Lashana Lynch as 007 and the Women of 'No Time to Die' (SPOILERS!)

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  • Posts: 6,709
    Barbara just said in an interview they've never wanted to do spinoffs and still don't.
    Although we know there was a treatment for Jinx. Let's just hope and believe she [Babs] was the one who scraped it. Again, in Babs I trust.

    Thank heavens amazon only wants theatrical movies from Bond.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,422
    Mallory wrote: »
    If they were going to do that (launch Nomi as a standalone film set) wouldnt it make more sense to introduce that character with the new 007 in Bond 26, rather than continue the Craig era timeline whilst having a completely different timeline with a new Bond? Wouldnt having Nomi interact with the new Bond be a bit odd (would the just ignore all the NTTD stuff between them?).

    I think generally Eon don't plan too far ahead in that way: and I don't mean that in a bad way- they just do everything they can possibly think of (which fits in the latest film anyway) right now. And Nomi has clearly been designed for this particular plot: she's there for this Bond to react against her replacing him.
    I think if they decided to spin her off you could potentially ignore it- we've got several different versions of various superheroes all existing at the same time now, maybe it just doesn't matter. But I don't see her getting a spin-off unless she leaves MI6 or something- with her being a double-O she'd just come off as a slightly bargain basement version of Bond.
    Mallory wrote: »
    Wouldnt having Nomi interact with the new Bond be a bit odd (would the just ignore all the NTTD stuff between them?).

    Possibly, but I think one of the nice things about the Bond franchise is that actors overlap. It provides a sense of continuity.

    So for example when M dies at the end of Skyfall it is, literally, the death of the same M that we saw in Goldeneye, under a completely different Bond. Dench’s M interacts with two different Bonds.

    I do know what you mean and I'm not disagreeing, but I always think it's interesting how they did try to make the CR M a different woman from the Brosnan M: gone are the boring suits and constant need to have a glass of bourbon in her hand, in comes the vampy, actually slightly sexy dresser with the modern apartment.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    edited September 2021 Posts: 737
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I personally think it would matter in this instance. While the James Bond franchise is known to just carry on with the same story threads through different actors, with no thought of realistic timelines, the Craig-era is its own self-contained "world" and story, with its own versions of characters we've seen before.

    Even Judi Dench's M (in my mind anyway) is a completely different M to the one we saw in the Brosnan-era

    I haven't researched this for a while, but I do believe that it is pretty much stated that Dench is playing a different character in the Craig era than in the Brosnan ones. Is Dench playing Barbara Mawdsley (as in the Benson novels) in the Brosnan films, and a totally new character in the Craig ones?

    I am sure one of you guys knows the answer to this.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    What we find out about her background in SKYFALL doesn’t line up with the M seen in the Brosnan films. In 1995 the Brosnan era M was the new in her position, whereas SKYFALL states she was head of Hong Kong station during the British handout. As pointed out, even her wardrobe is different compared to the more conservative wardrobe of the Brosnan era. There’s at least enough evidence to suggest they’re different versions of M, much like JK Simmons played two different Jamesons in different Spider-Man films.

    Though I don’t think the name Barbara Mawdsley was ever brought up in the Brosnan films, she is named Olivia Mansfield in Craig’s.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    What we find out about her background in SKYFALL doesn’t line up with the M seen in the Brosnan films. In 1995 the Brosnan era M was the new in her position, whereas SKYFALL states she was head of Hong Kong station during the British handout. As pointed out, even her wardrobe is different compared to the more conservative wardrobe of the Brosnan era. There’s at least enough evidence to suggest they’re different versions of M, much like JK Simmons played two different Jamesons in different Spider-Man films.

    Though I don’t think the name Barbara Mawdsley was ever brought up in the Brosnan films, she is named Olivia Mansfield in Craig’s.

    Cheers @MakeshiftPython
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2021 Posts: 16,422
    What we find out about her background in SKYFALL doesn’t line up with the M seen in the Brosnan films. In 1995 the Brosnan era M was the new in her position, whereas SKYFALL states she was head of Hong Kong station during the British handout. As pointed out, even her wardrobe is different compared to the more conservative wardrobe of the Brosnan era. There’s at least enough evidence to suggest they’re different versions of M, much like JK Simmons played two different Jamesons in different Spider-Man films.

    Though I don’t think the name Barbara Mawdsley was ever brought up in the Brosnan films, she is named Olivia Mansfield in Craig’s.

    Yeah I think Mawdsley name was purely an invention of Raymond Benson for his books and I don't see it as being part of the films at all. It's somehow a bit... rubbish.
    The Mansfield name is the only official one for my liking because we see it onscreen.
  • Posts: 1,314
    Part of me thinks the only reason we got a jinx spin off mooted was because Michael G Wilson had the hots for Halle Berry.

    She was awful in the film (despite being a talented actress) due to the direction and writing. God knows what they were thinking.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Do you guys think that Lynch’s idea of showing Nomi “on her period” made it into the film? In that article she was talking about this idea for a scene were Nomi throws a tampon in the garbage.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,422
    No, I think she said it didn’t and just gave it as an example of where she wanted to take it.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited September 2021 Posts: 4,343
    Hope you’re right because in that article they also reported PWB’s reaction to it: “Let’s write it” lol.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    matt_u wrote: »
    Do you guys think that Lynch’s idea of showing Nomi “on her period” made it into the film? In that article she was talking about this idea for a scene were Nomi throws a tampon in the garbage.

    No frickin frackin way that made it in. The producers know better. There would be some serious backlash if it did.
  • I can't help but think Pheobe Waller Bridge will have re-worked the Swann character from damsel in distress to secret villian (she's good at that). I think Swann will turn out to be the head of Spectre. Otherwise why isn't she fighting alongside Bond in the finale? Instead it's Ana De Armas (I think?).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    That’s not the finale.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    People should check out the behind the scenes video Greg Williams has posted with Ana De Armas :)

    https://gregwilliams.com/
  • Lashana Lynch is great as Nomi. However, I really wanted to love her character and I just didn't. I feel they wasted the potential friction between having the new and old 007 going head to head. Initially, there is some fun one-upmanship, but it fizzles out with Nomi becoming too deferential to Bond. She is not helped by the fact that she gets lost in the middle of the film. It's shame as Nomi kicks arse, but perhaps suffers as the film is overstuffed with characters.

    The optics felt wrong of Nomi handing over her 00 number. It just seemed wrong for one of the few minority characters to be so subservient to a character who essentially epitomises the patriarchy. They didn't need to do this and could have avoided this conversation. If anything a little moment where Bond says to Nomi "Thank you, 007" after she throws him the detonator would have sufficed. Perhaps with a knowing look of appreciation between the pair.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,711

    Spoilers?
  • Spoilers?

    This thread title now promises spoilers. I didn't notice the changed heading either. Thanks and goodbye...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2021 Posts: 12,480
    YES there are spoilers in this thread. Please realize that.

    All I came here to say is (without spoilers) that I saw NTTD yesterday, and I loved both Nomi and Paloma characters. Nomi surprised me by being rather seamlessly brought in, mixing great with Bond and others due to the good script (+ all supporting actors in this movie are excellent), and I liked her right away. I would have been happy with even a bit more of her in the film. Some people seemed uptight about her before the film came out, at least sometimes. But no worries at all. Nothing to be upset about; she's very fine. Paloma sparkles, as everybody says.

    So yes, two great additions to this excellent, bold, beautifully filmed Bond movie. I rank it highly.
  • YES there are spoilers in this thread. Please realize that.

    All I came here to say is (without spoilers) that I saw NTTD yesterday, and I loved both Nomi and Paloma characters. Nomi surprised me by being rather seamlessly brought in, mixing great with Bond and others due to the good script (+ all supporting actors in this movie are excellent), and I liked her right away. I would have been happy with even a bit more of her in the film. Some people seemed uptight about her before the film came out, at least sometimes. But no worries at all. Nothing to be upset about; she's very fine. Paloma sparkles, as everybody says.

    So yes, two great additions to this excellent, bold, beautifully filmed Bond movie. I rank it highly.

    I thought Nomi was a great character and absolutely agree that she should have had more to do. Also, I loved the way Craig called her "007."

    I just thought that it was such a cop out that she gave her number back to Bond. We know it kinda bothered him that MI6 didn't retire the number, but he wasn't overly ruffled about it (more quietly miffed). But the scene where Nomi gave the number back and M approved in that dumb videolink (which felt like a cut scene from a video game before you go off on a mission. That interlink video was kinda lazy writing.)

    Also, the film doesn't actually tell us what 00 number Bond is assigned. I believe a companion book came out recently that revealed '007 and 003' board a plane......so is Bond temporarily 003? The film really tiptoed around the idea - perhaps in response to the internet leaks. It felt tepid. Perhaps because the surprise was over two years old by the time we saw the film. This aspect of the film along with Obruchev, the way people's faces melted and how they instantly died (plus that ugly green coat) were the most disappointing aspects of NTTD.

    I want a Nomi spin-off! Lashana has been a gem during the press tour.

    4530876.jpg
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Nomi, unfortunately, was an utter waste of time after all the hype. She spends most of the film on the periphery, pops by to trade jabs with Bond and then retreats to the periphery again. She played almost zero part in the advancement of the plot to the point where you could easily cut her out and the film wouldn't be any worse off, narratively. The idea of Bond losing his number to a newbie agent is an intriguing one, but I came out of NTTD thinking that they should have saved it for a film where they could actually explore it. It felt like an afterthought, here.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Nomi, unfortunately, was an utter waste of time after all the hype. She spends most of the film on the periphery, pops by to trade jabs with Bond and then retreats to the periphery again. She played almost zero part in the advancement of the plot to the point where you could easily cut her out and the film wouldn't be any worse off, narratively. The idea of Bond losing his number to a newbie agent is an intriguing one, but I came out of NTTD thinking that they should have saved it for a film where they could actually explore it. It felt like an afterthought, here.

    The 00 number chat in NTTD was pathetic. Why would Bond, or Nomi for that matter, care a jot? It is just a number. It means nothing. And, if Craig's tenure really is a self-contained series, then what has his Bond done to deserve even the hint that the number should be retired after he has left the service? His Bond has a series of mostly failed missions behind him, after all - including the time he virtually kidnaps M and brings her back to London dead.

    I thought Nomi came across well. The Jamaican accent she puts on was quite fun. Lynch plays it pretty well throughout. I hated the 'down boy' comment - that's up there with 'Yo mama' from Halle Berry in DAD. But otherwise she's not a terrible character by any means, and had this been a normal Bond film, and the lead actor carrying on in the part, I would have no real issue with her returning in cameo roles in future episodes as an addition to the Mi6 team. Those scenes in Jamaica are really rather excellent and she contributes hugely to that (aside from the scripting about the 00 number - which is utterly nonsensical from a character perspective).
  • quantumspectrequantumspectre argentina
    edited October 2021 Posts: 61
    to me the only trouble about her is that i have never seen her before, so is a new actress and evaluate her for only a movie is too much. even if i was a director will be hard to say how good she is if only appears a few scenes.from what i have seen she looks good in the role.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Nomi was fine but I’m glad she was treated like a secondary character. I loved how competitive she was and her obsession with the codename was fun.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    matt_u wrote: »
    Nomi was fine but I’m glad she was treated like a secondary character. I loved how competitive she was and her obsession with the codename was fun.

    Yeah, I really liked her when she was around! I wonder if we'll see some deleted scenes....
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    I liked the banter between her and Bond. Thought is was handled rather well.

    I did not like how he got it back from her though, felt more like Top Gun than Bond.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    edited October 2021 Posts: 2,641
    I'll put this in the spoiler tag in case there's any plot points that anyone doesn't want hinted at or discussed. Enjoy the film
    Madeline
    Underwhelming. I felt for Lea after seeing Spectre because the character was severely underwritten but after watching NTTD, I'm disappointed by her performance in part. She lacked warmth that was needed for the story this film was trying to tell.

    I never got the feeling that she needed Bond or even wanted him. Perhaps a montage scene was needed to show how in love her and Bond were, but Daniel and Lea's chemistry was nonexistent and her distant performance hurt the big ending this film was clearly centred around.
    I don't want to blame Lea for her performance soley, perhaps she would have sold it more if her character wasn't written as strong and badass, instead was more of a winged dove at least at times during this film

    Paloma
    Underused. I really enjoyed this character, it was interesting that she was a nervous character, it's a side of Bond allies I don't has ever truly been explored. She was extremely believable and capable in the action. I loved her tender moment of touching Bond's face to put the earpiece in, beautifully done. As was Ana's delivery of the "stay longer next time line" line
    Paloma and Bond's chemistry was fantastic.

    I wasn't fond of her rejecting Bond in principle, if you're going to have them be platonic, be just that. Her rejecting Bond made him look out of touch and almost creepy, which Daniel's Bond hasn't been. Also I wasn't fond of Paloma pulling the "Fleabag expression" at Waldo, it took me out of the film and it felt beneath her character.

    Nomi
    Overhyped. I felt sorry for Lashana watching NTTD, it felt like a lot of her scenes were cut because she was hyped as a Jinx or Wai Lin in the promotion and trailers, when I'm reality she was a background character. I thought she did well with what she had and she brought a lot of heart to the role.

    I think giving her 007 was a mistake, because it shouldn't have warranted the reaction it did out of Bond and it felt like an unnecessary weight around Nomi's neck. It should have been explored further, rather than be a boxed ticked. It was one storyline too many in a huge film for the series.
    Giving her 009 would have fit this film better, have the jokes be about them being rival 00's and given the DB10 joke in Spectre they would already have a familiarity
    I understand her being 007 was to show us the audience and Bond that the world has moved on, but given the technological advances in between Spectre and NTTD that was representation itself.

    Apologies about the long post, I had a lot of thoughts on this one. Bless you if you could be bothered reading til the end 😅
  • Despite her small role, Paloma is one of my 3 favourite Bond girls of the past 30 years:

    1. Vesper Lynd
    2. Xenia Onatopp
    3. Paloma
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 2,165
    Quick Q:
    Did MI6 know Madeleine had a child and that she was Bond’s?

    It is inferred that Bond reported Maddie to MI6 as a spectre agent, as Tanner makes some remark about it, and her being “compliant”. Presumably she would have been visibly pregnant around this time, and I assume (?) she does look after Mathilde in London at her home there.

    Also I think (admittedly I cant remember it crystal clear) Nomi says she didnt know about the child. Something along those lines.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2021 Posts: 12,480
    We need spoiler tags on yours, @Mallory.
    OK it does say SPOILERS in the thread title. But I hope people do not come into this thread at all if they have not seen it.

    I'll say here that I liked Madeleine in this one very much. Great improvement over Spectre and I really bought into her relationship with Bond in NTTD. I think Lea made some inspired choices as an actor (physical gestures in particular).
  • Posts: 2,165
    @4EverBonded i have added a spoiler tag, just incase
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