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I don't think it's as cut and dry as that, personally (these things rarely are) but I really don't wish to get into another debate about it. We've got number of composers working on NTTD now. We'll see how it goes.
http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=fanlatest_comments
[In respect to why Zimmer isn't scoring Tenet] Because as I said, Tenet was never about scheduling conflict...
And Hans definitely didn't start Bond just now, but more like more than a month ago. And about being "busy", WW84 & Top Gun are finished or about to be.
So, why did he not take on "Tenet"? Was it because of the rough time had on "Dunkirk"?
If I am not completely mistaken, he did incorporate Lalo Schifrin's "M:I" theme in his score of, well, "M:I 2".
Yes, he did. He used Schifrin's M:I theme quite a bit in M:I 2. I'm not necessarily the world's biggest Hans Zimmer fan (his music all seems a bit same-y to me) but his score for M:I 2 is one of the few highlights of a dreadful film, and it gives me hope that his take on Bond will have some verve and kick to it.
I hope you're right. At this point, it looks to me they've moved on.
Are there any notable examples of this?
Indeed...he did. He used it sparingly throughout the first half of the film. But used it fully during the Bike chase.
As for Thomas Newman's work on the last two, whilst I can see what his detractors mean but, somehow or other, the dark and even bleak tone in portions of Skyfall and SPECTRE have been forever anchored in my mind by TN's score. The London aerial shot in SPECTRE when things are at their worst with "C" and his abolition of the 00 Section, for instance. That's a key moment. Just a phrase or two but it sets the mood at that point in the film.
It's been a long time since we had anything in the class of John Barry but one can't dwell in the past. And David Arnold, despite my initially finding his scores a bit cluttered with unnecessary layers of percussion, did produce some sterling, and underrated, themes.
So, I'm hopeful that this new film will be a real corker with a score that really stirs the blood.
But I'm very, very curious to see how he will approach Bond. Not because of any other scores he's done in the past. Because they're hit-and-miss for me. So I won't compare his previous music and say what I'd like.
No, I'm curious to see how it will sound because of the way Zimmer works. Because Zimmer is almost the anti-Newman.
Let me explain: Newman scores scene-by-scene. He looks at a film scene (or the dailies or maybe even the script when he starts early) and tries to come up with a sound that works well with what you see on screen, with melodies that work in the context of that scene. Skyfall is laced with this: the Istanbul scenes in the PTS work and gel with the music. The Shanghai score is more electronic based, but works to give the correct vibe when Bond arrives in a world of neon light. And the Tennyson scene with M reading and Bond running around London has some really emotional score, almost breathtaking.
And to me, that's why the same music doesn't work in Spectre: you can't lift those pieces of score written for these scenes and put them in a different context in another film. It doesn't work. Newman wrote new music for the Mexico scenes in the beginning (long take - rooftops) and when Bond drives through the Vatican, I get goosebumps again. Those choirs work. What doesn't work is the SF score during fight scenes.
Onto Zimmer: his method is different. He usually writes some themes or long suites (between 5 and 10 minutes) for different characters and entities. Then his team divides those themes into pieces of track for individual scenes. That's why some of Zimmer's individual score tracks sound like filler: because they are. If a theme or a motif doesn't work for a particular scene, they often write a very atmospheric, generic piece. So Zimmer's scores might not all sound great from track to track, but the themes and suites are memorable. And his team isn't afraid to lift themes from previous films in series that Zimmer didn't compose to fill the score if they don't have much time.
And that's why I'm excited: because we'll probably see and hear a score with themes. John Williams does it with Star Wars, and John Barry did it too. (think the Bond theme, the 007 theme, the numerous instrumental themes from the title songs woven into the score, the Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd theme, the OHMSS theme)
So what I'm hoping for is a film with a good main theme for the villain, the Bond theme used in a way that is appropriate (meaning: not just 3 bars in one scene, but the whole thing), and maybe even some reused themes from other composers.
Also: as Zimmer has been brought on at a later stadium than Newman was, might the title song be already done, in terms of melody? If that's the case, I think that the song might be used as a motif more than it was in the previous films, which I'd love.
Nice breakdown, @DeerAtTheGates
Well I know that Nolan wasn't 100% happy with the way Zimmer approached Dunkirk, perhaps because he's now more of a music industry deus ex machina. :D Not speaking about the final result. Plus, filmmakers taking a break with long time collaborators is a fact of life. Just think of Pfister, now changed with Hoytema as the current DoP of the last two Nolan films.
Very, but where do you have this from?
I think he's just referring to Zimmer and Marr having a history of performing together which, in theory, opens up the possibility of Marr contributing to the score.
Excellent post. If this is true, then I'll change my mind about Zimmer doing the score. Hopefully this means the title song will be woven into the score and some themes from previous movies (namely Vesper's and Madeleine's) will carry over.
I would be extremely surprised if this ends up being the case.
"Creative differences" implies to me, on first assumption that perhaps Romer's work wasn't deemed Bondian enough. Who knows? Perhaps Eon was avoiding Eric Serra Part II, or a Michel Legrand equivalent for the official series?
Zimmer is certainly a popular well in demand composer these days, and I'm excited for what he may come up with.
One can only dream. ;) What we know for sure it that the producers *demanded* that the Bond theme and at least one instance of the title song melody were featured in both SF and SP. I don't think this will change for NTTD. (In fact, that might be a factor in the sacking of Romer)
But just how much of both will be used, that's completely open.
As I explained, I think Zimmer's track record gives recurring themes a higher probability than if Romer stayed on, but it's just that: a probability, not a certainty. Just like if Arnold came back, you'd have a higher probability of hearing the Vesper theme because he wrote it and used it again in QoS.
@ToTheRight, I don't think you need to go back to Serra to find creative differences: the fact that Newman really didn't want to use the instrumental versions of SF and WOTW, but kinda was told by the producers he had to and then asked someone else to do it for him because he couldn't be bothered is a minor creative difference, IMO.
But Newman caved in to BB's and MGW's request. I suspect Romer didn't want to change his style and 'got the boot', so to speak.
His scores tend to veer from Superb, to average at best. I just hope he puts a little bit of the vintage Bond sound back in. I have sorely missed that in the last couple of films.
Correct!!
I meant in way of working, approaching a score, as my post explains. ;)
But in terms of musical styles and soundscape, they can be similar, sure.
Great post! This is exactly what we need for a Bond soundtrack - lots of themes, and not moody Newman atmos crap.
Now Zimmer, do the right thing and give us a modern day 007 theme too, and everyone will be doing cartwheels in the aisles.
If he did that I would be on cloud 9!
Giacchino, Kramer, and Balfe have done this in the M:I films with Schifrin’s “Plot theme” from the original series. Zimmer can do the same!!! Long overdue.
Really? Days of Thunder? True Romance? Interstellar?