NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    Maybe Mendes would have allowed Arnold write the action parts, with Newman focusing on the romantic, lighter & emotive moments....not that Arnold can't write romantic pieces. A bit like how Zimmer suggested to Nolan that he wants James Newton Howard to join him score Batman Begins. And look how that score and The Dark knight's score was Epic. The Dark knight rises' score was good as well....but somehow one could feel Howard's absence.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Maybe Mendes would have allowed Arnold write the action parts, with Newman focusing on the romantic, lighter & emotive moments....not that Arnold can't write romantic pieces. A bit like how Zimmer suggested to Nolan that he wants James Newton Howard to join him score Batman Begins. And look how that score and The Dark knight's score was Epic. The Dark knight rises' score was good as well....but somehow one could feel Howard's absence.

    A collaboration between composers would be cool.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Maybe Mendes would have allowed Arnold write the action parts, with Newman focusing on the romantic, lighter & emotive moments....not that Arnold can't write romantic pieces. A bit like how Zimmer suggested to Nolan that he wants James Newton Howard to join him score Batman Begins. And look how that score and The Dark knight's score was Epic. The Dark knight rises' score was good as well....but somehow one could feel Howard's absence.

    A collaboration between composers would be cool.

    Yeah, am really hoping for that someday (if possible in NTTD). and that would be a first in the World of Bond Scores...and hopefully better than the first Duet we got.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 1,261
    jake24 wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    You guys are gonna need a truckload of salt for this one BUT.

    There's some smoke that someone based with Remote Control Productions - if not Hans Zimmer himself - will be replacing Romer.
    That would be insane.

    Hanz Himmler drove me nuts with his score for TDKR and Dunkirk, but I love his Gladiator score. He is versatile.

    HANZ HIMMLER????

    And do we know for sure, that Romer is not doing the NTTD score? Not just speculation or wishful thinking?
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Walecs wrote: »
    I can't stand Zimmer but for a couple scores. If not Romer, then I hope it'll be someone else.

    +1. Hopefully the guy who scored QoS will be asked to return.

    giphy.gif

    I think he kind of said, he won't do the NTTD score.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 17,753
    Walecs wrote: »
    I can't stand Zimmer but for a couple scores. If not Romer, then I hope it'll be someone else.

    +1. Hopefully the guy who scored QoS will be asked to return.

    giphy.gif

    I think he kind of said, he won't do the NTTD score.

    As long as nothing is confirmed from EON, I'm living in the hope that he will! I just can't stomach another score sounding like the Newman scores. I've tried to like them since the release, listening to them multiple times. But I just don't like them. I fear Zimmer and/or his crew's effort might feel the same.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,583
    Wow. Nothing dominates these boards like a good ol' Arnold-Newman debate. I am not sure this has to be an either/or. I liked Arnold's work on CR and QoS. I loved Newman's work on SF and SP. I am not sure we Bond fans have to choose in a way that is exclusive.

    Though I prefer Newman's work in SF and SO, this does not mean I think Arnold's work stunk. Not at all.

    As for action pieces: I find most action music to be difficult listening. It is meant to coincide with and enhance what is on screen. I don't usually find it pleasurable on its own. Bernard Hermann's score for Psycho is a perfect example. The screeching violins are perfect for that shower scene; they are not perfect for my home, when I am cooking, or in my car, when I am taking a drive through the mountains. LOL.

    My Arnold and Newman compilations mostly have the action bits taken out. My main complaint about Arnold's work is that some of his very best stuff is only seconds long.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    TripAces wrote: »
    Wow. Nothing dominates these boards like a good ol' Arnold-Newman debate. I am not sure this has to be an either/or. I liked Arnold's work on CR and QoS. I loved Newman's work on SF and SP. I am not sure we Bond fans have to choose in a way that is exclusive.

    I can agree with that. Loved both Newman scores , but also Arnold s scores for TND, DAD and QOS.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    Walecs wrote: »
    I can't stand Zimmer but for a couple scores. If not Romer, then I hope it'll be someone else.

    +1. Hopefully the guy who scored QoS will be asked to return.

    giphy.gif

    I think he kind of said, he won't do the NTTD score.

    As long as nothing is confirmed from EON, I'm living in the hope that he will! I just can't stomach another score sounding like the Newman scores. I've tried to like them since the release, listening to them multiple times. But I just don't like them. I fear Zimmer and/or his crew's effort might feel the same.

    Yeah, I think the Bond theme itself really favours Zimmer's style, coz it gives Zimmer extra excuse to be more Bombastic....just like how Terminator favoured Junkie XL. Zimmer's very likely going to play with the Bond theme than Newman. Coz Zimmer's score for Inception has a Bondian feel about it. I think if Zimmer scores it, it's likely going to sound like that. And I don't think Newman's style is that Distant from Romer...Coz they are both comfortable with atmospheric sounds & seem to struggle with action music.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    TripAces wrote: »
    Wow. Nothing dominates these boards like a good ol' Arnold-Newman debate. I am not sure this has to be an either/or. I liked Arnold's work on CR and QoS. I loved Newman's work on SF and SP. I am not sure we Bond fans have to choose in a way that is exclusive.

    Though I prefer Newman's work in SF and SO, this does not mean I think Arnold's work stunk. Not at all.

    As for action pieces: I find most action music to be difficult listening. It is meant to coincide with and enhance what is on screen. I don't usually find it pleasurable on its own. Bernard Hermann's score for Psycho is a perfect example. The screeching violins are perfect for that shower scene; they are not perfect for my home, when I am cooking, or in my car, when I am taking a drive through the mountains. LOL.

    My Arnold and Newman compilations mostly have the action bits taken out. My main complaint about Arnold's work is that some of his very best stuff is only seconds long.

    They both have their strengths and weaknesses for sure. Fair comments.

    Though I love a good action cue, myself. There just hasn't been too many good ones in the last ten years or so, unfortunately.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    As much as I like a lot of what Arnold brings to CR when he uses something more welcome in an Austin Powers film in the sky plane sequence this is when I have question his abilities.

    That being said I think his QOS score is a great improvement and he seemed to produce his most consistent score without having the Bond theme blatantly blaring every 15 minutes.

    I think in CR and QOS he managed to use it subtlety but on QOS his score was much more interesting and diverse.

    Though listening to Newman's score in the In Concert presentation Sunday night I noticed how much more sophisticated he is as a composer and he has the Bond theme playing throughout his score.

    I didn't mind his action scoring, granted he excels with the romantic cues and the quieter moments but I feel he gives Bond a new sound that while I didn't appreciate previously, this concert really made me change my view on his contribution.

    I hate SP but I know the score issues aren't down to him but the editor and directors choices.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,366
    TripAces wrote: »
    Wow. Nothing dominates these boards like a good ol' Arnold-Newman debate. I am not sure this has to be an either/or. I liked Arnold's work on CR and QoS. I loved Newman's work on SF and SP. I am not sure we Bond fans have to choose in a way that is exclusive.

    Though I prefer Newman's work in SF and SO, this does not mean I think Arnold's work stunk. Not at all.

    As for action pieces: I find most action music to be difficult listening. It is meant to coincide with and enhance what is on screen. I don't usually find it pleasurable on its own. Bernard Hermann's score for Psycho is a perfect example. The screeching violins are perfect for that shower scene; they are not perfect for my home, when I am cooking, or in my car, when I am taking a drive through the mountains. LOL.

    My Arnold and Newman compilations mostly have the action bits taken out. My main complaint about Arnold's work is that some of his very best stuff is only seconds long.

    Barry’s action cues were often much more pleasurable as he simply played a tune during them! Much nicer :)
    I do still sort of wonder why Arnold didn’t just do an orchestral version of You Know My Name during the runway chase rather than all the Mickey Mousing. I wonder how that would have turned out.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 1,859
    After listening to the comments above all I can say is that I am glad I have the pleasure of kicking back and listening to first 6 Bond scores by Barry. To each their own, fortunately. Now, IS Romer off the project?
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    mtm wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Wow. Nothing dominates these boards like a good ol' Arnold-Newman debate. I am not sure this has to be an either/or. I liked Arnold's work on CR and QoS. I loved Newman's work on SF and SP. I am not sure we Bond fans have to choose in a way that is exclusive.

    Though I prefer Newman's work in SF and SO, this does not mean I think Arnold's work stunk. Not at all.

    As for action pieces: I find most action music to be difficult listening. It is meant to coincide with and enhance what is on screen. I don't usually find it pleasurable on its own. Bernard Hermann's score for Psycho is a perfect example. The screeching violins are perfect for that shower scene; they are not perfect for my home, when I am cooking, or in my car, when I am taking a drive through the mountains. LOL.

    My Arnold and Newman compilations mostly have the action bits taken out. My main complaint about Arnold's work is that some of his very best stuff is only seconds long.

    Barry’s action cues were often much more pleasurable as he simply played a tune during them! Much nicer :)
    I do still sort of wonder why Arnold didn’t just do an orchestral version of You Know My Name during the runway chase rather than all the Mickey Mousing. I wonder how that would have turned out.

    Yeah, at least Arnold had YKMN played here & there. I think if Newman thoroughly weaved the title songs into his score, it might have helped him more. Just imagine if Adele's 'Skyfall' & Smith's 'Writing on the wall' featured heavily in his scores. And one thing Arnold did so well was, whenever he missed out on working with a Singer, he comes up with an exciting theme/themes which he uses throughout the film to replace the title song. Very good examples are in QoS when he uses 'No Good About Goodbye' which he did with Shirley Bassey & 'Surrender' which he did with K.D lang for TND. Also in DAD he uses the 'Jinx & James' track a lot.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    delfloria wrote: »
    After listening to the comments above all I can say is that I am glad I have the pleasure of kicking back and listening to first 6 Bond scores by Barry. To each their own, fortunately. Now, IS Romer off the project?

    Nothing is confirmed yet.
  • Posts: 4,044
    Nothing beats Escape From Piz Gloria as Bond action music for me.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,515
    David Arnold vs Newman moost lissen Bond soundtracks

    1. The World Is Not Enough. Always be my 3th/4th favorite Bond score.
    2. Die Another Day
    3. Tomorrow Never Dies
    4. QOS
    5. Skyfall
    6. Casino Royale
    7. Spectre

    Twine always be my 3th/4th favorite Bond score for long time. Till time and QOS deside difrent.
    Inspecialy now i am tired about over re-used boat chase/bank theme for end credits in later movies. QOS whas nice update from David Arnold exept that it have some DAD techno left overs, DAD left overs something that also be bit of problem of score of Casino Royale. Possible also why have more problems with tracks with to much twine dad drama. Always a thing of him like Hans Zimmer and Newman with dark cues. He also repeat his twine score to much with Narnia 3. QOS was also inprovement because there are moments of no music or slow music or typical sound effect like asian triangle who sound like John Barry and Lu Lu TMWTGG. Newman very good track is spectre meeting with the silence, a bit of wishdom/knowledge of course. And scenes with Mr White. Spectre have some very good tracks whyle best one from beginging is alternate version on the disc and faild when second part with repeating hulk smash train music from SF.
  • DrClatterhandDrClatterhand United Kingdom
    Posts: 349
    I sincerely hope it's Zimmer. He's a level above anyone other than Barry. I think EoN know they have something very special up their sleeve.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited January 2020 Posts: 16,351
    I'd like it if Elliot Goldenthal took the reigns. He has a great sound that would work for Bond.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Murdock wrote: »
    I'd like it if Elliot Goldenthal took the reigns. He has a great sound that would work for Bond.

    Love me some Elliot.
  • Posts: 11,425
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Wow. Nothing dominates these boards like a good ol' Arnold-Newman debate. I am not sure this has to be an either/or. I liked Arnold's work on CR and QoS. I loved Newman's work on SF and SP. I am not sure we Bond fans have to choose in a way that is exclusive.

    Though I prefer Newman's work in SF and SO, this does not mean I think Arnold's work stunk. Not at all.

    As for action pieces: I find most action music to be difficult listening. It is meant to coincide with and enhance what is on screen. I don't usually find it pleasurable on its own. Bernard Hermann's score for Psycho is a perfect example. The screeching violins are perfect for that shower scene; they are not perfect for my home, when I am cooking, or in my car, when I am taking a drive through the mountains. LOL.

    My Arnold and Newman compilations mostly have the action bits taken out. My main complaint about Arnold's work is that some of his very best stuff is only seconds long.

    Barry’s action cues were often much more pleasurable as he simply played a tune during them! Much nicer :)
    I do still sort of wonder why Arnold didn’t just do an orchestral version of You Know My Name during the runway chase rather than all the Mickey Mousing. I wonder how that would have turned out.

    Yeah, at least Arnold had YKMN played here & there. I think if Newman thoroughly weaved the title songs into his score, it might have helped him more. Just imagine if Adele's 'Skyfall' & Smith's 'Writing on the wall' featured heavily in his scores. And one thing Arnold did so well was, whenever he missed out on working with a Singer, he comes up with an exciting theme/themes which he uses throughout the film to replace the title song. Very good examples are in QoS when he uses 'No Good About Goodbye' which he did with Shirley Bassey & 'Surrender' which he did with K.D lang for TND. Also in DAD he uses the 'Jinx & James' track a lot.

    Arnold is a middling composer overall but a much Bond composer than Arnold.
  • Posts: 3,327
    TripAces wrote: »
    My main complaint about Arnold's work is that some of his very best stuff is only seconds long.

    Hit nail right on head there. I find this too with Arnold. Tracks like Aston Montenegro and Talamone sound superb, yet are very short. Likewise, the last part of Blunt Instrument is superb (when Bond drives his Mondeo), yet again only lasts a few seconds.

    What Arnold should have done is create longer pieces like Night at the Opera, and repeat them where fitting. This is something Barry did expertly. Many of his tracks were lengthy and repeated several times throughout a movie (Inflight Fight, Ice Chase, etc.), so by the end of the film they become familiar to the viewer.

    Arnold tends to do one quick track, then discards it. He may occasionally revisit it again in a slightly different style later on in the film, which I think is a mistake.

  • Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Wow. Nothing dominates these boards like a good ol' Arnold-Newman debate. I am not sure this has to be an either/or. I liked Arnold's work on CR and QoS. I loved Newman's work on SF and SP. I am not sure we Bond fans have to choose in a way that is exclusive.

    Though I prefer Newman's work in SF and SO, this does not mean I think Arnold's work stunk. Not at all.

    As for action pieces: I find most action music to be difficult listening. It is meant to coincide with and enhance what is on screen. I don't usually find it pleasurable on its own. Bernard Hermann's score for Psycho is a perfect example. The screeching violins are perfect for that shower scene; they are not perfect for my home, when I am cooking, or in my car, when I am taking a drive through the mountains. LOL.

    My Arnold and Newman compilations mostly have the action bits taken out. My main complaint about Arnold's work is that some of his very best stuff is only seconds long.

    Barry’s action cues were often much more pleasurable as he simply played a tune during them! Much nicer :)
    I do still sort of wonder why Arnold didn’t just do an orchestral version of You Know My Name during the runway chase rather than all the Mickey Mousing. I wonder how that would have turned out.

    That would have been far better, like Barry did with tracks like Ice Chase, Snow Job, Cable Car, etc.

    And then repeat the track on other action set pieces too, so we become familiar with the music. I felt Arnold tried to do too much at times. Simplicity works much nicer.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    TripAces wrote: »
    My main complaint about Arnold's work is that some of his very best stuff is only seconds long.

    Hit nail right on head there. I find this too with Arnold. Tracks like Aston Montenegro and Talamone sound superb, yet are very short. Likewise, the last part of Blunt Instrument is superb (when Bond drives his Mondeo), yet again only lasts a few seconds.

    What Arnold should have done is create longer pieces like Night at the Opera, and repeat them where fitting. This is something Barry did expertly. Many of his tracks were lengthy and repeated several times throughout a movie (Inflight Fight, Ice Chase, etc.), so by the end of the film they become familiar to the viewer.

    Arnold tends to do one quick track, then discards it. He may occasionally revisit it again in a slightly different style later on in the film, which I think is a mistake.

    Don't forget film scores are there to compliment the images. They're not designed to be listened to without the film. Happily some scores work with the film and on their own, especially Bond scores, but they're not written with this in mind.

    The score for Blade Runner 2049 works beautifully with the film, but divorced from it i found it a monotonous dirge. It's still a good score because it does what a film score is supposed to do and compliment the imagery.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    The genius of Barry was that he would take a theme and play it in many different ways so that it always felt fresh and yet ever present. There’s many variations of “We Have All The Time in The World” to fit different moods of scenes. Arnold just never expanded on a theme to such an extent, except in QOS where he brought back Vesper’s theme but played it in a way that felt haunting as if her ghost was tormenting Bond.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    The genius of Barry was that he would take a theme and play it in many different ways so that it always felt fresh and yet ever present. There’s many variations of “We Have All The Time in The World” to fit different moods of scenes. Arnold just never expanded on a theme to such an extent, except in QOS where he brought back Vesper’s theme but played it in a way that felt haunting as if her ghost was tormenting Bond.

    QOS is Arnold's best score, till that I hadn't really been that bothered about his input, I like most of CR's although that stuff around the airport sequence is atrocious.

    I warmed to his score for CR but that moment even as much as I love the film still makes me cringe and wondered if Arnold thought he was scoring some spoof rather than a full blooded Bond film.

    I think I originally wanted DA back for NTTD based on his QOS score, though I think I'm more open to see what someone new would do, most intrigued to see what will come of the RCP news.

    I think it is clear that Romer is gone, someone posted a while back that he had been attached to another project and they listed his previous work and Bond wasn't mentioned.

    This is very telling and if Romer was attached then a press release for his next project doesn't mention the most high profile assignment of his career so far, I think that says it all, Romer is gone.

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited January 2020 Posts: 8,216
    If Mission Impossible: Fallout wasn't enough of an indication of how Lorne Balfe can successfully use established series' motifs in an effective way, he just released a snippet of his score for BAD BOYS FOR LIFE in which his orchestra performs an updated version of Mark Mancina's Main Title music for the first film.

    Granted, it's not quite as iconic or instantly recognisable as either Bond or MI, but Mancina's theme was sorely missed in the second film and I'm glad Balfe is bringing it back.

    If his name is in the hat for NTTD, I'm game for him getting the job.

  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    If Mission Impossible: Fallout wasn't enough of an indication of how Lorne Balfe can successfully use established series' motifs in an effective way, he just released a snippet of his score for BAD BOYS FOR LIFE in which his orchestra performs an updated version of Mark Mancina's Main Title music for the first film.

    Granted, it's not quite as iconic or instantly recognisable as either Bond or MI, but Mancina's theme was sorely missed in the second film and I'm glad Balfe is bringing it back.

    If his name is in the hat for NTTD, I'm game for him getting the job.


    Yeah, true....Trevor Rabin's score for Bad Boys 2 wasn't as strong as Mark Mancina's Score. And Strangely enough, Rabin is an RCP Composer but threw away all of Mancina's Cues. Mancina seemed to have built his score around tracks like 'Prologue-Car Jacking' & 'Bad boys-Main title/Heist'. It's Good to know Balfe is offering some continuity from Mancina's work & Yes, Balfe would be right for Bond. And apart from Fallout, his 'The Lego Batman Movie' Score sounds like a Spy movie too.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2020 Posts: 16,366
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Wow. Nothing dominates these boards like a good ol' Arnold-Newman debate. I am not sure this has to be an either/or. I liked Arnold's work on CR and QoS. I loved Newman's work on SF and SP. I am not sure we Bond fans have to choose in a way that is exclusive.

    Though I prefer Newman's work in SF and SO, this does not mean I think Arnold's work stunk. Not at all.

    As for action pieces: I find most action music to be difficult listening. It is meant to coincide with and enhance what is on screen. I don't usually find it pleasurable on its own. Bernard Hermann's score for Psycho is a perfect example. The screeching violins are perfect for that shower scene; they are not perfect for my home, when I am cooking, or in my car, when I am taking a drive through the mountains. LOL.

    My Arnold and Newman compilations mostly have the action bits taken out. My main complaint about Arnold's work is that some of his very best stuff is only seconds long.

    Barry’s action cues were often much more pleasurable as he simply played a tune during them! Much nicer :)
    I do still sort of wonder why Arnold didn’t just do an orchestral version of You Know My Name during the runway chase rather than all the Mickey Mousing. I wonder how that would have turned out.

    Yeah, at least Arnold had YKMN played here & there. I think if Newman thoroughly weaved the title songs into his score, it might have helped him more. Just imagine if Adele's 'Skyfall' & Smith's 'Writing on the wall' featured heavily in his scores. And one thing Arnold did so well was, whenever he missed out on working with a Singer, he comes up with an exciting theme/themes which he uses throughout the film to replace the title song. Very good examples are in QoS when he uses 'No Good About Goodbye' which he did with Shirley Bassey & 'Surrender' which he did with K.D lang for TND. Also in DAD he uses the 'Jinx & James' track a lot.

    Well he doesn’t really use No Good About Goodbye because he hadn’t written it yet(!): it’s just a motif. He used the actual final film song in a few places too. In DAD the tune you might be thinking of is ‘I Will Return’: a song he composed for the film but we never got to hear. You hear it most notably during ‘Peaceful Mountains of Desire’ (or whatever that track’s called!) and Bond’s escape from the Ice Palace via the cable thing.
    I don’t think weaving the song through is essential, although I do like it when it works well.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    @mtm Yeah, true....'Peaceful Fountains of Desire' & 'A Touch Of Frost' might be the instrumental versions of 'I Will Return'. I know David Arnold & Don Black were working on 'I Will Return' but never got to finish it. I think Arnold said the song might appear in a future Bond film. Although he did say elements of the song would appear in DAD's Score. But am thinking 'I Will Return' was never truly finished....at least we should have heard it in DAD's End credits. Instead we got a remix of Madonna's Song.
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