NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Getafix wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Yes.

    Surely they'd have announced a new composer by now if there was any truth in this

    Zimmer & Wallfisch were announced as new composers for 2049 less than three months before the film release.
  • Posts: 12,526
    I wonder if we will ever hear what Romer had produced?
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    I wonder if we will ever hear what Romer had produced?

    Sure, if he's really out....the score could be released as a rejected score, that's maybe if Romer is proud of it . Much like the past where Booted Composers release their rejected scores.One of my favourite rejected score is Gabriel Yared's score for Troy....to me, it's better than James Horner's accepted score. But if it's true that Romer is indeed out....judging by his previous efforts, I'd say his score might have been very eccentric.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,366
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    If Hans Zimmer is indeed scoring NTTD, he's no fool. He knows it's JAMES BOND...so it definitely won't sound exactly like his previous scores. Look how he composed 'The Pacific Main Theme'...the listener might think it's John William's work. Zimmer was paying homage to William's style from 'Saving Private Ryan' & Michael Kamen's Score for 'Band of Brothers'....all of which were created or produced by Tom Hanks & Steven Spielberg. If he was that erratic, it would have sounded like what he's done before.

    Yeah he’s capable of working in any style. He probably could do a Barry-ish score, but I wouldn’t want him to as I’d be excited to see him come up with a fresh approach of his own. It’s all totally what-if at the moment though as we don’t know he’s going anywhere near it, and if he did it seems unlikely he’d be able to do the whole score. But who knows?

    Yeah, sure....I would also like a fresh approach, but with the composer doffing his hat to what has come before. I don't think a composer can score a western, without sounding a bit like Ennio Morricone.

    Oh I think that’s very possible, and I’m sure quite a few have since.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    If Hans Zimmer is indeed scoring NTTD, he's no fool. He knows it's JAMES BOND...so it definitely won't sound exactly like his previous scores. Look how he composed 'The Pacific Main Theme'...the listener might think it's John William's work. Zimmer was paying homage to William's style from 'Saving Private Ryan' & Michael Kamen's Score for 'Band of Brothers'....all of which were created or produced by Tom Hanks & Steven Spielberg. If he was that erratic, it would have sounded like what he's done before.

    Yeah he’s capable of working in any style. He probably could do a Barry-ish score, but I wouldn’t want him to as I’d be excited to see him come up with a fresh approach of his own. It’s all totally what-if at the moment though as we don’t know he’s going anywhere near it, and if he did it seems unlikely he’d be able to do the whole score. But who knows?

    Yeah, sure....I would also like a fresh approach, but with the composer doffing his hat to what has come before. I don't think a composer can score a western, without sounding a bit like Ennio Morricone.

    Oh I think that’s very possible, and I’m sure quite a few have since.

    Yeah, Sure
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited December 2019 Posts: 4,583
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I never loved the SF score much, I liked it but that changed Sunday night in Manchester.

    Hats off to Newman, this is one cracking score and those thinking the Bond theme isn't in the score much should probably watch the film again.

    No it is not the blatant reading that appears in the Aston unveiling scene with Bond and M in London but TN is weaving the theme throughout.

    I think we know why SPECTRE sounded lazy and it wasn't down to Newman that was Mendes and Lee Smith taking the SF score as a temp track and then deciding it sounded fine for the released film.

    While I really don't want Mendes near Bond again after SP, I think Newman with another director would not be a bad thing as long as no one butchers his score and uses already existing music.


    While I was willing to see what Romer would deliver I'm not surprised this has happened, I don't think we need an experimental score here we need something more traditional although not a Barry tribute act.

    If whoever from RCP takes on the baton, if they go down a similar route to Newman but dial up the Bondian sound I'll be quite happy.

    I never expected to come away from the Skyfall in concert feeling the way I did about the score but I feel quite silly now for bad mouthing Newman in past threads because his work in SF is superb.

    Interesting, @Shardlake

    I loved the SF score from the get-go. The music in the middle of the film is masterful: "Brave New World," "Shanghai Drive," "Modigliani," "Close Shave," "Komodo Dragon," "Someone Uusally Dies," and "The Chimera."
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited December 2019 Posts: 4,247
    Newman took a very avant-garde approach in SF & it worked....coz he seemed to be playing around Monty Norman's Bond theme & occasionally doffed his hat to Barry, which is very evident in the track 'Severine'. The problem was always SP's score. Although, it had it's own good tracks like 'Los Muertos Vivos Estan', 'Donna Lucia' , 'Crows Klinik', 'Madeleine', 'L' Americain', 'Secret Room', 'Silver Wraith', 'Safe House', 'Blindfold', 'Detonation', & 'Spectre( End credits)'. If Newman was even allowed to reprise these tracks entirely throughout the score in different musical styles....without repeating anything from SF, it would have really helped the score & Newman's reputation as a Bond Composer...even if Newman doesn't like weaving title songs into his score. I was even liking 'Backfire' until it turned into ' Grand Bazaar, Istanbul' from SF.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,366
    I dunno: it’s a sequel- I don’t mind it reprising the first. I mentioned Zimmer’s Sherlock Holmes above, and Game of Shadows wasn’t exactly a whole new musical landscape. A lot of folks here want to hear the same old themes and cues again (like the 007 theme) but if the composer actually does that then that’s a bad thing too! Someone somewhere is always going to complain
    :)
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    mtm wrote: »
    I dunno: it’s a sequel- I don’t mind it reprising the first. I mentioned Zimmer’s Sherlock Holmes above, and Game of Shadows wasn’t exactly a whole new musical landscape. A lot of folks here want to hear the same old themes and cues again (like the 007 theme) but if the composer actually does that then that’s a bad thing too! Someone somewhere is always going to complain
    :)

    Yeah, true...although, in Game of shadows...even if Zimmer reprised some themes from the first installment, he created a whole lot of new themes. Holmes & Watson had alternative themes. Moriarty also had his theme. I mean Blofeld doesn't even have a theme in SP. Instead his theme is the track 'Skyfall' from SF. Not that Silva had a theme in SF...but one can forgive that, Coz SF's score was unique.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I'm all for getting rid of Romer. Just find it hard to believe unless EON confirm it.
  • Posts: 11,425
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Newman took a very avant-garde approach in SF & it worked....coz he seemed to be playing around Monty Norman's Bond theme & occasionally doffed his hat to Barry, which is very evident in the track 'Severine'. The problem was always SP's score. Although, it had it's own good tracks like 'Los Muertos Vivos Estan', 'Donna Lucia' , 'Crows Klinik', 'Madeleine', 'L' Americain', 'Secret Room', 'Silver Wraith', 'Safe House', 'Blindfold', 'Detonation', & 'Spectre( End credits)'. If Newman was even allowed to reprise these tracks entirely throughout the score in different musical styles....without repeating anything from SF, it would have really helped the score & Newman's reputation as a Bond Composer...even if Newman doesn't like weaving title songs into his score. I was even liking 'Backfire' until it turned into ' Grand Bazaar, Istanbul' from SF.

    Geez. Avant garde? Are you serious?
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    Getafix wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Newman took a very avant-garde approach in SF & it worked....coz he seemed to be playing around Monty Norman's Bond theme & occasionally doffed his hat to Barry, which is very evident in the track 'Severine'. The problem was always SP's score. Although, it had it's own good tracks like 'Los Muertos Vivos Estan', 'Donna Lucia' , 'Crows Klinik', 'Madeleine', 'L' Americain', 'Secret Room', 'Silver Wraith', 'Safe House', 'Blindfold', 'Detonation', & 'Spectre( End credits)'. If Newman was even allowed to reprise these tracks entirely throughout the score in different musical styles....without repeating anything from SF, it would have really helped the score & Newman's reputation as a Bond Composer...even if Newman doesn't like weaving title songs into his score. I was even liking 'Backfire' until it turned into ' Grand Bazaar, Istanbul' from SF.

    Geez. Avant garde? Are you serious?

    Yeah, for a Bond Score. Let's be honest.by Default, I don't think we could ever imagine tracks like 'Voluntary Retirement', 'New Digs', 'Brave New World', 'Shanghai Drive',etc. In truth these tracks were experimental, but somehow it worked in the film & Score. Romer attended the Skyfall Concert & already he's an eclectic sort of composer. If he's really out, I think he also tried to experiment with the score....but it didn't work. It's the same Avant-Garde approach Eric Serra used for GE's Score, but got panned for it. But like SF's Score, I like Serra's GE's Score....even if it's not universally loved.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Getafix wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Newman took a very avant-garde approach in SF & it worked....coz he seemed to be playing around Monty Norman's Bond theme & occasionally doffed his hat to Barry, which is very evident in the track 'Severine'. The problem was always SP's score. Although, it had it's own good tracks like 'Los Muertos Vivos Estan', 'Donna Lucia' , 'Crows Klinik', 'Madeleine', 'L' Americain', 'Secret Room', 'Silver Wraith', 'Safe House', 'Blindfold', 'Detonation', & 'Spectre( End credits)'. If Newman was even allowed to reprise these tracks entirely throughout the score in different musical styles....without repeating anything from SF, it would have really helped the score & Newman's reputation as a Bond Composer...even if Newman doesn't like weaving title songs into his score. I was even liking 'Backfire' until it turned into ' Grand Bazaar, Istanbul' from SF.

    Geez. Avant garde? Are you serious?

    Avante Garde gets thrown around a lot.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    Serra was pure avant garde and it was BEAUTIFUL.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    I don't even know what Avant garde means.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    It's a Frenchified term meaning something like "not like the usual crap" "surprisingly different from what has come before" or "not your grandad's Bond music" . ;)
    I hope there is a thread just on Skyfall music because I'd like to get in on this at some point. It is the only thing I found entirely mediocre; SF and SP's music. Skyfall still one of my favorite Bond films, but not the score.

    I do think it will be Romer out and someone from Zimmer's crew in charge, with Zimmer having a hand in. We may as well take bets on that at this point. The film deserves to have the composer announced/confirmed, but I don't know how long that will take. Sooner is better, but they have their own agenda; not fans'.
  • Posts: 82
    Haven’t read the whole thread. On the subject of film composers having lots of ‘helpers’ - see the News story on Zimmer - was this the case with John Barry? I doubt it’s possible to tell just from the credits but I think not. From the link to the Dunkirk soundtrack credits I see some chap called Edward Elgar gets a credit for the theme. Striking name, wonder whatever happened to him...
  • Oh boy, avant-garde is something that is unorthidox or seemingly unstructured to the normal ear. Something like free jazz is avant garde...Newman's soundtracks come nowhere radical enough.

    That said, I think what is meant by it is Newman's soundtracks represent a departure from what was typical for Bond music. He brought a significantly more modern flair (for better and worse IMO) introducing a more heavy-weighted vibe to the score and relying more heavily on the tonal elements that serve individual moments rather than melodies that dominate the scene. (That's not to say there isn't good melodies in his Bond scores.)

    At first I didn't like it myself, but I've gotten over it. There are great works that I really find imaginative and memorable. The thing is at the end of the day, SF feels like a copy cat maneuver of TDK and SP is a copy of SF. Nothing that groundbreaking really.

    Since it was brought up, Goldeneye brought in some very unique sounds that while grating to some, really tie in the Russian storyline like no other. That's probably as close to experimental as Bond has ever gotten (or probably will get). What I like about that score is it's unique and consistent. You hear the industrial echoes all throught the film and it really gives the score and the film some flavor.

    Probably more than anything, that is what I want in a score...some solid character, something that makes it unique while still being Bond. I've come to realize Barry's strength was using only a few but strong, memorable melodies, weaving them throughout the score, and giving them flair based on the location (usually through instrumentation). Most times, you got a sense of the location through the music. Sometimes characters even got a theme that was repeated throughout the score.

    The theme song was also woven in, giving it true meaning as a theme song rather than being an isolated pop artist alternate music video that just happened to be tacked on to the film for sake of tradition (and bringing in a targeted audience).

    Lastly many of the Bond soundtracks have their own feature that makes them recognizable: GF is brassy, TB is harp and vibraphone heavy (watery sounds), YOLT is orient, OHMSS has the synth but also is incredibly atmospheric, DAF is slick and saxy, LALD is funk n' soul, MR does such a good job representing space (notice the vocals added to the atmospheric gravitas), TLD brings in the 80s drum machine, GE is industrial, DAD is techno...

    It just seems like the days of composers like Barry or John Williams are now behind us. You just don't get those qualities to scores anymore and I really believe scores suffer, becoming awfully generic. It just feels like composers today are just mimicking the Zimmer machine and writing as they go without trying to make the score feel cohesive.

    Sorry, this turned into a longwinded rant on modern scores. Rant over...for now.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    A score being in Avant-Garde mode, doesn't necessarily mean it will be groundbreaking. Some work & some don't . It worked best in GE. And SF's score was Cool was well. It's SP that ruined Newman's earlier work. Maybe if Newman had Scored one like Serra, it would have helped him better & in retrospect SF's score would have been more appreciated. And if it's true, it's possible Romer was relieved of his Duty coz he approached the score in an Avant-Garde way that wasn't setting the pace.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I wouldn't put TN's SF score up with Barry's best but I found a new appreciation for it seeing it played live and noticing how much it suits the film.

    Whereas I see the comparisons with Nolan's Bat films to just call them lazy retreads is just lazy criticism of the film by its detractors.

    There's no doubt that plot points have inspired the film from the TDK trilogy but in my eyes it is still a Bond film and a bloody good one to boot and Nolan takes Bond moments and steals them so it is tit for tat in my book.

    LALD is informed by the blaxploitation era, MWTGG the martial arts films of the time. This idea that Bond was wholly original previous to the DC era is a myth and it is only the 60's films that were leading the pack with something entirely new.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,366
    And even then, when you watch something like North by Northwest you can see the Bonds didn’t exactly come out of nowhere! :)
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    mtm wrote: »
    And even then, when you watch something like North by Northwest you can see the Bonds didn’t exactly come out of nowhere! :)

    I love North By Northwest. Can't forget the iconic Crop Duster scene....which inspired the Helicopter Chase in FRWL. The film's pace is spot on. Bernard Herrmann's score is stellar. Must be the film that made Cubby & Saltzman think Cary Grant should be their Bond....without them even thinking about Grant's age.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,583
    When Newman came into his own, in the late 80s/early 90s, he was doing some things differently. His work on The Player is a perfect example. Hans Zimmer was coming into his own at the time, too, and they were very different composers back then. I would make a case that Newman influenced Zimmer a lot more than the other way around.

    I don't know if Newman's work is "avant-garde" but I can see a case being made that his SF score could be described as such. Newman worked with greater "textures" or "colors" than had been done before.

    On a separate note, Hans Zimmwer is listed as Exec Music Producer on The Rhythm Section, while Steve Mazzaro is still credited as composer. I am wondering if that will be the setup for NTTD.

    I recently stumbled across this, which I am sure was posted somewhere years ago. Newman uses that term "color: here, and I think that was what he brought to SF:

  • Posts: 11,425
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    And even then, when you watch something like North by Northwest you can see the Bonds didn’t exactly come out of nowhere! :)

    I love North By Northwest. Can't forget the iconic Crop Duster scene....which inspired the Helicopter Chase in FRWL. The film's pace is spot on. Bernard Herrmann's score is stellar. Must be the film that made Cubby & Saltzman think Cary Grant should be their Bond....without them even thinking about Grant's age.

    Also weren't Cubby and Cary Grant good friends? Have a feeling Cary was best man at Cubby's wedding.
  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    Getafix wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    And even then, when you watch something like North by Northwest you can see the Bonds didn’t exactly come out of nowhere! :)

    I love North By Northwest. Can't forget the iconic Crop Duster scene....which inspired the Helicopter Chase in FRWL. The film's pace is spot on. Bernard Herrmann's score is stellar. Must be the film that made Cubby & Saltzman think Cary Grant should be their Bond....without them even thinking about Grant's age.

    Also weren't Cubby and Cary Grant good friends? Have a feeling Cary was best man at Cubby's wedding.

    Right.

    cubby-broccoli-las-vegas-usa-shutterstock-editorial-6625130a.jpg
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    Getafix wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    And even then, when you watch something like North by Northwest you can see the Bonds didn’t exactly come out of nowhere! :)

    I love North By Northwest. Can't forget the iconic Crop Duster scene....which inspired the Helicopter Chase in FRWL. The film's pace is spot on. Bernard Herrmann's score is stellar. Must be the film that made Cubby & Saltzman think Cary Grant should be their Bond....without them even thinking about Grant's age.

    Also weren't Cubby and Cary Grant good friends? Have a feeling Cary was best man at Cubby's wedding.

    Correct on both accounts.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,583
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    And even then, when you watch something like North by Northwest you can see the Bonds didn’t exactly come out of nowhere! :)

    I love North By Northwest. Can't forget the iconic Crop Duster scene....which inspired the Helicopter Chase in FRWL. The film's pace is spot on. Bernard Herrmann's score is stellar. Must be the film that made Cubby & Saltzman think Cary Grant should be their Bond....without them even thinking about Grant's age.

    Also weren't Cubby and Cary Grant good friends? Have a feeling Cary was best man at Cubby's wedding.

    Correct on both accounts.

    Had Bond been first produced a decade earlier, one has to think that Grant would have had first crack a being 007.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    Getafix wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    And even then, when you watch something like North by Northwest you can see the Bonds didn’t exactly come out of nowhere! :)

    I love North By Northwest. Can't forget the iconic Crop Duster scene....which inspired the Helicopter Chase in FRWL. The film's pace is spot on. Bernard Herrmann's score is stellar. Must be the film that made Cubby & Saltzman think Cary Grant should be their Bond....without them even thinking about Grant's age.

    Also weren't Cubby and Cary Grant good friends? Have a feeling Cary was best man at Cubby's wedding.

    Exactly....I think it didn't work out Coz Grant was 58 at the time and could only commit to one film. And Cubby wanted an actor who would commit fully to the role. But since this thread is about Film music, I would have loved to hear a Bernard Herrmann's Bond Score. His scores for 'North By Northwest', 'Jason & the Argonauts', 'The 7th Voyage of Sinbad', amongst others helped define film music.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Shouldn't there be a thread of old movie soundtracks? I'd love to read that. Seriously, is there anything like that? Give me the link. If not, somebody please start one.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    Shouldn't there be a thread of old movie soundtracks? I'd love to read that. Seriously, is there anything like that? Give me the link. If not, somebody please start one.

    You mean Bond soundtracks or movie music in general? In the latter case, @4EverBonded, please feel free to set a thread up for that. :)
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