may not be what we're seeing today. And my original point was, I don't think political affiliations would ever stop Mr. Fleming from sleeping with a sexy, intelligent and sassy lady (like PWB).
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    edited March 2020 Posts: 3,497
    00Agent wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    @00Agent I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that anyone is advocating for a “safer” Bond that’s kinder and gentler. Nobody has. At least not in this forum. Even Phoebe Waller-Bridge made it explicitly clear in an interview that she doesn’t want the Bond character to change and does not want to be made PC.

    Fans are really griping about nonexistent issues.

    Ok so if you think that i am missing the point that @Denbigh was trying to make, please explain his point to me in your own words. Enlighten me with your bottomless wisdom about my intellectual shortcomings. I can't wait.

    Is this really necessary?

    Phoebe Waller-Bridge said that the character won't change. End of story.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    JamesCraig wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    @00Agent I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that anyone is advocating for a “safer” Bond that’s kinder and gentler. Nobody has. At least not in this forum. Even Phoebe Waller-Bridge made it explicitly clear in an interview that she doesn’t want the Bond character to change and does not want to be made PC.

    Fans are really griping about nonexistent issues.

    Ok so if you think that i am missing the point that @Denbigh was trying to make, please explain his point to me in your own words. Enlighten me with your bottomless wisdom about my intellectual shortcomings. I can't wait.

    Is this really necessary?

    Phoebe Waller-Bridge said that the character won't change. End of story.

    Old news.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    edited March 2020 Posts: 3,497
    00Agent wrote: »
    JamesCraig wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    @00Agent I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that anyone is advocating for a “safer” Bond that’s kinder and gentler. Nobody has. At least not in this forum. Even Phoebe Waller-Bridge made it explicitly clear in an interview that she doesn’t want the Bond character to change and does not want to be made PC.

    Fans are really griping about nonexistent issues.

    Ok so if you think that i am missing the point that @Denbigh was trying to make, please explain his point to me in your own words. Enlighten me with your bottomless wisdom about my intellectual shortcomings. I can't wait.

    Is this really necessary?

    Phoebe Waller-Bridge said that the character won't change. End of story.

    Old news.

    Yes but why do you keep on complaining & whining over this?

    How much more proof do you need?

    We don't even know for sure that she'll have the 007 number assigned to her. Unless I've missed something.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    JamesCraig wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    JamesCraig wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    @00Agent I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that anyone is advocating for a “safer” Bond that’s kinder and gentler. Nobody has. At least not in this forum. Even Phoebe Waller-Bridge made it explicitly clear in an interview that she doesn’t want the Bond character to change and does not want to be made PC.

    Fans are really griping about nonexistent issues.

    Ok so if you think that i am missing the point that @Denbigh was trying to make, please explain his point to me in your own words. Enlighten me with your bottomless wisdom about my intellectual shortcomings. I can't wait.

    Is this really necessary?

    Phoebe Waller-Bridge said that the character won't change. End of story.

    Old news.

    Yes but why do you keep on complaining & whining over this?

    How much more proof do you need?

    We don't even know for sure that she'll have the 007 number assigned to her. Unless I've missed something.

    Man, we had a whole discussion about this since yesterday, maybe you just wait an read forward? I don't have a problem with Nomi. Denbigh was talking about misrepresentations of the past, which i responded to.

    That's it. We discussed it Ad nauseam.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    Posts: 3,497
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Jodie Comer would make a great femme fatale in a future Bond film.

    xwKQb4R.jpg

    Ain't that the truth.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    edited March 2020 Posts: 3,497
    Delete plz.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited March 2020 Posts: 3,126
    peter wrote: »
    I'm not doubting what you're saying, @007Blofeld ... I was just saying his right of center may not be what we're seeing today. And my original point was, I don't think political affiliations would ever stop Mr. Fleming from sleeping with a sexy, intelligent and sassy lady (like PWB).

    He wasn't for gay marriage though he had gay friends, he was an alpha who wants to dominate women (the sweet tang of rape) I don't think he would be welcomed with progressives there there's at least two big checks he said he would vote conservative over labor he was born from a conservative rich family his father was a conservative mp he admired churchill an imperialist conservative. I don't know I think he might be turned off when she fights back at him. According to everything or nothing the documentary he created James Bond as a response to the ussr which is the far left i don't know the first two points are pretty telling at the very least Its really the whole clash of his conservatism vs today's progressivism. It's a fascinating debate but the two things above and the racism and stuff I don't think any of that would fly with progressives. @peter
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