NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • Posts: 3,327
    darrenr wrote: »
    Deeply disappointed on this, it has dulled my enthusiasm for the new movie quite a bit. Yes i was very much hoping for the producers to say its their guy i.e. Arnold back on scoring duties. Why? Because when i speak to the most important people about the last two movies, those that aren't passionate Bond fans but make up the majority of the box office take who go to see it, many have said how the music just hasn't been what they expect to hear. "where is the Bond theme? Why odd synth tracks not full trumpets" etc.

    David Arnold is absolutely passionate of and committed to the entire Bond genre and has a deep knowledge on all aspects of the movies and books; I've had the pleasure of hearing him in person at concerts and talks discussing these things; it is nothing short of a tragedy that such knowledge and passion will be wasted.

    really disappointed. I hope this guy does take this as an opportunity to take whatever skills he has up to a true fully orchestral composition level. Please for gods sake, make a Bond movie just damn well sound like one.

    In a perverse way I hope the score is an absolute travesty, and Bond 25 is one mess of a film, because this may be the only way we get the right changes made at EON. Babs isn't fit to run the franchise anymore, and the only way we'll get these changes made is by an absolute disaster of a film, so she is forced to sell up to someone who understands Bond - including getting the right sound of the film, and going back to the Fleming novels.

    The fact that she has chosen to ignore the previously unused material and gone with the `Fleming re-imagined' family angst crap in SF and SP shows she isn't up to the task anymore.
  • Posts: 3,327
    M_Balje wrote: »
    Also from Dan Romer and help from another composer




    More shocking bad examples. Meandering, plodding, atmospheric, ambient crap.

    Again, shows this guy is not the man for the job.
  • Posts: 3,327
    Sigh. I miss this.



    I hope Dan Romer gives us something as beautiful as that.

    I doubt Romer will get anywhere near anything as great as this. It just makes you want to weep when you hear these tracks again, knowing that Arnold hasn't been asked back, in favour of some indie rookie who specialises in ambient background noise. nothing more.
  • Posts: 3,327
    I think that would be unfair to write him off before he even delivered his score, as it was unfair of those who wrote off Craig before even seeing his first performance as Bond.

    Fair enough. I shouldn't really write the guy off until hearing his score. I'm making a judgement on his previous work. If I heard glimpses even, of something remotely sounding like a strong melody, I may be a bit more optimistic.

    Unfortunately everything I have heard so far (and I've heard quite a bit now from examples posted on here) leaves me with the dreaded feeling that we are in for another Newman type score - ambient, generic, atmospheric crap, that sounds like a million other Netflix dramas.

    The Bond sound is unique to its franchise. Other films occasionally try to even mimic it. And yet here we are, with another composer brought in because of the director. Mendes cocked up both SP and SF with his own vision of what a Bond film should be, and here we are, third time lucky, going through the motions again.

    And the one person who truly can do a Bond score is sidelined once again.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,180
    Personally I prefer when the non-Barry composers put their own spin on the Bond sound rather than mimic Barry like Arnold did. So Newman pretty much did Bond in his own style, much like Michael Kamen or Bill Conti did. IMO it gives the films more diversity. I don’t think Bond should have had a regular composer again after Barry.
  • Posts: 3,274
    IMO it gives the films more diversity. I don’t think Bond should have had a regular composer again after Barry.
    I'm happy that they stuck to Barry, Ken Adam etc as long as they could.

    I am not sure I like the diversity of the Craig Bond movies. They are all very different from each other. The style, editing, music etc. It feels like there's a whole new team brought on board every time.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,207
    I'd be fine with each era having a different composer from here on out. But I don't want every film to be different, musically. I like consistency.
  • Posts: 4,044
    I'd be fine with each era having a different composer from here on out. But I don't want every film to be different, musically. I like consistency.

    That’s probably the best route, as it gives identity to each era. But they are letting the director decide so that’s scuppered that.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,161
    Sigh. I miss this.



    I hope Dan Romer gives us something as beautiful as that.

    I doubt Romer will get anywhere near anything as great as this.

    I hope we'll never have to hear something so generic in a Bond film ever again. My favourite Arnold score is QOS, partly because it has nothing like this in it, for a change. CR has moments like this in Venice and on the Nassau beaches, DAD has it in the very last scene and TND brought a similar sound to Paris and Bond. Do you know what I thought when I first heard "Paris and Bond" in '97? "My god, David, you had to bring stuff from ID4, didn't you? In an otherwise very inventive score, THIS is what you throw in?" And he would do it again and again and once more. But not in QOS, and I loved him for that. :)

    I too think it's insane to write off Romer before we have heard even a single note of his score.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited July 2019 Posts: 8,207
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Sigh. I miss this.



    I hope Dan Romer gives us something as beautiful as that.

    I doubt Romer will get anywhere near anything as great as this.

    I hope we'll never have to hear something so generic in a Bond film ever again. My favourite Arnold score is QOS, partly because it has nothing like this in it, for a change. CR has moments like this in Venice and on the Nassau beaches, DAD has it in the very last scene and TND brought a similar sound to Paris and Bond. Do you know what I thought when I first heard "Paris and Bond" in '97? "My god, David, you had to bring stuff from ID4, didn't you? In an otherwise very inventive score, THIS is what you throw in?" And he would do it again and again and once more. But not in QOS, and I loved him for that. :)

    I too think it's insane to write off Romer before we have heard even a single note of his score.

    I think we have different different ideas of what generic film scoring is, @DarthDimi ;)

    But I agree with your last part, I think it's only fair to let Romer do what he has been hired to do without damning him to hell before he gets to do it, regardless of your opinion of his previous work.
    vzok wrote: »
    I'd be fine with each era having a different composer from here on out. But I don't want every film to be different, musically. I like consistency.

    That’s probably the best route, as it gives identity to each era. But they are letting the director decide so that’s scuppered that.

    I agree, I think it's best too. Maybe it might be something they will consider in future, if they plan the eras in broader strokes.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Im just grateful its not bloody Newman again.
    Anything should be an improvement over SF & SP score.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,161
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Im just grateful its not bloody Newman again.
    Anything should be an improvement over SF & SP score.

    Thinking about it, it's actually funny that SF was nominated for best score.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    I'd be fine with each era having a different composer from here on out. But I don't want every film to be different, musically. I like consistency.

    +1
  • Posts: 19,339
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Im just grateful its not bloody Newman again.
    Anything should be an improvement over SF & SP score.

    Thinking about it, it's actually funny that SF was nominated for best score.

    I've wondered that for years,DD !!
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited July 2019 Posts: 10,591
    SF's score is excellent IMO, but SP's really lacked aside from a handful of tracks.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    SP soundtrack worked quite good in the movie IMO.

    I'd choose SP over SF score, simply because sounds like an overall improvement of everything good there was in SF.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    matt_u wrote: »
    SP soundtrack worked quite good in the movie IMO.

    I'd choose SP over SF score, simply because sounds like an overall improvement of everything good there was in SF.

    Exactly how I feel. It s a wonderful score.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,161
    barryt007 wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Im just grateful its not bloody Newman again.
    Anything should be an improvement over SF & SP score.

    Thinking about it, it's actually funny that SF was nominated for best score.

    I've wondered that for years,DD !!

    So have I, @barryt007. I mean, I don't hate the SF score but if this thing got nominated, how come Barry, Goldsmith, ... didn't get nominated for many more Oscars? In fact, how come Barry never got the Oscar for the YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, MR, FRWL, GF, ... scores? Those were absolute diamonds! The fact that SF got nominated at all is an insult to Barry's legacy.

    Even more insulting, however, is TWOTW winning the Oscar--I still have trouble believing that--while theme songs like YOLT, WHATTITW, DAF, ... didn't.

    Either the Academy dismissed the Bonds back in the day as unworthy, convinced their faeces don't stink; or such low quality was produced in recent years that the options proved too few; or both. Whatever the case, Sam Smith winning the Oscar for his theme song to SP isn't a "gift" in my opinion to us, Bond fans; rather, it's like dancing on Barry's grave.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Im just grateful its not bloody Newman again.
    Anything should be an improvement over SF & SP score.

    Thinking about it, it's actually funny that SF was nominated for best score.

    I've wondered that for years,DD !!

    So have I, @barryt007. I mean, I don't hate the SF score but if this thing got nominated, how come Barry, Goldsmith, ... didn't get nominated for many more Oscars? In fact, how come Barry never got the Oscar for the YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, MR, FRWL, GF, ... scores? Those were absolute diamonds! The fact that SF got nominated at all is an insult to Barry's legacy.

    Even more insulting, however, is TWOTW winning the Oscar--I still have trouble believing that--while theme songs like YOLT, WHATTITW, DAF, ... didn't.

    Either the Academy dismissed the Bonds back in the day as unworthy, convinced their faeces don't stink; or such low quality was produced in recent years that the options proved too few; or both. Whatever the case, Sam Smith winning the Oscar for his theme song to SP isn't a "gift" in my opinion to us, Bond fans; rather, it's like dancing on Barry's grave.

    I don't take the Oscars seriously and havent for a long time.

    They're laughable if anything.

    I think James Bond films have always been pretty low on their totem pole.

    Vangelis's incredible ground breaking score from Blade Runner wasn't even nominated!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,161
    Vangelis's incredible ground breaking score from Blade Runner wasn't even nominated!

    But SkyFall was. How does one explain such a thing?
  • Posts: 3,274
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Vangelis's incredible ground breaking score from Blade Runner wasn't even nominated!

    But SkyFall was. How does one explain such a thing?

    Lobbying.
  • DrClatterhandDrClatterhand United Kingdom
    Posts: 349
    These threads become insanely obsessed with the minutiae of every single facet of the end product. Casual Bond fans don't give two hoots about such things. EoN aren't catering solely for you. I think they're doing just fine. They slipped with SPECTRE, but are going to knock it out of the park with Bond 25. David Arnold A.K.A. Poundshop John Barry isn't scoring and I'm fine with that. I have a very good feeling about Dan Romer. I think he'll offer something progressive that still nods to the past.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,180
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Im just grateful its not bloody Newman again.
    Anything should be an improvement over SF & SP score.

    Thinking about it, it's actually funny that SF was nominated for best score.

    I've wondered that for years,DD !!

    So have I, @barryt007. I mean, I don't hate the SF score but if this thing got nominated, how come Barry, Goldsmith, ... didn't get nominated for many more Oscars? In fact, how come Barry never got the Oscar for the YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, MR, FRWL, GF, ... scores? Those were absolute diamonds! The fact that SF got nominated at all is an insult to Barry's legacy.

    Even more insulting, however, is TWOTW winning the Oscar--I still have trouble believing that--while theme songs like YOLT, WHATTITW, DAF, ... didn't.

    Either the Academy dismissed the Bonds back in the day as unworthy, convinced their faeces don't stink; or such low quality was produced in recent years that the options proved too few; or both. Whatever the case, Sam Smith winning the Oscar for his theme song to SP isn't a "gift" in my opinion to us, Bond fans; rather, it's like dancing on Barry's grave.

    The Academy has nominated and awarded Bond films as far back as GF, so I don’t think it’s necessarily them dismissing Bond. For whatever reason, Barry and the songs he produced got overlooked, but other composers and songs got nominated before Thomas Newman and Adele won their awards.

    For the music categories “Live and Let Die”, “Nobody Does it Better”, and “For Your Eyes Only” were nominated for best song, and Marvin Hamlisch’s score was nominated for best score. All suspiciously without Barry.

    At the same time, Barry’s non-Bond scores and songs got nominated numerous times throughout the years. So, what’s the deal? I suspect that Barry didn’t want his Bond work to be submitted for nominations, preferring that his non-Bond work be recognized instead. It’s no secret that by a certain point John Barry thought he was too good for Bond but kept taking the gig because it was good money. Part of the reason he didn’t come back for LALD was actually because he thought another non-Connery picture would not be a big hit, so why bother making a score for that? Oh, it’s actually a big hit, guess he’s okay with scoring Bond again. That’s just my hypothesis because of an interview he gave where he in retrospect dismissed the post-60s Bond films.

    He was a snobby fella, but also a genius composer.
  • Posts: 4,044
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Vangelis's incredible ground breaking score from Blade Runner wasn't even nominated!

    But SkyFall was. How does one explain such a thing?

    Lack of music knowledge. Lack of taste. Lack of brain cells.
  • Posts: 3,274
    It’s no secret that by a certain point John Barry thought he was too good for Bond but kept taking the gig because it was good money. Part of the reason he didn’t come back for LALD was actually because he thought another non-Connery picture would not be a big hit, so why bother making a score for that? Oh, it’s actually a big hit, guess he’s okay with scoring Bond again. That’s just my hypothesis because of an interview he gave where he in retrospect dismissed the post-60s Bond films.
    Officially it was tax reasons that prevented Barry to work in the U.K. for a while. When the production base moved from U.K. to France for MR, he could be brought in again.

    You are miscrediting John Barry by using loose assumptions.
  • Posts: 4,044
    Zekidk wrote: »
    It’s no secret that by a certain point John Barry thought he was too good for Bond but kept taking the gig because it was good money. Part of the reason he didn’t come back for LALD was actually because he thought another non-Connery picture would not be a big hit, so why bother making a score for that? Oh, it’s actually a big hit, guess he’s okay with scoring Bond again. That’s just my hypothesis because of an interview he gave where he in retrospect dismissed the post-60s Bond films.
    Officially it was tax reasons that prevented Barry to work in the U.K. for a while. When the production base moved from U.K. to France for MR, he could be brought in again.

    You are miscrediting John Barry by using loose assumptions.

    And he reached no agreement with the taxman until the 80s.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited July 2019 Posts: 12,480
    darrenr wrote: »
    Deeply disappointed on this, it has dulled my enthusiasm for the new movie quite a bit. Yes i was very much hoping for the producers to say its their guy i.e. Arnold back on scoring duties. Why? Because when i speak to the most important people about the last two movies, those that aren't passionate Bond fans but make up the majority of the box office take who go to see it, many have said how the music just hasn't been what they expect to hear. "where is the Bond theme? Why odd synth tracks not full trumpets" etc.

    David Arnold is absolutely passionate of and committed to the entire Bond genre and has a deep knowledge on all aspects of the movies and books; I've had the pleasure of hearing him in person at concerts and talks discussing these things; it is nothing short of a tragedy that such knowledge and passion will be wasted.

    really disappointed. I hope this guy does take this as an opportunity to take whatever skills he has up to a true fully orchestral composition level. Please for gods sake, make a Bond movie just damn well sound like one.

    In a perverse way I hope the score is an absolute travesty, and Bond 25 is one mess of a film, because this may be the only way we get the right changes made at EON. Babs isn't fit to run the franchise anymore, and the only way we'll get these changes made is by an absolute disaster of a film, so she is forced to sell up to someone who understands Bond - including getting the right sound of the film, and going back to the Fleming novels.

    The fact that she has chosen to ignore the previously unused material and gone with the `Fleming re-imagined' family angst crap in SF and SP shows she isn't up to the task anymore.

    I was laughing out loud at this. Then I thought maybe you are not taking the piss and mean it. Do you really mean this? It's so OTT about Barbara.

    Romer is versatile and I'm not at all concerned. I like David Arnold a lot, but I'm open to a new composer. Cary has enjoyed working with him, and he's not a "one tone only" composer.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,180
    Barbara made mistakes. So did Wilson. So did Cubby. So did Saltzman. So will the next producers. That’s show business.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Well, I finally listened to some of Romer's work. Can't say I'm too impressed. My expectations for B25's score are very low. Lol not trying to sound negative. I've been surprised before.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    I'm a lifelong fan. I love Barry. I don't want us stuck in the past, is all. I think that's not healthy. I welcome everything about Bond 25 so far. If the music sucks, I will be surprised - but I'm not bashing the new composer at this point. Cary chose him, and I respect that.

    I do know that some folks like Newman's work a good deal. I found it just middle of the road, and lacking at times. But I don't hate it.

    Cary is building well in Bond 25. Who was retained from Boyle's brief time? The costume designer, yes - and she seems to be doing a great job. But I don't remember who else ...

    Production Designer Mark Tildesley?
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