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NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • AKillToAViewAKillToAView
    edited December 2019 Posts: 440
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »


    If this is indeed true, then it's a bit disappointing. I don't think ambition for the 25th (or 27th if you prefer) instalment in a nearly 6-decade old movie franchise should be rejected offhand.

    I think Zimmer/RCP can turn out good work, but most of the time, it's a music production factory and it often sounds like it. I don't even dislike Zimmer/Balfe/Wallfisch's work on their own, but when they do something for the RCP, 9/10 it sounds like every other action RCP score.

    Romer wasn't even nearly close to being top of my list for most wanted composers on this, but at least he was something different.

    I know people have their criticisms of Newman and Arnold, but they at least always tried to add something new to their music and make it stand out from other action films.

    This just feels like the Bond films chasing a currently popular trend, rather than setting it or just doing its own thing.



  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    I'd like to hear Romer's "out there" music. I had faith in him. The worst thing it could be is generic.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    So they tried someone new, which is good, but it was really at CF’s behest which means the choice was by director not by producers actively trying to find a new composer who would be good for Bond...

    And now that it didn’t work, I’m surprised it’s not Arnold. Which is a little concerning because at this stage, whoever they decide on, that will be the score whether they end up really liking it or not. Which wouldn’t surprise then if it was Zimmer, because with a big bought name they can say, ‘look we have the great Hans Zimmer,’ again regardless if they really like it or not.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,523
    Bottom line, my guess (assuming this is true) is that it just wasn’t Bondian enough. Different can be good, but not too much. I suspect the same case with Boyle’s idea/script.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    edited December 2019 Posts: 3,327
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Did Romer score the NTTD trailer?

    It's extremely unlikely. Most likely Jeff/Rob Pfeifer.
    mtm wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    When Zimmer composed The Lone Ranger we heard Ennio morricone's style & Gioachino Rossini's William Tell's Overture from the Old lone ranger TV series in it. Now, if He composes Bond we can at least expect him to follow Barry's style....even if Zimmer maintains his own style. coz as we heard from Blade Runner 2049, he still retained Vangelis' style.

    I don't think we're going to be getting anything close to Barry's style here. Even less so than we have been in the last decade.

    The William Tell Overture in THE LONE RANGER was actually implemented by Geoff Zanelli and most of BR2049 (aside from a select few cues, such as MESA) were composed by Wallfisch, including TEARS IN RAIN if I remember correctly.

    Granted, Zimmer oversaw a lot of it (even though he was on tour), but there's no guarantee that he would do anything differently for Bond. We do of course hold Bond on a pedestal here, naturally, but Zimmer is a rock star and as I said previously, he's as much a producer now as he is a composer, and a lot of the composing he is interested in revolves around pushing sound design techniques that wouldn't be suitable for Bond at all.

    However, if it is Balfe, I would at least be confident that he would do what he did with FALLOUT and use the Bond theme as a foundation from which to twist that very identifiable RCP sound around.

    But no, John Barry this certainly will not be. Unless you just count a statement of the Bond theme as "John Barry's style".

    The Bond theme will be in the new score no matter what, but I don’t want John Barry’s style. It was his style: we had it and it was obviously amassing, but he’s dead and I don’t want someone trying to ape him. Zimmer is one of the greats alongside Barry: he shouldn’t have to try and copy someone else. Obviously it’s got to sit in Bond’s world and be a part of it, but in the same way Daniel Craig isn’t impersonating Connery, a new composer shouldn’t impersonate Barry.

    I wouldn't want anyone directly copying Barry either. Thankfully nobody really has.

    I was just explaining why you definitely shouldn't expect it from Zimmer, and I say that as a fan of his.

    I think maybe George Martin got as close as we’ve seen to trying to do a Barry score. He did a good job of it and added his own feel, but that’ll probably do for me. Arnold’s most consciously Barry pastiche track was probably City of Lovers from Casino Royale. Again, a good track, but I don’t want to to be thinking ‘oh this sounds like someone trying to be Barry’.

    See, I just don't subscribe to this way of thinking at all. Is everyone who attempts to do lush, sweeping, romantic film scoring trying to be John Barry then despite the fact that they're just doing what the scene calls for? The notion of that is ironically incredibly limiting, I feel. It pigeon holes so many great cues. And that's not just in relation to Arnold, but all the other composers as well who have all had that lush romance present in their scores. Newman's Komodo Dragon arguably veers into "pastiche" (an awful word) territory too, but it's still a good piece of music that fits the scene like a glove and I find it hard to imagine it without it.

    You're right about Martin. But I don't think he took anything from Barry other than structure of the Bond score. His style wasn't the same as Barry's and it's why LALD is one of the most unique films in the series from a musical standpoint, despite being undeniably Bondian at the same time. In fact, I would say that LALD is exactly the example that composers should be looking to if you wanted to create a Bond score without "aping" John Barry.

    Not that it matters, considering I don't think that's what we're going to be getting with NTTD anyway, whether it be from Romer or one of the RCP guys. I fully expect the next film to have an incredibly divisive score. It's going to be extremely interesting.


    Great news. Romer obviously didn't respect the Bond sound and tried to continue down his own indie path of crappy atmos garbage - as I predicted!

    Thankfully EON have had common sense and realised this won't do, and rightly booted him out. I am so pleased. It would be even sweeter if they didn't pay Romer either for his discarded efforts.

    Now EON, do the right thing and pick up the phone. You know the name, you know the number.... ;)
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Bottom line, my guess (assuming this is true) is that it just wasn’t Bondian enough. Different can be good, but not too much. I suspect the same case with Boyle’s idea/script.

    Spot on.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    Also, I know people here are now going to bag on the idea of getting rid of Romer because it’ was deemed “out there.” Just because something’s different doesn’t mean it’s good, it can also mean it sucks. I’m ok with them listening to it and saying, “yeah, thank you, no.”
  • AKillToAViewAKillToAView
    edited December 2019 Posts: 440
    I have a feeling all the people on here who hated Romer because his work didn't sound enough like Barry and was too "ambient/techno" that are now happy RCP is in charge are in for a bit of a nasty surprise.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2019 Posts: 16,606
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I always thought of Giacchino as the American David Arnold, only more prolific. No thanks.

    Yeah I can see that. There’s a similar kind of lack of depth. He’s very slick though. I don’t hate him but his stuff doesn’t really stir any sort of great feelings in me either way.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    AKillToAView wrote: »
    I have a feeling all the people on here who hated Romer because his work didn't sound enough like Barry and was too "ambient/techno" that are now happy RCP is in charge are in for a bit of a nasty surprise.

    Very likely.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2019 Posts: 16,606
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Nah I think it very much does ape Barry: it’s almost hard to tell it’s not him if you’re not really paying attention. I wouldn’t want a composer to stick so close: I’d much rather something new and fresh. I want a composer to look at Bond and decide for themselves how that would be represented musically. Much like Newman did, I think they’re likely to decide on something not a million miles away from what we’ve had before (I think it’s hard to lose the brass and big epic, full sound) but I don’t want the same old.

    Anything could sound like anything if you're not paying attention, so I think you're completely wrong here. There's certainly brass and the usual featured instruments in there, but it very much has more of a feverish, percussive soul element to the instrumentation that makes it undoubtedly not John Barry, even to a casual ear. The theme song helps a great deal, and further solidifies how important it is that the composer be granted a chance to work with the songwriter regardless of their stylistic approaches. LALD is a fine example of that, managing to not ape what came before but still be unmistakably Bond.

    That's what the aim should always be.

    Nah, it’s a very similar score type of score to the films surrounding it, albeit with a funk, Taking of Pelham-style element added which is there to suit the film (and is rather obviously not Martin’s usual thing!) so is conceivably a flavour Barry might have even gone with it had he done it (and he himself did flirt with that 70s sound in a few of his scores - Game of Death for example). It’s very Barryish, more so than something like the TSWLM score soon after.
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    I'd like to hear Romer's "out there" music. I had faith in him. The worst thing it could be is generic.

    Indeed: I was yet to hear anything by him that didn’t sound generic though. Doesn’t mean he can’t do it of course.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,220
    AKillToAView wrote: »
    I have a feeling all the people on here who hated Romer because his work didn't sound enough like Barry and was too "ambient/techno" that are now happy RCP is in charge are in for a bit of a nasty surprise.

    Indeed.
  • UnivexUnivex
    edited December 2019 Posts: 6,710
    matt_u wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Bottom line, my guess (assuming this is true) is that it just wasn’t Bondian enough. Different can be good, but not too much. I suspect the same case with Boyle’s idea/script.
    Spot on.
    Yep. I've said this over and over again, I appreciate originality within the formula, but wanting to deconstruct the formula to a point of it not being recognisable is as dumb as you can get. Want a different kind of movie? Go watch a different kind of movie. I, as many, want a Bond film.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,606
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.

    I would advise folks not to engage with the sort of baiting this poster is displaying: it’s really not worth it.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,523
    mtm wrote: »
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.

    I would advise folks not to engage with the sort of baiting this poster is displaying: it’s really not worth it.

    Agreed. And I’m a huge Arnold fan and want him back the most. We have had good scores outside Barry and Arnold.
  • xolanixolani
    Posts: 130
    I, for one, am quite disappointed. As the guy on my profile pic has proven, getting a big-name composer can be quite risky, if they aren't motivated enough (Spectre...).

    Also, Zimmer's (and his team's) sound has been so successful, that every action film now sounds like it. So we could be in for a very generic OST.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited December 2019 Posts: 8,231
    mtm wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Nah I think it very much does ape Barry: it’s almost hard to tell it’s not him if you’re not really paying attention. I wouldn’t want a composer to stick so close: I’d much rather something new and fresh. I want a composer to look at Bond and decide for themselves how that would be represented musically. Much like Newman did, I think they’re likely to decide on something not a million miles away from what we’ve had before (I think it’s hard to lose the brass and big epic, full sound) but I don’t want the same old.

    Anything could sound like anything if you're not paying attention, so I think you're completely wrong here. There's certainly brass and the usual featured instruments in there, but it very much has more of a feverish, percussive soul element to the instrumentation that makes it undoubtedly not John Barry, even to a casual ear. The theme song helps a great deal, and further solidifies how important it is that the composer be granted a chance to work with the songwriter regardless of their stylistic approaches. LALD is a fine example of that, managing to not ape what came before but still be unmistakably Bond.

    That's what the aim should always be.

    Nah, it’s a very similar score type of score to the films surrounding it, albeit with a funk, Taking of Pelham-style element added which is there to suit the film (and is rather obviously not Martin’s usual thing!) so is conceivably a flavour Barry might have even gone with it had he done it (and he himself did flirt with that 70s sound in a few of his scores - Game of Death for example). It’s very Barryish, more so than something like the TSWLM score soon after.

    Nah. It isn't in the slightest I'm afraid, unless by similar type of score you mean "Bond score" which I absolutely agree with. It certainly is a Bond score.

    I appreciate you sticking to your guns though, even if you have to use a hypothetical "might have" in order to back it up! :))
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.

    This is another extreme and it's not really something I can get on board with either. The answer, the thing I am on board with, for modern Bond lies in the middle. Strangely enough -considering he's the basis for your argument - Arnold knew that too. And nobody can accuse him of not being a Bond fan.

    But there you go. I'm glad everyone is so passionate about the music. It's an afterthought in so many other series' and franchises. Good to see such strong debate about it.
    Univex wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Bottom line, my guess (assuming this is true) is that it just wasn’t Bondian enough. Different can be good, but not too much. I suspect the same case with Boyle’s idea/script.
    Spot on.
    Yep. I've said this over and over again, I appreciate originality within the formula, but wanting to deconstruct the formula to a point of it not being recognisable is as dumb as you can get. Want a different kind of movie? Go watch a different kind of movie. I, as many, want a Bond film.

    Agreed, (as always!) @Univex.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.

    I would advise folks not to engage with the sort of baiting this poster is displaying: it’s really not worth it.

    Get a grip mate. It's an opinion (and the last line was meant in jest, but you obviously didn't pick that up).
  • GeraldCmin6GeraldCmin6
    Posts: 25
    Please god not Zimmer. 1917 is all done, surely Thomas Newman is free?
  • DrClatterhandDrClatterhand United Kingdom
    Posts: 349
    Please don't bring back Poundshop John Barry. My dream would be Daniel Pemberton, as he's very talented and inventive. Looks like it's Zimmer though, or someone in his workmanlike coterie.
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited December 2019 Posts: 3,333
    AKillToAView wrote: »
    I have a feeling all the people on here who hated Romer because his work didn't sound enough like Barry and was too "ambient/techno" that are now happy RCP is in charge are in for a bit of a nasty surprise.
    I don't think you'll find too many of us who disliked the Romer choice are now happy with Zimmer/RCP replacing him. Sure, there's always a small minority, but most of us have some good taste and ignore them anyway.

    I agree with @jetsetwilly on this one. Bring back Arnold.
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    Also, I know people here are now going to bag on the idea of getting rid of Romer because it’ was deemed “out there.” Just because something’s different doesn’t mean it’s good, it can also mean it sucks. I’m ok with them listening to it and saying, “yeah, thank you, no.”
    Precisely.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,606
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Nah I think it very much does ape Barry: it’s almost hard to tell it’s not him if you’re not really paying attention. I wouldn’t want a composer to stick so close: I’d much rather something new and fresh. I want a composer to look at Bond and decide for themselves how that would be represented musically. Much like Newman did, I think they’re likely to decide on something not a million miles away from what we’ve had before (I think it’s hard to lose the brass and big epic, full sound) but I don’t want the same old.

    Anything could sound like anything if you're not paying attention, so I think you're completely wrong here. There's certainly brass and the usual featured instruments in there, but it very much has more of a feverish, percussive soul element to the instrumentation that makes it undoubtedly not John Barry, even to a casual ear. The theme song helps a great deal, and further solidifies how important it is that the composer be granted a chance to work with the songwriter regardless of their stylistic approaches. LALD is a fine example of that, managing to not ape what came before but still be unmistakably Bond.

    That's what the aim should always be.

    Nah, it’s a very similar score type of score to the films surrounding it, albeit with a funk, Taking of Pelham-style element added which is there to suit the film (and is rather obviously not Martin’s usual thing!) so is conceivably a flavour Barry might have even gone with it had he done it (and he himself did flirt with that 70s sound in a few of his scores - Game of Death for example). It’s very Barryish, more so than something like the TSWLM score soon after.

    Nah. It isn't in the slightest I'm afraid, unless by similar type of score you mean "Bond score" which I absolutely agree with. It certainly is a Bond score.

    I appreciate you sticking to your guns though, even if you have to resort to a hypothetical "might have" in order to back it up! :)


    On the other hand, I can’t really appreciate someone resorting to a faux patronising tone though. C’mon, we can be civil.
    I would say that if it recognisably a Bond score, then as it was the first non-Barry score after he’d defined the sound for six films in a row, then it is rather by definition doing what Barry was doing. There wasn’t anything but the Barry sound when it came to Bond!




  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    GeraldCmin6 wrote: »
    Please god not Zimmer. 1917 is all done, surely Thomas Newman is free?

    Give me Zimmer over Newman any day of the week.
  • UnivexUnivex
    Posts: 6,710
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.

    I would advise folks not to engage with the sort of baiting this poster is displaying: it’s really not worth it.

    Get a grip mate. It's an opinion (and the last line was meant in jest, but you obviously didn't pick that up).

    Hey, before this gets out of hand, @jetsetwilly is legit, not just a "poster" or a "guy" baiting, he's a lifelong member of these forums and has a right to an opinion that, in fact, many of us share. He was not baiting, he was making some humour out of it, if a bit hyperbolic in his sarcasm. Do get along fellas. In fact, you two should get along just nicely.

    Here's an opinion, there isn't a "Barry sound", as Barry had many brilliant works. There is a "Bond sound" with which Barry infused the early Bond films. Just as there isn't a gun barrel in the books (dah). Binder's and Adam's designs and Barry's Bond music became quintessential Bond. That is what's all about regarding the cinematic James Bond. Hey, I'm a Fleming purist and a novels fan. But I do appreciate the James Bond films as they are. A thing of their own. And the "Bond sound" is as much of a thing as the gunbarrel and the opening titles. Take that away and you've got something else, not a Bond film. Can you do variations on the gunbarrel and the opening credits, and the sound? Of course. But change them entirely and you've changed what Bond films are all about.

    See? An opinion not unlike @jetsetwilly's. Do carry on now :-D
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    AKillToAView wrote: »
    I have a feeling all the people on here who hated Romer because his work didn't sound enough like Barry and was too "ambient/techno" that are now happy RCP is in charge are in for a bit of a nasty surprise.

    Is RCP confirmed?
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    Univex wrote: »
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.

    I would advise folks not to engage with the sort of baiting this poster is displaying: it’s really not worth it.

    Get a grip mate. It's an opinion (and the last line was meant in jest, but you obviously didn't pick that up).

    Hey, before this gets out of hand, @jetsetwilly is legit, not just a "poster" or a "guy" baiting, he's a lifelong member of these forums and has a right to an opinion that, in fact, many of us share. He was not baiting, he was making some humour out of it, if a bit hyperbolic in his sarcasm. Do get along fellas. In fact, you two should get along just nicely.

    Here's an opinion, there isn't a "Barry sound", as Barry had many brilliant works. There is a "Bond sound" with which Barry infused the early Bond films. Just as there isn't a gun barrel in the books (dah). Binder's and Adam's designs and Barry's Bond music became quintessential Bond. That is what's all about regarding the cinematic James Bond. Hey, I'm a Fleming purist and a novels fan. But I do appreciate the James Bond films as they are. A thing of their own. And the "Bond sound" is as much of a thing as the gunbarrel and the opening titles. Take that away and you've got something else, not a Bond film. Can you do variations on the gunbarrel and the opening credits, and the sound? Of course. But change them entirely and you've changed what Bond films are all about.

    See? An opinion not unlike @jetsetwilly's. Do carry on now :-D

    Cheers Univex. B-)
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    mtm wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Nah I think it very much does ape Barry: it’s almost hard to tell it’s not him if you’re not really paying attention. I wouldn’t want a composer to stick so close: I’d much rather something new and fresh. I want a composer to look at Bond and decide for themselves how that would be represented musically. Much like Newman did, I think they’re likely to decide on something not a million miles away from what we’ve had before (I think it’s hard to lose the brass and big epic, full sound) but I don’t want the same old.

    Anything could sound like anything if you're not paying attention, so I think you're completely wrong here. There's certainly brass and the usual featured instruments in there, but it very much has more of a feverish, percussive soul element to the instrumentation that makes it undoubtedly not John Barry, even to a casual ear. The theme song helps a great deal, and further solidifies how important it is that the composer be granted a chance to work with the songwriter regardless of their stylistic approaches. LALD is a fine example of that, managing to not ape what came before but still be unmistakably Bond.

    That's what the aim should always be.

    Nah, it’s a very similar score type of score to the films surrounding it, albeit with a funk, Taking of Pelham-style element added which is there to suit the film (and is rather obviously not Martin’s usual thing!) so is conceivably a flavour Barry might have even gone with it had he done it (and he himself did flirt with that 70s sound in a few of his scores - Game of Death for example). It’s very Barryish, more so than something like the TSWLM score soon after.

    Nah. It isn't in the slightest I'm afraid, unless by similar type of score you mean "Bond score" which I absolutely agree with. It certainly is a Bond score.

    I appreciate you sticking to your guns though, even if you have to resort to a hypothetical "might have" in order to back it up! :)


    On the other hand, I can’t really appreciate someone resorting to a faux patronising tone though. C’mon, we can be civil.
    I would say that if it recognisably a Bond score, then as it was the first non-Barry score after he’d defined the sound for six films in a row, then it is rather by definition doing what Barry was doing. There wasn’t anything but the Barry sound when it came to Bond!

    We certainly can. We can also joke about our differences as well, can we not? Not everything is intended to be patronising. ;)

    Well, I of course was looking at it in the context of the entire series, not just the entries before it and my opinion of it remains the same. To do it your way would shift the goalposts a bit and narrow the field of view on something intended to be looked at broadly.

    But, if you really wanted to look at that way, I'd still stick by my own guns in the sense that it doesn't sound like a Barry copycat despite following his template established with the six films previous. So, whichever way works for you is fine.
  • UnivexUnivex
    Posts: 6,710
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.

    I would advise folks not to engage with the sort of baiting this poster is displaying: it’s really not worth it.

    Get a grip mate. It's an opinion (and the last line was meant in jest, but you obviously didn't pick that up).

    Hey, before this gets out of hand, @jetsetwilly is legit, not just a "poster" or a "guy" baiting, he's a lifelong member of these forums and has a right to an opinion that, in fact, many of us share. He was not baiting, he was making some humour out of it, if a bit hyperbolic in his sarcasm. Do get along fellas. In fact, you two should get along just nicely.

    Here's an opinion, there isn't a "Barry sound", as Barry had many brilliant works. There is a "Bond sound" with which Barry infused the early Bond films. Just as there isn't a gun barrel in the books (dah). Binder's and Adam's designs and Barry's Bond music became quintessential Bond. That is what's all about regarding the cinematic James Bond. Hey, I'm a Fleming purist and a novels fan. But I do appreciate the James Bond films as they are. A thing of their own. And the "Bond sound" is as much of a thing as the gunbarrel and the opening titles. Take that away and you've got something else, not a Bond film. Can you do variations on the gunbarrel and the opening credits, and the sound? Of course. But change them entirely and you've changed what Bond films are all about.

    See? An opinion not unlike @jetsetwilly's. Do carry on now :-D

    Cheers Univex. B-)

    No prob, old pal. I see you're looking a bit Scottish these day,...less...well, Welsh. Hope your love for Dalton hasn't diminished throughout the years.

    About the sound, I'm glad if this Romer business turns out to be true. Never been a fan. I'm still hoping for some orchestral (even if synthesised) greatness from Balfe. He's good with themes, as proven by His Dark Materials on the BBC.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2019 Posts: 12,480
    So tons of new posts, and I just zip to the end to see if any news yet. Nope, okay.
    Of course people will now speculate on everything and also rehash favorite composers, etc. Who is this Barry person some of you speak of? ;)

    Seriously, I'm fine with Zimmer. I feel a bit bad for Romer, but that is part of the business (dealing with things like this). "out there" can mean a thousand different things, so I'm not going to try to imagine that really. It's irrelevant now anyway. Interesting if Cary really wanted this change - and I think that bodes well for him, in general; means he's taking the whole "Bond film" music seriously. I don't mind if the composer is not a slave to former Bond films' music. I do like a melody, though, especially with the theme song (different from composer, I know). We shall see. But I'm still quite positive about the film, and feel the change of composers is probably warranted and a good thing we will have someone new. Probably Zimmer or someone on his team. I really don't mind that at this point.
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