NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • Posts: 831
    Listen to this interview with Hans Zimmer where he talks about being a John Barry fan at 18:00


    GREAT to hear!
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 831
    Variety's updated their Zimmer article with a link to Fukunaga's "confirmation" -- that Facebook post which (I think) seems to be a fan account. I'm confident in Burlingame's scoop overall, but that 'update' is a rather strange miss by their editorial staff.
  • Posts: 1,858
    BTW how long did Barry have to work on Goldfinger or From Russia with love?
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,399
    Zekidk wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    And like I said, agree to disagree, I'm glad you are excited (and who knows I might be surprised with what he does).. But I've always considered Zimmer the McDonalds of film music.

    Couldn't help but feeling a little creative tonight. Here's one of the tracks I mentioned, replacing Newman's in the Rome car chase from SP:

    good job on the edit :)

    but as i said in my video - Zimmer just doesn't do it for me, i actually prefer the Newman track over that Zimmer one...

    if you want an example of how that scene should be scored (IMO) - try putting Arnold's "Target Terminated" or "Time To Get Out" from QOS over that same car chase scene, and see the results ;) ..

    i know people bash Arnold because of his over-reliance on the Bond theme in his scores - but dammit, it at least felt like a B-O-N-D score.. the lack of it since CR is annoying to me.. it's like using it has suddenly become taboo, its only ever good enough to be played over the closing credits, or whenever the Aston shows up >:P
  • Posts: 3,327
    Zekidk wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    And like I said, agree to disagree, I'm glad you are excited (and who knows I might be surprised with what he does).. But I've always considered Zimmer the McDonalds of film music.

    Couldn't help but feeling a little creative tonight. Here's one of the tracks I mentioned, replacing Newman's in the Rome car chase from SP:

    Brilliant! Looks like a completely different car chase now.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    I don’t think there’s any reason to think that, no.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    It may not have been super popular among the fan base, but I don’t see any reason as to why EON wouldn’t have liked Newman’s score and they certainly wouldn’t have had him come back for Spectre if that were the case. In fact, Skyfall earned the first Oscar nomination for Best Original Score since The Spy Who Loved Me. It may not have been Arnold or Barry, but Newman’s contributions (if unspectacular) fit very well within the parameters of what to expect from a Bond score. Romer, on the other hand, has a style that’s totally incongruous to Hollywood blockbusters, let alone a Bond film so it’s totally understandable that EON may not be happy with his take. It’s interesting that they’ve done as big of a 180 as possible going from Romer to the modern king of Hollywood blockbuster scores. I think we’ve got something special in store, especially if it’s true that Zimmer has been working on this for some time already. If there’s anyone who’d understand the iconic nature and importance of Bond scores in film history, it’d be Zimmer, and I doubt he’d half-ass his contribution to that legacy.

    Yes, good post.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Didn't EON have to apply pressure to Newman to incorporate the theme from Adele's song into the movie score? It gets a brief reprise when Bond arrives at the Macau casino but Newman got one of his minions to score it.

    I’m not aware of that: where did you hear that? I heard him being interviewed about it and he seemed more than happy.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, another thing is had Newman scored Goldeneye, the track ' A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg' might have been accepted by Eon....Just Maybe. Coz even in the 90s Newman was already a prominent Composer. Like Romer, Serra was young & somewhat obscure....so it was easy to bring another Composer to score a scene Serra had already scored...which to be honest was quite embarrassing. But i still like John Altman's 'Tank Chase Around St. Petersburg' & Eric Serra's 'A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg'.....I think it works as a listening experience. But of course, Altman's version was chosen coz it was more traditional.

    Another Example is Bill Conti's 'Runaway' from FYEO's score. Although, the track works as listening experience & and somehow fits Moore's Playful portrayal of Bond. I don't think Barry would have been that playful with that scene, considering FYEO was a more grounded Bond film. And Conti was the guy who scored Rocky....meaning he had a huge Profile already. So like Newman, he was definitely going to be given freedom....at least to a certain degree. One huge plus though, was Conti was able to work with Sheena Easton....so he weaved the title track into the score. Just like how Martin & Hamlisch did too to great effect. I recently started warming up to Michael Kamen's LTK'S score....and I couldn't help, but think had he used the title track in his score, it might have been instantly liked and would have been a better score. Strangely enough, I like Serra's score even without him weaving the title song into his score. One can only imagine how ultra-brilliant that score would have been if he did that....but still I like the score.

    I don’t think Runaway is particularly playful: it’s one of the more dramatic bits of music in that score.

    95% certain Newman was strongly resistant to incorporating Adele and Smith's songs into the scores

    Source?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyfall:_Original_Motion_Picture_Soundtrack

    That’s not helpful.

    "... at the producer's insistence Newman added an interpolation of "Skyfall" in the track "Komodo Dragon", used in a scene where Bond enters a casino in Macau."

  • edited January 2020 Posts: 11,425
    Minion wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    I don’t think there’s any reason to think that, no.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    It may not have been super popular among the fan base, but I don’t see any reason as to why EON wouldn’t have liked Newman’s score and they certainly wouldn’t have had him come back for Spectre if that were the case. In fact, Skyfall earned the first Oscar nomination for Best Original Score since The Spy Who Loved Me. It may not have been Arnold or Barry, but Newman’s contributions (if unspectacular) fit very well within the parameters of what to expect from a Bond score. Romer, on the other hand, has a style that’s totally incongruous to Hollywood blockbusters, let alone a Bond film so it’s totally understandable that EON may not be happy with his take. It’s interesting that they’ve done as big of a 180 as possible going from Romer to the modern king of Hollywood blockbuster scores. I think we’ve got something special in store, especially if it’s true that Zimmer has been working on this for some time already. If there’s anyone who’d understand the iconic nature and importance of Bond scores in film history, it’d be Zimmer, and I doubt he’d half-ass his contribution to that legacy.

    Yes, good post.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Didn't EON have to apply pressure to Newman to incorporate the theme from Adele's song into the movie score? It gets a brief reprise when Bond arrives at the Macau casino but Newman got one of his minions to score it.

    I’m not aware of that: where did you hear that? I heard him being interviewed about it and he seemed more than happy.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, another thing is had Newman scored Goldeneye, the track ' A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg' might have been accepted by Eon....Just Maybe. Coz even in the 90s Newman was already a prominent Composer. Like Romer, Serra was young & somewhat obscure....so it was easy to bring another Composer to score a scene Serra had already scored...which to be honest was quite embarrassing. But i still like John Altman's 'Tank Chase Around St. Petersburg' & Eric Serra's 'A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg'.....I think it works as a listening experience. But of course, Altman's version was chosen coz it was more traditional.

    Another Example is Bill Conti's 'Runaway' from FYEO's score. Although, the track works as listening experience & and somehow fits Moore's Playful portrayal of Bond. I don't think Barry would have been that playful with that scene, considering FYEO was a more grounded Bond film. And Conti was the guy who scored Rocky....meaning he had a huge Profile already. So like Newman, he was definitely going to be given freedom....at least to a certain degree. One huge plus though, was Conti was able to work with Sheena Easton....so he weaved the title track into the score. Just like how Martin & Hamlisch did too to great effect. I recently started warming up to Michael Kamen's LTK'S score....and I couldn't help, but think had he used the title track in his score, it might have been instantly liked and would have been a better score. Strangely enough, I like Serra's score even without him weaving the title song into his score. One can only imagine how ultra-brilliant that score would have been if he did that....but still I like the score.

    I don’t think Runaway is particularly playful: it’s one of the more dramatic bits of music in that score.

    95% certain Newman was strongly resistant to incorporating Adele and Smith's songs into the scores

    Source?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyfall:_Original_Motion_Picture_Soundtrack

    That’s not helpful.
    Third paragraph under "Development" mentions the 'Komodo Dragon' trivia.

    It says EON insisted in inserting the title song, not that Newman “refused” to.

    Okay. Splitting hairs a little here.

    Anyway, the tradition in the great Bond scores is that the theme from the title song recurs during the film. Newman is not an idiot so he obviously knew this. And yet it was the producers who insisted he include it.

    A less precious composer than Newman would have wanted to work more closely with Adele and her composer to achieve a collaborative effort. That's what Barry did even when he hated the collaborators, such as A-ha.

    The SF score would have been elevated if Newman had done this.

    Ditto, the one brief reference to TWOTW in SP really pops out. Newman should have used it more.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    Getafix wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    I don’t think there’s any reason to think that, no.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    It may not have been super popular among the fan base, but I don’t see any reason as to why EON wouldn’t have liked Newman’s score and they certainly wouldn’t have had him come back for Spectre if that were the case. In fact, Skyfall earned the first Oscar nomination for Best Original Score since The Spy Who Loved Me. It may not have been Arnold or Barry, but Newman’s contributions (if unspectacular) fit very well within the parameters of what to expect from a Bond score. Romer, on the other hand, has a style that’s totally incongruous to Hollywood blockbusters, let alone a Bond film so it’s totally understandable that EON may not be happy with his take. It’s interesting that they’ve done as big of a 180 as possible going from Romer to the modern king of Hollywood blockbuster scores. I think we’ve got something special in store, especially if it’s true that Zimmer has been working on this for some time already. If there’s anyone who’d understand the iconic nature and importance of Bond scores in film history, it’d be Zimmer, and I doubt he’d half-ass his contribution to that legacy.

    Yes, good post.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Didn't EON have to apply pressure to Newman to incorporate the theme from Adele's song into the movie score? It gets a brief reprise when Bond arrives at the Macau casino but Newman got one of his minions to score it.

    I’m not aware of that: where did you hear that? I heard him being interviewed about it and he seemed more than happy.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, another thing is had Newman scored Goldeneye, the track ' A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg' might have been accepted by Eon....Just Maybe. Coz even in the 90s Newman was already a prominent Composer. Like Romer, Serra was young & somewhat obscure....so it was easy to bring another Composer to score a scene Serra had already scored...which to be honest was quite embarrassing. But i still like John Altman's 'Tank Chase Around St. Petersburg' & Eric Serra's 'A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg'.....I think it works as a listening experience. But of course, Altman's version was chosen coz it was more traditional.

    Another Example is Bill Conti's 'Runaway' from FYEO's score. Although, the track works as listening experience & and somehow fits Moore's Playful portrayal of Bond. I don't think Barry would have been that playful with that scene, considering FYEO was a more grounded Bond film. And Conti was the guy who scored Rocky....meaning he had a huge Profile already. So like Newman, he was definitely going to be given freedom....at least to a certain degree. One huge plus though, was Conti was able to work with Sheena Easton....so he weaved the title track into the score. Just like how Martin & Hamlisch did too to great effect. I recently started warming up to Michael Kamen's LTK'S score....and I couldn't help, but think had he used the title track in his score, it might have been instantly liked and would have been a better score. Strangely enough, I like Serra's score even without him weaving the title song into his score. One can only imagine how ultra-brilliant that score would have been if he did that....but still I like the score.

    I don’t think Runaway is particularly playful: it’s one of the more dramatic bits of music in that score.

    95% certain Newman was strongly resistant to incorporating Adele and Smith's songs into the scores

    Source?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyfall:_Original_Motion_Picture_Soundtrack

    That’s not helpful.
    Third paragraph under "Development" mentions the 'Komodo Dragon' trivia.

    It says EON insisted in inserting the title song, not that Newman “refused” to.

    Okay. Splitting hairs a little here.

    Anyway, the tradition in the great Bond scores is that the theme from the title song recurs during the film. Newman is not an idiot so he obviously knew this. And yet it was the producers who insisted he include it.

    A less precious composer than Newman would have wanted to work more closely with Adele and her composer to achieve a collaborative effort. That's what Barry did even when he hated the collaborators, such as A-ha.

    The SF score would have been elevated if Newman had done this.

    Ditto, the one brief reference to TWOTW in SP really pops out. Newman should have used it more.

    You’re kind of inventing a narrative in your head here.

    I find it so odd that folks construct these personality profiles based on so little. Cary is a really good guy and is lovely to everyone, Newman is ‘precious’ etc.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,399
    Getafix wrote: »
    Ditto, the one brief reference to TWOTW in SP really pops out. Newman should have used it more.

    such a beautiful melody in that song - shame it was only used in 1 scene....

    thats exactly what grinds my gears about the more recent scores - i feel like when the title theme and score are married together, it helps in giving that particular Bond film it's own unique identity.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    HASEROT wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Ditto, the one brief reference to TWOTW in SP really pops out. Newman should have used it more.

    such a beautiful melody in that song - shame it was only used in 1 scene.....

    Shame it was barely used in the song! :)
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    TLD is another Bond film where the weaving of songs into the score was really beneficial. We were lucky with 3 very Good songs. 'A-ha's 'The Living Daylights', The Pretenders' 'Where has everybody gone?' & 'If there was a man'.....and look how beautiful that score turned out to be....coz Barry was so nifty with his approach. 3 very good songs in one Bond film...what a way for Barry to leave the Bond franchise....Epic!....that's how to successfully score a Bond film. I've seen many Non-Bond fans who like TLD's score....it's that infectious.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,205
    HASEROT wrote: »
    thats exactly what grinds my gears about the more recent scores - i feel like when the title theme and score are married together, it helps in giving that particular Bond film it's own unique identity.

    Such statements are considered "baffling" around here, be careful. ;)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited January 2020 Posts: 8,179
    Getafix wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    I don’t think there’s any reason to think that, no.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    It's now highly likely that Eon might not have really liked Newman's effort too....but coz Newman is such a prominent Composer in Hollywood, it might have been a bit harder to dismiss him. Romer on the other Hand, is young and almost obscure....so it was easier to get rid of him. Am sure Eon had always known Romer could never create a suitable Bond score. But they just wanted to please Fukunaga by allowing Romer try....so Fukunaga himself would see the final output for himself, which would justify Eon's reason of dismissing Romer, without making Fukunaga unhappy.

    It may not have been super popular among the fan base, but I don’t see any reason as to why EON wouldn’t have liked Newman’s score and they certainly wouldn’t have had him come back for Spectre if that were the case. In fact, Skyfall earned the first Oscar nomination for Best Original Score since The Spy Who Loved Me. It may not have been Arnold or Barry, but Newman’s contributions (if unspectacular) fit very well within the parameters of what to expect from a Bond score. Romer, on the other hand, has a style that’s totally incongruous to Hollywood blockbusters, let alone a Bond film so it’s totally understandable that EON may not be happy with his take. It’s interesting that they’ve done as big of a 180 as possible going from Romer to the modern king of Hollywood blockbuster scores. I think we’ve got something special in store, especially if it’s true that Zimmer has been working on this for some time already. If there’s anyone who’d understand the iconic nature and importance of Bond scores in film history, it’d be Zimmer, and I doubt he’d half-ass his contribution to that legacy.

    Yes, good post.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Didn't EON have to apply pressure to Newman to incorporate the theme from Adele's song into the movie score? It gets a brief reprise when Bond arrives at the Macau casino but Newman got one of his minions to score it.

    I’m not aware of that: where did you hear that? I heard him being interviewed about it and he seemed more than happy.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Yeah, another thing is had Newman scored Goldeneye, the track ' A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg' might have been accepted by Eon....Just Maybe. Coz even in the 90s Newman was already a prominent Composer. Like Romer, Serra was young & somewhat obscure....so it was easy to bring another Composer to score a scene Serra had already scored...which to be honest was quite embarrassing. But i still like John Altman's 'Tank Chase Around St. Petersburg' & Eric Serra's 'A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg'.....I think it works as a listening experience. But of course, Altman's version was chosen coz it was more traditional.

    Another Example is Bill Conti's 'Runaway' from FYEO's score. Although, the track works as listening experience & and somehow fits Moore's Playful portrayal of Bond. I don't think Barry would have been that playful with that scene, considering FYEO was a more grounded Bond film. And Conti was the guy who scored Rocky....meaning he had a huge Profile already. So like Newman, he was definitely going to be given freedom....at least to a certain degree. One huge plus though, was Conti was able to work with Sheena Easton....so he weaved the title track into the score. Just like how Martin & Hamlisch did too to great effect. I recently started warming up to Michael Kamen's LTK'S score....and I couldn't help, but think had he used the title track in his score, it might have been instantly liked and would have been a better score. Strangely enough, I like Serra's score even without him weaving the title song into his score. One can only imagine how ultra-brilliant that score would have been if he did that....but still I like the score.

    I don’t think Runaway is particularly playful: it’s one of the more dramatic bits of music in that score.

    95% certain Newman was strongly resistant to incorporating Adele and Smith's songs into the scores

    Source?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyfall:_Original_Motion_Picture_Soundtrack

    That’s not helpful.
    Third paragraph under "Development" mentions the 'Komodo Dragon' trivia.

    It says EON insisted in inserting the title song, not that Newman “refused” to.

    Okay. Splitting hairs a little here.

    Anyway, the tradition in the great Bond scores is that the theme from the title song recurs during the film. Newman is not an idiot so he obviously knew this. And yet it was the producers who insisted he include it.

    A less precious composer than Newman would have wanted to work more closely with Adele and her composer to achieve a collaborative effort. That's what Barry did even when he hated the collaborators, such as A-ha.

    The SF score would have been elevated if Newman had done this.

    Ditto, the one brief reference to TWOTW in SP really pops out. Newman should have used it more.

    What you insist is a tradition is no longer the case. It hasn't been for a very long time now, long before Newman got the gig.

    Funny that you bring up A-ha, as that was the last time we had a title song weaved through the score before the streak broke with Michael Kamen's score for LTK not including the Gladys Knight song. Eric Serra not integrating the Tina Turner song. David Arnold almost had it with "Surrender" before EON ultimately relegated it to the end credits, leaving the official title song by Crow not included in the score. TWINE would mark the first time that the main title song was integrated with the score in 12 years. Followed by DAD having Madonna do the song with her own producers, and David Arnold didn't bother attempting to integrate it with his score. Then we get "You Know My Name", the first Bond title song weaved through the score after seven years. Then Jack White does his own thing, with the song not really appearing (aside from bits only fans have argued was Arnold attempting, but they're so blink and you miss it that they might as well not count). Thus we have Thomas Newman, who expressed a lot of enthusiasm and interest in working on the score to his buddy Sam Mendes. As pointed out earlier, the Adele song was produced very late in the process, so it wasn't possible to actually integrate it beyond the one appearance that EON requested. And there's nothing to support your made up narrative of Mendes trying to "resist" including the song, and I suspect you made that up in order to further find fuel for your dislike for his score because if there's one thing I've noticed about you @Getafix it's that you like to make a negative narrative over people you're not fans of in this series, like how you find any opportunity to dismiss Pierce Brosnan.

    Then there's SPECTRE. Supposedly the song was already in the can by January 2015, so if Newman wanted to weave the score beyond one scene he probably could have but for whatever reason that didn't play out. However, I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that he didn't out of laziness, a dislike for the franchise, or just some weird ego thing of not wanting to include tunes made by others into his work. Instead, I'm pointing the finger at EON. As everything I laid out in this post strongly shows they don't put a lot of stock into weaving the songs into the scores, at least until it's way too late to in the case of SF and SP, or not even bothering to at all like with LTK, GE, TND, DAD, and QOS. So it's certainly not something unique to Newman.

    In one of the James Bond & Friends podcast episodes Bill Koenig brought up an excellent point of how EON's approach to title song and score had changed by 1997. Originally they approached John Barry to score, however one of the big issues that resulted in him not wanting to return was that they didn't guarantee him producing the title song like he did in the past. And as we saw, they ultimately rejected the k.d. Lang song that David Arnold actually produced. That's what John Barry didn't want to deal with, and why he never came back. After the issues that came about with A-Ha, EON seems to have become content to allow the artists the option of total creative control over the song as a way of enticing them for the gig. This would shut out composers from the process, with the three notable exceptions being "Surrender", TWINE, and YKMN.

    Given all this, I know better now to not set any expectations for a score weaving the title song throughout the whole work. That's now a thing of the past from 1962-1987. Anything after that was just an exception. Maybe when Gregg Wilson gets promoted to producing with his aunt he'll be insisting that the artists collaborate with the composers to get the classic scores we used to get in the first half of the franchise's lifespan. Or maybe not. At this point, it's all on EON.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    In one of the James Bond & Friends podcast episodes Bill Koenig brought up an excellent point of how EON's approach to title song and score had changed by 1997. Originally they approached John Barry to score, however one of the big issues that resulted in him not wanting to return was that they didn't guarantee him producing the title song like he did in the past. And as we saw, they ultimately rejected the k.d. Lang song that David Arnold actually produced. That's what John Barry didn't want to deal with, and why he never came back. After the issues that came about with A-Ha, EON seems to have become content to allow the artists the option of total creative control over the song as a way of enticing them for the gig. This would shut out composers from the process, with the three notable exceptions being "Surrender", TWINE, and YKMN.

    thats EON "Chasing the Dragon" as it were - they now seem to consistently want that chart topping song as well... it seemed like after they struck gold with Sheena Easton with "For Your Eyes Only" and Duran Duran with "A View To A Kill" they now view that as a priority..
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2020 Posts: 16,344
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    TLD is another Bond film where the weaving of songs into the score was really beneficial. We were lucky with 3 very Good songs. 'A-ha's 'The Living Daylights', The Pretenders' 'Where has everybody gone?' & 'If there was a man'.....and look how beautiful that score turned out to be....coz Barry was so nifty with his approach. 3 very good songs in one Bond film...what a way for Barry to leave the Bond franchise....Epic!....that's how to successfully score a Bond film. I've seen many Non-Bond fans who like TLD's score....it's that infectious.

    It’s pretty fantastic, it’s true.
    HASEROT wrote: »
    In one of the James Bond & Friends podcast episodes Bill Koenig brought up an excellent point of how EON's approach to title song and score had changed by 1997. Originally they approached John Barry to score, however one of the big issues that resulted in him not wanting to return was that they didn't guarantee him producing the title song like he did in the past. And as we saw, they ultimately rejected the k.d. Lang song that David Arnold actually produced. That's what John Barry didn't want to deal with, and why he never came back. After the issues that came about with A-Ha, EON seems to have become content to allow the artists the option of total creative control over the song as a way of enticing them for the gig. This would shut out composers from the process, with the three notable exceptions being "Surrender", TWINE, and YKMN.

    thats EON "Chasing the Dragon" as it were - they now seem to consistently want that chart topping song as well... it seemed like after they struck gold with Sheena Easton with "For Your Eyes Only" and Duran Duran with "A View To A Kill" they now view that as a priority..

    I think as a publicity tool it’s undeniably a great asset. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that: it’s not as if the songs haven’t been put into the charts right from Barry’s version of the James Bond Theme.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    HASEROT wrote: »
    In one of the James Bond & Friends podcast episodes Bill Koenig brought up an excellent point of how EON's approach to title song and score had changed by 1997. Originally they approached John Barry to score, however one of the big issues that resulted in him not wanting to return was that they didn't guarantee him producing the title song like he did in the past. And as we saw, they ultimately rejected the k.d. Lang song that David Arnold actually produced. That's what John Barry didn't want to deal with, and why he never came back. After the issues that came about with A-Ha, EON seems to have become content to allow the artists the option of total creative control over the song as a way of enticing them for the gig. This would shut out composers from the process, with the three notable exceptions being "Surrender", TWINE, and YKMN.

    thats EON "Chasing the Dragon" as it were - they now seem to consistently want that chart topping song as well... it seemed like after they struck gold with Sheena Easton with "For Your Eyes Only" and Duran Duran with "A View To A Kill" they now view that as a priority..

    Yup. That's what really changed the game. Before AVTAK, the artists that John Barry typically worked with were strictly vocalists that served as song birds for his music. Then comes Duran Duran, who were actually artists and contributed to the creative process, which I don't think Barry ever had to deal with. However, since they trusted in Barry they were very open to his suggestions/arrangements which is why the collaboration turned out pretty well. Contrast that with A-Ha, who clashed creatively with Barry that there are now two different versions of the song, Barry's mix in the TLD soundtrack and A-Ha's preferred mix in their album. Also, none of the the composers that came after Barry had nearly the same clout he did.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    HASEROT wrote: »
    In one of the James Bond & Friends podcast episodes Bill Koenig brought up an excellent point of how EON's approach to title song and score had changed by 1997. Originally they approached John Barry to score, however one of the big issues that resulted in him not wanting to return was that they didn't guarantee him producing the title song like he did in the past. And as we saw, they ultimately rejected the k.d. Lang song that David Arnold actually produced. That's what John Barry didn't want to deal with, and why he never came back. After the issues that came about with A-Ha, EON seems to have become content to allow the artists the option of total creative control over the song as a way of enticing them for the gig. This would shut out composers from the process, with the three notable exceptions being "Surrender", TWINE, and YKMN.

    thats EON "Chasing the Dragon" as it were - they now seem to consistently want that chart topping song as well... it seemed like after they struck gold with Sheena Easton with "For Your Eyes Only" and Duran Duran with "A View To A Kill" they now view that as a priority..

    Yup. That's what really changed the game. Before AVTAK, the artists that John Barry typically worked with were strictly vocalists that served as song birds for his music. Then comes Duran Duran, who were actually artists and contributed to the creative process, which I don't think Barry ever had to deal with. However, since they trusted in Barry they were very open to his suggestions/arrangements which is why the collaboration turned out pretty well. Contrast that with A-Ha, who clashed creatively with Barry that there are now two different versions of the song, Barry's mix in the TLD soundtrack and A-Ha's preferred mix in their album. Also, none of the the composers that came after Barry had nearly the same clout he did.

    That's a good point, yes. Does anyone know what the highest charting song was before AVTAK?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    I'd assume "Live and Let Die" and "Nobody Does it Better", coincidentally non-Barry works.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2020 Posts: 16,344
    I'd assume "Live and Let Die" and "Nobody Does it Better", coincidentally non-Barry works.

    Yeah I don't know; it is interesting that although Barry was great his songs didn't quite hit the pop success that other ones did- those two are still amongst the top most popular Bond songs when you hear folks talk about them, and he even followed their leads slightly with his songs to slightly less success. AVTAK obviously was his biggest hit, but as you say that was a combined effort.
    Well, until 1994 when All The Time In The World got a re-release thanks to the Guinness ad! :)
  • 00Dalton700Dalton7 Portsmouth
    edited January 2020 Posts: 78
    And yet had Arnold been tasked with collaborating with an artist on QOS.
    We would’ve got No Good about goodbye as the title track and it would’ve been extremely well received over Another Way to Die.

    One is actually about the state of mind Bond is in after losing Vesper. (Regardless what anyone says including Arnold the song he and Bassey made is about Bond post Casino Royale). The other is a mess of music/lyrics that have no baring in the film. It could literally be used as a place holder on any Bond/action/spy film.

    Hell Celine Dion made a better “Bond song” for Deadpool 2!
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,399
    delete
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    TLD is another Bond film where the weaving of songs into the score was really beneficial. We were lucky with 3 very Good songs. 'A-ha's 'The Living Daylights', The Pretenders' 'Where has everybody gone?' & 'If there was a man'.....and look how beautiful that score turned out to be....coz Barry was so nifty with his approach. 3 very good songs in one Bond film...what a way for Barry to leave the Bond franchise....Epic!....that's how to successfully score a Bond film. I've seen many Non-Bond fans who like TLD's score....it's that infectious.

    It’s pretty fantastic, it’s true.
    HASEROT wrote: »
    In one of the James Bond & Friends podcast episodes Bill Koenig brought up an excellent point of how EON's approach to title song and score had changed by 1997. Originally they approached John Barry to score, however one of the big issues that resulted in him not wanting to return was that they didn't guarantee him producing the title song like he did in the past. And as we saw, they ultimately rejected the k.d. Lang song that David Arnold actually produced. That's what John Barry didn't want to deal with, and why he never came back. After the issues that came about with A-Ha, EON seems to have become content to allow the artists the option of total creative control over the song as a way of enticing them for the gig. This would shut out composers from the process, with the three notable exceptions being "Surrender", TWINE, and YKMN.

    thats EON "Chasing the Dragon" as it were - they now seem to consistently want that chart topping song as well... it seemed like after they struck gold with Sheena Easton with "For Your Eyes Only" and Duran Duran with "A View To A Kill" they now view that as a priority..

    I think as a publicity tool it’s undeniably a great asset. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that: it’s not as if the songs haven’t been put into the charts right from Barry’s version of the James Bond Theme.

    oh i personally dont really care one way or the other lol - i'm just calling it what it is..

    if they want to chase the top spot on the Billboard 100, hey go for it... i would just like to hear the song worked into the score more than it has been in recent films, thats all i am saying.
  • Posts: 3,164
    HASEROT wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    TLD is another Bond film where the weaving of songs into the score was really beneficial. We were lucky with 3 very Good songs. 'A-ha's 'The Living Daylights', The Pretenders' 'Where has everybody gone?' & 'If there was a man'.....and look how beautiful that score turned out to be....coz Barry was so nifty with his approach. 3 very good songs in one Bond film...what a way for Barry to leave the Bond franchise....Epic!....that's how to successfully score a Bond film. I've seen many Non-Bond fans who like TLD's score....it's that infectious.

    It’s pretty fantastic, it’s true.
    HASEROT wrote: »
    In one of the James Bond & Friends podcast episodes Bill Koenig brought up an excellent point of how EON's approach to title song and score had changed by 1997. Originally they approached John Barry to score, however one of the big issues that resulted in him not wanting to return was that they didn't guarantee him producing the title song like he did in the past. And as we saw, they ultimately rejected the k.d. Lang song that David Arnold actually produced. That's what John Barry didn't want to deal with, and why he never came back. After the issues that came about with A-Ha, EON seems to have become content to allow the artists the option of total creative control over the song as a way of enticing them for the gig. This would shut out composers from the process, with the three notable exceptions being "Surrender", TWINE, and YKMN.

    thats EON "Chasing the Dragon" as it were - they now seem to consistently want that chart topping song as well... it seemed like after they struck gold with Sheena Easton with "For Your Eyes Only" and Duran Duran with "A View To A Kill" they now view that as a priority..

    I think as a publicity tool it’s undeniably a great asset. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that: it’s not as if the songs haven’t been put into the charts right from Barry’s version of the James Bond Theme.

    oh i personally dont really care one way or the other lol - i'm just calling it what it is..

    if they want to chase the top spot on the Billboard 100, hey go for it... i would just like to hear the song worked into the score more than it has been in recent films, thats all i am saying.

    As I mentioned in the title song speculation thread, if the current speculation that Beyonce got it is correct, it may actually help with that very thing as her and Hans Zimmer have worked together just recently on The Lion King. Could bring back a level of composer involvement with the title song not seen since the Barry days.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,205
    antovolk wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    TLD is another Bond film where the weaving of songs into the score was really beneficial. We were lucky with 3 very Good songs. 'A-ha's 'The Living Daylights', The Pretenders' 'Where has everybody gone?' & 'If there was a man'.....and look how beautiful that score turned out to be....coz Barry was so nifty with his approach. 3 very good songs in one Bond film...what a way for Barry to leave the Bond franchise....Epic!....that's how to successfully score a Bond film. I've seen many Non-Bond fans who like TLD's score....it's that infectious.

    It’s pretty fantastic, it’s true.
    HASEROT wrote: »
    In one of the James Bond & Friends podcast episodes Bill Koenig brought up an excellent point of how EON's approach to title song and score had changed by 1997. Originally they approached John Barry to score, however one of the big issues that resulted in him not wanting to return was that they didn't guarantee him producing the title song like he did in the past. And as we saw, they ultimately rejected the k.d. Lang song that David Arnold actually produced. That's what John Barry didn't want to deal with, and why he never came back. After the issues that came about with A-Ha, EON seems to have become content to allow the artists the option of total creative control over the song as a way of enticing them for the gig. This would shut out composers from the process, with the three notable exceptions being "Surrender", TWINE, and YKMN.

    thats EON "Chasing the Dragon" as it were - they now seem to consistently want that chart topping song as well... it seemed like after they struck gold with Sheena Easton with "For Your Eyes Only" and Duran Duran with "A View To A Kill" they now view that as a priority..

    I think as a publicity tool it’s undeniably a great asset. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that: it’s not as if the songs haven’t been put into the charts right from Barry’s version of the James Bond Theme.

    oh i personally dont really care one way or the other lol - i'm just calling it what it is..

    if they want to chase the top spot on the Billboard 100, hey go for it... i would just like to hear the song worked into the score more than it has been in recent films, thats all i am saying.

    As I mentioned in the title song speculation thread, if the current speculation that Beyonce got it is correct, it may actually help with that very thing as her and Hans Zimmer have worked together just recently on The Lion King. Could bring back a level of composer involvement with the title song not seen since the Barry days.

    Sounds good to me!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2020 Posts: 16,344
    antovolk wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    TLD is another Bond film where the weaving of songs into the score was really beneficial. We were lucky with 3 very Good songs. 'A-ha's 'The Living Daylights', The Pretenders' 'Where has everybody gone?' & 'If there was a man'.....and look how beautiful that score turned out to be....coz Barry was so nifty with his approach. 3 very good songs in one Bond film...what a way for Barry to leave the Bond franchise....Epic!....that's how to successfully score a Bond film. I've seen many Non-Bond fans who like TLD's score....it's that infectious.

    It’s pretty fantastic, it’s true.
    HASEROT wrote: »
    In one of the James Bond & Friends podcast episodes Bill Koenig brought up an excellent point of how EON's approach to title song and score had changed by 1997. Originally they approached John Barry to score, however one of the big issues that resulted in him not wanting to return was that they didn't guarantee him producing the title song like he did in the past. And as we saw, they ultimately rejected the k.d. Lang song that David Arnold actually produced. That's what John Barry didn't want to deal with, and why he never came back. After the issues that came about with A-Ha, EON seems to have become content to allow the artists the option of total creative control over the song as a way of enticing them for the gig. This would shut out composers from the process, with the three notable exceptions being "Surrender", TWINE, and YKMN.

    thats EON "Chasing the Dragon" as it were - they now seem to consistently want that chart topping song as well... it seemed like after they struck gold with Sheena Easton with "For Your Eyes Only" and Duran Duran with "A View To A Kill" they now view that as a priority..

    I think as a publicity tool it’s undeniably a great asset. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that: it’s not as if the songs haven’t been put into the charts right from Barry’s version of the James Bond Theme.

    oh i personally dont really care one way or the other lol - i'm just calling it what it is..

    if they want to chase the top spot on the Billboard 100, hey go for it... i would just like to hear the song worked into the score more than it has been in recent films, thats all i am saying.

    As I mentioned in the title song speculation thread, if the current speculation that Beyonce got it is correct, it may actually help with that very thing as her and Hans Zimmer have worked together just recently on The Lion King. Could bring back a level of composer involvement with the title song not seen since the Barry days.

    He does actually do the occasional bit of song writing too of course; which not all movie composers seem to do.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,537
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I heard Zimmer has been working on NTTD for a month. So probably at least a month. I'm not worried about him having enough time.

    I imagine it’s likely even longer if they’re already in recording sessions.
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    This was the same person who first reported te news that Hans Zimmer was connected to NTTD:
    http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=fanlatest_comments

    [In respect to why Zimmer isn't scoring Tenet] Because as I said, Tenet was never about scheduling conflict...

    And Hans definitely didn't start Bond just now, but more like more than a month ago. And about being "busy", WW84 & Top Gun are finished or about to be.

    I saw him live in Sydney at the end of last year, and while speaking about his upcoming projects, he mentioned he was next working on a big top secret gig due out next year and that it was something he'd dreamed of working on. He was practically giddy talking about it, even bouncing around on his piano stool. He seemed genuinely excited about it.

    I'd heard the Romer rumours, and was pretty certain he was referring to NTTD. It was the only other big 2020 release he wasn't attached to.

    If NTTD is the mystery project here then he’s likely been at it for a few months (and probably doing much of it himself if it is a dream project).

    Although we can't say for sure but from what @Red_Snow has said that he said at the concert he attended, that it all seems too much of coincidence not to be NTTD.

    I mean this is the most prolific composer in Hollywood, the go to guy for many big directors and for Zimmer to say he is working on a dream project it has to be something very special for him.

    He has already done plenty of big franchises so this being Bond he is talking about seems a definite to me

    Even a big name, Zimmer must be in awe of Barry and also the heritage of Bond and how important music is to the series, I can imagine a project like this would have Hans as giddy as a schoolboy.

    I can imagine it must have been amazing experience seeing him live @Red_Snow

    I for one are most excited to hear a Hans Zimmer Bond score.

    @Shardlake It was amazing seeing him live! He may receive the main credit on the poster, but after just about each song he brought a band member forward and spoke about their working relationship and creating the piece about to be played. He had a real passion and enthusiasm for his profession, and it very much felt like he and his band were a family.

    I would highly recommend seeing him live if he's ever in your neck of the woods.



  • edited January 2020 Posts: 11,425
    antovolk wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    TLD is another Bond film where the weaving of songs into the score was really beneficial. We were lucky with 3 very Good songs. 'A-ha's 'The Living Daylights', The Pretenders' 'Where has everybody gone?' & 'If there was a man'.....and look how beautiful that score turned out to be....coz Barry was so nifty with his approach. 3 very good songs in one Bond film...what a way for Barry to leave the Bond franchise....Epic!....that's how to successfully score a Bond film. I've seen many Non-Bond fans who like TLD's score....it's that infectious.

    It’s pretty fantastic, it’s true.
    HASEROT wrote: »
    In one of the James Bond & Friends podcast episodes Bill Koenig brought up an excellent point of how EON's approach to title song and score had changed by 1997. Originally they approached John Barry to score, however one of the big issues that resulted in him not wanting to return was that they didn't guarantee him producing the title song like he did in the past. And as we saw, they ultimately rejected the k.d. Lang song that David Arnold actually produced. That's what John Barry didn't want to deal with, and why he never came back. After the issues that came about with A-Ha, EON seems to have become content to allow the artists the option of total creative control over the song as a way of enticing them for the gig. This would shut out composers from the process, with the three notable exceptions being "Surrender", TWINE, and YKMN.

    thats EON "Chasing the Dragon" as it were - they now seem to consistently want that chart topping song as well... it seemed like after they struck gold with Sheena Easton with "For Your Eyes Only" and Duran Duran with "A View To A Kill" they now view that as a priority..

    I think as a publicity tool it’s undeniably a great asset. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that: it’s not as if the songs haven’t been put into the charts right from Barry’s version of the James Bond Theme.

    oh i personally dont really care one way or the other lol - i'm just calling it what it is..

    if they want to chase the top spot on the Billboard 100, hey go for it... i would just like to hear the song worked into the score more than it has been in recent films, thats all i am saying.

    As I mentioned in the title song speculation thread, if the current speculation that Beyonce got it is correct, it may actually help with that very thing as her and Hans Zimmer have worked together just recently on The Lion King. Could bring back a level of composer involvement with the title song not seen since the Barry days.

    Sounds good to me!

    Not super keen on Beyonce. And is it really wise after she did an Austin Powers movie?

    It seems incredible now that A-ha were so resistant to collaborating with John Barry. It suggests incredible ignorance and immaturity on their part (although I love their song - both versions actually).

    So many artists would have jumped at the chance to work with Barry. And I think these days A-ha are a bit more respectful of the Barry version.

    I can see that EON probably value a hit song over weaving it into the score. The success of Adele's SF undoubtedly contributed significantly to the success of that film.

    But it's obviously not totally unimportant to them as they did still ask Newman to include it in his score.

    So there's a slight contradiction there to the notion that EON simply don't care.

    As someone pointed out above as well, Arnold did it twice - on TWINE and CR - in recent times. And almost managed to do it on TND. So the idea
    of combining song and score is clearly not dead.

    The difference is that Arnold is a known collaborator with a respected track record of working with other artists and performers on their songs. And Newman isn't.



  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    Getafix wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    TLD is another Bond film where the weaving of songs into the score was really beneficial. We were lucky with 3 very Good songs. 'A-ha's 'The Living Daylights', The Pretenders' 'Where has everybody gone?' & 'If there was a man'.....and look how beautiful that score turned out to be....coz Barry was so nifty with his approach. 3 very good songs in one Bond film...what a way for Barry to leave the Bond franchise....Epic!....that's how to successfully score a Bond film. I've seen many Non-Bond fans who like TLD's score....it's that infectious.

    It’s pretty fantastic, it’s true.
    HASEROT wrote: »
    In one of the James Bond & Friends podcast episodes Bill Koenig brought up an excellent point of how EON's approach to title song and score had changed by 1997. Originally they approached John Barry to score, however one of the big issues that resulted in him not wanting to return was that they didn't guarantee him producing the title song like he did in the past. And as we saw, they ultimately rejected the k.d. Lang song that David Arnold actually produced. That's what John Barry didn't want to deal with, and why he never came back. After the issues that came about with A-Ha, EON seems to have become content to allow the artists the option of total creative control over the song as a way of enticing them for the gig. This would shut out composers from the process, with the three notable exceptions being "Surrender", TWINE, and YKMN.

    thats EON "Chasing the Dragon" as it were - they now seem to consistently want that chart topping song as well... it seemed like after they struck gold with Sheena Easton with "For Your Eyes Only" and Duran Duran with "A View To A Kill" they now view that as a priority..

    I think as a publicity tool it’s undeniably a great asset. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that: it’s not as if the songs haven’t been put into the charts right from Barry’s version of the James Bond Theme.

    oh i personally dont really care one way or the other lol - i'm just calling it what it is..

    if they want to chase the top spot on the Billboard 100, hey go for it... i would just like to hear the song worked into the score more than it has been in recent films, thats all i am saying.

    As I mentioned in the title song speculation thread, if the current speculation that Beyonce got it is correct, it may actually help with that very thing as her and Hans Zimmer have worked together just recently on The Lion King. Could bring back a level of composer involvement with the title song not seen since the Barry days.

    Sounds good to me!

    Not super keen on Beyonce. And is it really wise after she did an Austin Powers movie?



    Well we already got Madonna! :)
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Newman doesn't strike me as someone who's into Rock/Pop music. If he listened to such music, am sure it would have inspired him to work with an artist.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    But, AGAIN, as it’s been pointed out countless times, the Adele song was recorded very late in production that would have made it unlikely to appear weaves through the whole film. Not Newman’s fault, which you seem to keep giving him and yet make no comment on Kamen and Serra.

    And EON had sat on the Sam Smith song for a good nine months before actually putting it out there, so if they wanted the song more woven in SP than Adele’s was they could have requested that... and yet they didn’t.
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