Lashana Lynch as 007 and the Women of 'No Time to Die' (SPOILERS!)

007Blofeld

mtm wrote: »

Univex wrote: »

doubleonothing wrote: »

The_Reaper wrote: »

doubleonothing wrote: »

The_Reaper wrote: »

doubleonothing wrote: »

The_Reaper wrote: »

So if Superman had been a black female for the past 80 years the character would be as successful and globally recognized as it is today? Really?

Sadly, we both know the answer is that a black female Superman would not have been as successful or globally recognised. And we probably both know that’s down to inherent racism and sexism in society. Because people such as yourself would decry a black female Superman, just as you’re decrying a black female secret agent. Should there have been better representations in our media? Absolutely. Perhaps if there had been we wouldn’t still be arguing whether a black person in a film role was a good or bad thing. Because - I can almost not believe it - that’s what we’re doing here.

You ask why change the race or gender if it doesn’t matter? Well, that’s a good question. It doesn’t matter if, say, Moneypenny is black or white. That has no bearing on her as a character. But look around. How many black female characters are there? Very, very few. So, if it doesn’t matter either way whether they’re black if white, then just because of the fact they are so badly represented, they should be black. How can you not see that?

Who cares how many there are? Why does representation in a FICTIONAL world matter? For me, as a biracial person (Mexican father, American mother), seeing someone on screen that looks like me means less than nothing. I enjoy superheroes and characters like James Bond because they are fun, exciting, well-written archetypes.

Let's go further with the Superman example. He's 6' 4", dark hair, handsome, etc. Oh, and an alien! He looks nothing like me (or most people) and so what? I still love him as a character because of his other traits. Also, how far would you be willing to go in regards to changing a character? If Supes was played by someone 5' 1" with red hair, would he still be the same character? His physical characteristics don't matter in this case, right? He would still have super powers, still be strong, have flight, be bulletproof, etc, correct? He could be the size of a baby and still pound villains into the ground with ease.

Again, how far can we change a character until it's not the same character?

Okay, let’s go point by point.
1) Why does representation in a fictional world matter? Because our media is what shapes our cultural and societal viewpoints. If women and people of colour are under-represented, or represented in a negative light in media and entertainment, that’s how we are informing our society. The fact that you are bi-racial and personally don’t care about how you’re represented is ignoring the fact that many people do care and it affects them in the real world. To believe otherwise is naive. Representation means “less than nothing” to you, so it should mean the same to millions of others who are marginalised and disenfranchised? That’s literally saying “doesn’t bother me so why should I care?” Being bi-racial doesn’t make that stance any more palatable.

2) This whole “what if Superman was a 5’ 1” redhead?” argument is ridiculous. And you know why? Because we’ve already had it with Bond. The physical archetype for Bond is over 6’, dark hair, and movie star handsome. That’s how Fleming wrote him. He also wrote him as a character who smoked 50 a day and did drugs to stay focused. Craig’s Bond is under 6’. He’s blond and, (no disrespect to Mr. Craig), he’s not conventionally handsome. He doesn’t smoke or do drugs. On top of which, they entirely re-wrote his backstory. Oh, yeah, remember that this is an entirely different character now. He’s not even supposed to be the same Bond that Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton, and Brosnan played. You asked how far we can change a character before it’s not the same character anymore? They already did it.

Again, how far is too far?

So, let’s just get this straight. They’ve cast a black woman in the role of a “00” agent. She’s not Bond, nor is she likely to be “007” after this film. She’s literally taken his number after Bond retired and has been gone for a few years. And this is what you’re losing your lunch over? If anyone has gone too far, I’d say it’s you.

I still don't understand how people are misunderstanding this. Pure fear? Or plain stupidity? Or both.

If Connery's Bond had the same thing happening to him, with an Emma Peel type in the 60s, that would make for some fun, wouldn't it? I bet we'd love to see that. I would have.

Indeed. Or imagine a scene where we meet Bond's opposite number in Russia: a superspy to rival our own 007. We see a couple in bed, and suddenly a secret radio in the bedside cabinet sparks to life, the KGB chief on the other end asking for his top agent. The ruggedly handsome, hairy chested man reaches to the radio... and gets up! Allowing his beautiful female lover to answer the call! It turns out she's Agent XXX! A woman!!

Oh hang on, they did this years ago and it was fine.

Now that I'm down for

00Agent

Univex wrote: »

doubleonothing wrote: »

The_Reaper wrote: »

doubleonothing wrote: »

The_Reaper wrote: »

doubleonothing wrote: »

The_Reaper wrote: »

So if Superman had been a black female for the past 80 years the character would be as successful and globally recognized as it is today? Really?

Sadly, we both know the answer is that a black female Superman would not have been as successful or globally recognised. And we probably both know that’s down to inherent racism and sexism in society. Because people such as yourself would decry a black female Superman, just as you’re decrying a black female secret agent. Should there have been better representations in our media? Absolutely. Perhaps if there had been we wouldn’t still be arguing whether a black person in a film role was a good or bad thing. Because - I can almost not believe it - that’s what we’re doing here.

You ask why change the race or gender if it doesn’t matter? Well, that’s a good question. It doesn’t matter if, say, Moneypenny is black or white. That has no bearing on her as a character. But look around. How many black female characters are there? Very, very few. So, if it doesn’t matter either way whether they’re black if white, then just because of the fact they are so badly represented, they should be black. How can you not see that?

Who cares how many there are? Why does representation in a FICTIONAL world matter? For me, as a biracial person (Mexican father, American mother), seeing someone on screen that looks like me means less than nothing. I enjoy superheroes and characters like James Bond because they are fun, exciting, well-written archetypes.

Let's go further with the Superman example. He's 6' 4", dark hair, handsome, etc. Oh, and an alien! He looks nothing like me (or most people) and so what? I still love him as a character because of his other traits. Also, how far would you be willing to go in regards to changing a character? If Supes was played by someone 5' 1" with red hair, would he still be the same character? His physical characteristics don't matter in this case, right? He would still have super powers, still be strong, have flight, be bulletproof, etc, correct? He could be the size of a baby and still pound villains into the ground with ease.

Again, how far can we change a character until it's not the same character?

Okay, let’s go point by point.
1) Why does representation in a fictional world matter? Because our media is what shapes our cultural and societal viewpoints. If women and people of colour are under-represented, or represented in a negative light in media and entertainment, that’s how we are informing our society. The fact that you are bi-racial and personally don’t care about how you’re represented is ignoring the fact that many people do care and it affects them in the real world. To believe otherwise is naive. Representation means “less than nothing” to you, so it should mean the same to millions of others who are marginalised and disenfranchised? That’s literally saying “doesn’t bother me so why should I care?” Being bi-racial doesn’t make that stance any more palatable.

2) This whole “what if Superman was a 5’ 1” redhead?” argument is ridiculous. And you know why? Because we’ve already had it with Bond. The physical archetype for Bond is over 6’, dark hair, and movie star handsome. That’s how Fleming wrote him. He also wrote him as a character who smoked 50 a day and did drugs to stay focused. Craig’s Bond is under 6’. He’s blond and, (no disrespect to Mr. Craig), he’s not conventionally handsome. He doesn’t smoke or do drugs. On top of which, they entirely re-wrote his backstory. Oh, yeah, remember that this is an entirely different character now. He’s not even supposed to be the same Bond that Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton, and Brosnan played. You asked how far we can change a character before it’s not the same character anymore? They already did it.

Again, how far is too far?

So, let’s just get this straight. They’ve cast a black woman in the role of a “00” agent. She’s not Bond, nor is she likely to be “007” after this film. She’s literally taken his number after Bond retired and has been gone for a few years. And this is what you’re losing your lunch over? If anyone has gone too far, I’d say it’s you.

I still don't understand how people are misunderstanding this. Pure fear? Or plain stupidity? Or both.

If Connery's Bond had the same thing happening to him, with an Emma Peel type in the 60s, that would make for some fun, wouldn't it? I bet we'd love to see that. I would have.

Just shows you how brainwashed and oversensitive people have become through constant media bombarding and tabloid clickbait manipulation. A lot of people seem to believe there is some new world order feminist overtake of Hollywood happening and everyone is part of it, when in reality there is barelly a buisness case for it.
I hear people say "they are pandering to the SJW crowd". Which crowd?! You mean the crowd that didn't show up for neither ghostbusters nor oceans eight? There is no freaking crowd, every movie is a risk.
Some stories simply evolve naturally. Lots of people have already said Nomi taking the 007 number is one of the most natural scenarios in this case. Sure they are playing a little bit with the public perception but in a fun way. They have always done that, this is nothing new really.
At this rate i'm expecting news articles in one year from now asking "Is Bond 25 turning our kids gay?"
And then we are back in the 50's and everyone is f***ing crazy.

barryt007

RogueAgent wrote: »

So will the PTS be about the new 007 then? No James Bond at all? How about it being Nomi doing the Gun Barrel sequence?!!! Will everyone be cool about those two possibilities? Especially seeing as this is Daniel's final outing?

No,no and no.


.................................................................................................................

Personally,i'm looking forward to the Bond I know and love coming back,to follow on from his latest mission in DAD.
I mean,talking about the Bond's : THIS NEVER HAPPENED TO THE OTHER FELLA'S.

matt_u

barryt007 wrote: »

RogueAgent wrote: »

So will the PTS be about the new 007 then? No James Bond at all? How about it being Nomi doing the Gun Barrel sequence?!!! Will everyone be cool about those two possibilities? Especially seeing as this is Daniel's final outing?

No,no and no.

+1!!!

Fortunately those two possibilities are not going to happen.

Bounine

I was going to mention the ‘Forever and a Day’ novel but MI6 beat me too it. :)

https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/bond-25-lashana-lynch-007?id=04531

Personally, I don’t see what the big deal is. I like the idea...as long as James Bond, whether it’s Craig or another James Bond actor becomes 007 again. I’d certainly be surprised if this didn’t happen.

I do think that James Bond should always be a caucasian male. That’s how Fleming created him in the fifties and he’s such an iconic character who has been around for so long. It would be absurd to cast anyone who isn’t this.

One thing is that unless the dialogue and acting is very natural and doesn’t feel forced then it’s going to be like a parody. Male/female equality is one thing but having the feminist movement forced down our throats is absolutely, 100% taking things too far. I’m not suggesting that this will happen but hypothetically...if it does, this movie will be laughable.

Good lord, they would have all lost the plot if this lady was in the gun barrel sequence! LOL.

fanbond123

Surely this is Eon having their cake and eating it (mind the calories!).

Barbara Broccoli has made it clear there won't be a female James Bond:

Speaking to the Guardian, 007’s executive producer Barbara Broccoli ruled out any Doctor Who-style gender reinvention for Ian Fleming’s super-spy.

“Bond is male,” she said. “He’s a male character. He was written as a male and I think he’ll probably stay as a male.

“And that’s fine. We don’t have to turn male characters into women. Let’s just create more female characters and make the story fit those female characters.”

....however if we can make a woman (Lashana Lynch) agent have the prefix 007 and still keep Bond as 007 - they can have their female Bond and Babs can say in Bond 25 press interviews "we're not getting rid of James Bond, merely expanding the role. 007, the codename given to Bond, doesn't have to apply to one person."

As is the case with much of life it comes down to how cynical you want to be. If you are naturally cynical about life you'll conclude this is a cynical way to make Bond more relevant, more politically correct, more appealing to the female demographic. After all, B Brococli wants another one billion dollar Bond film. A female 007 may be the way to add more to the worldwide gross.

If you don't rate cynicism that highly and think most people act with noble intention you'll probably react with "this is a great idea, a female 007 agent and Bond too - two for the price of one!"

Bond 25:

Bond returns from retirement and enters M's office. Standing in the office is the new 007. A tall black woman: Miss Nomi.

"Ah, Bond, meet the new 007."

"New, sir?"

"Yes, we thought you'd retired for good. You went off the grid in Jamaica. We can't have our best 00 dormant. What would the taxpayers say? It was necessary to assign your 00 prefix to Miss Nomi."

Miss Nomi extends her hand in friendship.

"Good morning, Commander Bond."

"If you're 007 and I'm 007 that must make us 0014?"

"That joke was removed from the last draft of the screenplay, Bond."

"Sorry, sir."

I may be proven wrong but I think it was a mistake for Eon and Craig (I think it was his suggestion?) to get Waller-Bridge on board. No women writers, please. A woman writer is likely to be influenced by the metoo generation. Fair enough, women deserve to be treated equally but James Bond is the last bastion of male chauvinism, sexism, even misogyny. It's part of his DNA and that shouldn't be compromised or ignored.

Torgeirtrap

Bounine wrote: »

I was going to mention the ‘Forever and a Day’ novel but MI6 beat me too it. :)

This is only reminder how much I want Anthony Horowitz to write a Bond screenplay.

Univex

As anyone thought that this 007 thing destroys the James Bond 007 code name theory once and for all?

Think about it. If the "007" is the code, the name isn't. Not that this needed explaining. And not that the code name theory isn't total bollocks, from the dirty mind of the worst director this franchise has ever had. Still, it puts that one to bed, doesn't it?

Good for us!

Bounine

Torgeirtrap wrote: »

Bounine wrote: »

I was going to mention the ‘Forever and a Day’ novel but MI6 beat me too it. :)

This is only reminder how much I want Anthony Horowitz to write a Bond screenplay.

Absolutely. He should be hired from the beginning and then maybe we would avoid all the numerous writers/disjointed plot stuff.

peter

fanbond123 wrote: »

Surely this is Eon having their cake and eating it (mind the calories!).

Barbara Broccoli has made it clear there won't be a female James Bond:

Speaking to the Guardian, 007’s executive producer Barbara Broccoli ruled out any Doctor Who-style gender reinvention for Ian Fleming’s super-spy.

“Bond is male,” she said. “He’s a male character. He was written as a male and I think he’ll probably stay as a male.

“And that’s fine. We don’t have to turn male characters into women. Let’s just create more female characters and make the story fit those female characters.”

....however if we can make a woman (Lashana Lynch) agent have the prefix 007 and still keep Bond as 007 - they can have their female Bond and Babs can say in Bond 25 press interviews "we're not getting rid of James Bond, merely expanding the role. 007, the codename given to Bond, doesn't have to apply to one person."

As is the case with much of life it comes down to how cynical you want to be. If you are naturally cynical about life you'll conclude this is a cynical way to make Bond more relevant, more politically correct, more appealing to the female demographic. After all, B Brococli wants another one billion dollar Bond film. A female 007 may be the way to add more to the worldwide gross.

If you don't rate cynicism that highly and think most people act with noble intention you'll probably react with "this is a great idea, a female 007 agent and Bond too - two for the price of one!"

Bond 25:

Bond returns from retirement and enters M's office. Standing in the office is the new 007. A tall black woman: Miss Nomi.

"Ah, Bond, meet the new 007."

"New, sir?"

"Yes, we thought you'd retired for good. You went off the grid in Jamaica. We can't have our best 00 dormant. What would the taxpayers say? It was necessary to assign your 00 prefix to Miss Nomi."

Miss Nomi extends her hand in friendship.

"Good morning, Commander Bond."

"If you're 007 and I'm 007 that must make us 0014?"

"That joke was removed from the last draft of the screenplay, Bond."

"Sorry, sir."

I may be proven wrong but I think it was a mistake for Eon and Craig (I think it was his suggestion?) to get Waller-Bridge on board. No women writers, please. A woman writer is likely to be influenced by the metoo generation. Fair enough, women deserve to be treated equally but James Bond is the last bastion of male chauvinism, sexism, even misogyny. It's part of his DNA and that shouldn't be compromised or ignored.

James Bond is not a misogynist. A misogynist is someone who has contempt for women. Bond's problem is that he's a hedonist.

And as for PWB being hired, it was a stroke of genius. She's one of the most gifted writers working and has a knack for organically putting characters into original and uncomfortable situations. Her choices are quite unique and against the grain of expectations. She's able to take scenarios we've seen before and give them fresh and original twists.

In short, she's explained her vision of Bond and it's the best thing I've heard about the character in a long time: he doesn't have to change, he must stay true to his character.

That shows she has a great understanding of the man as Fleming wrote him: "Bond knew that there was something alien and un-English about himself." He's an outsider, firmly committed to who he is. So, as the world changes, whether post-War England, or today with MeToo, James Bond doesn't change.

We should all sigh great relief, @fanbond123 , when the lead writer is saying this about our favourite British Agent.

fanbond123

Univex wrote: »

As anyone thought that this 007 thing destroys the James Bond 007 code name theory once and for all?

Think about it. If the "007" is the code, the name isn't. Not that this needed explaining. And not that the code name theory isn't total bollocks, from the dirty mind of the worst director this franchise has ever had. Still, it puts that one to bed, doesn't it?

Good for us!

My head hurts just thinking about it! I don't like the idea of there being more than 'one' 007. That's my issue with the concept. If this news is true then we're getting two 007s in Bond 25. That is diluting the character because we've had one 007 for 24 films. Why abandon that simple concept? It's no different to Craig's first gun barrel in a toilet (wrong!), or QOS starting without a gun barrel (wrong!) or Skyfall starting with no gun barrel (wrong!). This is a deliberate deconstruction of the franchise. Yes, evolution is necessary. If evolution never happened we'd still be using old internet browsers and phones and my video recorder would still be taping old Bond films off the tv. ;) Things change. I get that but 007 belongs to one man and one man only - James Bond.

Some things should never change. Fans should have emailed Eon Productions (do they have an email, I suppose so!) and said "no, Casino Royale should not have started with a gun barrel in a toilet." Fans didn't care enough and I guess not enough fans will care if or when Nomi (or whatever her name is) walks into M's office and M refers to her as 007. No-one cares enough anymore. Disinterest or whatever you want to call it is Eon's best weapon. You can do what you like when you know a tiny percentage of fans will moan.

“This is a Bond for the modern era who will appeal to a younger generation while sticking true to what we all expect in a Bond film,” the source added. “There are spectacular chase sequences and fights, and Bond is still Bond but he’s having to learn to deal with the world of #MeToo.”

I expect lots of politically correct banter. Bond and Nomi approach Bond's car. Bond is about to enter the driver's side. Nomi says

"Under new equality laws, a female 00 has the right to drive, Mr Bond."

Oh great, can't wait for all this female entitlement nonsense! :P

It's gonna happen cos Waller-Bridge was signed up to rewrite it and she will put a female angle onto the plot and dialogue. It's gonna happen.

Torgeirtrap

Bounine wrote: »

Torgeirtrap wrote: »

Bounine wrote: »

I was going to mention the ‘Forever and a Day’ novel but MI6 beat me too it. :)

This is only reminder how much I want Anthony Horowitz to write a Bond screenplay.

Absolutely. He should be hired from the beginning and then maybe we would avoid all the numerous writers/disjointed plot stuff.

There's always Bond 26!

matt_u

Do you think the name Nomi is an homage to Fukunaga's menthor? Screenwriter and director Naomi Foner Gyllenhaal?

Bounine

fanbond123 wrote: »

Surely this is Eon having their cake and eating it (mind the calories!).

Barbara Broccoli has made it clear there won't be a female James Bond:

Speaking to the Guardian, 007’s executive producer Barbara Broccoli ruled out any Doctor Who-style gender reinvention for Ian Fleming’s super-spy.

“Bond is male,” she said. “He’s a male character. He was written as a male and I think he’ll probably stay as a male.

“And that’s fine. We don’t have to turn male characters into women. Let’s just create more female characters and make the story fit those female characters.”

....however if we can make a woman (Lashana Lynch) agent have the prefix 007 and still keep Bond as 007 - they can have their female Bond and Babs can say in Bond 25 press interviews "we're not getting rid of James Bond, merely expanding the role. 007, the codename given to Bond, doesn't have to apply to one person."

As is the case with much of life it comes down to how cynical you want to be. If you are naturally cynical about life you'll conclude this is a cynical way to make Bond more relevant, more politically correct, more appealing to the female demographic. After all, B Brococli wants another one billion dollar Bond film. A female 007 may be the way to add more to the worldwide gross.

If you don't rate cynicism that highly and think most people act with noble intention you'll probably react with "this is a great idea, a female 007 agent and Bond too - two for the price of one!"

Bond 25:

Bond returns from retirement and enters M's office. Standing in the office is the new 007. A tall black woman: Miss Nomi.

"Ah, Bond, meet the new 007."

"New, sir?"

"Yes, we thought you'd retired for good. You went off the grid in Jamaica. We can't have our best 00 dormant. What would the taxpayers say? It was necessary to assign your 00 prefix to Miss Nomi."

Miss Nomi extends her hand in friendship.

"Good morning, Commander Bond."

"If you're 007 and I'm 007 that must make us 0014?"

"That joke was removed from the last draft of the screenplay, Bond."

"Sorry, sir."

I may be proven wrong but I think it was a mistake for Eon and Craig (I think it was his suggestion?) to get Waller-Bridge on board. No women writers, please. A woman writer is likely to be influenced by the metoo generation. Fair enough, women deserve to be treated equally but James Bond is the last bastion of male chauvinism, sexism, even misogyny. It's part of his DNA and that shouldn't be compromised or ignored.

Bridge said in an interview that she hadn’t compromised the Bond character. I hope that this is the case otherwise it’ll be another cock up. As I said, the dialogue and acting better be good and natural...

It’s good to have strong female characters but who aren’t without vulnerabilities, just like with Bond and both facets need to be showcased.

Yes, in the world of Bond, the double 0 prefix is a code number randomly assigned to active agents who have proven themselves. In the literary world, if I remember correctly, there are three in the service who have earned the double 0 digits.

Pierce2Daniel

Jeffrey Wright has come out to support Lashana after Ben Shapiro has tried to politicise the debate.



Having read through this forum, it seems clea to me that most members understand the story point and get what Eon are doing. However, there are a handful of vocal individuals arguing against it. Maybe 3 people.

So I'd say the consensus is very broadly in favour of this story, it's just a very noisy minority shouting loudly.

i'd love to do a poll - based off the age of the member and there opinion.

Break it down into 4 catergories:

1. Strongly Agree
2. Mostly Agree
3. Disagree
4. Strongly Disagree

Then place your username alongside your age. It might generate some very interesting statistical data. I'll start:

Torgeirtrap

matt_u wrote: »

Do you kind the name Nomi is an homage to Fukunaga's menthor? Screenwriter and director Naomi Foner Gyllenhaal?

Wouldn't surprise me if that was true. I personally love it when they name a character in honour of someone. The same happened in LALD with Kananga too, didn't it?

Pierce2Daniel wrote: »

Jeffrey Wright has come out to support Lashana after Ben Shapiro has tried to politicise the debate.

Quality tweet by Jeffrey Wright.

matt_u

Torgeirtrap wrote: »

matt_u wrote: »

Do you kind the name Nomi is an homage to Fukunaga's menthor? Screenwriter and director Naomi Foner Gyllenhaal?

Wouldn't surprise me if that was true. I personally love it when they name a character in honour of someone. The same happened in LALD with Kananga too, didn't it?

Of course I wanted to type *do you think*.

I think there's some truth in it. Don't know about Kananga, honestly.

RC7

fanbond123 wrote: »

Univex wrote: »

As anyone thought that this 007 thing destroys the James Bond 007 code name theory once and for all?

Think about it. If the "007" is the code, the name isn't. Not that this needed explaining. And not that the code name theory isn't total bollocks, from the dirty mind of the worst director this franchise has ever had. Still, it puts that one to bed, doesn't it?

Good for us!

My head hurts just thinking about it! I don't like the idea of there being more than 'one' 007. That's my issue with the concept. If this news is true then we're getting two 007s in Bond 25. That is diluting the character because we've had one 007 for 24 films. Why abandon that simple concept? It's no different to Craig's first gun barrel in a toilet (wrong!), or QOS starting without a gun barrel (wrong!) or Skyfall starting with no gun barrel (wrong!). This is a deliberate deconstruction of the franchise. Yes, evolution is necessary. If evolution never happened we'd still be using old internet browsers and phones and my video recorder would still be taping old Bond films off the tv. ;) Things change. I get that but 007 belongs to one man and one man only - James Bond.

Some things should never change. Fans should have emailed Eon Productions (do they have an email, I suppose so!) and said "no, Casino Royale should not have started with a gun barrel in a toilet." Fans didn't care enough and I guess not enough fans will care if or when Nomi (or whatever her name is) walks into M's office and M refers to her as 007. No-one cares enough anymore. Disinterest or whatever you want to call it is Eon's best weapon. You can do what you like when you know a tiny percentage of fans will moan.

“This is a Bond for the modern era who will appeal to a younger generation while sticking true to what we all expect in a Bond film,” the source added. “There are spectacular chase sequences and fights, and Bond is still Bond but he’s having to learn to deal with the world of #MeToo.”

I expect lots of politically correct banter. Bond and Nomi approach Bond's car. Bond is about to enter the driver's side. Nomi says

"Under new equality laws, a female 00 has the right to drive, Mr Bond."

Oh great, can't wait for all this female entitlement nonsense! :P

It's gonna happen cos Waller-Bridge was signed up to rewrite it and she will put a female angle onto the plot and dialogue. It's gonna happen.

You’ve clearly never seen PWB’s work.

matt_u

I'm sure the Nomi been 007 angle was decided way before PWB entered the project.

Torgeirtrap

matt_u wrote: »

Torgeirtrap wrote: »

matt_u wrote: »

Do you kind the name Nomi is an homage to Fukunaga's menthor? Screenwriter and director Naomi Foner Gyllenhaal?

Wouldn't surprise me if that was true. I personally love it when they name a character in honour of someone. The same happened in LALD with Kananga too, didn't it?

Of course I wanted to type *do you think*.

I think there's some truth in it. Don't know about Kananga, honestly.

Just checked, the name Kananga came from Ross Kananga:
"While searching for locations in Jamaica, the crew discovered a crocodile farm owned by Ross Kananga, after passing a sign warning that "trespassers will be eaten". The farm was put into the script and also inspired Mankiewicz to name the film's villain after Kananga."

He also did the crocodile stunt:
"Ross Kananga suggested the stunt of Bond jumping on crocodiles, and was enlisted by the producers to perform it. The scene took five takes to be completed, including one in which the last crocodile snapped at Kananga's heel, tearing his trousers."

So, it wouldn't be the first time for a character to be named in honour of someone. ;-)

Pierce2Daniel

fanbond123 wrote: »

Univex wrote: »

As anyone thought that this 007 thing destroys the James Bond 007 code name theory once and for all?

Think about it. If the "007" is the code, the name isn't. Not that this needed explaining. And not that the code name theory isn't total bollocks, from the dirty mind of the worst director this franchise has ever had. Still, it puts that one to bed, doesn't it?

Good for us!

My head hurts just thinking about it! I don't like the idea of there being more than 'one' 007. That's my issue with the concept. If this news is true then we're getting two 007s in Bond 25. That is diluting the character because we've had one 007 for 24 films. Why abandon that simple concept? It's no different to Craig's first gun barrel in a toilet (wrong!), or QOS starting without a gun barrel (wrong!) or Skyfall starting with no gun barrel (wrong!). This is a deliberate deconstruction of the franchise. Yes, evolution is necessary. If evolution never happened we'd still be using old internet browsers and phones and my video recorder would still be taping old Bond films off the tv. ;) Things change. I get that but 007 belongs to one man and one man only - James Bond.

Some things should never change. Fans should have emailed Eon Productions (do they have an email, I suppose so!) and said "no, Casino Royale should not have started with a gun barrel in a toilet." Fans didn't care enough and I guess not enough fans will care if or when Nomi (or whatever her name is) walks into M's office and M refers to her as 007. No-one cares enough anymore. Disinterest or whatever you want to call it is Eon's best weapon. You can do what you like when you know a tiny percentage of fans will moan.

“This is a Bond for the modern era who will appeal to a younger generation while sticking true to what we all expect in a Bond film,” the source added. “There are spectacular chase sequences and fights, and Bond is still Bond but he’s having to learn to deal with the world of #MeToo.”

I expect lots of politically correct banter. Bond and Nomi approach Bond's car. Bond is about to enter the driver's side. Nomi says

"Under new equality laws, a female 00 has the right to drive, Mr Bond."

Oh great, can't wait for all this female entitlement nonsense! :P

It's gonna happen cos Waller-Bridge was signed up to rewrite it and she will put a female angle onto the plot and dialogue. It's gonna happen.

The decision to move the gunbarrel and incorporate it into Bond's first kill was ingenious. It perfectly played into the character's creation myth. They used a key piece of iconography and gave it a great thematic and character-driven context. The hardship placed on Bond doing that kill and the first flash of blood being symbolic of the significant change his life had taken as a result of that decision.

The reason it's no longer controversial - is because it was inspired. The idea was controversial but the execution was perfect.

I overheard people in the pub on Saturday talking about their favourite Bond and someone bought up the toilet fight and how from that moment they were hooked on Daniel's Bond.

Also, your point about "equality laws" is so off-base. Equality legislation protects both men and women (predominately in the workplace) - it doesn't allow women to drive. Lol.

Bounine

Pierce2Daniel wrote: »

fanbond123 wrote: »

Univex wrote: »

As anyone thought that this 007 thing destroys the James Bond 007 code name theory once and for all?

Think about it. If the "007" is the code, the name isn't. Not that this needed explaining. And not that the code name theory isn't total bollocks, from the dirty mind of the worst director this franchise has ever had. Still, it puts that one to bed, doesn't it?

Good for us!

My head hurts just thinking about it! I don't like the idea of there being more than 'one' 007. That's my issue with the concept. If this news is true then we're getting two 007s in Bond 25. That is diluting the character because we've had one 007 for 24 films. Why abandon that simple concept? It's no different to Craig's first gun barrel in a toilet (wrong!), or QOS starting without a gun barrel (wrong!) or Skyfall starting with no gun barrel (wrong!). This is a deliberate deconstruction of the franchise. Yes, evolution is necessary. If evolution never happened we'd still be using old internet browsers and phones and my video recorder would still be taping old Bond films off the tv. ;) Things change. I get that but 007 belongs to one man and one man only - James Bond.

Some things should never change. Fans should have emailed Eon Productions (do they have an email, I suppose so!) and said "no, Casino Royale should not have started with a gun barrel in a toilet." Fans didn't care enough and I guess not enough fans will care if or when Nomi (or whatever her name is) walks into M's office and M refers to her as 007. No-one cares enough anymore. Disinterest or whatever you want to call it is Eon's best weapon. You can do what you like when you know a tiny percentage of fans will moan.

“This is a Bond for the modern era who will appeal to a younger generation while sticking true to what we all expect in a Bond film,” the source added. “There are spectacular chase sequences and fights, and Bond is still Bond but he’s having to learn to deal with the world of #MeToo.”

I expect lots of politically correct banter. Bond and Nomi approach Bond's car. Bond is about to enter the driver's side. Nomi says

"Under new equality laws, a female 00 has the right to drive, Mr Bond."

Oh great, can't wait for all this female entitlement nonsense! :P

It's gonna happen cos Waller-Bridge was signed up to rewrite it and she will put a female angle onto the plot and dialogue. It's gonna happen.

The decision to move the gunbarrel and incorporate it into Bond's first kill was ingenious. It perfectly played into the character's creation myth. They used a key piece of iconography and gave it a great thematic and character-driven context. The hardship placed on Bond doing that kill and the first flash of blood being symbolic of the significant change his life had taken as a result of that decision.

The reason it's no longer controversial - is because it was inspired. The idea was controversial but the execution was perfect.

I overheard people in the pub on Saturday talking about their favourite Bond and someone bought up the toilet fight and how from that moment they were hooked on Daniel's Bond.

Also, your point about "equality laws" is so off-base. Equality legislation protects both men and women (predominately in the workplace) - it doesn't allow women to drive. Lol.

I can’t help thinking that they got that great WC fight from the excellent 1997 film ‘The Assignment’.

matt_u

Pierce2Daniel wrote: »

fanbond123 wrote: »

Univex wrote: »

As anyone thought that this 007 thing destroys the James Bond 007 code name theory once and for all?

Think about it. If the "007" is the code, the name isn't. Not that this needed explaining. And not that the code name theory isn't total bollocks, from the dirty mind of the worst director this franchise has ever had. Still, it puts that one to bed, doesn't it?

Good for us!

My head hurts just thinking about it! I don't like the idea of there being more than 'one' 007. That's my issue with the concept. If this news is true then we're getting two 007s in Bond 25. That is diluting the character because we've had one 007 for 24 films. Why abandon that simple concept? It's no different to Craig's first gun barrel in a toilet (wrong!), or QOS starting without a gun barrel (wrong!) or Skyfall starting with no gun barrel (wrong!). This is a deliberate deconstruction of the franchise. Yes, evolution is necessary. If evolution never happened we'd still be using old internet browsers and phones and my video recorder would still be taping old Bond films off the tv. ;) Things change. I get that but 007 belongs to one man and one man only - James Bond.

Some things should never change. Fans should have emailed Eon Productions (do they have an email, I suppose so!) and said "no, Casino Royale should not have started with a gun barrel in a toilet." Fans didn't care enough and I guess not enough fans will care if or when Nomi (or whatever her name is) walks into M's office and M refers to her as 007. No-one cares enough anymore. Disinterest or whatever you want to call it is Eon's best weapon. You can do what you like when you know a tiny percentage of fans will moan.

“This is a Bond for the modern era who will appeal to a younger generation while sticking true to what we all expect in a Bond film,” the source added. “There are spectacular chase sequences and fights, and Bond is still Bond but he’s having to learn to deal with the world of #MeToo.”

I expect lots of politically correct banter. Bond and Nomi approach Bond's car. Bond is about to enter the driver's side. Nomi says

"Under new equality laws, a female 00 has the right to drive, Mr Bond."

Oh great, can't wait for all this female entitlement nonsense! :P

It's gonna happen cos Waller-Bridge was signed up to rewrite it and she will put a female angle onto the plot and dialogue. It's gonna happen.

The decision to move the gunbarrel and incorporate it into Bond's first kill was ingenious. It perfectly played into the character's creation myth. They used a key piece of iconography and gave it a great thematic and character-driven context. The hardship placed on Bond doing that kill and the first flash of blood being symbolic of the significant change his life had taken as a result of that decision.

The reason it's no longer controversial - is because it was inspired. The idea was controversial but the execution was perfect.

I overheard people in the pub on Saturday talking about their favourite Bond and someone bought up the toilet fight and how from that moment they were hooked on Daniel's Bond.

Also, your point about "equality laws" is so off-base. Equality legislation protects both men and women (predominately in the workplace) - it doesn't allow women to drive. Lol.

+1!

Torgeirtrap wrote: »

matt_u wrote: »

Torgeirtrap wrote: »

matt_u wrote: »

Do you kind the name Nomi is an homage to Fukunaga's menthor? Screenwriter and director Naomi Foner Gyllenhaal?

Wouldn't surprise me if that was true. I personally love it when they name a character in honour of someone. The same happened in LALD with Kananga too, didn't it?

Of course I wanted to type *do you think*.

I think there's some truth in it. Don't know about Kananga, honestly.

Just checked, the name Kananga came from Ross Kananga:
"While searching for locations in Jamaica, the crew discovered a crocodile farm owned by Ross Kananga, after passing a sign warning that "trespassers will be eaten". The farm was put into the script and also inspired Mankiewicz to name the film's villain after Kananga."

He also did the crocodile stunt:
"Ross Kananga suggested the stunt of Bond jumping on crocodiles, and was enlisted by the producers to perform it. The scene took five takes to be completed, including one in which the last crocodile snapped at Kananga's heel, tearing his trousers."

So, it wouldn't be the first time for a character to be named in honour of someone. ;-)

Thanks, good to know!

barryt007

matt_u wrote: »

Torgeirtrap wrote: »

matt_u wrote: »

Do you kind the name Nomi is an homage to Fukunaga's menthor? Screenwriter and director Naomi Foner Gyllenhaal?

Wouldn't surprise me if that was true. I personally love it when they name a character in honour of someone. The same happened in LALD with Kananga too, didn't it?

Of course I wanted to type *do you think*.

I think there's some truth in it. Don't know about Kananga, honestly.

Yep,it was Ross Kananga,who let the crew use his crocodile farm.

CatchingBullets

Zekidk wrote: »

CatchingBullets wrote: »

To clarify with some sanity.
(...)
Phoebe-Waller Bridge is NOT a 'feminist' writer.

But:
"James Bond will be turned into a ‘#metoo feminist icon’ thanks to feisty Bond girls and Fleabag writer Phoebe Waller-Bridge. 007 is set to get dragged into the 21st Century with a feminist makeover"
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/8942445/james-bond-feminist-icon-fleabag-phoebe-waller-bridge/

I would say that we are way past just a "gimmick" here.

Okay.... are we REALLY citing a report from THE SUN as being a counter argument to comments and an understanding of just where Phoebe-Waller Bridge is coming from in her writing and creativity?!! Because that is beyond hilarious. It is more EXACTLY why lemmings jump over cliffs in sheep costumes.

ToTheRight

I must admit, I really am enjoying reading the comments on other non-Bond movie websites (as well as Facebook) and experiencing how many gullible souls truly believe Lashana's version of 007 is officially taking over the franchise. Craig it seems, now only appears as a cameo in the film. LOL!!!!!


Sadly, many movie-goers are turning away from this film boycotting it with such disdain the CraigNotBond B.S. era couldn't even imagine.
I guess that's what happens when you only read a headline and jump to conclusions.

The inner Bond villain in me wants to create an even more absurd rumor just to play on people's gullibility.

If you wanted to, you could create your own absurd Bond rumor just like I do.

Name it.

Name it!

Jim Carey has been cast as Bond. Bip.

Tanner is taking over the franchise. Bip.

The gunbarrel will be in the middle of the movie. Bip.

jake24

Torgeirtrap wrote: »

matt_u wrote: »

Do you kind the name Nomi is an homage to Fukunaga's menthor? Screenwriter and director Naomi Foner Gyllenhaal?

Wouldn't surprise me if that was true. I personally love it when they name a character in honour of someone. The same happened in LALD with Kananga too, didn't it?

Pierce2Daniel wrote: »

Jeffrey Wright has come out to support Lashana after Ben Shapiro has tried to politicise the debate.

Quality tweet by Jeffrey Wright.

Gotta love Jeffrey Wright.

M_Balje

I sugest to drop his number before and also not use Ian Fleming. Insteed i wil bring producers present credit back.

With Spectre 009 mind i see it as option he/she take his number, because he take the car. And be so far a way from the world/deprest, that is not avaible. Oberhouser turn out his stepbrother is a bigger problem. The name and his number the villians stil should get cold feet and everbody rings a bell. This bells of hell of the villian should be tricked already. Was the bell from QOS and DAD not big enough.

matt_u

ToTheRight wrote: »

I must admit, I really am enjoying reading the comments on other non-Bond movie websites (as well as Facebook) and experiencing how many gullible souls truly believe Lashana's version of 007 is officially taking over the franchise. Craig it seems, now only appears as a cameo in the film. LOL!!!!!


Sadly, many movie-goers are turning away from this film boycotting it with such disdain the CraigNotBond B.S. era couldn't even imagine.
I guess that's what happens when you only read a headline and jump to conclusions.

The inner Bond villain in me wants to create an even more absurd rumor just to play on people's gullibility.

If you wanted to, you could create your own absurd Bond rumor just like I do.

Name it.

Name it!

Jim Carey has been cast as Bond. Bip.

Tanner is taking over the franchise. Bip.

The gunbarrel will be in the middle of the movie. Bip.

A lot of friends of mine called me and texted me today and last night and they were like: "WTF they're making JAMES BOND a woman? WTF! Tell me it's not true!".

There's a lot of misinformation because the majority of TV programs are reporting the news incorrectly.

echo

fanbond123 wrote: »

Univex wrote: »

As anyone thought that this 007 thing destroys the James Bond 007 code name theory once and for all?

Think about it. If the "007" is the code, the name isn't. Not that this needed explaining. And not that the code name theory isn't total bollocks, from the dirty mind of the worst director this franchise has ever had. Still, it puts that one to bed, doesn't it?

Good for us!

My head hurts just thinking about it! I don't like the idea of there being more than 'one' 007. That's my issue with the concept. If this news is true then we're getting two 007s in Bond 25. That is diluting the character because we've had one 007 for 24 films. Why abandon that simple concept? It's no different to Craig's first gun barrel in a toilet (wrong!), or QOS starting without a gun barrel (wrong!) or Skyfall starting with no gun barrel (wrong!). This is a deliberate deconstruction of the franchise. Yes, evolution is necessary. If evolution never happened we'd still be using old internet browsers and phones and my video recorder would still be taping old Bond films off the tv. ;) Things change. I get that but 007 belongs to one man and one man only - James Bond.

Some things should never change. Fans should have emailed Eon Productions (do they have an email, I suppose so!) and said "no, Casino Royale should not have started with a gun barrel in a toilet." Fans didn't care enough and I guess not enough fans will care if or when Nomi (or whatever her name is) walks into M's office and M refers to her as 007. No-one cares enough anymore. Disinterest or whatever you want to call it is Eon's best weapon. You can do what you like when you know a tiny percentage of fans will moan.

“This is a Bond for the modern era who will appeal to a younger generation while sticking true to what we all expect in a Bond film,” the source added. “There are spectacular chase sequences and fights, and Bond is still Bond but he’s having to learn to deal with the world of #MeToo.”

I expect lots of politically correct banter. Bond and Nomi approach Bond's car. Bond is about to enter the driver's side. Nomi says

"Under new equality laws, a female 00 has the right to drive, Mr Bond."

Oh great, can't wait for all this female entitlement nonsense! :P

It's gonna happen cos Waller-Bridge was signed up to rewrite it and she will put a female angle onto the plot and dialogue. It's gonna happen.

Careful, your sexism is showing.