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Admittedly, the only DAD album I've listened to was an unofficial complete album I acquired online like a decade ago, and it sounds a lot like what I've heard on film. Can't comment on the official album that didn't even have all of the score.
Well I admitted it was mean, but Newman will go down as one of the more important and, well, best composers of the last 50 years and Arnold won't. I don't find that unrelated to music quality at all: it's entirely concerning music quality. There's no need to be oversensitive about it: no-one's telling you you're wrong for enjoying it. I've happily listened to the Arnold soundtracks for years.
The Vic Flick guitar is present in film and on album. The techno isn't. So the comparison doesn't hold up.
The bootleg of DAD doesn't have the film mixes of some of the cues. We'd need the recording sessions for that.
That is what I'm talking about.
Irony.
Sam Mendes!
That's pretty lame if none of the albums have the film versions with the electronics.
It’s pertinent in that they’re responsible for the last 20 years of Bond scores and both had a different approach.
Whether one thinks Arnold or Newman is ‘better’ is of course down to personal taste, for me it’s more about the framework of the score and I feel like Arnold understood the ‘format’, for want of a better word, forged by Barry (and carried through by others over the years) better than Newman.
My point on a previous page is that I hope Romer does the same. He doesn’t need to ‘sound’ like Barry, but it would be great, from my point of view, if he structured his score in a similar manner, with strong recurring theme/s and action cues that are weaved throughout the film.
For the record I actually like a lot of Newman’s Bond work, but individually rather than as a complimentary whole - which is where Barry excelled.
....which stems back to my issue with the score overall.
Buy anyway, major tangent here.
This is about as succinct as it gets, @RC7!
That's just one way of doing a score though. Barry was undeniably the master at what he did, but why do you have to follow that structure to do a Bond film? There's a certain sound and full, epic brassiness you always want as part of the Bond aesthetic of course, but I don't see why you need a particular theme here or a love theme there in order for it to be Bond.
See I wouldn’t even go as far as saying it needs ‘epic brassiness’, I’m all for playing with the sound, but a strong musical motif is something I look for in a Bond score. Something that pulls it all together. To me it’s part of the DNA.
In all fairness it’s been harder recently as the idea of the composer working with the artist to create the title track has been shot to sh*t. Personally I think it should be a prerequisite when they sign up. I would be over the moon if Romer was allowed/keen to follow this path and subsequently weave the melody/riff of the title track through the score.
It was not mean, it was totally pointless. Who cares about awards and such*, we are talking about quality and personal tastes. I couldn't care less if God Almighty came on Earth and said that Newman or Arnold is the best composer who ever lived, what I care is discussing their works as a fan.
*especially if it's the Oscar, which are not given for one's merits but for other reasons such as family name, money, and such.
Yeah maybe not brassiness, but I think you want to evoke Bond's luxurious world in some way. It needs to be classy and rich, with deep quality: that's where Newman got it right for me. Plus you want some menace and danger of course.
In terms of a strong musical motif.. I dunno. I'm not sure that's as important as the feeling that the music can evoke. I like to have one of course, but I don't think it's essential.
Which is why George Martin's score is so good. He does all the things you mention there, and does it without going anywhere near Barry's style. It's unmistakably Bond because of its structure.
Arnold and Martin, for me, had it nailed down. The others all had their moments, but like you said, they're individual moments rather than a cohesive whole.
I hope Romer does indeed take note of the importance of it, and looks to older scores for inspiration and then merges that with his own ideas. That's the sweet spot for a potential new score.
Action music is not especially memorable, no matter who the composer is. It's not the stuff I want on my speakers while I'm sipping a martini. So I usually "drop" those tracks from my Bond playlists.
Now, there's a red hot take! ;)
I agree that technically Arnold will probably never be as capable as Newman, but to call Newman´s SF score a breath of fresh air is quite a stretch. There were a few more elaborate harmonies, I´ll give him that. But basically, whatever Arnold lacked, Newman did much worse. The only thing he may have done right was that his music fits to the drab colours and lighting of the film. I for my part can live better without those.
Not necessarily Bond. Although I think the producers together with the editor decide a lot. E.G. the JB theme in SF, or the music for the tank chase scene in GE, or the JB theme in DN (amusing to read how Barry recalls seeing the film for the first time and noticing that the theme he thought would feature in one or two scenes of the film appeared every few minutes). Arnold said that his tracks for QoS were placed differently in the film than he originally intended, but that he liked the result.
But as far as directors go, I read that Michael Mann altered scores which were crafted by composers. Not the pop music tracks which are heavily featured in many of his films. I believe there´s a special guy for those. But Mann allegedly changed or had someone else change the scores of Last of the Mohicans, and Blackhat. The credited composer of the latter said that what you hear in the film has not much to do with what he composed and recorded.
Many composers have refused to work with Mann again because of the way he approaches the music in his films. I think it was Harry Gregson-Williams on Blackhat duty.
Same here. Even his lesser films always have very interesting soundtracks.
And the soundtrack for HEAT is sublime.
Ok, both are equally good.
Touché. And we haven't even mentioned the soundtrack for THIEF, by Tangerine Dream! ;)
Great film music takes you back to a scene or a moment, so effectively, that you can see it all over again in your mind. "Night at the Opera" does that. But I found Newman's work did it for me more than Arnold's. "The Chimera," for instance: damn, I am ON THAT BOAT every time I hear it. "Brave New World": I am over Shanghai.
One of the problems with Arnold's music, and it is not his fault, is that his better tracks are really, really short. For instance, the transition music "Bond in Haiti" in QoS is excellent. But it's only 35 seconds long. :-(
Fair comments for sure. I feel the same about Newman's transition pieces for the most part, which I think he actually did a much better job of in SP. I love "Crows Klinik", for example, and it's also quite short.
It inspires the same thing, mentally - an instant visual reminder of a plane soaring through snow-capped mountains.
I’d rather have a strong score that deviates heavily from the formula than a mediocre “Bondian” score. The series is evolving and the music needs to evolve with it.
The ideal score strikes a balance of both of these things, imo. You can follow the structure of a Bond score and experiment with and add unique touches to it, the same way a director can with the film. It shouldn't be one or the other.
This is why I think Romer will be fine. CJF felt comfortable with him as the composer, and that's good enough for me.