NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • DrClatterhandDrClatterhand United Kingdom
    Posts: 349
    Zekidk wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    @Zekidk, that Zimmer is very professional in justifying what he does is in no way an indication of the quality.
    I never said that. But they were discussing finding the "emotional core" - and this is where I think he is a genius. I used that specific segment in a montage I did for my son. I only later realised that Zimmer was thinking of his relationship with his own son when he wrote it. Having him onboard a Bond production is a dream come true for me. Every movie with him in charge of the score, is an elevation. Sometimes I rewatch movies like Gladiator or Da Vinci Code, just because of the music. Not even John Williams can make me do that.

    Excellent post. I fully agree. It's unbelievable that fans are moaning about his appointment. He's an absolute gift to the franchise. This will score will be phenomenal.
  • Posts: 377
    While i'm not holding my breath that there will even be a gunbarrel at the start of NTTD i would love to hear how Zimmer will score it if we do get one
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Zekidk wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    @Zekidk, that Zimmer is very professional in justifying what he does is in no way an indication of the quality.
    I never said that. But they were discussing finding the "emotional core" - and this is where I think he is a genius. I used that specific segment in a montage I did for my son. I only later realised that Zimmer was thinking of his relationship with his own son when he wrote it. Having him onboard a Bond production is a dream come true for me. Every movie with him in charge of the score, is an elevation. Sometimes I rewatch movies like Gladiator or Da Vinci Code, just because of the music. Not even John Williams can make me do that.

    Exactly....Zimmer's scores are like movies of their own. That's why he's as popular as a film director....coz his scores are almost palpable, so it makes the listener curious to know more about the Composer. And true, I don't think John Williams is that consistent....I only like few of his scores. Sometimes I even forget he composed that lovely Harry Potter theme.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 5,767
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Zimmer, eh? Welp, we all know what this means:

    Nolan is a lead-pipe cinch for B26.

    Aren't you a little fast with that conclusion? Zimmer isn't locked in some partnership with Nolan, is he? He isn't even scoring Tenet. Nolan isn't doing the next X-Men film either, as far as I can tell.

    At the same time, Nolan hasn't had talks about the X-Men franchise, but he has talked with the producers of the Bond films. Now, that doesn't mean he's a surefire choice for Bond 26, but I wouldn't be surprised if he meets BB and MGW again after Craig's tenure is officially done. Whether they want him too is something else.

    But this is not the Bond 26 topic, I digress. Excellent post there, @DarthDimi, about Zimmer. I think that he as a composer can adapt to the needs of the films he's scoring. It's clear Nolan likes a very moody, minimalist soundscape with his films and Zimmer delivered that. It's a far cry from his melodic work for The Lion King or some themes in Pirates, or the epicness of a Gladiator.

    And as a final thought, we know that the producers know what they want from a Bond film and have certain expectations about the score. If BB and MGW let Dan Romer go because his efforts were 'not Bond enough', do you all really think they let Zimmer compose something that does not sound melodic?

    Exactly!
    With all due respect, the Bond producers have gone on record that they don't know a lot about music. They do however as experienced producers realise that Boom Boom Zimmer will make the film be heard a block from the cinema, and that sells in the end more tickets than sounding Bondian or anything else. Otherwise there would be no reason not to go with Arnold again, who continuously confirmed he's ready at any minute for Bond. I'm not implying that Arnold would do a better job, I'm just applying simple logic.


    Zekidk wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    @Zekidk, that Zimmer is very professional in justifying what he does is in no way an indication of the quality.
    I never said that. But they were discussing finding the "emotional core" - and this is where I think he is a genius. I used that specific segment in a montage I did for my son. I only later realised that Zimmer was thinking of his relationship with his own son when he wrote it. Having him onboard a Bond production is a dream come true for me. Every movie with him in charge of the score, is an elevation. Sometimes I rewatch movies like Gladiator or Da Vinci Code, just because of the music. Not even John Williams can make me do that.

    Excellent post. I fully agree. It's unbelievable that fans are moaning about his appointment. He's an absolute gift to the franchise. This will score will be phenomenal.
    What I find unbelievable is how many people lift such a mediocre film music producer on such a high podest.

  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    @Zekidk, that Zimmer is very professional in justifying what he does is in no way an indication of the quality.
    I never said that. But they were discussing finding the "emotional core" - and this is where I think he is a genius. I used that specific segment in a montage I did for my son. I only later realised that Zimmer was thinking of his relationship with his own son when he wrote it. Having him onboard a Bond production is a dream come true for me. Every movie with him in charge of the score, is an elevation. Sometimes I rewatch movies like Gladiator or Da Vinci Code, just because of the music. Not even John Williams can make me do that.

    Exactly....Zimmer's scores are like movies of their own. That's why he's as popular as a film director....coz his scores are almost palpable, so it makes the listener curious to know more about the Composer. And true, I don't think John Williams is that consistent....I only like few of his scores. Sometimes I even forget he composed that lovely Harry Potter theme.

    Don't forget Star Wars, Superman, Raiders, E.T, Jaws, Jurassic Park, Schindlers List, JFK and so many more.

    Not consistent? I mean really...?
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    While i'm not holding my breath that there will even be a gunbarrel at the start of NTTD i would love to hear how Zimmer will score it if we do get one

    Why not? I think the fact that they ditched Romer for not being Bond enough is reason enough to assume that they want this film to be as Bondian as possible.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    @Zekidk, that Zimmer is very professional in justifying what he does is in no way an indication of the quality.
    I never said that. But they were discussing finding the "emotional core" - and this is where I think he is a genius. I used that specific segment in a montage I did for my son. I only later realised that Zimmer was thinking of his relationship with his own son when he wrote it. Having him onboard a Bond production is a dream come true for me. Every movie with him in charge of the score, is an elevation. Sometimes I rewatch movies like Gladiator or Da Vinci Code, just because of the music. Not even John Williams can make me do that.

    Exactly....Zimmer's scores are like movies of their own. That's why he's as popular as a film director....coz his scores are almost palpable, so it makes the listener curious to know more about the Composer. And true, I don't think John Williams is that consistent....I only like few of his scores. Sometimes I even forget he composed that lovely Harry Potter theme.

    Don't forget Star Wars, Superman, Raiders, E.T, Jaws, Jurassic Park, Schindlers List, JFK and so many more.

    Not consistent? I mean really...?

    Yeah, what am saying is, I don't like all his scores....and I don't like all his tracks from the scores i like. I like his jaw's theme obviously, Star wars(a bit), Raiders, Temple of Doom, Last Crusade, Crystal Skull, Saving private Ryan, Schindler's List(even if it's almost repetitive), The Patriot. If am buying a Zimmer score, I don't think twice....but to me a John Williams' score could easily be Hit or Miss.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 3,274
    boldfinger wrote: »
    What I find unbelievable is how many people lift such a mediocre film music producer on such a high podest.
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Zimmer looking at the musical history of Bond films doesn't change his style of production, nor his approach to composing.
    Rather biased, eh?.
    We don't know anything about his approach yet. What we do know is, that he often changes his approach. He experiments with sounds, instruments, the way they are recorded, etc. from movie to movie. His last five major scores (Lion King, Blade Runner 2049, Dunkirk, Inferno, Dawn of Justice) sound nothing alike. It takes more than a "mediocre" composer to make a simple ticking clock (!) an integral part of the score, like he did in Dunkirk, for example, where he also made a track that worked extremely well, by only using one simple note (!) (using 'the Shepard tone'):
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    Am sure if Newman had returned, learning from Mendes....he would have recycled SP's score for NTTD....even if Romer's score wasn't Bondian enough, at least it would have sounded more original. I think Zimmer's involvement should spark sheer excitement.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Zimmer is mediocre?
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 5,767
    Zekidk wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    What I find unbelievable is how many people lift such a mediocre film music producer on such a high podest.
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Zimmer looking at the musical history of Bond films doesn't change his style of production, nor his approach to composing.
    Rather biased, eh?.
    We don't know anything about his approach yet. What we do know is, that he often changes his approach. He experiments with sounds, instruments, the way they are recorded, etc. from movie to movie. His last five major scores (Lion King, Blade Runner 2049, Dunkirk, Inferno, Dawn of Justice) sound nothing alike. It takes more than a "mediocre" composer to make a simple ticking clock (!) an integral part of the score, like he did in Dunkirk, for example, where he also made a track that worked extremely well, by only using one simple note (!) (using 'the Shepard tone'):
    Biased? Well, sure, that´s the point of a thread where everyone offers his opinion. But I´m hardly as biased as those people shouting out prophecies about how good the score will be. I found my claims on sensible observations, and don´t spread false information, such as that the Shepard tone would be one single note. You clearly don´t read my posts, because I repeatedly stated that Zimmer has a number of classy ideas. My complaint about him is that those classy ideas most times don´t fill out more than 25% of the whole score, and the rest tends to be not just bland, but flatout boring. Yes, that is a biased opinion, just as any claim to the opposite is.
    What I mean with his approach doesn´t change is that no matter in what direction he goes, and I don´t question his ability to sound all kinds of ways, is that he still uses unsophisticated compositions and arrangements, he doesn´t all of a sudden apply musical depth like a classically trained composer, one can still hear that the emotional effect is calculated more than heartfelt. He uses all kinds of music production tricks to compensate for his lack of classical orchestra knowledge, he uses things like layering those Brraamm horns endlessly, or using ten drummers at once, in order to compensate, but that doesn´t change the basics he´s using, no matter what sound he goes for. And no, he´s not always layering parts a hundred times when he´s doing softer tracks, but he still applies the same basics. That is not biased, that is simple observation.





    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Am sure if Newman had returned, learning from Mendes....he would have recycled SP's score for NTTD....even if Romer's score wasn't Bondian enough, at least it would have sounded more original. I think Zimmer's involvement should spark sheer excitement.
    What kind of sense is such a statement supposed to make?
    First, you have no way of knowing if any parts of SP´s score would be recycled again. What makes you think Newman would ape Mendes and recycle music tracks? What reason is there to think like that?
    Second, why should any of this be a reason for excitement over Zimmer´s appointment?
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    My main issues with Zimmer's trailer-sounding scores are the aforementioned "braaaam" (which I honestly hope won't be a thing in NTTD as I find it very stupid and belonging to a horror movie) and the fact Zimmer has the tendency of finding a short rhytmic strings pattern and then he repeats it ad libitum throughout the track. It's not a bad thing per se and I can see why people like it but I personally find it very tiresome after a while.
    boldfinger wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Zimmer, eh? Welp, we all know what this means:

    Nolan is a lead-pipe cinch for B26.

    Aren't you a little fast with that conclusion? Zimmer isn't locked in some partnership with Nolan, is he? He isn't even scoring Tenet. Nolan isn't doing the next X-Men film either, as far as I can tell.

    At the same time, Nolan hasn't had talks about the X-Men franchise, but he has talked with the producers of the Bond films. Now, that doesn't mean he's a surefire choice for Bond 26, but I wouldn't be surprised if he meets BB and MGW again after Craig's tenure is officially done. Whether they want him too is something else.

    But this is not the Bond 26 topic, I digress. Excellent post there, @DarthDimi, about Zimmer. I think that he as a composer can adapt to the needs of the films he's scoring. It's clear Nolan likes a very moody, minimalist soundscape with his films and Zimmer delivered that. It's a far cry from his melodic work for The Lion King or some themes in Pirates, or the epicness of a Gladiator.

    And as a final thought, we know that the producers know what they want from a Bond film and have certain expectations about the score. If BB and MGW let Dan Romer go because his efforts were 'not Bond enough', do you all really think they let Zimmer compose something that does not sound melodic?

    Exactly!
    With all due respect, the Bond producers have gone on record that they don't know a lot about music. They do however as experienced producers realise that Boom Boom Zimmer will make the film be heard a block from the cinema, and that sells in the end more tickets than sounding Bondian or anything else. Otherwise there would be no reason not to go with Arnold again, who continuously confirmed he's ready at any minute for Bond. I'm not implying that Arnold would do a better job, I'm just applying simple logic.


    Zekidk wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    @Zekidk, that Zimmer is very professional in justifying what he does is in no way an indication of the quality.
    I never said that. But they were discussing finding the "emotional core" - and this is where I think he is a genius. I used that specific segment in a montage I did for my son. I only later realised that Zimmer was thinking of his relationship with his own son when he wrote it. Having him onboard a Bond production is a dream come true for me. Every movie with him in charge of the score, is an elevation. Sometimes I rewatch movies like Gladiator or Da Vinci Code, just because of the music. Not even John Williams can make me do that.

    Excellent post. I fully agree. It's unbelievable that fans are moaning about his appointment. He's an absolute gift to the franchise. This will score will be phenomenal.
    What I find unbelievable is how many people lift such a mediocre film music producer on such a high podest.

    +1.
    Ryan wrote: »
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    While i'm not holding my breath that there will even be a gunbarrel at the start of NTTD i would love to hear how Zimmer will score it if we do get one

    Why not? I think the fact that they ditched Romer for not being Bond enough is reason enough to assume that they want this film to be as Bondian as possible.

    I have the feeling that EON approved Romer only because that would make Fukunaga happy and they really wanted him on board but then he was ditched because he's not a popular composer like Newman or Zimmer.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I think Bond matters to Zimmer. And I believe the title song will be woven in, yes.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 3,274
    boldfinger wrote: »
    I found my claims on sensible observations

    And knowing that he changes his approach from movie to movie, you are still claiming this?
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Zimmer looking at the musical history of Bond films doesn't change his style of production, nor his approach to composing.

    Your other observation.... that he is "mediocre." That's like trying to argue that Joaquin Phoenix is a mediocre actor, IMO.

    Zimmer is universally praised in the entire industry for his skills, ingenuity, composing etc, but of course there will always be some haters out there.

    About that one note. It was the Joker-motif I had in mind, btw. Wrong video. My bad.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Romer is out, so we will never know, what his score would have been like. What I found on YouTube was alright, but did not sound Bondian. If he could not do it the way EON expected, he was dismissed. Pity for him, but that's the way it is. I am also quite positive about Zimmer, hopefully we will get a nice distrurbing theme for Safin, and Zimmer can do this, e.g. the Joker theme or the Electro theme. And, no, I don't want these themes recycled, but something fitting the character Safin. Also some action music would be nice (without "BRAAAAAMM" - did not know this word until I read it here, so we all can learn something new each and single day).
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,247
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    What I find unbelievable is how many people lift such a mediocre film music producer on such a high podest.
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Zimmer looking at the musical history of Bond films doesn't change his style of production, nor his approach to composing.
    Rather biased, eh?.
    We don't know anything about his approach yet. What we do know is, that he often changes his approach. He experiments with sounds, instruments, the way they are recorded, etc. from movie to movie. His last five major scores (Lion King, Blade Runner 2049, Dunkirk, Inferno, Dawn of Justice) sound nothing alike. It takes more than a "mediocre" composer to make a simple ticking clock (!) an integral part of the score, like he did in Dunkirk, for example, where he also made a track that worked extremely well, by only using one simple note (!) (using 'the Shepard tone'):
    Biased? Well, sure, that´s the point of a thread where everyone offers his opinion. But I´m hardly as biased as those people shouting out prophecies about how good the score will be. I found my claims on sensible observations, and don´t spread false information, such as that the Shepard tone would be one single note. You clearly don´t read my posts, because I repeatedly stated that Zimmer has a number of classy ideas. My complaint about him is that those classy ideas most times don´t fill out more than 25% of the whole score, and the rest tends to be not just bland, but flatout boring. Yes, that is a biased opinion, just as any claim to the opposite is.
    What I mean with his approach doesn´t change is that no matter in what direction he goes, and I don´t question his ability to sound all kinds of ways, is that he still uses unsophisticated compositions and arrangements, he doesn´t all of a sudden apply musical depth like a classically trained composer, one can still hear that the emotional effect is calculated more than heartfelt. He uses all kinds of music production tricks to compensate for his lack of classical orchestra knowledge, he uses things like layering those Brraamm horns endlessly, or using ten drummers at once, in order to compensate, but that doesn´t change the basics he´s using, no matter what sound he goes for. And no, he´s not always layering parts a hundred times when he´s doing softer tracks, but he still applies the same basics. That is not biased, that is simple observation.





    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Am sure if Newman had returned, learning from Mendes....he would have recycled SP's score for NTTD....even if Romer's score wasn't Bondian enough, at least it would have sounded more original. I think Zimmer's involvement should spark sheer excitement.
    What kind of sense is such a statement supposed to make?
    First, you have no way of knowing if any parts of SP´s score would be recycled again. What makes you think Newman would ape Mendes and recycle music tracks? What reason is there to think like that?
    Second, why should any of this be a reason for excitement over Zimmer´s appointment?

    Yeah, Coz I like Zimmer's work....and since Zimmer was announced, the news has really gone down well with a huge percentage of Bond & Movie fans. I've heard several people saying 'Oh! My!....Hans Zimmer is scoring the next James bond film....I can't wait'. And It's just a feeling I had, that if Newman scored NTTD....he would have most likely thrown in majority of SP's score in it. Can you blame me for thinking like that?. But thankfully, we're not going to witness that.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 5,767
    Zekidk wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    I found my claims on sensible observations

    And knowing that he changes his approach from movie to movie, you are still claiming this?
    Are you still sleeping? I explained what I meant at length. You can of course have a different opinion, but what´s the sense in answering to my post when you at the same time ignore what I wrote above?

    Zekidk wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Zimmer looking at the musical history of Bond films doesn't change his style of production, nor his approach to composing.

    Your other observation.... that he is "mediocre." That's like trying to argue that Joaquin Phoenix is a mediocre actor, IMO.

    Zimmer is universally praised in the entire industry for his skills, ingenuity, composing etc, but of course there will always be some haters out there.

    About that one note. It was the Joker-motif I had in mind, btw. Wrong video. My bad.
    "Zimmer is universally praised in the entire industry for his skills, ingenuity, composing etc". Where is that, except in promotion clips where everybody praises everybody else? Look, I get it, a lot of people from the audience like his music, and as I´ve said numerous times before, I don´t have a problem with that.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,343
    Walecs wrote: »
    My main issues with Zimmer's trailer-sounding scores are the aforementioned "braaaam" (which I honestly hope won't be a thing in NTTD as I find it very stupid and belonging to a horror movie)

    I know what you mean, although to be honest I think that sort of thing might actually be quite appropriate for a Bond movie! Big and brassy and enthusiastically slightly OOT and epically dramatic- that’s pretty right for a Bond, I’d say. With a bit of a tweak perhaps but it’s along the right lines (there are quite a few dramatic moments given big ‘braam’ish moments in Sherlock Holmes, but not in quite the same way as a Nolan film).
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    I think it's becoming clearer by the minute that we're all having different takes on this. While we've certainly got good debate going here, I want to urge all to not get too worked up over this yet. We haven't heard a single note of Zimmer's Bond score yet and we're still a few months away from enjoying the finished product. It's best not to get too carried away at this stage. Thank you.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    If I recall correctly we heard Donna Lucia and Backfire from Spectre in the first half of October. Maybe we'll get to listen to a track or two before the end of March.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,343
    Walecs wrote: »
    If I recall correctly we heard Donna Lucia and Backfire from Spectre in the first half of October. Maybe we'll get to listen to a track or two before the end of March.

    Fingers crossed, yeah. It almost doesn't seem that far away.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 3,274
    boldfinger wrote:
    "Zimmer is universally praised in the entire industry for his skills, ingenuity, composing etc". Where is that, except in promotion clips where everybody praises everybody else?
    If 239 award nominations and touring the world to sold-out shows isn't enough for you, here's a couple of links for you:

    "Quentin Tarantino hails Hans Zimmer score as defining film soundtrack of the decade"
    https://www.nme.com/en_au/news/film/quentin-tarantino-hails-hans-zimmer-score-as-defining-film-soundtrack-of-the-decade-2593065

    "‘Trust the maestro’: Ron Howard on having ultra-confident Hans Zimmer compose the music to ‘Inferno'"
    https://www.classicfm.com/radio/shows-presenters/saturday-night-movies/15-october-2016/

    Why would directors like Ridley Scott, Denis Villeneuve, Nolan etc - the cream of the crop - choose Zimmer as composer over another, if he is "mediocre" as you put it?
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,205
    Walecs wrote: »
    If I recall correctly we heard Donna Lucia and Backfire from Spectre in the first half of October. Maybe we'll get to listen to a track or two before the end of March.

    Correct, they premiered on BBC Radio at 9am in the morning. I remember it being the first thing I listened to in work. I had it blaring quite loudly in the studio!
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    That's interesting
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 831
    So cool. Their collaboration on Inception was just....so great. One of the best scores of the last decade. If we get the Bond version of that, wow.

    On that note (pun intended):

  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Lol, he cares so much about Bond that he won't even bother scoring it all by himself.
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