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I'm game all right, which is why I wouldn't be opposed to Giaccino doing a Bond score at some point. A little while ago I referred to his Incredibles scores as only two steps away from Bond parody, but at least he has time and again proven to care about melodic richness, from his early video game work to his M:I scores to Star Trek and more. He could do a Bond score IMO, but already there are some here who seem incredibly opposed to that idea...
He wrote some pretty good themes for The Force Awakens, such as Rey's, Kylo's, Finn's, Poe's and March of the Resistance. Unfortunately he hasn't come up with anything particularly memorable for The Last Jedi :|
Personally speaking, when I want something different from future Bond films it has nothing to do with believing that leads to a more successful installment at the box office, but simply that I want something artistically fresh for this long running series. Serra’s GE score IMO enriched the film and gave it a positively distinctive vibe, especially compared to the bland Arnold scores. That Duran Duran song that you seem to dismiss was for me a much needed shot in the arm for Bond songs, coming after a string of ballads trying to chase the success of “Nobody Does it Better”.
Tradition has its merits, but every now and then I admire EON for allowing the filmmakers to do something different in a franchise that is largely formulaic. This goes as far back as Guy Hamilton injecting his own sensibilities that made GF what it is. John Barry experimenting with the moog synthesizer to give us the classic score in OHMSS. Allowing Dalton to bring Fleming’s Bond straight out of the pages instead of continuing the more superheroic interpretation made famous by Connery and Moore. The totally left field casting of Craig when they could have gone with a much safer choice.
But I understand everyone has their preferences, opting for choices right for the franchise rather than what’s right for the individual film. Thankfully EON has shown to be more flexible.
I’m with you 100%. Newman’s music for SF was gorgeous stuff. SP was good, too, but not at the same level.
I think he'd do a fine job. The Incredibles movies being Bond parodies is intentional. Brad Bird originally wanted Barry to score the first film, but he turned it down. Giacchino did everything he could to evoke the big band sensibilities of Barry's 60s efforts. You're absolutely right, Giacchino's scores are immensely rich - thankfully some of his more recent album releases have had a much wetter sound mix compared to his mid to late 00s releases, which sounded quite dry.
I'd be all for him, personally. He showed great franchise respect when he took on Star Wars, so I'm sure the same would apply here.
Anyway, Dan Romer.....
I'm sure he'll do exactly what Fukanaga wants him to do. And if the glimpses of the film so far are any indication, it should please most of us - at least when it comes to some of the basics.
I agree what some are saying even though I'm no real fan of TN's scores in this era, there are some memorable moments definitely, some very inspired ones. I do think wanting any composer to be the next Barry is too much of an ask.
Romer has a lot to prove, this is going to change his career significantly if he pulls it off. I don't think he's just going to deliver what he's done before and I'm sure he'll be researching what has gone before.
It will be interesting to hear what sounds he uses, for instance Jamaica is unlikely to be some stock stereotypical sound associated with that place, I can see Romer delivering something authentic but not cliched.
Barry was the melody king and very few composers have the ability he had, the bar was set very high and George Martin has come the closest.
I think us as fans strive for that again but I'm afraid we are going to come up short. The music has been ripe for being reinvented instead of sounding like a tribute act.
I think we should give Romer a chance and see if he comes up with the goods, I have a feeling this could be the most interesting score we've had in a long time.
Dan it's over to you.
I have complete faith in CJF. This is his film, no doubt about it. And based on what we have seen, he knows exactly what he wants the film to look (and sound) like.
That was actually the point. He rearranged the themes with sneaky variations, which reflects the blurring of the lines in this particular movie. He even quoted Strauss' Elektra in the scene where Luke confronts Kylo Ren.
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/a-field-guide-to-the-musical-leitmotifs-of-star-wars
I hope Dan Romer gives us something as beautiful as that.
I cannot agree with that. Arnold is laying it on too thick in that piece. His attempt at going for Barry 2.0 is especially crippled by his inability to capture the beauty of the scenery. Remember the journey to Piz Gloria? Or Bond lured to the pyramids in MR? Exotic, romantic, balanced. What Arnold did here (and what he more or less recreated for DAD and CR (Jinx comes out of the water, Bond comes out of the water in Nassau, Bond and Jinx make love in Cuba, Bond and Jinx make love amidst diamonds) has a pretentious aura to it, trying to sound "breathtakingly beautiful" while unnecessarily dark and dramatic at the same time. Even Serra knew how to capture "great beauty" better, in my opinion, e.g. when Bond gets lectured by Natalya. I understand what Arnold was going for but I don't think it was the proper path to take for those scenes.
Also, listen carefully. There are always at least one or two instruments "yelling" so much louder than the rest to the point where it becomes annoying or even unpleasant. In the track you posted here, I take issue with those horns. Barry knew how to make his music sound like a whole, whereas Arnold never managed beyond the sum of individual parts, leading, at times, to complete cacophony.
Wasn't the Shanghai section jobbed out to one of Newman's assosiates to score? And yes, it one of my favorite pieces from that score.
But God is that film dull in execution. It really needed a better director and script to come alive.
@DarthDimi I absolutely respect your opinion, but to a lot of us I think this is really subjective stuff.
I've never personally taken a whiff of pretension from Arnold's work, particularly in those tracks you've mentioned. If anything, part of why I loved Arnold's approach was that my ears always perceived him as having checked his ego and assumption at the door—he modernized John Barry's sound, knowingly.
And I think some of what you've cited there is a great example of how perfectly passionate and valid opinions can come down on both sides. I don't have the slightest issue with that track, or a "yelling" horn that's unpleasant—I don't personally feel or hear any difference in orchestral balance between what's happening there and, say "Journey to Piz Gloria". (Agreed, by the way...breathtaking and one of Barry's best tracks ever. Maybe my favourite).
To me, Arnold created epic scores that I can only describe as "full-bodied." He would use the full orchestra a lot, yes. And perhaps in places where John may have simplified or focused on a more unique sound. But Arnold's scores compliment those 90s films, to me, in a perfect way. That Bond demanded that sort of sound. And I can only speak for myself, but as a teenager at the time, they were absolutely a huge factor in why I became a passionate, lifelong fan of 007.
Have to agree, I find these most of these cues to be perfectly judged and not pretentious at all.
I really am struggling with some of the Arnold opinions here. Even Nick Dodd has come under fire recently despite being one of the best conductors around. I'm finding it all quite bizarre.
I completely agree that Arnold's scores complemented the films. When the films went bonkers, so did Arnold's music (see above) and when they matured again, Arnold followed the trend. Lest I be misunderstood, I have never regretted Arnold's involvement with the Bond films. He certainly cared about them as much as any fan would. I merely cannot defend the track singled out a few posts ago as something we really need more of in the next Bond film. That, to me, is a terrible choice. If anything, I would like more QOS, but certainly not more TND, TWINE or DAD for the next Bond score.
Lastly, of course all of this is subjective stuff. When I state my opinion and taste, I do so without any presumptions about their validity. ;-)
+1. Another beautiful track from Arnold. Perfectly captures the beauty of the scene, which is a homage to OHMSS.
From a young age music in film and video games have been something I've cherished for a long time now. It's really opened my mind and shaped my tastes in music. I simply love complex and melodic music. It speaks volumes to me. It was always exciting to hear a bold and exciting movie score. It didn't matter if the movie was good or bad. If the music was fantastic, I'd tune right in. Music is usually the first thing I notice when watching a movie or playing a game.
I'm not one who is enjoying the direction contemporary film music is at at the moment. I find many film soundtracks of the present sounding very similar to one another like they were taken from some royalty free website. It's disappointing to someone like me who very much enjoys film music to hear so many soundtracks today become so generic and forgettable.
I wasn't much of a fan of David Arnold when I was younger. I just followed the majority opinion for the longest time. It wasn't until I started collecting the soundtracks for the Bond films and immersed myself in their great music that I got to listen to them over and over again, absorbing them. People say Arnold overdoes the techno but that's not true at all. In an interview for TND he broke the film's score down into three parts.
The beginning is, Bond is back. It's the classic style John Barry established. The Hamburg sections of the film is a little more techno driven to represent the modern world and Carver's technical prowess. The final half of the film uses Asian style instrumentation. Having listened to the newly released expanded edition of TWINE's score, there is very little techno in it. Die Another Day uses a bit more techno but it's never overbearing. It's just a shame the film versions of some tracks that didn't use the electronic elements weren't released in the expanded DAD soundtrack.
I very much enjoy David Arnold's work. He knows and respects the Bond sound. He updated it the right way for the 90's and 2000's. His music is very much missed.
When Skyfall came around, I didn't know anything of Thomas Newman's work other than Wall-E which was a soundtack I very much enjoyed. It was rather melodic and memorable to my ears. I think his score for Skyfall is fine. It's not great but it just isn't very memorable to me. It was fine for a one off. Then came Spectre. I was willing to give Newman another chance but after hearing how much of the score is just reused from Skyfall I was just so annoyed. Older Bond films reused a track or two in the Connery/Lazenby years but Spectre reuses 80% of Skyfall's soundtrack. As someone who enjoys hearing new music with each new Bond outing, Spectre's score was a big disappointment for sure.
The basic foundation of the Bond sound is, a big band orchestra and brass. That is the basis for the Bond sound. Other one off composers used that foundation and then added a new ingredient to it. George Martin infused a funky 70's groove to it, and it was fantastic. Bill Conti infused 80's disco to the Bond sound resulting in an interesting and enjoyable spin on the Bond sound. Marvin Hamlich infused 70's disco to the Bond sound, though I'm not the biggest fan of his score for TSWLM. Though I do like that he did a new arrangement of Barry's "Stalking" track from FRWL when Bond and Anya are looking for Jaws and The Tanker is a very nice track as well. Michael Kamen was a bit of a proto Arnold. He went for a bigger more intensive sound for his score to LTK and for subtle moments used latin guitars. While Eric Serra was the most radical departure, It still very much has the Bond sound. Especially tracks like The Severnaya suite and That's What Keeps You Alone. Those scores never drone on. There's never a dull moment. There's always some sort of melody or theme.
With Newman it's frustrating. He did a few tracks I enjoy. Los Muertos Vivos Estan being my favorite track by Newman. I wish he used the Bond theme more like this because if he wasn't so against using it he could have been among one of the greats. People saying the Bond theme gets overused in FRWL or TND. I can't agree to that at all. The Bond theme is one of Bond's defining traits. To remove that outright or just slap it in the end credits is just an insult. When I go to see a Bond film, I'd like to hear it used more than just in the end credits. I have over 20 different versions of the James Bond theme and enjoy listening to them one after another. The Bond theme never gets old or loses it's touch. It's just not a Bond movie without it.
I'm just rambling at this point so I'll leave it at that. I'm just someone very passionate about Bond music. Wanting something more memorable and classic, isn't dogma. It's love for something I've been a fan of for just over 20 years now. Peace out.
Not even keen on the Moore - Macnee banter?
=D> =D> =D>
One thing I recently realized is that the SPECTRE score doesn't seem to fit the movie the way Skyfall fits its movie.
Skyfall is a very intimate movie, it delves into Bond's past, M's past, their relationship, their mistakes and secrets haunting them, and it doesn't have many action scenes. The PTS and the Skyfall battle are arguably the only big action pieces in the movie, everything else is very low key. And Newman's score works for that; it's made of moody pieces that accompany the intimate scenes very well.
SPECTRE, on the other hand, is a strange hybrid which tries to be a Craig film and a Moore film at the same time; it's got some big action pieces (the PTS, the underwhelming car chase, the plane chase, the one at Blofeld's lair and the final battle in London) and Newman's score doesn't seem to fit that. The fact that they reused a lot of his music from Skyfall makes this even worse; maybe had Newman been able to write new pieces for SPECTRE his score might have done a more serviceable job, instead Mendes decided to take music which had been written for a very different movie and shoehorned it here.
Skyfall soundtrack is actually pretty good; it's got some good action music (Grand Bazaar, Silhouette Fight, Kill Them First, She's Mine) and very good moody music (The Chimera, Brave New World, Day Wasted, Drive to Skyfall, Tennyson are great and Severine's theme is lovely).
SPECTRE's score, on the other hand, has very few memorable pieces. Los Muertos Vivos Estan is arguably the best piece in the score, and the movie really needed more music like that. The Writing's on the wall instrumental is beautiful, too bad it wasn't even written by Newman as he couldn't bother weaving it into the score, proving he doesn't care about Bond and a 50+ years tradition as much as he cares about getting his paycheck and that's it. The two love themes, Donna Lucia and Madeleine, are also pretty good and then there's the recurring piano theme from Secret Room which is also rather fitting for the movie.
Everything else is rather forgettable or just a Skyfall rehash, unfortunately.
As long as it fits. And even Barry did that. The Romeo and Juliet suite and the theme for Magnficicent Seven in MR, for example. Most Bond movies have music that is from somewhere else, and from even entirely different composers: Here's Vivaldi in SP (from 00:30):
Some really great points here.
My chief problem with SPECTRE (a film I generally love, and I'm even a fan of Newman's work) is that there's some straight-up misalignment in its direction. And this is a great example of how.
Mendes was very consciously trying to make a different kind of Bond film—bigger, brasher, more classic—and yet he tethered key elements of it to his Skyfall approach without similarly maturing them. The music's a great example. SPECTRE demanded, frankly, more of a "David Arnold-style" score I think. Which is why re-using some of those Skyfall pieces sticks out in such a weird way. They don't not work. They just don't work nearly as well as something original, tailored to the film they're in, may have worked.
That, and there's little point shooting those beautiful locations with such a talented cinematographer and then applying a piss-yellow colour grade to it all. ;)
It’s much more common in movies to use source music like those classical pieces. Much less common to just plunder a previous movie for soundtrack ideas.
Romer... no one’s talking about his ‘trademark’ plucky strings used in all his scores. It’s a safe bet we’re getting a plucky string Bond score, with little brass (seriously brass rarely exists in his scores), and then the ambient sounds of little melody. It will be interesting to see if he gets the larger than life quality to Bond, wants to show some or any nods to tradition, or just scores it like he would any of his other works... and I’m sorry I’m not hearing great diverse range the way others are claiming about his scores. But I realize time wise his career has been limited, so it’s a big question mark to find out what his range and what he delivers will be... fingers crossed it’s great... but I’m not going to be surprised either if it ends up being kind of just there with a nice moment or two and then forgettable.
One last thing... people keep defending the ambient style as being appropriate to a director’s vision making it “great.” While it may fit a scene like wallpaper or something unnoticed, it doesn’t actually make it great, it can just be “there.” Conversely, there are scores like John William’s and John Barry’s who elevate the material as is the case with Star Wars and Bond. That’s a rare thing and obviously becomes beloved by fans and it’s not nostalgia, it’s just love of great work.