NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • Posts: 6,709
    So tons of new posts, and I just zip to the end to see if any news yet. Nope, okay.
    Of course people will now speculate on everything and also rehash favorite composers, etc. Who is this Barry person some of you speak of? ;)

    Seriously, I'm fine with Zimmer. I feel a bit bad for Romer, but that is part of the business (dealing with things like this). "out there" can mean a thousand different things, so I'm not going to try to imagine that really. It's irrelevant now anyway. Interesting if Cary really wanted this change - and I think that bodes well for him, in general; means he's taking the whole "Bond film" music seriously. I don't mind if the composer is not a slave to former Bond films' music. I do like a melody, though, especially with the theme song (different from composer, I know). We shall see. But I'm still quite positive about the film, and feel the change of composers is probably warranted and a good thing we will have someone new. Probably Zimmer or someone on his team. I really don't mind that at this point.

    My feelings exactly. Very positive here. And about those tons of new posts, well, at least miraculously they have been interesting and civil. A true Christmas miracle, I'd say ;)
  • Posts: 3,327
    Univex wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.

    I would advise folks not to engage with the sort of baiting this poster is displaying: it’s really not worth it.

    Get a grip mate. It's an opinion (and the last line was meant in jest, but you obviously didn't pick that up).

    Hey, before this gets out of hand, @jetsetwilly is legit, not just a "poster" or a "guy" baiting, he's a lifelong member of these forums and has a right to an opinion that, in fact, many of us share. He was not baiting, he was making some humour out of it, if a bit hyperbolic in his sarcasm. Do get along fellas. In fact, you two should get along just nicely.

    Here's an opinion, there isn't a "Barry sound", as Barry had many brilliant works. There is a "Bond sound" with which Barry infused the early Bond films. Just as there isn't a gun barrel in the books (dah). Binder's and Adam's designs and Barry's Bond music became quintessential Bond. That is what's all about regarding the cinematic James Bond. Hey, I'm a Fleming purist and a novels fan. But I do appreciate the James Bond films as they are. A thing of their own. And the "Bond sound" is as much of a thing as the gunbarrel and the opening titles. Take that away and you've got something else, not a Bond film. Can you do variations on the gunbarrel and the opening credits, and the sound? Of course. But change them entirely and you've changed what Bond films are all about.

    See? An opinion not unlike @jetsetwilly's. Do carry on now :-D

    Cheers Univex. B-)

    No prob, old pal. I see you're looking a bit Scottish these day,...less...well, Welsh. Hope your love for Dalton hasn't diminished throughout the years.

    About the sound, I'm glad if this Romer business turns out to be true. Never been a fan. I'm still hoping for some orchestral (even if synthesised) greatness from Balfe. He's good with themes, as proven by His Dark Materials on the BBC.

    Yesh Univexsh. Connery is still my fav Bond, but my love for Dalton hasn't died.

    Arnold is still my number 1 choice, but failing that I would like the guy who did the First Man soundtrack, as that sounded very much like Barry (particularly the moon landing sequence.)

    After that, I would be ok with Zimmer or Balfe too.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    If Zimmer or any RCP composer scores NTTD, it's likely going to sound like Pfeifer Broz's theme for the Casino Royale trailer. It even contains a choir rendition of the Bond theme in some parts, it's bombastic....but it still sounds like Bond & Barry. I don't think Zimmer's style is too far from it to be honest.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    It would be interesting to know if it was EON or Cary himself that were unhappy with Romer's efforts? It doesn't make much difference at the end of the day but it'd be another interesting insight into what is happening and how everyone is feeling about the film.
  • Posts: 3,327
    It would be interesting to know if it was EON or Cary himself that were unhappy with Romer's efforts? It doesn't make much difference at the end of the day but it'd be another interesting insight into what is happening and how everyone is feeling about the film.

    I'd love to know too. I wonder if we'll ever find out.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,203
    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.

    I would advise folks not to engage with the sort of baiting this poster is displaying: it’s really not worth it.

    Not baiting at all, It’s obvious that he’s being intentionally a bit over the top while making a valid point. the “Barry sound” is part of the character’s film legacy and should be the foundation for any score. Now with that , a creative, talented composer can bring fresh elements .
    All I know the use of the words “aping” and
    “ pastiche “ has become ludicrously pretentious.
  • Posts: 3,327
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.

    I would advise folks not to engage with the sort of baiting this poster is displaying: it’s really not worth it.

    Not baiting at all, It’s obvious that he’s being intentionally a bit over the top while making a valid point. the “Barry sound” is part of the character’s film legacy and should be the foundation for any score. Now with that , a creative, talented composer can bring fresh elements .
    All I know the use of the words “aping” and
    “ pastiche “ has become ludicrously pretentious.

    I think maybe @mtm is having a bad day. Let's cut him some slack.
  • edited December 2019 Posts: 17,753
    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    No thanks. Would you want someone playing Bond as Sean Connery? It’s as bad for me. Be your own thing.

    I wouldn't mind someone playing Bond (close to) as Sean Connery did it – if it's the right kind of actor. Same with a composer sticking close to Barry.

    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example.

    Good point's @CraigMooreOHMSS – and I can agree with all this. My reason for not minding someone aping the Barry sound/style, is mostly just because I'd want to see how a very Barry-esque score would fit a modern-day Bond. It might end up like something very out of date, but I would still like to see it. Not expecting that to happen of course.

    I think Pemberton would be my pick out of current composers (if not including Arnold). As we saw with U.N.C.L.E he wasn't afraid to how his inspirations with each track, and it made for an interesting and quite refreshing score, IMO.

    That was intentionally a retro film though, even set in the past. I rather like that it was a based on 60s Italian spy films which is a genre I’ve not seen a Hollywood film do before, but I wouldn’t want Bond going retro.

    A throwback sound isn't necessarily a bad thing in a present day set film, if you ask me.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited December 2019 Posts: 5,185
    Univex wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.

    I would advise folks not to engage with the sort of baiting this poster is displaying: it’s really not worth it.

    Get a grip mate. It's an opinion (and the last line was meant in jest, but you obviously didn't pick that up).

    Hey, before this gets out of hand, @jetsetwilly is legit, not just a "poster" or a "guy" baiting, he's a lifelong member of these forums and has a right to an opinion that, in fact, many of us share. He was not baiting, he was making some humour out of it, if a bit hyperbolic in his sarcasm. Do get along fellas. In fact, you two should get along just nicely.

    Here's an opinion, there isn't a "Barry sound", as Barry had many brilliant works. There is a "Bond sound" with which Barry infused the early Bond films. Just as there isn't a gun barrel in the books (dah). Binder's and Adam's designs and Barry's Bond music became quintessential Bond. That is what's all about regarding the cinematic James Bond. Hey, I'm a Fleming purist and a novels fan. But I do appreciate the James Bond films as they are. A thing of their own. And the "Bond sound" is as much of a thing as the gunbarrel and the opening titles. Take that away and you've got something else, not a Bond film. Can you do variations on the gunbarrel and the opening credits, and the sound? Of course. But change them entirely and you've changed what Bond films are all about.

    See? An opinion not unlike @jetsetwilly's. Do carry on now :-D

    Cheers Univex. B-)

    No prob, old pal. I see you're looking a bit Scottish these day,...less...well, Welsh. Hope your love for Dalton hasn't diminished throughout the years.

    About the sound, I'm glad if this Romer business turns out to be true. Never been a fan. I'm still hoping for some orchestral (even if synthesised) greatness from Balfe. He's good with themes, as proven by His Dark Materials on the BBC.

    Yesh Univexsh. Connery is still my fav Bond, but my love for Dalton hasn't died.

    Arnold is still my number 1 choice, but failing that I would like the guy who did the First Man soundtrack, as that sounded very much like Barry (particularly the moon landing sequence.)

    After that, I would be ok with Zimmer or Balfe too.

    Not a bad choice either. Justin Hurwitz is Damien Chazelles main composer, and since Cary and EoN got a lot of Chazelles crew for NTTD, they might as well go that extra mile and get him on board as well. Would be a much more inspired choice than RCP too.
  • Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    No thanks. Would you want someone playing Bond as Sean Connery? It’s as bad for me. Be your own thing.

    I wouldn't mind someone playing Bond (close to) as Sean Connery did it – if it's the right kind of actor. Same with a composer sticking close to Barry.

    A throwback sound isn't necessarily a bad thing in a present day set film, if you ask me.

    I'm all for retro nods, just the way Arnold did it in QoS, reminiscent of DAF/Walkabout, circa 1971 John Barry. I'm also definitely up for an actor in the Connery/Lazenby mould too for the next Bond.

  • edited December 2019 Posts: 17,753
    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    No thanks. Would you want someone playing Bond as Sean Connery? It’s as bad for me. Be your own thing.

    I wouldn't mind someone playing Bond (close to) as Sean Connery did it – if it's the right kind of actor. Same with a composer sticking close to Barry.

    A throwback sound isn't necessarily a bad thing in a present day set film, if you ask me.

    I'm all for retro nods, just the way Arnold did it in QoS, reminiscent of DAF/Walkabout, circa 1971 John Barry. I'm also definitely up for an actor in the Connery/Lazenby mould too for the next Bond.

    Both of these things – retro score and a Connery-esque actor – would put a big grin on my face at the cinema, and that's what I want from a Bond film.
  • edited December 2019 Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    No thanks. Would you want someone playing Bond as Sean Connery? It’s as bad for me. Be your own thing.

    I wouldn't mind someone playing Bond (close to) as Sean Connery did it – if it's the right kind of actor. Same with a composer sticking close to Barry.

    A throwback sound isn't necessarily a bad thing in a present day set film, if you ask me.

    I'm all for retro nods, just the way Arnold did it in QoS, reminiscent of DAF/Walkabout, circa 1971 John Barry. I'm also definitely up for an actor in the Connery/Lazenby mould too for the next Bond.

    Both of these things – retro score and a Connery-esque actor – would put a big grin on my face at the cinema, and that's what I want from a Bond film.

    You and me both pal. Throw in a few closely adapted Fleming scenes too and I'm an ecstatic customer. B-)
  • Posts: 17,753
    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    No thanks. Would you want someone playing Bond as Sean Connery? It’s as bad for me. Be your own thing.

    I wouldn't mind someone playing Bond (close to) as Sean Connery did it – if it's the right kind of actor. Same with a composer sticking close to Barry.

    A throwback sound isn't necessarily a bad thing in a present day set film, if you ask me.

    I'm all for retro nods, just the way Arnold did it in QoS, reminiscent of DAF/Walkabout, circa 1971 John Barry. I'm also definitely up for an actor in the Connery/Lazenby mould too for the next Bond.

    Both of these things – retro score and a Connery-esque actor – would put a big grin on my face at the cinema, and that's what I want from a Bond film.

    You and me both pal. Throw in a few closely adapted Fleming scenes too and I'm an ecstatic customer. B-)

    I never go into the cinema expecting the films to feature closely adapted Fleming scenes, but I wouldn't be against it if they did!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,359
    Univex wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.

    I would advise folks not to engage with the sort of baiting this poster is displaying: it’s really not worth it.

    Get a grip mate. It's an opinion (and the last line was meant in jest, but you obviously didn't pick that up).

    Hey, before this gets out of hand, @jetsetwilly is legit, not just a "poster" or a "guy" baiting, he's a lifelong member of these forums and has a right to an opinion that, in fact, many of us share. He was not baiting, he was making some humour out of it, if a bit hyperbolic in his sarcasm. Do get along fellas. In fact, you two should get along just nicely.

    Here's an opinion, there isn't a "Barry sound", as Barry had many brilliant works. There is a "Bond sound" with which Barry infused the early Bond films. Just as there isn't a gun barrel in the books (dah). Binder's and Adam's designs and Barry's Bond music became quintessential Bond. That is what's all about regarding the cinematic James Bond. Hey, I'm a Fleming purist and a novels fan. But I do appreciate the James Bond films as they are. A thing of their own. And the "Bond sound" is as much of a thing as the gunbarrel and the opening titles. Take that away and you've got something else, not a Bond film. Can you do variations on the gunbarrel and the opening credits, and the sound? Of course. But change them entirely and you've changed what Bond films are all about.

    See? An opinion not unlike @jetsetwilly's. Do carry on now :-D

    I don’t entirely agree with the idea that Barry didn’t have a sound, but you’re obviously welcome to your opinion: I’m just not going to claim you’re not a Bond fan because we have different opinions. That was kind of the point; it’s silly and it’s just there to bait an argument.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,359
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Nah I think it very much does ape Barry: it’s almost hard to tell it’s not him if you’re not really paying attention. I wouldn’t want a composer to stick so close: I’d much rather something new and fresh. I want a composer to look at Bond and decide for themselves how that would be represented musically. Much like Newman did, I think they’re likely to decide on something not a million miles away from what we’ve had before (I think it’s hard to lose the brass and big epic, full sound) but I don’t want the same old.

    Anything could sound like anything if you're not paying attention, so I think you're completely wrong here. There's certainly brass and the usual featured instruments in there, but it very much has more of a feverish, percussive soul element to the instrumentation that makes it undoubtedly not John Barry, even to a casual ear. The theme song helps a great deal, and further solidifies how important it is that the composer be granted a chance to work with the songwriter regardless of their stylistic approaches. LALD is a fine example of that, managing to not ape what came before but still be unmistakably Bond.

    That's what the aim should always be.

    Nah, it’s a very similar score type of score to the films surrounding it, albeit with a funk, Taking of Pelham-style element added which is there to suit the film (and is rather obviously not Martin’s usual thing!) so is conceivably a flavour Barry might have even gone with it had he done it (and he himself did flirt with that 70s sound in a few of his scores - Game of Death for example). It’s very Barryish, more so than something like the TSWLM score soon after.

    Nah. It isn't in the slightest I'm afraid, unless by similar type of score you mean "Bond score" which I absolutely agree with. It certainly is a Bond score.

    I appreciate you sticking to your guns though, even if you have to resort to a hypothetical "might have" in order to back it up! :)


    On the other hand, I can’t really appreciate someone resorting to a faux patronising tone though. C’mon, we can be civil.
    I would say that if it recognisably a Bond score, then as it was the first non-Barry score after he’d defined the sound for six films in a row, then it is rather by definition doing what Barry was doing. There wasn’t anything but the Barry sound when it came to Bond!

    We certainly can. We can also joke about our differences as well, can we not? Not everything is intended to be patronising. ;)

    Some things, however, clearly are ;)
    Well, I of course was looking at it in the context of the entire series, not just the entries before it and my opinion of it remains the same. To do it your way would shift the goalposts a bit and narrow the field of view on something intended to be looked at broadly.

    But, if you really wanted to look at that way, I'd still stick by my own guns in the sense that it doesn't sound like a Barry copycat despite following his template established with the six films previous. So, whichever way works for you is fine.

    I just tend to think that if Martin was aiming for the established ’Bond sound’ as you put it, it’s more likely that he drew inspiration from the past and scores which had avtually been written, than things from the future which hadn’t been made yet and no one had heard ;) We really can joke about our differences!

    I’ve kind of lost track of your argument here: it doesn’t really make sense. If you’re saying he made a score which fitted the Bond sound, it can only be the Barry sound you’re talking about. He was the only one up to that point.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2019 Posts: 16,359
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.

    I would advise folks not to engage with the sort of baiting this poster is displaying: it’s really not worth it.

    Not baiting at all, It’s obvious that he’s being intentionally a bit over the top while making a valid point. the “Barry sound” is part of the character’s film legacy and should be the foundation for any score. Now with that , a creative, talented composer can bring fresh elements .
    All I know the use of the words “aping” and
    “ pastiche “ has become ludicrously pretentious.

    Those really are just... words. You’re clearly not a Bond fan if you disagree ;)
    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    No thanks. Would you want someone playing Bond as Sean Connery? It’s as bad for me. Be your own thing.

    I wouldn't mind someone playing Bond (close to) as Sean Connery did it – if it's the right kind of actor. Same with a composer sticking close to Barry.

    A throwback sound isn't necessarily a bad thing in a present day set film, if you ask me.

    I'm all for retro nods, just the way Arnold did it in QoS, reminiscent of DAF/Walkabout, circa 1971 John Barry. I'm also definitely up for an actor in the Connery/Lazenby mould too for the next Bond.

    Both of these things – retro score and a Connery-esque actor – would put a big grin on my face at the cinema, and that's what I want from a Bond film.

    I’m talking about a Connery impersonation though. You seriously think that would be a way to move this series forward!? The lead raising his eyebrow, saying ‘but of course’ and ‘surely’ all the time with a sexy Scottish speech impediment? You don’t think that would be stale and a terrible self parody? You’re obviously welcome to think that but I’m just a bit... I don’t get it. It can only be worse than someone doing their own best rather than trying to copy someone else’s.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    I have a feeling all the people on here who hated Romer because his work didn't sound enough like Barry and was too "ambient/techno" that are now happy RCP is in charge are in for a bit of a nasty surprise.

    Very likely.
    +2
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited December 2019 Posts: 8,203
    Walecs wrote: »
    I have a feeling all the people on here who hated Romer because his work didn't sound enough like Barry and was too "ambient/techno" that are now happy RCP is in charge are in for a bit of a nasty surprise.

    Very likely.
    +2

    -1
    They know they have something special with this film. After the false start with Boyle, solid decisions have been made. If the rumors are true, it’s obvious that Romer’s vision did not compliment the film.
    I have faith that Barbara and Cary will continue to make the right choices to bring home a winner, and that includes the person doing the score.
  • DrClatterhandDrClatterhand United Kingdom
    Posts: 349
    mtm wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.

    I would advise folks not to engage with the sort of baiting this poster is displaying: it’s really not worth it.

    Not baiting at all, It’s obvious that he’s being intentionally a bit over the top while making a valid point. the “Barry sound” is part of the character’s film legacy and should be the foundation for any score. Now with that , a creative, talented composer can bring fresh elements .
    All I know the use of the words “aping” and
    “ pastiche “ has become ludicrously pretentious.

    Those really are just... words. You’re clearly not a Bond fan if you disagree ;)
    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    No thanks. Would you want someone playing Bond as Sean Connery? It’s as bad for me. Be your own thing.

    I wouldn't mind someone playing Bond (close to) as Sean Connery did it – if it's the right kind of actor. Same with a composer sticking close to Barry.

    A throwback sound isn't necessarily a bad thing in a present day set film, if you ask me.

    I'm all for retro nods, just the way Arnold did it in QoS, reminiscent of DAF/Walkabout, circa 1971 John Barry. I'm also definitely up for an actor in the Connery/Lazenby mould too for the next Bond.

    Both of these things – retro score and a Connery-esque actor – would put a big grin on my face at the cinema, and that's what I want from a Bond film.

    I’m talking about a Connery impersonation though. You seriously think that would be a way to move this series forward!? The lead raising his eyebrow, saying ‘but of course’ and ‘surely’ all the time with a sexy Scottish speech impediment? You don’t think that would be stale and a terrible self parody? You’re obviously welcome to think that but I’m just a bit... I don’t get it. It can only be worse than someone doing their own best rather than trying to copy someone else’s.

    Very well said. EoN understand how to move Bond forward now. Tired tropes aren't for me. Denis Villeneuve needs to direct the next installment. He brought such fresh and innovative ideas to an existing property, whilst respecting what came before. I'd love a completely clean slate for Bond 26. Maybe PW-B can stay on, assuming No Time To Die zings in all the right places.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    talos7 wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    I have a feeling all the people on here who hated Romer because his work didn't sound enough like Barry and was too "ambient/techno" that are now happy RCP is in charge are in for a bit of a nasty surprise.

    Very likely.
    +2

    -1
    They know they have something special with this film. After the false start with Boyle, solid decisions have been made. If the rumors are true, it’s obvious that Romer’s vision did not compliment the film.
    I have faith that Barbara and Cary will continue to make the right choices to bring home a winner, and that includes the person doing the score.

    17c.png
  • It would be interesting to know if it was EON or Cary himself that were unhappy with Romer's efforts? It doesn't make much difference at the end of the day but it'd be another interesting insight into what is happening and how everyone is feeling about the film.

    Difficult to say for certain of course, but given Romer scored Cary's last two projects, which were incredibly different in genre and tone, I would imagine the issue would be more on EON's side.

    Especially since the rumour is that they are specifically bringing in Zimmer/RCP, who are very much a safe choice when it comes to current blockbusters given their popularity and ability to work on very fast deadlines.

  • It would be interesting to know if it was EON or Cary himself that were unhappy with Romer's efforts? It doesn't make much difference at the end of the day but it'd be another interesting insight into what is happening and how everyone is feeling about the film.

    Difficult to say for certain of course, but given Romer scored Cary's last two projects, which were incredibly different in genre and tone, I would imagine the issue would be more on EON's side.

    Especially since the rumour is that they are specifically bringing in Zimmer/RCP, who are very much a safe choice when it comes to current blockbusters given their popularity and ability to work on very fast deadlines.

    Very true.

    But I think Beasts of No Nation and Maniac are very different from a Bond score. Perhaps, Fukunaga agreed with Eon. Maybe he wanted Romer because of his connection and then realised it wasn't a fit for NTTD.

    It happens. Denis Villenueve realised that his regular composer Johan Johannson wasn't right for Blade Runner till late. Perhaps the producers gave him a nudge in realising that.

    I watched Gemini Man recently and thought to myself, this is a great score and who's name turned up at the end.............Lorne Balfe.

    Just hire him already.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    talos7 wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    I have a feeling all the people on here who hated Romer because his work didn't sound enough like Barry and was too "ambient/techno" that are now happy RCP is in charge are in for a bit of a nasty surprise.

    Very likely.
    +2

    -1
    They know they have something special with this film. After the false start with Boyle, solid decisions have been made. If the rumors are true, it’s obvious that Romer’s vision did not compliment the film.
    I have faith that Barbara and Cary will continue to make the right choices to bring home a winner, and that includes the person doing the score.

    Agreed @talos7 ... I know you've watched Cary's Jane Eyre-- and you're a fan.

    I'd love to hear what you think of BEASTS OF NATION and TRUE DETECTIVE.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    If Romer is indeed done, does this actually mean (if true; and I think it is based on all the info coming in), that no one has settled on the theme song and who will be performing????
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2019 Posts: 16,359
    peter wrote: »
    If Romer is indeed done, does this actually mean (if true; and I think it is based on all the info coming in), that no one has settled on the theme song and who will be performing????

    I think they’re probably not very related. If they have got a singer they’ll be sticking with them. I guess if the score is delivered later than usual there may be more of a chance that the song melody will be incorporated into the score, for those who like that.
  • Posts: 6,709
    mtm wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind if a composer aped Barry's style and sound. In fact, it would make me even more enthusiastic about a Bond film.

    Using the template that Barry established would be the most important thing for me. You don't necessarily have to ape all things Barry to do a good Bond score, as Arnold proved. I never saw him as Barry-lite like a small number have done, just someone who understood what made the Barry scores special to so many. He put his own stamp on it stylistically to such a significant degree in his stronger scores that the accusations of mimicking Barry never rang true to me. Another composer with a different style could still accomplish the same thing, I feel. Be it Pemberton, Britell, Hurwitz, Romer, or one of the proposed RCP guys.

    Barry would still be there in spirit, of course. He hangs over Bond like Williams will always hang over Star Wars, and that's just how it is. You don't have to ape it, but there's no getting away from it either. Just look at Powell and Giacchino's Star Wars scores as an example. They're unmistakably Star Wars, obviously, but they're not just copy and pasting Williams' throughout.

    Barry sound is the only way to go for Bond, and Arnold is the only one who gets Barry, and can copy Barry perfectly.

    I want Anold back, and I want Barry-lite, Barry the second, Barry copied, Barry pastiche, Barry nods galore. The more Arnold tries to sound like Barry, the more pleased I get. I want to smile in the cinema and think to myself, `wow, that sounds just like John Barry!'

    Anyone who doesn't want this isn't a Bond fan, simple as that.

    I would advise folks not to engage with the sort of baiting this poster is displaying: it’s really not worth it.

    Get a grip mate. It's an opinion (and the last line was meant in jest, but you obviously didn't pick that up).

    Hey, before this gets out of hand, @jetsetwilly is legit, not just a "poster" or a "guy" baiting, he's a lifelong member of these forums and has a right to an opinion that, in fact, many of us share. He was not baiting, he was making some humour out of it, if a bit hyperbolic in his sarcasm. Do get along fellas. In fact, you two should get along just nicely.

    Here's an opinion, there isn't a "Barry sound", as Barry had many brilliant works. There is a "Bond sound" with which Barry infused the early Bond films. Just as there isn't a gun barrel in the books (dah). Binder's and Adam's designs and Barry's Bond music became quintessential Bond. That is what's all about regarding the cinematic James Bond. Hey, I'm a Fleming purist and a novels fan. But I do appreciate the James Bond films as they are. A thing of their own. And the "Bond sound" is as much of a thing as the gunbarrel and the opening titles. Take that away and you've got something else, not a Bond film. Can you do variations on the gunbarrel and the opening credits, and the sound? Of course. But change them entirely and you've changed what Bond films are all about.

    See? An opinion not unlike @jetsetwilly's. Do carry on now :-D

    I don’t entirely agree with the idea that Barry didn’t have a sound, but you’re obviously welcome to your opinion: I’m just not going to claim you’re not a Bond fan because we have different opinions. That was kind of the point; it’s silly and it’s just there to bait an argument.

    Well, I'm a big Barry fan. And yeah, he had a distinct "voice". But he also coined a style within his own, regarding Bond films. Still find his Out of Africa score his best, though.

    And I don't think @jetsetwilly was being serious about that "not a Bond fan" remark.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited December 2019 Posts: 8,216
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Nah I think it very much does ape Barry: it’s almost hard to tell it’s not him if you’re not really paying attention. I wouldn’t want a composer to stick so close: I’d much rather something new and fresh. I want a composer to look at Bond and decide for themselves how that would be represented musically. Much like Newman did, I think they’re likely to decide on something not a million miles away from what we’ve had before (I think it’s hard to lose the brass and big epic, full sound) but I don’t want the same old.

    Anything could sound like anything if you're not paying attention, so I think you're completely wrong here. There's certainly brass and the usual featured instruments in there, but it very much has more of a feverish, percussive soul element to the instrumentation that makes it undoubtedly not John Barry, even to a casual ear. The theme song helps a great deal, and further solidifies how important it is that the composer be granted a chance to work with the songwriter regardless of their stylistic approaches. LALD is a fine example of that, managing to not ape what came before but still be unmistakably Bond.

    That's what the aim should always be.

    Nah, it’s a very similar score type of score to the films surrounding it, albeit with a funk, Taking of Pelham-style element added which is there to suit the film (and is rather obviously not Martin’s usual thing!) so is conceivably a flavour Barry might have even gone with it had he done it (and he himself did flirt with that 70s sound in a few of his scores - Game of Death for example). It’s very Barryish, more so than something like the TSWLM score soon after.

    Nah. It isn't in the slightest I'm afraid, unless by similar type of score you mean "Bond score" which I absolutely agree with. It certainly is a Bond score.

    I appreciate you sticking to your guns though, even if you have to resort to a hypothetical "might have" in order to back it up! :)


    On the other hand, I can’t really appreciate someone resorting to a faux patronising tone though. C’mon, we can be civil.
    I would say that if it recognisably a Bond score, then as it was the first non-Barry score after he’d defined the sound for six films in a row, then it is rather by definition doing what Barry was doing. There wasn’t anything but the Barry sound when it came to Bond!

    We certainly can. We can also joke about our differences as well, can we not? Not everything is intended to be patronising. ;)

    Some things, however, clearly are ;)

    Whatever way you want to read it, buddy. That's entirely on you. No condescension here, only nitpicking on the use of an irrevelant hypothetical to prove a point. ;)
    mtm wrote: »
    I just tend to think that if Martin was aiming for the established ’Bond sound’ as you put it, it’s more likely that he drew inspiration from the past and scores which had avtually been written, than things from the future which hadn’t been made yet and no one had heard ;) We really can joke about our differences!

    I’ve kind of lost track of your argument here: it doesn’t really make sense. If you’re saying he made a score which fitted the Bond sound, it can only be the Barry sound you’re talking about. He was the only one up to that point.

    You're confusing the Bond "sound", a phrase that I didn't use, with something I've been stressing considerably in my comments; it's possible for a composer to make an unmistakably Bond score while not copying Barry's sound. That is what Martin did. I don't feel he copied Barry sonically at all, but you seem to. That is possibly where your confusion lies. The insistence on only comparing it to Barry's previous six only made it worse. That was something you insisted on, not me. If you're confused, have a read back to what was originally being said before the conversation was muddied.

    Hamlisch also managed it. I don't particularly like that score, but a lot of it is unmistakably Bond. Same goes for Conti. I didn't like the disco era of scoring, but the structure of the scores was the same as Barry's.

    So no, not style.

    Structure. A word that was repeatedly stressed. Hope this clears it up for you.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    If Romer is indeed done, does this actually mean (if true; and I think it is based on all the info coming in), that no one has settled on the theme song and who will be performing????

    I think they’re probably not very related. If they have got a singer they’ll be sticking with them. I guess if the score is delivered later than usual there may be more of a chance that the song melody will be incorporated into the score, for those who like that.

    You don't think the composer and main song is related, @mtm?

  • Posts: 6,709
    You're confusing the Bond "sound", a phrase that I didn't use, with something I've been stressing considerably in my comments; it's possible for a composer to make an unmistakably Bond score while not copying Barry's sound. That is what Martin did. I don't feel he copied Barry sonically at all, but you seem to. That is possibly where your confusion lies. The insistence on only comparing it to Barry's previous six only made it worse. That was something you insisted on, not me. If you're confused, have a read back to what was originally being said before the conversation was muddied.

    Hamlisch also managed it. I don't particularly like that score, but a lot of it is unmistakably Bond. Same goes for Conti. I didn't like the disco era of scoring, but the structure of the scores was the same as Barry's.

    So no, not style.

    Structure. A word that was repeatedly stressed. Hope this clears it up for you.

    Thank you for explaining it far better than I did. That was exactly what I was aiming to say. Well done.
  • edited December 2019 Posts: 440
    Very true.

    But I think Beasts of No Nation and Maniac are very different from a Bond score. Perhaps, Fukunaga agreed with Eon. Maybe he wanted Romer because of his connection and then realised it wasn't a fit for NTTD.

    It happens. Denis Villenueve realised that his regular composer Johan Johannson wasn't right for Blade Runner till late. Perhaps the producers gave him a nudge in realising that.

    I think what you're saying is definitely possible but keep in mind, just because a director says he loved the changes suggested by a producer, doesn't always mean he's telling the truth.

    Most likely, Cary and EON agreed on most of the movie's creative decisions and when they just didn't like the score, he figured it wasn't a hill worth dying on.

    Keep in mind, his IT project blew up due to frequent disagreements with the producers, and I think he realized that this was his biggest and possibly last shot at a major movie career.

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