NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I have Complete trust in Zimmer....even with the time he has to score the film. Newman started working on SP during filming....and look at the score we got.

    A good score!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Don't we have a thread on Newman vs. Arnold vs. EveryOtherComposerInTheWorld?
    We should. ;)
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    HASEROT wrote: »
    My Non Sense on the matter of Hans Zimmer being brought on board..


    I'm not aware on the subject of the title song artist that it has been revealed any sooner than a month or so before the film is released.

    There is a lot of speculation on it and Adele was very much a foregone conclusion but I'm pretty sure in this era that the title song artist has not been known officially 4 months before the film, so yes I will take umbrage on that comment.

    I'm pretty sure Smith may well have been speculated (although Radiohead had the gig first) but the official announcement was about a month or not much more before the film was released.

    Also Zimmer has been reported by reliable sources to have been working on this already before the announcement.

    I personally think and I might be wrong but Zimmer has been assigned much earlier than we think, the rumour of Romer being let go as been around for sometime.

    EON have kept their cards very close to their chest. For instance Waller Bridge was assigned to the script much sooner than it was announced.

    It is possible that Zimmer was given the call some time ago and asked to start putting something together but EON didn't want it public knowledge for a while.

    All this talk of things be haphazard are I think born from the fact that fanboys don't know these things so the speculate that the production is in a mess, when the truth is that EON have been very shrewd here, especially after the way SPECTRE was public knowledge months before the film came out.

    What might appear chaos is just EON wanting as much of this film under wraps as they can and if that upsets some that want it all laid out for them then so be it.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I have Complete trust in Zimmer....even with the time he has to score the film. Newman started working on SP during filming....and look at the score we got.

    A good score!

    Well, not entirely. If does have some good tracks...but in reality it's a continuation of SF's score. That helicopter fight needed a new good Bond track, so does the Car chase, and that moment where Bond uses his watch with the help of Madeleine to escape, so does the Boat & Helicopter chase & many other scenes.

    My main problem with SP's score is, most of it's action scenes has SF's tracks. Even if Mendes suggested re-using SF's tracks, I think Newman didn't really push to say NO....after all, it's his name that would appear on screen as Composer...not Mendes. So are we saying if Mendes told Arnold to re-use majority of his previous scores in the present film, Arnold would just do that without really telling Mendes why it won't work....It seems to me Newman didn't really care.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 1,220
    I heard Zimmer has been working on NTTD for a month. So probably at least a month. I'm not worried about him having enough time.

    I imagine it’s likely even longer if they’re already in recording sessions.
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    This was the same person who first reported te news that Hans Zimmer was connected to NTTD:
    http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=fanlatest_comments

    [In respect to why Zimmer isn't scoring Tenet] Because as I said, Tenet was never about scheduling conflict...

    And Hans definitely didn't start Bond just now, but more like more than a month ago. And about being "busy", WW84 & Top Gun are finished or about to be.

    I saw him live in Sydney at the end of last year, and while speaking about his upcoming projects, he mentioned he was next working on a big top secret gig due out next year and that it was something he'd dreamed of working on. He was practically giddy talking about it, even bouncing around on his piano stool. He seemed genuinely excited about it.

    I'd heard the Romer rumours, and was pretty certain he was referring to NTTD. It was the only other big 2020 release he wasn't attached to.

    If NTTD is the mystery project here then he’s likely been at it for a few months (and probably doing much of it himself if it is a dream project).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I have Complete trust in Zimmer....even with the time he has to score the film. Newman started working on SP during filming....and look at the score we got.

    A good score!

    Well, not entirely. If does have some good tracks...but in reality in a continuation of SF's score. That helicopter fight needed a new good Bond track, so does the Car chase, and that moment where Bond uses his watch with the help of Madeleine to escape, so does the Boat & Helicopter chase & many other scenes.

    My main problem with SP's score is, most of it's action scenes has SF's tracks. Even if Mendes suggested re-using SF's tracks, I think Newman didn't really push to say NO....after all, it's his name that would appear on screen as Composer...not Mendes. So are we saying if Mendes told Arnold to re-use majority of his previous scores in the present film, Arnold would just do that without really telling Mendes why it won't work....It seems to me Newman didn't really care.

    A lot of biased assumptions here.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 4,512
    If you mist it in the fun thread

    ha-ha-Zimmertime.png
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,043
    I heard Zimmer has been working on NTTD for a month. So probably at least a month. I'm not worried about him having enough time.

    I imagine it’s likely even longer if they’re already in recording sessions.
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    This was the same person who first reported te news that Hans Zimmer was connected to NTTD:
    http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=fanlatest_comments

    [In respect to why Zimmer isn't scoring Tenet] Because as I said, Tenet was never about scheduling conflict...

    And Hans definitely didn't start Bond just now, but more like more than a month ago. And about being "busy", WW84 & Top Gun are finished or about to be.

    I saw him live in Sydney at the end of last year, and while speaking about his upcoming projects, he mentioned he was next working on a big top secret gig due out next year and that it was something he'd dreamed of working on. He was practically giddy talking about it, even bouncing around on his piano stool. He seemed genuinely excited about it.

    I'd heard the Romer rumours, and was pretty certain he was referring to NTTD. It was the only other big 2020 release he wasn't attached to.

    If NTTD is the mystery project here then he’s likely been at it for a few months (and probably doing much of it himself if it is a dream project).

    Although we can't say for sure but from what @Red_Snow has said that he said at the concert he attended, that it all seems too much of coincidence not to be NTTD.

    I mean this is the most prolific composer in Hollywood, the go to guy for many big directors and for Zimmer to say he is working on a dream project it has to be something very special for him.

    He has already done plenty of big franchises so this being Bond he is talking about seems a definite to me

    Even a big name, Zimmer must be in awe of Barry and also the heritage of Bond and how important music is to the series, I can imagine a project like this would have Hans as giddy as a schoolboy.

    I can imagine it must have been amazing experience seeing him live @Red_Snow

    I for one are most excited to hear a Hans Zimmer Bond score.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I have Complete trust in Zimmer....even with the time he has to score the film. Newman started working on SP during filming....and look at the score we got.

    A good score!

    Well, not entirely. If does have some good tracks...but in reality it's a continuation of SF's score. That helicopter fight needed a new good Bond track, so does the Car chase, and that moment where Bond uses his watch with the help of Madeleine to escape, so does the Boat & Helicopter chase & many other scenes.

    My main problem with SP's score is, most of it's action scenes has SF's tracks. Even if Mendes suggested re-using SF's tracks, I think Newman didn't really push to say NO....after all, it's his name that would appear on screen as Composer...not Mendes. So are we saying if Mendes told Arnold to re-use majority of his previous scores in the present film, Arnold would just do that without really telling Mendes why it won't work....It seems to me Newman didn't really care.

    A lot of biased assumptions here.

    Oh! no, iam not....My point is, i don't think any Bond fan would have enjoyed Barry repeating majority of his tracks from FRWL in GF. Coz it might have ruined both scores. Imagine if Newman was completely originally in SP....as he was in SF, his Bond reputation would have been better.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I have Complete trust in Zimmer....even with the time he has to score the film. Newman started working on SP during filming....and look at the score we got.

    A good score!

    Well, not entirely. If does have some good tracks...but in reality it's a continuation of SF's score. That helicopter fight needed a new good Bond track, so does the Car chase, and that moment where Bond uses his watch with the help of Madeleine to escape, so does the Boat & Helicopter chase & many other scenes.

    My main problem with SP's score is, most of it's action scenes has SF's tracks. Even if Mendes suggested re-using SF's tracks, I think Newman didn't really push to say NO....after all, it's his name that would appear on screen as Composer...not Mendes. So are we saying if Mendes told Arnold to re-use majority of his previous scores in the present film, Arnold would just do that without really telling Mendes why it won't work....It seems to me Newman didn't really care.

    A lot of biased assumptions here.

    Oh! no, iam not....My point is, i don't think any Bond fan would have enjoyed Barry repeating majority of his tracks in FRWL in GF.

    You said that Newman didn’t object to Mendes and Smith reusing cues because he doesn’t care, with nothing to back it up.

    I don’t like that Mendes used some SF tracks. When I say I thought the score was good, I’m only commenting on the new material that he composed for SP. I certainly would have like it more if Newman was given the task of scoring the sections Mendes filled in with the temp tracks. Of the reused tracks, the only hits I like are the reprises like M and Moneypenny’s theme, basically reprises that made sense. But the bits that didn’t work were what you pointed out like the escape from the desert lair and stuff like “Somebody Usually Dies” tacked on the Nine Eyes voting session.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    I don’t think there’s any reason to think that, no.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    It may not have been super popular among the fan base, but I don’t see any reason as to why EON wouldn’t have liked Newman’s score and they certainly wouldn’t have had him come back for Spectre if that were the case. In fact, Skyfall earned the first Oscar nomination for Best Original Score since The Spy Who Loved Me. It may not have been Arnold or Barry, but Newman’s contributions (if unspectacular) fit very well within the parameters of what to expect from a Bond score. Romer, on the other hand, has a style that’s totally incongruous to Hollywood blockbusters, let alone a Bond film so it’s totally understandable that EON may not be happy with his take. It’s interesting that they’ve done as big of a 180 as possible going from Romer to the modern king of Hollywood blockbuster scores. I think we’ve got something special in store, especially if it’s true that Zimmer has been working on this for some time already. If there’s anyone who’d understand the iconic nature and importance of Bond scores in film history, it’d be Zimmer, and I doubt he’d half-ass his contribution to that legacy.

    Yes, good post.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Didn't EON have to apply pressure to Newman to incorporate the theme from Adele's song into the movie score? It gets a brief reprise when Bond arrives at the Macau casino but Newman got one of his minions to score it.

    I’m not aware of that: where did you hear that? I heard him being interviewed about it and he seemed more than happy.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, another thing is had Newman scored Goldeneye, the track ' A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg' might have been accepted by Eon....Just Maybe. Coz even in the 90s Newman was already a prominent Composer. Like Romer, Serra was young & somewhat obscure....so it was easy to bring another Composer to score a scene Serra had already scored...which to be honest was quite embarrassing. But i still like John Altman's 'Tank Chase Around St. Petersburg' & Eric Serra's 'A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg'.....I think it works as a listening experience. But of course, Altman's version was chosen coz it was more traditional.

    Another Example is Bill Conti's 'Runaway' from FYEO's score. Although, the track works as listening experience & and somehow fits Moore's Playful portrayal of Bond. I don't think Barry would have been that playful with that scene, considering FYEO was a more grounded Bond film. And Conti was the guy who scored Rocky....meaning he had a huge Profile already. So like Newman, he was definitely going to be given freedom....at least to a certain degree. One huge plus though, was Conti was able to work with Sheena Easton....so he weaved the title track into the score. Just like how Martin & Hamlisch did too to great effect. I recently started warming up to Michael Kamen's LTK'S score....and I couldn't help, but think had he used the title track in his score, it might have been instantly liked and would have been a better score. Strangely enough, I like Serra's score even without him weaving the title song into his score. One can only imagine how ultra-brilliant that score would have been if he did that....but still I like the score.

    I don’t think Runaway is particularly playful: it’s one of the more dramatic bits of music in that score.

    95% certain Newman was strongly resistant to incorporating Adele and Smith's songs into the scores

    Source?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyfall:_Original_Motion_Picture_Soundtrack
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I have Complete trust in Zimmer....even with the time he has to score the film. Newman started working on SP during filming....and look at the score we got.

    A good score!

    Well, not entirely. If does have some good tracks...but in reality it's a continuation of SF's score. That helicopter fight needed a new good Bond track, so does the Car chase, and that moment where Bond uses his watch with the help of Madeleine to escape, so does the Boat & Helicopter chase & many other scenes.

    My main problem with SP's score is, most of it's action scenes has SF's tracks. Even if Mendes suggested re-using SF's tracks, I think Newman didn't really push to say NO....after all, it's his name that would appear on screen as Composer...not Mendes. So are we saying if Mendes told Arnold to re-use majority of his previous scores in the present film, Arnold would just do that without really telling Mendes why it won't work....It seems to me Newman didn't really care.

    A lot of biased assumptions here.

    Oh! no, iam not....My point is, i don't think any Bond fan would have enjoyed Barry repeating majority of his tracks in FRWL in GF.

    You said that Newman didn’t object to Mendes and Smith reusing cues because he doesn’t care, with nothing to back it up.

    I don’t like that Mendes used some SF tracks. When I say I thought the score was good, I’m only commenting on the new material that he composed for SP. I certainly would have like it more if Newman was given the task of scoring the sections Mendes filled in with the temp tracks. Of the reused tracks, the only hits I like are the reprises like M and Moneypenny’s theme, basically reprises that made sense. But the bits that didn’t work were what you pointed out like the escape from the desert lair and stuff like “Somebody Usually Dies” tacked on the Nine Eyes voting session.

    Yeah, that's what I meant too. There's a nice recurring theme that appears in 'Crows Klinik', 'Secret Room' & 'Safe House'. which are great. Just that majority of the score felt like SF....Coz the SF tracks were featured in key scenes. And I don't have any proof about Newman not caring enough...it's just a hunch I have. For some reason I think Newman was a bit casual about it in SP. To be fair to Newman he did surprise people with his SF score. Coz am sure majority of us expected worse. But it was fair enough. And when it was announced that he was returning for SP, I was really looking forward to something new & better. But to hear it bearing too much resemblance to SF's score was truly underwhelming.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    Getafix wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    I don’t think there’s any reason to think that, no.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    It may not have been super popular among the fan base, but I don’t see any reason as to why EON wouldn’t have liked Newman’s score and they certainly wouldn’t have had him come back for Spectre if that were the case. In fact, Skyfall earned the first Oscar nomination for Best Original Score since The Spy Who Loved Me. It may not have been Arnold or Barry, but Newman’s contributions (if unspectacular) fit very well within the parameters of what to expect from a Bond score. Romer, on the other hand, has a style that’s totally incongruous to Hollywood blockbusters, let alone a Bond film so it’s totally understandable that EON may not be happy with his take. It’s interesting that they’ve done as big of a 180 as possible going from Romer to the modern king of Hollywood blockbuster scores. I think we’ve got something special in store, especially if it’s true that Zimmer has been working on this for some time already. If there’s anyone who’d understand the iconic nature and importance of Bond scores in film history, it’d be Zimmer, and I doubt he’d half-ass his contribution to that legacy.

    Yes, good post.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Didn't EON have to apply pressure to Newman to incorporate the theme from Adele's song into the movie score? It gets a brief reprise when Bond arrives at the Macau casino but Newman got one of his minions to score it.

    I’m not aware of that: where did you hear that? I heard him being interviewed about it and he seemed more than happy.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, another thing is had Newman scored Goldeneye, the track ' A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg' might have been accepted by Eon....Just Maybe. Coz even in the 90s Newman was already a prominent Composer. Like Romer, Serra was young & somewhat obscure....so it was easy to bring another Composer to score a scene Serra had already scored...which to be honest was quite embarrassing. But i still like John Altman's 'Tank Chase Around St. Petersburg' & Eric Serra's 'A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg'.....I think it works as a listening experience. But of course, Altman's version was chosen coz it was more traditional.

    Another Example is Bill Conti's 'Runaway' from FYEO's score. Although, the track works as listening experience & and somehow fits Moore's Playful portrayal of Bond. I don't think Barry would have been that playful with that scene, considering FYEO was a more grounded Bond film. And Conti was the guy who scored Rocky....meaning he had a huge Profile already. So like Newman, he was definitely going to be given freedom....at least to a certain degree. One huge plus though, was Conti was able to work with Sheena Easton....so he weaved the title track into the score. Just like how Martin & Hamlisch did too to great effect. I recently started warming up to Michael Kamen's LTK'S score....and I couldn't help, but think had he used the title track in his score, it might have been instantly liked and would have been a better score. Strangely enough, I like Serra's score even without him weaving the title song into his score. One can only imagine how ultra-brilliant that score would have been if he did that....but still I like the score.

    I don’t think Runaway is particularly playful: it’s one of the more dramatic bits of music in that score.

    95% certain Newman was strongly resistant to incorporating Adele and Smith's songs into the scores

    Source?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyfall:_Original_Motion_Picture_Soundtrack

    That’s not helpful.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I dunno: it’s a sequel- I don’t mind it reprising the first. I mentioned Zimmer’s Sherlock Holmes above, and Game of Shadows wasn’t exactly a whole new musical landscape. A lot of folks here want to hear the same old themes and cues again (like the 007 theme) but if the composer actually does that then that’s a bad thing too! Someone somewhere is always going to complain
    :)

    Yeah, true...although, in Game of shadows...even if Zimmer reprised some themes from the first installment, he created a whole lot of new themes. Holmes & Watson had alternative themes. Moriarty also had his theme. I mean Blofeld doesn't even have a theme in SP. Instead his theme is the track 'Skyfall' from SF. Not that Silva had a theme in SF...but one can forgive that, Coz SF's score was unique.

    The biggest problem with the SP theme is that he started repeating old cues as early as the PTS! Lazy, lazy, lazy. The Maestro had the decency to repeat, say, the 007 theme, an hour and a half into MR, etc.

    It makes sense to use the same cue for Dench at the beginning and end of SF, and again in SP. But there were so many instances in SP where Newman just lifted random cues from SF and dropped them in an unrelated scene in SP.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    That was my beef with the score as well. I was fine with them reusing M's theme like Vesper's theme being reused in QOS but the other tracks like Silva's escape in the PTS of Mexico just took me out of the movie. Every time I heard a recycled track it just pulled me out of the movie. Not a good thing IMO.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    echo wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I dunno: it’s a sequel- I don’t mind it reprising the first. I mentioned Zimmer’s Sherlock Holmes above, and Game of Shadows wasn’t exactly a whole new musical landscape. A lot of folks here want to hear the same old themes and cues again (like the 007 theme) but if the composer actually does that then that’s a bad thing too! Someone somewhere is always going to complain
    :)

    Yeah, true...although, in Game of shadows...even if Zimmer reprised some themes from the first installment, he created a whole lot of new themes. Holmes & Watson had alternative themes. Moriarty also had his theme. I mean Blofeld doesn't even have a theme in SP. Instead his theme is the track 'Skyfall' from SF. Not that Silva had a theme in SF...but one can forgive that, Coz SF's score was unique.

    The biggest problem with the SP theme is that he started repeating old cues as early as the PTS! Lazy, lazy, lazy. The Maestro had the decency to repeat, say, the 007 theme, an hour and a half into MR, etc.

    It makes sense to use the same cue for Dench at the beginning and end of SF, and again in SP. But there were so many instances in SP where Newman just lifted random cues from SF and dropped them in an unrelated scene in SP.

    Reusing cues was not Newman’s call, that was Mendes, after a suggestion by Lee Smith in the editing process.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 17,744
    Murdock wrote: »
    That was my beef with the score as well. I was fine with them reusing M's theme like Vesper's theme being reused in QOS but the other tracks like Silva's escape in the PTS of Mexico just took me out of the movie. Every time I heard a recycled track it just pulled me out of the movie. Not a good thing IMO.

    Whoever may be of fault of reusing tracks I really don't care, but I had the very same experience with SP.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Getafix wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    I don’t think there’s any reason to think that, no.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    It may not have been super popular among the fan base, but I don’t see any reason as to why EON wouldn’t have liked Newman’s score and they certainly wouldn’t have had him come back for Spectre if that were the case. In fact, Skyfall earned the first Oscar nomination for Best Original Score since The Spy Who Loved Me. It may not have been Arnold or Barry, but Newman’s contributions (if unspectacular) fit very well within the parameters of what to expect from a Bond score. Romer, on the other hand, has a style that’s totally incongruous to Hollywood blockbusters, let alone a Bond film so it’s totally understandable that EON may not be happy with his take. It’s interesting that they’ve done as big of a 180 as possible going from Romer to the modern king of Hollywood blockbuster scores. I think we’ve got something special in store, especially if it’s true that Zimmer has been working on this for some time already. If there’s anyone who’d understand the iconic nature and importance of Bond scores in film history, it’d be Zimmer, and I doubt he’d half-ass his contribution to that legacy.

    Yes, good post.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Didn't EON have to apply pressure to Newman to incorporate the theme from Adele's song into the movie score? It gets a brief reprise when Bond arrives at the Macau casino but Newman got one of his minions to score it.

    I’m not aware of that: where did you hear that? I heard him being interviewed about it and he seemed more than happy.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, another thing is had Newman scored Goldeneye, the track ' A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg' might have been accepted by Eon....Just Maybe. Coz even in the 90s Newman was already a prominent Composer. Like Romer, Serra was young & somewhat obscure....so it was easy to bring another Composer to score a scene Serra had already scored...which to be honest was quite embarrassing. But i still like John Altman's 'Tank Chase Around St. Petersburg' & Eric Serra's 'A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg'.....I think it works as a listening experience. But of course, Altman's version was chosen coz it was more traditional.

    Another Example is Bill Conti's 'Runaway' from FYEO's score. Although, the track works as listening experience & and somehow fits Moore's Playful portrayal of Bond. I don't think Barry would have been that playful with that scene, considering FYEO was a more grounded Bond film. And Conti was the guy who scored Rocky....meaning he had a huge Profile already. So like Newman, he was definitely going to be given freedom....at least to a certain degree. One huge plus though, was Conti was able to work with Sheena Easton....so he weaved the title track into the score. Just like how Martin & Hamlisch did too to great effect. I recently started warming up to Michael Kamen's LTK'S score....and I couldn't help, but think had he used the title track in his score, it might have been instantly liked and would have been a better score. Strangely enough, I like Serra's score even without him weaving the title song into his score. One can only imagine how ultra-brilliant that score would have been if he did that....but still I like the score.

    I don’t think Runaway is particularly playful: it’s one of the more dramatic bits of music in that score.

    95% certain Newman was strongly resistant to incorporating Adele and Smith's songs into the scores

    Source?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyfall:_Original_Motion_Picture_Soundtrack

    That’s not helpful.
    Third paragraph under "Development" mentions the 'Komodo Dragon' trivia.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    echo wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I dunno: it’s a sequel- I don’t mind it reprising the first. I mentioned Zimmer’s Sherlock Holmes above, and Game of Shadows wasn’t exactly a whole new musical landscape. A lot of folks here want to hear the same old themes and cues again (like the 007 theme) but if the composer actually does that then that’s a bad thing too! Someone somewhere is always going to complain
    :)

    Yeah, true...although, in Game of shadows...even if Zimmer reprised some themes from the first installment, he created a whole lot of new themes. Holmes & Watson had alternative themes. Moriarty also had his theme. I mean Blofeld doesn't even have a theme in SP. Instead his theme is the track 'Skyfall' from SF. Not that Silva had a theme in SF...but one can forgive that, Coz SF's score was unique.

    The biggest problem with the SP theme is that he started repeating old cues as early as the PTS! Lazy, lazy, lazy. The Maestro had the decency to repeat, say, the 007 theme, an hour and a half into MR, etc.

    It makes sense to use the same cue for Dench at the beginning and end of SF, and again in SP. But there were so many instances in SP where Newman just lifted random cues from SF and dropped them in an unrelated scene in SP.

    Reusing cues was not Newman’s call, that was Mendes, after a suggestion by Lee Smith in the editing process.

    Yeah, that's why I said with Newman knowing that it's his name that will appear under music, he should have really stood his ground....he's Mendes' friend after all, so am sure Mendes would have listened....it's not that easy for fans to always be reminded that it's not Newman's fault. I obviously don't have any proof....but it seems to me like Mendes just told Newman to reuse his old themes & he agreed....instantly.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    Minion wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    I don’t think there’s any reason to think that, no.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    It may not have been super popular among the fan base, but I don’t see any reason as to why EON wouldn’t have liked Newman’s score and they certainly wouldn’t have had him come back for Spectre if that were the case. In fact, Skyfall earned the first Oscar nomination for Best Original Score since The Spy Who Loved Me. It may not have been Arnold or Barry, but Newman’s contributions (if unspectacular) fit very well within the parameters of what to expect from a Bond score. Romer, on the other hand, has a style that’s totally incongruous to Hollywood blockbusters, let alone a Bond film so it’s totally understandable that EON may not be happy with his take. It’s interesting that they’ve done as big of a 180 as possible going from Romer to the modern king of Hollywood blockbuster scores. I think we’ve got something special in store, especially if it’s true that Zimmer has been working on this for some time already. If there’s anyone who’d understand the iconic nature and importance of Bond scores in film history, it’d be Zimmer, and I doubt he’d half-ass his contribution to that legacy.

    Yes, good post.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Didn't EON have to apply pressure to Newman to incorporate the theme from Adele's song into the movie score? It gets a brief reprise when Bond arrives at the Macau casino but Newman got one of his minions to score it.

    I’m not aware of that: where did you hear that? I heard him being interviewed about it and he seemed more than happy.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, another thing is had Newman scored Goldeneye, the track ' A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg' might have been accepted by Eon....Just Maybe. Coz even in the 90s Newman was already a prominent Composer. Like Romer, Serra was young & somewhat obscure....so it was easy to bring another Composer to score a scene Serra had already scored...which to be honest was quite embarrassing. But i still like John Altman's 'Tank Chase Around St. Petersburg' & Eric Serra's 'A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg'.....I think it works as a listening experience. But of course, Altman's version was chosen coz it was more traditional.

    Another Example is Bill Conti's 'Runaway' from FYEO's score. Although, the track works as listening experience & and somehow fits Moore's Playful portrayal of Bond. I don't think Barry would have been that playful with that scene, considering FYEO was a more grounded Bond film. And Conti was the guy who scored Rocky....meaning he had a huge Profile already. So like Newman, he was definitely going to be given freedom....at least to a certain degree. One huge plus though, was Conti was able to work with Sheena Easton....so he weaved the title track into the score. Just like how Martin & Hamlisch did too to great effect. I recently started warming up to Michael Kamen's LTK'S score....and I couldn't help, but think had he used the title track in his score, it might have been instantly liked and would have been a better score. Strangely enough, I like Serra's score even without him weaving the title song into his score. One can only imagine how ultra-brilliant that score would have been if he did that....but still I like the score.

    I don’t think Runaway is particularly playful: it’s one of the more dramatic bits of music in that score.

    95% certain Newman was strongly resistant to incorporating Adele and Smith's songs into the scores

    Source?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyfall:_Original_Motion_Picture_Soundtrack

    That’s not helpful.
    Third paragraph under "Development" mentions the 'Komodo Dragon' trivia.

    It says EON insisted in inserting the title song, not that Newman “refused” to.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Minion wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    I don’t think there’s any reason to think that, no.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    It may not have been super popular among the fan base, but I don’t see any reason as to why EON wouldn’t have liked Newman’s score and they certainly wouldn’t have had him come back for Spectre if that were the case. In fact, Skyfall earned the first Oscar nomination for Best Original Score since The Spy Who Loved Me. It may not have been Arnold or Barry, but Newman’s contributions (if unspectacular) fit very well within the parameters of what to expect from a Bond score. Romer, on the other hand, has a style that’s totally incongruous to Hollywood blockbusters, let alone a Bond film so it’s totally understandable that EON may not be happy with his take. It’s interesting that they’ve done as big of a 180 as possible going from Romer to the modern king of Hollywood blockbuster scores. I think we’ve got something special in store, especially if it’s true that Zimmer has been working on this for some time already. If there’s anyone who’d understand the iconic nature and importance of Bond scores in film history, it’d be Zimmer, and I doubt he’d half-ass his contribution to that legacy.

    Yes, good post.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Didn't EON have to apply pressure to Newman to incorporate the theme from Adele's song into the movie score? It gets a brief reprise when Bond arrives at the Macau casino but Newman got one of his minions to score it.

    I’m not aware of that: where did you hear that? I heard him being interviewed about it and he seemed more than happy.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, another thing is had Newman scored Goldeneye, the track ' A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg' might have been accepted by Eon....Just Maybe. Coz even in the 90s Newman was already a prominent Composer. Like Romer, Serra was young & somewhat obscure....so it was easy to bring another Composer to score a scene Serra had already scored...which to be honest was quite embarrassing. But i still like John Altman's 'Tank Chase Around St. Petersburg' & Eric Serra's 'A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg'.....I think it works as a listening experience. But of course, Altman's version was chosen coz it was more traditional.

    Another Example is Bill Conti's 'Runaway' from FYEO's score. Although, the track works as listening experience & and somehow fits Moore's Playful portrayal of Bond. I don't think Barry would have been that playful with that scene, considering FYEO was a more grounded Bond film. And Conti was the guy who scored Rocky....meaning he had a huge Profile already. So like Newman, he was definitely going to be given freedom....at least to a certain degree. One huge plus though, was Conti was able to work with Sheena Easton....so he weaved the title track into the score. Just like how Martin & Hamlisch did too to great effect. I recently started warming up to Michael Kamen's LTK'S score....and I couldn't help, but think had he used the title track in his score, it might have been instantly liked and would have been a better score. Strangely enough, I like Serra's score even without him weaving the title song into his score. One can only imagine how ultra-brilliant that score would have been if he did that....but still I like the score.

    I don’t think Runaway is particularly playful: it’s one of the more dramatic bits of music in that score.

    95% certain Newman was strongly resistant to incorporating Adele and Smith's songs into the scores

    Source?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyfall:_Original_Motion_Picture_Soundtrack

    That’s not helpful.
    Third paragraph under "Development" mentions the 'Komodo Dragon' trivia.

    It says EON insisted in inserting the title song, not that Newman “refused” to.
    Oh, sorry, I wasn't getting involved in that conversation. I'm on your side; I don't think Newman refused to insert the theme anymore than you could say Michael Kamen "refused" to use the Licence to Kill theme in his score.
  • Listen to this interview with Hans Zimmer where he talks about being a John Barry fan at 18:00

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    Minion wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    I don’t think there’s any reason to think that, no.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    It may not have been super popular among the fan base, but I don’t see any reason as to why EON wouldn’t have liked Newman’s score and they certainly wouldn’t have had him come back for Spectre if that were the case. In fact, Skyfall earned the first Oscar nomination for Best Original Score since The Spy Who Loved Me. It may not have been Arnold or Barry, but Newman’s contributions (if unspectacular) fit very well within the parameters of what to expect from a Bond score. Romer, on the other hand, has a style that’s totally incongruous to Hollywood blockbusters, let alone a Bond film so it’s totally understandable that EON may not be happy with his take. It’s interesting that they’ve done as big of a 180 as possible going from Romer to the modern king of Hollywood blockbuster scores. I think we’ve got something special in store, especially if it’s true that Zimmer has been working on this for some time already. If there’s anyone who’d understand the iconic nature and importance of Bond scores in film history, it’d be Zimmer, and I doubt he’d half-ass his contribution to that legacy.

    Yes, good post.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Didn't EON have to apply pressure to Newman to incorporate the theme from Adele's song into the movie score? It gets a brief reprise when Bond arrives at the Macau casino but Newman got one of his minions to score it.

    I’m not aware of that: where did you hear that? I heard him being interviewed about it and he seemed more than happy.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, another thing is had Newman scored Goldeneye, the track ' A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg' might have been accepted by Eon....Just Maybe. Coz even in the 90s Newman was already a prominent Composer. Like Romer, Serra was young & somewhat obscure....so it was easy to bring another Composer to score a scene Serra had already scored...which to be honest was quite embarrassing. But i still like John Altman's 'Tank Chase Around St. Petersburg' & Eric Serra's 'A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg'.....I think it works as a listening experience. But of course, Altman's version was chosen coz it was more traditional.

    Another Example is Bill Conti's 'Runaway' from FYEO's score. Although, the track works as listening experience & and somehow fits Moore's Playful portrayal of Bond. I don't think Barry would have been that playful with that scene, considering FYEO was a more grounded Bond film. And Conti was the guy who scored Rocky....meaning he had a huge Profile already. So like Newman, he was definitely going to be given freedom....at least to a certain degree. One huge plus though, was Conti was able to work with Sheena Easton....so he weaved the title track into the score. Just like how Martin & Hamlisch did too to great effect. I recently started warming up to Michael Kamen's LTK'S score....and I couldn't help, but think had he used the title track in his score, it might have been instantly liked and would have been a better score. Strangely enough, I like Serra's score even without him weaving the title song into his score. One can only imagine how ultra-brilliant that score would have been if he did that....but still I like the score.

    I don’t think Runaway is particularly playful: it’s one of the more dramatic bits of music in that score.

    95% certain Newman was strongly resistant to incorporating Adele and Smith's songs into the scores

    Source?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyfall:_Original_Motion_Picture_Soundtrack

    That’s not helpful.
    Third paragraph under "Development" mentions the 'Komodo Dragon' trivia.

    It says EON insisted in inserting the title song, not that Newman “refused” to.
    Oh, sorry, I wasn't getting involved in that conversation. I'm on your side; I don't think Newman refused to insert the theme anymore than you could say Michael Kamen "refused" to use the Licence to Kill theme in his score.

    Exactly. 100%
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Listen to this interview with Hans Zimmer where he talks about being a John Barry fan at 18:00


    As if Bond fans didn't notice enough.....Inception was indeed Zimmer's unofficial Bond score.
  • Posts: 3,274
    HASEROT wrote: »
    And like I said, agree to disagree, I'm glad you are excited (and who knows I might be surprised with what he does).. But I've always considered Zimmer the McDonalds of film music.

    Couldn't help but feeling a little creative tonight. Here's one of the tracks I mentioned, replacing Newman's in the Rome car chase from SP:
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    Zekidk wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    And like I said, agree to disagree, I'm glad you are excited (and who knows I might be surprised with what he does).. But I've always considered Zimmer the McDonalds of film music.

    Couldn't help but feeling a little creative tonight. Here's one of the tracks I mentioned, replacing Newman's in the Rome car chase from SP:

    Wow! So much better! Even if it's from Batman. I think the track is 'Molossus' from Batman Begins. And coupled with getting rid of Moneypenny's dialogue, this track adds intensity to the Car chase.....this just gets to show that a good score might have elevated SP. Of coz Zimmer doesn't have to sound like Batman....but he'll still do a great score for NTTD.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Funny enough I did a rescore of that scene with Batman music as well but Elliot Goldenthal's Batman and Robin score. ;)
  • Posts: 3,274
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    And like I said, agree to disagree, I'm glad you are excited (and who knows I might be surprised with what he does).. But I've always considered Zimmer the McDonalds of film music.

    Couldn't help but feeling a little creative tonight. Here's one of the tracks I mentioned, replacing Newman's in the Rome car chase from SP:

    Wow! So much better! Even if it's from Batman. I think the track is 'Molossus' from Batman Begins. And coupled with getting rid of Moneypenny's dialogue, this track adds intensity to the Car chase
    Thank you. Always wanted to remove Moneypenny from that setpiece, now I had the chance :-)
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Zekidk wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    And like I said, agree to disagree, I'm glad you are excited (and who knows I might be surprised with what he does).. But I've always considered Zimmer the McDonalds of film music.

    Couldn't help but feeling a little creative tonight. Here's one of the tracks I mentioned, replacing Newman's in the Rome car chase from SP:

    Wow! So much better! Even if it's from Batman. I think the track is 'Molossus' from Batman Begins. And coupled with getting rid of Moneypenny's dialogue, this track adds intensity to the Car chase
    Thank you. Always wanted to remove Moneypenny from that setpiece, now I had the chance :-)

    :) Indeed.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    antovolk wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    From Facebook:

    oEy6fVZ.jpg

    I don't believe that's Fukunaga's official page.

    It isn’t. It’s a fan page. Fukunaga has an actual Facebook profile but it he hasn’t used it in a decade.
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