Christopher Nolan - Appreciation Thread

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  • Posts: 6,710
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    All right, I finally saw Oppenheimer and loved it. Had it too built up in my mind, didn't think I'd ever get around to seeing it, let alone enjoying it as much as I did, but nah, it was really fantastic from start to finish. Yes, you can do a three hour, dialogue-heavy film and make it as engrossing as that was. I needed that from Nolan after the fetid dud that was Tenet.
    Christopher Nolan had long since joined the echelon of the greatest directors in film history. The Oscar win only reaffirmed it. Not saying he's David Lean or Alfred Hitchcock, but he can easily sit at their table.

    My feelings exactly, my friends.
  • Posts: 4,299
    Perhaps this is controversial to say, but I often think heaping certain directors into that ‘greatest of all time’ category has its problems. Often I’ve found it can be a way of dismissing what people perceive as a popular director’s flaws (and they all have them as no director has a perfect career, nor films that everyone will like. I’d personally say that compared to Hitchcock and particularity Lean Nolan is much less accomplished and has been prone to some bad filmmaking throughout his career).

    But I guess it’s unavoidable, and whatever I think of Nolan he’s made some films I love and clearly others do too. And objectively he’s one of the most successful directors of all time.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,215
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    All right, I finally saw Oppenheimer and loved it. Had it too built up in my mind, didn't think I'd ever get around to seeing it, let alone enjoying it as much as I did, but nah, it was really fantastic from start to finish. Yes, you can do a three hour, dialogue-heavy film and make it as engrossing as that was. I needed that from Nolan after the fetid dud that was Tenet.

    TENET really brought him down for me in my estimation at the time. Glad he was able to bounce back. Another relief for me was the sound mixing. TENET seemed to be the worst of his sound mixing method where seemingly important information being relayed was muffled by people wearing masks or just being drowned out by music. It was one of the most frustrating theatrical experiences I’ve ever had, so much so that I walked out of the film because I realized I was no longer cared about what was happening in the film. Funny thing is that he actually turned up at that very theater I went to that afternoon, I just missed him!

    But I wasn’t the only one that had an issue with that film, and it seems he genuinely took notice of that and fixed it with OPPENHEIMER.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,673
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    All right, I finally saw Oppenheimer and loved it. Had it too built up in my mind, didn't think I'd ever get around to seeing it, let alone enjoying it as much as I did, but nah, it was really fantastic from start to finish. Yes, you can do a three hour, dialogue-heavy film and make it as engrossing as that was. I needed that from Nolan after the fetid dud that was Tenet.

    TENET really brought him down for me in my estimation at the time. Glad he was able to bounce back. Another relief for me was the sound mixing. TENET seemed to be the worst of his sound mixing method where seemingly important information being relayed was muffled by people wearing masks or just being drowned out by music. It was one of the most frustrating theatrical experiences I’ve ever had, so much so that I walked out of the film because I realized I was no longer cared about what was happening in the film. Funny thing is that he actually turned up at that very theater I went to that afternoon, I just missed him!

    But I wasn’t the only one that had an issue with that film, and it seems he genuinely took notice of that and fixed it with OPPENHEIMER.

    Is Nolan maybe getting a little lazy? I've taken issue with elements of his last four films: sound mixing on two of them and the effects of Oppenheimer (I was someone who is bewildered he didn't just buy some 8K stock footage of the real explosions and it took me way way out of the film [which I realize the effects were not the point of this particular film but still, bothered me]). Interstellar I just lost it at the Hathaway love speech. In a funny way.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,215
    There probably wasn’t any stock footage that could match the film quality, especially IMAX. I also think he just liked the challenge filming an explosion with practical effects.
  • edited March 13 Posts: 4,299
    He’s always had those issues with sound mixing. Remember Bane’s original muffled voice in the first TDKR trailer? Interstellar, Dunkirk and Tenet all had these complaints thrown at them too, and all those films had their share of music or background noise that was just a bit too loud to hear dialogue over (which is very distracting, and I even remember wondering whether there was legitimately a sound issue in the theatre when I saw Tenet and Interstellar). He tends to work with different sound teams so it’s a creative choice. I guess it makes sense when you think of the ‘BRRRMS’ from Inception. Like I said, he’s had his share of sloppy filmmaking.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited March 13 Posts: 1,673
    There probably wasn’t any stock footage that could match the film quality, especially IMAX. I also think he just liked the challenge filming an explosion with practical effects.

    There's literally a YouTube channel that regularly uploads upscaled, rescanned high-res clips of real nukes. It's all basically free. He could ask the U.S. government (who maybe wouldn't oblige, but he could ask!).

    And he failed his challenge, then!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited March 13 Posts: 6,379
    007HallY wrote: »
    He’s always had those issues with sound mixing. Remember Bane’s original muffled voice in the first TDKR trailer? Interstellar, Dunkirk and Tenet all had these complaints thrown at them too, and all those films had their share of music or background noise that was just a bit too loud to hear dialogue over (which is very distracting, and I even remember wondering whether there was legitimately a sound issue in the theatre when I saw Tenet and Interstellar). He tends to work with different sound teams so it’s a creative choice. I guess it makes sense when you think of the ‘BRRRMS’ from Inception. Like I said, he’s had his share of sloppy filmmaking.



    It's an artistic choice to muffle the sound. I've never understood why.

    Cinema is not reality. I'd rather hear what Bane or any of the soldiers in Dunkirk were saying.

    In real life there are lawnmowers, planes flying overhead, noisy neighbors, etc. And of course people mumble. The movies don't need to mirror that.

    It gets in the way of his storytelling.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited March 13 Posts: 8,215
    LucknFate wrote: »
    There probably wasn’t any stock footage that could match the film quality, especially IMAX. I also think he just liked the challenge filming an explosion with practical effects.

    There's literally a YouTube channel that regularly uploads upscaled, rescanned high-res clips of real nukes. It's all basically free. He could ask the U.S. government (who maybe wouldn't oblige, but he could ask!).

    And he failed his challenge, then!

    Can you post one of the videos? I see there’s a ton of stuff. Rather gimmicky that they’re throwing in music in some of them. Footage seems too wobbly as well.
  • Posts: 4,299
    echo wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    He’s always had those issues with sound mixing. Remember Bane’s original muffled voice in the first TDKR trailer? Interstellar, Dunkirk and Tenet all had these complaints thrown at them too, and all those films had their share of music or background noise that was just a bit too loud to hear dialogue over (which is very distracting, and I even remember wondering whether there was legitimately a sound issue in the theatre when I saw Tenet and Interstellar). He tends to work with different sound teams so it’s a creative choice. I guess it makes sense when you think of the ‘BRRRMS’ from Inception. Like I said, he’s had his share of sloppy filmmaking.



    It's an artistic choice to muffle the sound. I've never understood why.

    Cinema is not reality. I'd rather hear what Bane or any of the soldiers in Dunkirk were saying.

    In real life there are lawnmowers, planes flying overhead, noisy neighbors, etc. And of course people mumble. The movies don't need to mirror that.

    It gets in the way of his storytelling.

    Yeah, in this case I’d agree. I mean, there are Jean-Luc Goddard films where the sound starts to phase out what people are saying, but those are art house films made to ‘take you out of the story’ regularly. Hell, it’s not an uncommon technique in films to have noise drown out what characters are saying to show another character getting distracted or to evoke a certain mood… but even then, it’s usually not on top of jargon laden expositional dialogue that a viewer would think is important to the story. So I’m not too sure what Nolan was thinking either…

    I mean, it’s not quite like the truck chase in TDK where there are genuinely problems with shot/editing choices, or in TRKR where the fight choreography is filmed in a way that makes it often look like choreography. It’s genuinely bizzare in a purposeful way.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 735
    Often the story isn't the story ... Altman made an art of it, people talking over others, half heard conversations, mumbled speech, ambient noise.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    007HallY wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    He’s always had those issues with sound mixing. Remember Bane’s original muffled voice in the first TDKR trailer? Interstellar, Dunkirk and Tenet all had these complaints thrown at them too, and all those films had their share of music or background noise that was just a bit too loud to hear dialogue over (which is very distracting, and I even remember wondering whether there was legitimately a sound issue in the theatre when I saw Tenet and Interstellar). He tends to work with different sound teams so it’s a creative choice. I guess it makes sense when you think of the ‘BRRRMS’ from Inception. Like I said, he’s had his share of sloppy filmmaking.



    It's an artistic choice to muffle the sound. I've never understood why.

    Cinema is not reality. I'd rather hear what Bane or any of the soldiers in Dunkirk were saying.

    In real life there are lawnmowers, planes flying overhead, noisy neighbors, etc. And of course people mumble. The movies don't need to mirror that.

    It gets in the way of his storytelling.

    Yeah, in this case I’d agree. I mean, there are Jean-Luc Goddard films where the sound starts to phase out what people are saying, but those are art house films made to ‘take you out of the story’ regularly. Hell, it’s not an uncommon technique in films to have noise drown out what characters are saying to show another character getting distracted or to evoke a certain mood… but even then, it’s usually not on top of jargon laden expositional dialogue that a viewer would think is important to the story. So I’m not too sure what Nolan was thinking either…

    I mean, it’s not quite like the truck chase in TDK where there are genuinely problems with shot/editing choices, or in TRKR where the fight choreography is filmed in a way that makes it often look like choreography. It’s genuinely bizzare in a purposeful way.

    I can't remember which one of Nolan's films I revisited about two years ago when it finally stood out to me that he genuinely has editing problems at times and overly-choreographed issues in others. I think it might've been Inception where I noticed it. It's complaints like that that make me worried about him directing Bond.
  • Posts: 4,299
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    He’s always had those issues with sound mixing. Remember Bane’s original muffled voice in the first TDKR trailer? Interstellar, Dunkirk and Tenet all had these complaints thrown at them too, and all those films had their share of music or background noise that was just a bit too loud to hear dialogue over (which is very distracting, and I even remember wondering whether there was legitimately a sound issue in the theatre when I saw Tenet and Interstellar). He tends to work with different sound teams so it’s a creative choice. I guess it makes sense when you think of the ‘BRRRMS’ from Inception. Like I said, he’s had his share of sloppy filmmaking.



    It's an artistic choice to muffle the sound. I've never understood why.

    Cinema is not reality. I'd rather hear what Bane or any of the soldiers in Dunkirk were saying.

    In real life there are lawnmowers, planes flying overhead, noisy neighbors, etc. And of course people mumble. The movies don't need to mirror that.

    It gets in the way of his storytelling.

    Yeah, in this case I’d agree. I mean, there are Jean-Luc Goddard films where the sound starts to phase out what people are saying, but those are art house films made to ‘take you out of the story’ regularly. Hell, it’s not an uncommon technique in films to have noise drown out what characters are saying to show another character getting distracted or to evoke a certain mood… but even then, it’s usually not on top of jargon laden expositional dialogue that a viewer would think is important to the story. So I’m not too sure what Nolan was thinking either…

    I mean, it’s not quite like the truck chase in TDK where there are genuinely problems with shot/editing choices, or in TRKR where the fight choreography is filmed in a way that makes it often look like choreography. It’s genuinely bizzare in a purposeful way.

    I can't remember which one of Nolan's films I revisited about two years ago when it finally stood out to me that he genuinely has editing problems at times and overly-choreographed issues in others. I think it might've been Inception where I noticed it. It's complaints like that that make me worried about him directing Bond.

    Personally, even when I first saw TDK I realised it had problems (I was quite young at the time, but even them I questioned why/how Gordon had faked his own death which made no sense, and got a bit confused and taken out of the film during the truck chase). I do enjoy it a lot though, as I do many of Nolan's other films.

    It's a shame as Nolan proved in his early years that he was a director very adept at working under budget/schedule constraints. You can tell even in Batman Begins there's something very conscious about the filmmaking. The first fight scenes featuring Batman in full costume involves handheld camera, jerky movements, rapid editing etc in order to make Batman come across as almost superhuman, at least in the eyes of these goons. Fast forward to TDKR and we're left with quite wide and static shots during fight scenes which are meant to look 'impressive' but really do show the slowness of the choreography which doesn't seem devised for that set up, and looks unnatural and stiff as a result. It's really not the fault of the choreographers incidentally. How it's shot should always take priority. Don't even get me started on how vivid Gotham looks in that first film (which made use of more CGI from what I can gather) compared to the overuse of on location shooting in the second and third.

    I think (but obviously can't be sure) all of it comes down to the amount of control Nolan had later on, and his own specific way of working when given a larger budget. He doesn't use Second Unit teams, which of course would explain why the set ups and consequently editing choices on the truck chase in TDK don't always feel natural. He seemingly preferred a more 'naturalistic' feel in the Batman sequels, which explains why Gotham looks so boring and less 'film noir' esque than in the first and why we have such dull cinematography during the fight scenes. It's the same for the sound design stuff - he clearly had an intention with it. He's certainly not a bad or inexperienced director (very far from it), and these are all thought out choices, but they're still sloppy often badly done (I mean this to the point where they take me personally and others out of the film). Oppenheimer is an improvement no doubt though.
  • edited March 28 Posts: 2,171
    Christopher Nolan to be knighted, according to Sky News.

    https://news.sky.com/story/christopher-nolan-oppenheimer-director-to-be-knighted-13103467

    He will then truly be… The Dark Knight….
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,693
    Mallory wrote: »
    Christopher Nolan to be knighted, according to Sky News.

    https://news.sky.com/story/christopher-nolan-oppenheimer-director-to-be-knighted-13103467

    He will then truly be… The Dark Knight….

    Lol, I'm happy for him. One thing that I like about Nolan is how humble he is. His ego is subtle, mostly shown only in his movies, for the most part. James Cameron is pure ego.
  • Posts: 580
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    Christopher Nolan to be knighted, according to Sky News.

    https://news.sky.com/story/christopher-nolan-oppenheimer-director-to-be-knighted-13103467

    He will then truly be… The Dark Knight….

    Lol, I'm happy for him. One thing that I like about Nolan is how humble he is. His ego is subtle, mostly shown only in his movies, for the most part. James Cameron is pure ego.

    If there is someone who is justified to have a big ego, it's the great Jim Cameron.
  • edited March 29 Posts: 6,710
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    Christopher Nolan to be knighted, according to Sky News.

    https://news.sky.com/story/christopher-nolan-oppenheimer-director-to-be-knighted-13103467

    He will then truly be… The Dark Knight….

    Lol, I'm happy for him. One thing that I like about Nolan is how humble he is. His ego is subtle, mostly shown only in his movies, for the most part. James Cameron is pure ego.

    If there is someone who is justified to have a big ego, it's the great Jim Cameron.

    I wholeheartedly disagree. Can’t stand the man and his movies. Aliens is garbage next to Ridley Scott’s film; Titanic aged badly; Avatar is pure cgi crap; True Lies works because of its leads; The Abyss is forgettable at best; Terminator is 80s dire pulp;… If they have intruded and oriented popular culture like viruses? Hell yes. So have Coca Cola and Macdonalds. But am I a fan? Are they proper food for cinephile stomachs? No. And most people in the industry don’t like the guy. He is, as many would attest to, obnoxious and egotistical.

    Also, a big ego like that is never justifiable, IMHO.

    Really happy for Sir Christopher Nolan, btw. Well deserved.
  • Posts: 727
    Surprised Cameron hasn’t been knighted. He is eligible as a Canadian right?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,254
    Univex wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    Christopher Nolan to be knighted, according to Sky News.

    https://news.sky.com/story/christopher-nolan-oppenheimer-director-to-be-knighted-13103467

    He will then truly be… The Dark Knight….

    Lol, I'm happy for him. One thing that I like about Nolan is how humble he is. His ego is subtle, mostly shown only in his movies, for the most part. James Cameron is pure ego.

    If there is someone who is justified to have a big ego, it's the great Jim Cameron.

    I wholeheartedly disagree. Can’t stand the man and his movies. Aliens is garbage next to Ridley Scott’s film; Titanic aged badly; Avatar is pure cgi crap; True Lies works because of its leads; The Abyss is forgettable at best; Terminator is 80s dire pulp;… If they have intruded and oriented popular culture like viruses? Hell yes. So have Coca Cola and Macdonalds. But am I a fan? Are they proper food for cinephile stomachs? No. And most people in the industry don’t like the guy. He is, as many would attest to, obnoxious and egotistical.

    Also, a big ego like that is never justifiable, IMHO.

    Really happy for Sir Christopher Nolan, btw. Well deserved.

    I'm sure you'll forgive me for being a huge fan of Aliens, TT and T2, @Univex. I pretty much agree about his other films, but with a soft spot for The Abyss. I have always considered True Lies painfully underwhelming, Titanic hilariously outdated, and Avatar grossly overrated. But I'll always kiss the man's feet for those first three.
  • edited March 29 Posts: 6,710
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    Christopher Nolan to be knighted, according to Sky News.

    https://news.sky.com/story/christopher-nolan-oppenheimer-director-to-be-knighted-13103467

    He will then truly be… The Dark Knight….

    Lol, I'm happy for him. One thing that I like about Nolan is how humble he is. His ego is subtle, mostly shown only in his movies, for the most part. James Cameron is pure ego.

    If there is someone who is justified to have a big ego, it's the great Jim Cameron.

    I wholeheartedly disagree. Can’t stand the man and his movies. Aliens is garbage next to Ridley Scott’s film; Titanic aged badly; Avatar is pure cgi crap; True Lies works because of its leads; The Abyss is forgettable at best; Terminator is 80s dire pulp;… If they have intruded and oriented popular culture like viruses? Hell yes. So have Coca Cola and Macdonalds. But am I a fan? Are they proper food for cinephile stomachs? No. And most people in the industry don’t like the guy. He is, as many would attest to, obnoxious and egotistical.

    Also, a big ego like that is never justifiable, IMHO.

    Really happy for Sir Christopher Nolan, btw. Well deserved.

    I'm sure you'll forgive me for being a huge fan of Aliens, TT and T2, @Univex. I pretty much agree about his other films, but with a soft spot for The Abyss. I have always considered True Lies painfully underwhelming, Titanic hilariously outdated, and Avatar grossly overrated. But I'll always kiss the man's feet for those first three.

    We are usually in agreement, my friend (well, actually, always), and I do agree with that reasoning and choices. I just remeber living through those years when he was so much gold painted by every single person, that I developed some sort of allergic reaction :) And I wouldn’t let you kiss his feet ;)
  • Posts: 7,537
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    Christopher Nolan to be knighted, according to Sky News.

    https://news.sky.com/story/christopher-nolan-oppenheimer-director-to-be-knighted-13103467

    He will then truly be… The Dark Knight….

    Lol, I'm happy for him. One thing that I like about Nolan is how humble he is. His ego is subtle, mostly shown only in his movies, for the most part. James Cameron is pure ego.

    If there is someone who is justified to have a big ego, it's the great Jim Cameron.

    I wholeheartedly disagree. Can’t stand the man and his movies. Aliens is garbage next to Ridley Scott’s film; Titanic aged badly; Avatar is pure cgi crap; True Lies works because of its leads; The Abyss is forgettable at best; Terminator is 80s dire pulp;… If they have intruded and oriented popular culture like viruses? Hell yes. So have Coca Cola and Macdonalds. But am I a fan? Are they proper food for cinephile stomachs? No. And most people in the industry don’t like the guy. He is, as many would attest to, obnoxious and egotistical.

    Also, a big ego like that is never justifiable, IMHO.

    Really happy for Sir Christopher Nolan, btw. Well deserved.

    I'm sure you'll forgive me for being a huge fan of Aliens, TT and T2, @Univex. I pretty much agree about his other films, but with a soft spot for The Abyss. I have always considered True Lies painfully underwhelming, Titanic hilariously outdated, and Avatar grossly overrated. But I'll always kiss the man's feet for those first three.

    I'm the same as you @DarthDimi I love and own T1,T2, and Aliens, and thats it! Titanic was Eastenders on a boat, The Abyss was E.T. goes scuba diving, and True Lies was a True Lie about it being any good! As for Avatar, I saw the first one, and ran from the cinema, I have no intention of wasting any more time on the sequels! Its a pity because those 3 films I like are marvellous entertainment, he just seemed to disappear up his own ego after that!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,254
    @Univex
    Thank you, my friend. Kissing someone's feet is a level of adoration I normally won't stoop to. ;-) (Unless that someone is Kendall Jenner. I have spoken.)

    @Mathis1
    So glad I'm not the only one who's very so-and-so on True Lies. It's been called many things, including "a great Bond film that will never be" and whatnot. I consider it a bloated Bond rip-off with a few laughs on the side.
  • Posts: 580
    Univex wrote: »
    And most people in the industry don’t like the guy.

    It's understandable. They are jealous.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,693
    I'm sorry to get everyone riled up about James Cameron. I'm happy with Nolan getting a knighthood. It's about time!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,215
    AVATAR is probably my least favorite of Cameron’s. But AVATAR: THE WAY OF WATER? Best Cameron movie since T2. That’s what I thinking during the climax in the theater. I couldn’t have been more surprised by how much I got sucked into the movie the way I did. I wasn’t even looking forward to it that much. But AVATAR 3? I’m sold. Ego justified.

    Ridley Scott? Not so much. I think he’s an overrated director riding on the coattails of ALIEN and BLADE RUNNER. He’s never come close since then and I’m done pretending he’s ever been as good after.
  • Posts: 4,299
    Y’know, I’d actually be kinda interested in seeing Daniel Craig in a Nolan film.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,254
    007HallY wrote: »
    Y’know, I’d actually be kinda interested in seeing Daniel Craig in a Nolan film.

    I'm game. Craig is a fine actor and I'm sure Nolan can direct him well.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,252
    Lol, earlier I made a tongue in cheek comment that Nolan's version of "The Prisoner" would meld two franchises and feature Bond as the prisoner; maybe I was close.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,186
    I just realized that Nolan's whispery style of dialogue is now being copied by other filmmakers. Dune Part Two is the latest example.
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