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@mtm, you've made a mountain out of a molehill here, mate. If I have to keep explaining a relatively simple point to you then the issue isn't with the point. Sorry man, but the only reason you're having issues here is because you muddied the waters with your own vocabulary, stubbornness and an evident unwillingness to grasp a simple point -
a point that others have grasped, so it's not like I'm speaking into the void. It feels like you're looking for an argument, only to be the first to be offended soon after. So, I'm going to leave it there. I'm not too fond of having to repeat myself more than once.
But one last time for good measure....
Structure over style. That's what's important, I feel. ;)
Wallfisch composed the bulk of 2049, but yes, I'd agree that it was decent. Nothing spectacular but it fit the film well. DUNKIRK was pretty effective also, if a tad grating as an isolated listen.
Ottman's SUPERMAN RETURNS is massively underrated, I think. Like the film, it seems to have been forgotten.
One of my favorite film scores of all time. Such a shame it's lost in the legacy of a film that ended up being so questionable for the brand.
And as it happens, John Ottman is an extremely nice person. In the midst of that Superman Returns hype leading up to the film, I actually got a chance to correspond briefly with him and found him to be quite open and generous despite the pressures facing him at the time. I was thrilled and proud to see him take an Oscar home years later.
You want a perfect example of someone who brings freshness and inventiveness to an established franchise while revering (and reprising) the original music and themes at every opportunity where they belong? Look no further than Superman Returns.
Glad to see another fan of the score here, @AgentM72. It is all of the things you say and to me it is as good as the first two scores in many ways. The action material is superb.
Great story about Ottman too. A lot of people forget he is an Editor, as well.
Yep. A phenomenal combination of skills for a composer to have.
A few years ago, however, I dared to complement Ottman's SR score and got severely chastised for it by a member who called it unoriginal, uninspired and derivative. He wasn't alone in that opinion. Others came too; I was indirectly accused of being poor taste.
And that is also why with the Bonds, there's no way we can ever be unanimous about the music anymore, unless in the most negative of ways. Even if John Barry himself resurrected and gave us his best score ever, some would yell, "bring something fresh!, we've heard it all before". You lose if you try something new, and you lose if you bring the old stuff. Striking the right balance has become a tough trick to pull. I welcomed Romer because I figured that since he's still somewhat new to the game, he would probably labour hard to achieve said balance.
Ottman is a very reliable, smart composer who is often forgotten by many when it comes to listing some of the best working in Hollywood today. He's got a lot of range too - he can seemingly slip into any genre pretty easily.
As I said a few pages back before I was sidetracked, it's nice to see so many people are still so passionate about Bond music. I had hope for Romer but of course whatever he was doing wasn't to the filmmakers tastes. One thing I will say though, is that if the reports of the music being too "out there" are true, then that to me means that Romer wasn't simply going for the obvious and the score likely wasn't generic as some feared it would be. Whether it was too far the other direction now is something we'll likely never know.
Yeah,true...I think it's all about respecting preferences. Which in this case is film music. I've said am a Zimmer fan & would want him to score it....since Arnold isn't returning. Another guy might say he prefers Danny elfman to score it. The fact that I can't see Danny elfman doing it, doesn't mean the guy has poor taste. it's what he likes. Yes, we can have an amicable furore....but nothing resembling discord.
Indeed....I think Romer wasn't going for the obvious. Coz most of Romer's scores are quite unorthodox. There are only few of Romer's tracks that are quite linear when listening to them. A good example is 'Better Look Me In The Eyes' from Beasts Of No Nation (Possibly his best piece yet) and a few others from his other scores. Romer just prefers going for distorted Sounds in his scores.
I like that score a lot and it worked wonderfully in the film.
Indeed....I think Romer wasn't going for the obvious. Coz most of Romer's scores are quite unorthodox. There are only few of Romer's tracks that are quite linear when listening to them. Romer just prefers going for distorted Sounds in his Scores .
Yeah....me too. I like the score a lot as well & it really did suit the film. And possibly his best score. Just that some of his other scores sound very specific. And can only suit certain film types. Possibly well-suited for only indie films.
Yes I think you're right- Barry was missed after the lovely TLD score, but in retrospect I quite like the LTK score. It's kind of maximum Kamen and his scores are a lot of fun, and there are some really nice bits to it and gives the film a kind of dangerous-feeling edge. The suite with all of the best bits from the film is an enjoyable listen.
I think when you're having to ignore what I'm saying and then call me lots of names instead of responding then you're kind of making my point for me, mate ;)
If you feel structure over style is more important then that's great and I respect it: it's just not what we're actually discussing. I'm glad you're leaving it though because I feel you're perhaps not grasping what I'm saying at all. Never mind.
I dunno: I find it quite frustrating when he keeps flirting with those themes but barely actually using them! :) The bit where the love theme almost fully develops and then just kind of wilts away... I mean I know it's kind of matching what's on screen, but because it's such a lovely orchestration and full recording it always made me sad when it never got a full play!
It's a decent score but I think Ken Thorne does a pretty good job if it's revering original themes you're after. That sort of Prokofiev-ish bit is rather great and quite funny! :)
Exactly....in retrospect. The score actually grow on me. I wasn't a fan at first....and like you said Kamen was obviously going for that dangerous, edgy-feel. Possibly to suit Dalton's ire & the ominous atmosphere in the film.
I've never found the theme especially Bond-y but it is very enjoyable. I'll have another listen. It's quite a fun soundtrack, that one; shame the Marvels rarely go as interesting.
I guess speaking of Marvel people, I'd quite like Ludwig Goransson. Black Panther didn't do much for me, but I love the Bill Conti sound he uses on Creed and the Mandalorian. That'd be fun!
What names have I called you? I'd like a direct quote of anything inappropriate please. If not, feel free to DM me. I'll happily apologise if you can make a decent case as to how you've been unfairly treated. Anything I ignored from you was because it was irrevelant, which brings me to the most important part of the conversation and something you repeatedly keep overlooking, perhaps out of convenience....
I'm not sure what it was you were discussing, and it doesn't look like you do either. Nor do you seemingly have any point to make. But structure over style was what I was discussing and it has been since the beginning. The only one who wasn't discussing it was you, when you went off on this bizarre tangent. Again, if you would care to go back and actually read the comments, THAT was the original point. It's truly baffling that I have to keep saying this. Other members have had no trouble with it, so..... ;)
Don't forget about KINGSMAN: THE SECRET SERVICE for Jackman's ability to craft a ballsy, spy-infused action score. He'd be a decent choice too!
Oh for heaven's sake. If you don't think having a pop at my 'vocabulary, stubbornness and an evident unwillingness to grasp a simple point' is getting personal then I can't really explain it to you. And now you've just said I don't know what I was talking about. It's just abuse in place of intelligent discourse, really.
And no, we were discussing the Live and Let Die score and how it Barry's scores influenced it. You replied to me saying that and disagreed, that was the conversation. You can't just keep saying the word 'structure' as if it makes sense on its own. If you're not sure what we were discussing then I don't know why you've been doing it for several pages. I'm not going to play your faux-patronising game any more and accuse you of not being able to read or follow a conversation or any more nasty things like that (as I'm sure you're going to do once more with me) because I'm not into all of this sort of angry arguing and mud-flinging that you seem to be. I wish folks around here could discuss things a bit more civilly: discuss the point, not the person.
Yeah, it's a very good piece by Henry Jackman for Magneto's character. And truly Marvel of late, don't seem to pay attention to how their scores sound. And you're right, I didn't enjoy Goransson's Black Panther....I was even shocked by the Score's Oscar win.
Exactly....KINGSMAN: THE SECRET SERVICE is an effective Spy score. I think Jackman scored it with Matthew Margeson.
Yeah I didn't get through the BP score; it seemed fine but I much prefer Goransson's other work- and he is really good. I guess it won the Oscar for political reasons, but I'm not going to say that's a bad thing necessarily. I guess the politics of it are more important than these films and bits of music on their own.
I did love Magneto's theme at the time too! It really stands out. His 'First Class' track is very fun too- and as you mention Kingsman has great catchy tunes: these aren't stunningly important bits of music but they are good fun sort of film 'pop' if you know what I mean! :D
Again, no. You were discussing that. I responded, but it had nothing to do with what I was talking about. It was a tangent to my original point.
It's all well and good wishing for civil discourse, but if you say stupid things and make a seemingly conscious attempt at derailing conversations then you shouldn't be surprised when people call you out on it. If you're overly sensitive and take things like "your stubbornness" as a personal attack after behaving less than amicably yourself, well...it's on you. Nobody else.
This is the equivalent of someone talking all the way through a movie only to complain it made no sense at the end and give it one star.
Give it a rest. Stop clogging the thread. As I've said, if you have an issue with how I've spoken with you, my PMs are open.
He did indeed. Great fun.
I didn't enjoy Jackman's Marvel scores as much in comparison, unfortunately.
What original point? This thread is 52 pages long :D You responded several times, which rather makes it a conversation :) If you want to answer intelligently as to what this original point was which I so terribly interrupted by daring to say something which you chose to disagree with then that's great: if you want to insult my reading ability and say 'structure' again instead of an actual reply then it'll rather show what your priority is.
Yep, okay: I think it's clear you just want to call me names now.
I apologise to everyone having to read this: I'll invite Craig to call me more names over PM so I can ignore them there rather than him constantly filling this thread with them. I'm not interested in a pointless argument about nothing.
Yeah, true. But maybe a case can be made for his 'The Winter Soldier Theme'.....the track was quite eerie and fits in with Stan's portrayal of The Winter Soldier.
Hahaha....indeed they are. Artful music perhaps.
That's true, though it was essentially a redux of Zimmer's work for the Joker on THE DARK KNIGHT. As is a lot of the material, really.
Though, really the only great loss in Jackman's scores there was the lack of reference to Silvestri's march for the title character. Jackman of course did offer up his own take on the nobility and patriotic side of Cap, but it wasn't really as good.
That being said, he did a great job on THE PREDATOR. It was the only thing about that film that felt like a natural part of that series.
True....Jackman's 'The Winter Soldier Theme' was obviously a redux of the Joker's theme from The Dark Knight. The score was even criticized for being too similar with Zimmer's work. It also sounded like Steve Jablonsky's 'Lockdown Theme' for Transformers: Age of Extinction too. Almost like RCP chose that sound to be their Villain sound. And True, Jackman did a good in his The Predator score.
Can you please avoid double posting. Thank you.