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NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited August 2021 Posts: 8,181
    AgentJamesBond007 wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    On another note, here’s Field Trip from QoS, notice the blatant Another Way to Die quote at 7 seconds in:

    A few scant seconds of nods is not good enough. That's about as substantial as John Barry nodding to LALD with a flute in TMWTGG. It's not the same as weaving the song into the soundtrack as a whole like FRWL or GF. So when fans claim QOS did just the same as those earlier films I call BS.


    And no, AWTD is trash. The worst title song for Bond. It absolutely deserves the derision it gets.

    Let’s be real. The instrumental version of the song is a top tier Bond theme.

    It's forgettable. I rather listen to "Die Another Day" on repeat.

    TripAces wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    Satorious wrote: »
    Better than Newman but "by the numbers" and predictable. I'll reserve judgement until I see the film. Was kinda hoping Zimmer would shake it up a bit - and maybe he will - Braam Braams Daaa...

    Any Barryesque or Arnold sound will be welcomed after the turged Newman piffle. The only great pieces from the Newman era were done by his assistants.

    Newman and his Grammy Award and Oscar nomination for SF thank you for your support.

    Hey, careful, people are touchy about that sorta thing. ;)

    Get ready for the "the awards mean nothing!" mantra. Of course, if David Arnold had gotten the same accolades we'd hear a different tune regarding that.
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,044
    JamesStock wrote: »
    AgentJamesBond007 wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    On another note, here’s Field Trip from QoS, notice the blatant Another Way to Die quote at 7 seconds in:

    A few scant seconds of nods is not good enough. That's about as substantial as John Barry nodding to LALD with a flute in TMWTGG. It's not the same as weaving the song into the soundtrack as a whole like FRWL or GF. So when fans claim QOS did just the same as those earlier films I call BS.


    And no, AWTD is trash. The worst title song for Bond. It absolutely deserves the derision it gets.

    Let’s be real. The instrumental version of the song is a top tier Bond theme.
    Where might one find this instrumental version?
    I think it was on the CD single
  • AgentM72AgentM72
    Posts: 831
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes it was a scant few, no-one said otherwise.

    Unless it's comments like this:
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    Arnold gets nowhere near enough credit for how well, and how frequently, he incorporated AWTD into the score for QOS. And it transitions extremely well. (I think he actually enrichens our views of the song itself, showing us how Bondified it can become in a pure orchestral context).

    Then I'm like...

    Futurama-Fry.jpg

    It's all over that score. "A few scant nods" is hardly accurate. Off the top of my head:
    • Time to Get Out: The high trumpet squeals after the music picks up, mimicking Alicia
    • The Palio: Low brass after Mitchell shoots the bystander, tons of chord reflections
    • Inside Man: It's woven through here, not an obviously direct melodic lift but clearly tons of harmonic and instrumental influence.
    • Pursuit at Port Au Price: Maybe the most direct action/melodic statements, on the heavy guitar and again on the deep brass near the end before the Bond theme really kicks in
    • Field Trip: The low flute countermelody, opposite the Bond theme
    • Target Terminated: Again, melody all throughout the action here: particularly the high brass that compliments the low brass doing the OHMSS-inspired baselines when the action really picks up, mimicking Alicia again
    • Oil Fields: The low brass shot notes that compliment the Bond theme after he steps out of the elevator
    • Perla des las Dunas: Nods throughout
    • The Dead Don't Care About Vengence: Same as Inside Man

    "No Good About Goodbye" is really prominent as well, and arguably the driving melodic references more frequently. But they're both there, and I find it really interesting how he makes both work (+ the Bond theme) without the score ever feeling overburdened.
  • AgentJamesBond007AgentJamesBond007 Vesper’s grave
    Posts: 2,632
    JamesStock wrote: »
    AgentJamesBond007 wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    On another note, here’s Field Trip from QoS, notice the blatant Another Way to Die quote at 7 seconds in:

    A few scant seconds of nods is not good enough. That's about as substantial as John Barry nodding to LALD with a flute in TMWTGG. It's not the same as weaving the song into the soundtrack as a whole like FRWL or GF. So when fans claim QOS did just the same as those earlier films I call BS.


    And no, AWTD is trash. The worst title song for Bond. It absolutely deserves the derision it gets.

    Let’s be real. The instrumental version of the song is a top tier Bond theme.
    Where might one find this instrumental version?

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,169
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The thing that peeves me is seeing fans doubt Newman's sincerity, and often use Arnold's fanboyism against Newman. As if him not being an overt Barry imitator makes him a "lesser" Bond composer, or worse, they try to claim that Newman actually hates Bond music and didn't actually want to score these films. Then there's those who don't even give him a honest chance, because they've built up Arnold as Barry's heir apparent and that anyone else scoring gets scrutinized and should be discarded so Arnold can reclaim his "rightful place".

    For me, Newman brings enough of the Bond flavor while at the same time putting his own style of scoring. That's really all I ever ask of any composer having a stab at Bond. George Martin, Marvin Hamlisch, Bill Conti, and Michael Kamen brought their signature styles which helps give the series variety. They're unique in that they bring something neither Barry or Arnold would have considered. Though the big difference between Newman and those one-off predecessors is that he comes from a more contemporary style of composing where it's less melodic and more rhythmic. That's how you get cues like "Snow Plane". Zimmer is pretty much the same, but since he actually contributed to the title song, we'll probably get a more melodic score.

    Eric Serra is a special case, because he was specifically brought in to re-invent the Bond sound for the 90s, but then EON got cold feet mid-way and wanted to go back to the classic sound and that caused a lot of headaches and bad communication. That's all on EON. They got what they asked of him, and then they didn't want it.

    Don't forget those who won't give the SP score an honest chance because of "brothergate." ;-)
  • AgentM72AgentM72
    Posts: 831
    The real question, to drag us back on topic: is there some Hans Zimmer in the new trailer music, we reckon? ;)
  • UnivexUnivex
    Posts: 6,709
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    The real question, to drag us back on topic: is there some Hans Zimmer in the new trailer music, we reckon? ;)

    Well, some of the music seems to hit the right spots footage wise. And that epic ending is glorious. But...who knows?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,359
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    The real question, to drag us back on topic: is there some Hans Zimmer in the new trailer music, we reckon? ;)

    Doubtful, I would say. Sounds like usual trailer stuff.
  • antovolkantovolk
    Posts: 3,164
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    The real question, to drag us back on topic: is there some Hans Zimmer in the new trailer music, we reckon? ;)

    It isn't Zimmer no.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited August 2021 Posts: 4,247
    My greatest surprise is why Mendes didn't keep Arnold to work with Newman, since Mendes knows Newman isn't an action composer. Because of all Newman's Bond tracks, the romantic/mysterious and atmospheric ones are his best. Old Dog, New Tricks is a great example, which didn't even feature in the film.

    Although, when one listens to a track like Silhouette, it makes one thinks Newman knows and understands the action side of Bond, but chose not to do it often. I really think composers who get action right are very good, because scoring action scenes wrongly can make it begin to sound more noise than music. Honestly, I usually fast-forward Newman's Granborough Road to the end part, where Newman features that nice rendition of the Bond theme, because the rest of that track for me, sounds too noisy to enjoy.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,181
    TripAces wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    Satorious wrote: »
    Better than Newman but "by the numbers" and predictable. I'll reserve judgement until I see the film. Was kinda hoping Zimmer would shake it up a bit - and maybe he will - Braam Braams Daaa...

    Any Barryesque or Arnold sound will be welcomed after the turged Newman piffle. The only great pieces from the Newman era were done by his assistants.

    Newman and his Grammy Award and Oscar nomination for SF thank you for your support.

    Hey, careful, people are touchy about that sorta thing. ;)
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes it was a scant few, no-one said otherwise.

    Unless it's comments like this:
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    Arnold gets nowhere near enough credit for how well, and how frequently, he incorporated AWTD into the score for QOS. And it transitions extremely well. (I think he actually enrichens our views of the song itself, showing us how Bondified it can become in a pure orchestral context).

    Then I'm like...

    Futurama-Fry.jpg

    It's all over that score. "A few scant nods" is hardly accurate. Off the top of my head:
    • Time to Get Out: The high trumpet squeals after the music picks up, mimicking Alicia
    • The Palio: Low brass after Mitchell shoots the bystander, tons of chord reflections
    • Inside Man: It's woven through here, not an obviously direct melodic lift but clearly tons of harmonic and instrumental influence.
    • Pursuit at Port Au Price: Maybe the most direct action/melodic statements, on the heavy guitar and again on the deep brass near the end before the Bond theme really kicks in
    • Field Trip: The low flute countermelody, opposite the Bond theme
    • Target Terminated: Again, melody all throughout the action here: particularly the high brass that compliments the low brass doing the OHMSS-inspired baselines when the action really picks up, mimicking Alicia again
    • Oil Fields: The low brass shot notes that compliment the Bond theme after he steps out of the elevator
    • Perla des las Dunas: Nods throughout
    • The Dead Don't Care About Vengence: Same as Inside Man

    "No Good About Goodbye" is really prominent as well, and arguably the driving melodic references more frequently. But they're both there, and I find it really interesting how he makes both work (+ the Bond theme) without the score ever feeling overburdened.

    Aside from “Field Trip”, I’m not seeing how any of these count. If they were honest attempts by Arnold to put the song into the score then he did a terrible job.
  • antovolkantovolk
    Posts: 3,164
    For those wondering - have seen confirmation that the Bond theme rework in today's new trailers (that was also in the international/Asia/Pacific version of Trailer 2 from last Sept, and the 'Now Your Enemy is My Enemy' spot from 2020 before the first delay) is from the team at Audiomachine. Think this marks the first time in the whole Craig era it's not Jeff Pfeifer
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2021 Posts: 16,359
    For all of you trailer music fans, here's the music from today's trailers with all of that pesky talking surgically removed (sound effects intact though I'm afraid). The US one worked a bit better than the International one.

    NO TIME TO DIE _ Final US Trailer audio - speech removed

    NO TIME TO DIE _ Final International Trailer - speech removed
  • HMBFFHMBFF Lisboa, Portugal
    Posts: 204
    antovolk wrote: »
    For those wondering - have seen confirmation that the Bond theme rework in today's new trailers (that was also in the international/Asia/Pacific version of Trailer 2 from last Sept, and the 'Now Your Enemy is My Enemy' spot from 2020 before the first delay) is from the team at Audiomachine. Think this marks the first time in the whole Craig era it's not Jeff Pfeifer

    Is it available anywhere? I’ve been obsessed with this rework since the ‘Now Your Enemy is My Enemy’ spot.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    antovolk wrote: »
    For those wondering - have seen confirmation that the Bond theme rework in today's new trailers (that was also in the international/Asia/Pacific version of Trailer 2 from last Sept, and the 'Now Your Enemy is My Enemy' spot from 2020 before the first delay) is from the team at Audiomachine. Think this marks the first time in the whole Craig era it's not Jeff Pfeifer

    I didn't realise Pfeifer didn't do the second SPECTRE trailer - the one that reworked OHMSS. I think his music was missed in today's trailers. I'm not quite as enamoured with the music as others are.
  • ContrabandContraband Sweden
    Posts: 3,022
    Little White Lies mag, pdf

    1) Page 48-51 interview with Hans Zimmer (Dune/Bond music talk)
    2) Page 64 with Cary

    https://docdro.id/Q9OI7Oh

  • MalloryMallory
    Posts: 2,160
    Contraband wrote: »
    Little White Lies mag, pdf

    1) Page 48-51 interview with Hans Zimmer (Dune/Bond music talk)
    2) Page 64 with Cary

    https://docdro.id/Q9OI7Oh

    I think I would be turfed out of England instantly if I didnt do Bond justice

    🤣
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    edited September 2021 Posts: 1,030
    Sounds like Hans really leaned into the John Barry.
  • familymottofamilymotto Spain
    Posts: 24
    mtm wrote: »
    For all of you trailer music fans, here's the music from today's trailers with all of that pesky talking surgically removed (sound effects intact though I'm afraid). The US one worked a bit better than the International one.

    NO TIME TO DIE _ Final US Trailer audio - speech removed

    NO TIME TO DIE _ Final International Trailer - speech removed

    Thank you so much for this! Hopefully it will get released properly soon. Best trailer music for Bond since Goldeneye. Chills.

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    familymotto wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    For all of you trailer music fans, here's the music from today's trailers with all of that pesky talking surgically removed (sound effects intact though I'm afraid). The US one worked a bit better than the International one.

    NO TIME TO DIE _ Final US Trailer audio - speech removed

    NO TIME TO DIE _ Final International Trailer - speech removed

    Thank you so much for this! Hopefully it will get released properly soon. Best trailer music for Bond since Goldeneye. Chills.

    Do these trailer songs get released at any point? I remember looking around a lot for the Spectre OHMSS trailer music and having to make due with a digital orchestral cover of it on Spotify.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,359
    familymotto wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    For all of you trailer music fans, here's the music from today's trailers with all of that pesky talking surgically removed (sound effects intact though I'm afraid). The US one worked a bit better than the International one.

    NO TIME TO DIE _ Final US Trailer audio - speech removed

    NO TIME TO DIE _ Final International Trailer - speech removed

    Thank you so much for this! Hopefully it will get released properly soon. Best trailer music for Bond since Goldeneye. Chills.

    Thanks! I thought no one had spotted it :D
    You’re welcome.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    @mtm
    I enjoyed the links, too. This way I could listen to the trailer without being spoilered at all. ;)
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I wonder how much of the Bond theme we'll get throughout the score this time, with it being Daniel's last?
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    I'd be amazed to hear the actual '007' theme and the Bond theme actually IN the movie.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,181
    If a Bond nerd like David Arnold couldn't get the 007 theme back, there's no hope for it ever returning. I think the fact it hasn't been used in over 40 years is partly a conscious decision. Barry was the only one that tried to keep it alive to some extent, and even he dropped it. EON probably thinks the Bond theme is more than enough.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,359
    I just don’t really care for it anyway. It doesn’t really fit the Bond sound he defined shortly after and it’s hard to imagine a sequence in Craig film where he’s being triumphant in a totally unruffled way enough for it to fit.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited September 2021 Posts: 4,247
    I love the 007 theme. I don't expect it to sound exactly like Barry's version. It's definitely going to be modernized, with additional bondian instrumentals if used. So it would definitely work. Every Bond Composer has given the Bond theme a different twist, so the same can be done to the 007 theme.
  • UnivexUnivex
    Posts: 6,709
    I truly love it. Always have. And I've always advocated for its return.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Univex wrote: »
    I truly love it. Always have. And I've always advocated for its return.

    Yeah. Me too. I never understood the criticisms of it. It's a big, beautiful and triumphant piece of music. Though I do see the point that there is a time and a place for it to be used and there hasn't been too many of those in the last couple of eras. We need another "good army versus bad army" sequence to give it a nice big whirl. In that sense, it's as much on the filmmakers as it is the composer. I'd hate for a composer to shoehorn it in where it's not suitable.
  • UnivexUnivex
    edited September 2021 Posts: 6,709
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    I truly love it. Always have. And I've always advocated for its return.

    Yeah. Me too. I never understood the criticisms of it. It's a big, beautiful and triumphant piece of music. Though I do see the point that there is a time and a place for it to be used and there hasn't been too many of those in the last couple of eras. We need another "good army versus bad army" sequence to give it a nice big whirl. In that sense, it's as much on the filmmakers as it is the composer. I'd hate for a composer to shoehorn it in where it's not suitable.

    That being said, I'd rather have a small assault army/team led by Commander Bond to the sound of an Hans Zimmer 007 theme, than a 1+1 buddy movie finale, but I'll reserve my judgement on that ;) for I think the two 00s will have different things to do, although so did Bond and Jinx in DUD :-&
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