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Do you have any concerns or niggles about NTTD ,or are you full of confidence ?

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    I understand that, which is why I emphasized what SP grossed as opposed to what it made in profit. If Hollywood would stop spending frivolously then they’d make more of a profit, but I don’t work in Hollywood and I’m not trying to make a case to the writers guild that we can’t pay them any more because we barely made a profit. Gotta love Hollywood accounting.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,584
    HASEROT wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    As critically decisive as SP was, it’s still one of the highest grossing films of the Bond series. So it’s no surprise they’re not dropping it.

    but probably one of the least profitable when you factor in what it cost to make and market.. if you believe the reports from Sony/Columbia

    SP's PD was $300m (est.)

    NTTD's PD is $250m (est.)

    it'll be interesting to see where NTTD's total box office ends up.. i think with what they've spent, only being around $50m less than SP - anything less than what SP took i believe is troubling.... bottom line, as long as it turns profit (which it should) everyone wins, everyone's happy, but thats a number i'll be paying attention to for sure.

    Hadn't noticed you were back @HASEROT . Good to hear from you.
  • UnivexUnivex
    Posts: 6,710
    In the same way that interesting new writers/director are taking hold of genre movies such as the whodunits, some will likely want to have a go with Bond, conjuring an original plot inside the formula, something that doesn't rely on the personal vendetta rogue angle. That's the way to go, IMO. There is more to the Bond formula, they just have to think like Fleming would if he wanted to write a new book.
  • BounineBounine
    edited December 2019 Posts: 2,599
    The two things that might hinder to severely hinder my enjoyment of this movie are that this Nomi character seems like too much of a tiresome tough talker to me and excluding the Matera scene, the rest of the action comes across as a little generic and on the dull side to me like in Spectre. Of course I could be wrong but obviously this is the feeling that I just get at this point from the trailer.

    The personal aspect has become so played and boring but hopefully since this is Craig’s last, this will be the end of it.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,077
    Bounine wrote: »
    The two things that might hinder to severely hinder my enjoyment of this movie are that this Nomi character seems like too much of a tiresome tough talker to me and excluding the Matera scene, the rest of the action comes across as a little generic and on the dull side to me like in Spectre. Of course I could be wrong but obviously this is the feeling that I just get at this point from the trailer.

    The personal aspect has become so played and boring but hopefully since this is Craig’s last, this will be the end of it.

    The Nomi character certainly seems obnoxious from the bits in the trailer. Let's hope she's not a 'Mary Sue' type like a certain Star Wars 'empowered female' character....
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    The personal stuff is never going away unless this film is a disastrous flop, critically and financially.
  • OOWolfOOWolf Savannah
    Posts: 140
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    When i read this it makes me wish sometimes Craig should have left after Skyfall.
    It’s almolst as if they were out of ideas after that film

    Completely agree. I'm going to begin referring to Craig's era as the 'Dead Horse Era.'
    I think it was laziness, but if EON authentically wanted to reboot Spectre and Blofeld, it should have been done with a new lead. How ridiculous is it to make an era based on a continual hodge podge story of personal revenge, and just randomly decide to reintroduce a major classic element (Spectre), just because the rights have been acquired?
  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,278
    ossyjack wrote: »
    I was hoping to avoid seeing the trailer until nearer the release date but caught it between the football the other day and so have watched it a few more times since then.

    Honest opinion - this was a film I was concerned about having been let down by Spectre and everything I have heard going on since then hasn't inspired much confidence in the way it is going.

    Having seen the trailer my concerns have only increased. Watching it you can play Daniel Craig era bingo:

    Suspicion that Bond might be dead - check
    Bond not in active service/retired/disappeared - check
    Bond being considered as out of date, out of touch, the world has moved on etc - check
    Secrets and back-stories between Bond, Madeleine, Blofeld - check

    I agree with the earlier comments on here that there is far too much of this Bond going rogue, Bond settling old scores, personal angle stuff with Moneypenny and Q running around him.

    I yearn for a clean slate. Exciting pre-title sequence. Bond in London, receives a mission from M. Heads off to some exotic far flung location. Gradually unearths a masterplan or plot headed by a diabolical charismatic villain. Villain isn't a relative of Bond, or a traitor, or someone with a grudge. Just a psychopath or criminal genius who is thwarted by Bond's skills. Bond saves the world from ruin. The end.

    I'm now worried that this is going to be another big let down. The only parts of the trailer that remotely interest me are the return of Waltz as an incarcerated Blofeld and Remi Malek's decent looking villain.

    I suppose it is early days and it could turn out to be a good entry but this doesn't excite me at all. Another irritation is how long it has been since Spectre. If you are doing a sequel - which the presence of Madeleine and Blofeld suggests it is - then you don't wait 4.5 years to get it out - it needs to be done in 2-3 years maximum. Save the 4-5 year gaps between films for the relaunch with a new actor e.g. 1989-1995 and 2002-2006.

    Even the locations they are going to use just don't do it for me. Italian hill town - done to death in the Craig era in CR and QofS. Remote icy location - done to death. London - done to death. I miss the days of Rio, Tokyo, Cairo, San Francisco. Hopefully the Jamaica scenes will be decent.

    I don't relish a changing of the guard with a new actor playing 007 as I think stability in actors is important but I'm starting to look forward to a fresh start and hopefully ditch all this nonsense. Other than the second half of Casino Royale we can pretty much go all the way back to TND or TWINE for the last time Bond had a traditional mission and was sent out to do it free from going rogue or having a personal angle.

    One of the better posts I've seen here lately.

    I would love for a "clean slate" - standard stuff and wellknown territory as you describe, but only for a one off. After that they have to do something entirely different. For the Bond franchise not to become obsolete it has to evolve. One thing they could do is start catering more to the younger generation, meaning more outlandish stuff and escapism and less personal drama.
  • BounineBounine
    Posts: 2,599
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    Bounine wrote: »
    The two things that might hinder to severely hinder my enjoyment of this movie are that this Nomi character seems like too much of a tiresome tough talker to me and excluding the Matera scene, the rest of the action comes across as a little generic and on the dull side to me like in Spectre. Of course I could be wrong but obviously this is the feeling that I just get at this point from the trailer.

    The personal aspect has become so played and boring but hopefully since this is Craig’s last, this will be the end of it.

    The Nomi character certainly seems obnoxious from the bits in the trailer. Let's hope she's not a 'Mary Sue' type like a certain Star Wars 'empowered female' character....

    I hope I won’t be saying, god forbid they could have just had a normal but interesting character in Nomi. Who knows yet but I won’t be surprised at all if they’ve chosen to take this cliched route that I mentioned in my previous post. If she makes smart arse, tough talking comments in response to Bond’s derogatory remarks then this will be okay but if she just pulls them out of the air without having even been provoked then I won’t like her.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    This guy hate Bond? https://stevepafford.com/jamesbonddead/
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2019 Posts: 4,399
    OOWolf wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    When i read this it makes me wish sometimes Craig should have left after Skyfall.
    It’s almolst as if they were out of ideas after that film

    Completely agree. I'm going to begin referring to Craig's era as the 'Dead Horse Era.'
    I think it was laziness, but if EON authentically wanted to reboot Spectre and Blofeld, it should have been done with a new lead. How ridiculous is it to make an era based on a continual hodge podge story of personal revenge, and just randomly decide to reintroduce a major classic element (Spectre), just because the rights have been acquired?

    if you really stop and think about it, this happens during any lengthy Bond tenure - and they've always had a knack for taking what worked in one film, and then immediately trying to duplicate it's success with the next film.. TB/YOLT, TSWLM/MR, SF/SP .. so IMO, it's nothing really new were experiencing..
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    NicNac wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    As critically decisive as SP was, it’s still one of the highest grossing films of the Bond series. So it’s no surprise they’re not dropping it.

    but probably one of the least profitable when you factor in what it cost to make and market.. if you believe the reports from Sony/Columbia

    SP's PD was $300m (est.)

    NTTD's PD is $250m (est.)

    it'll be interesting to see where NTTD's total box office ends up.. i think with what they've spent, only being around $50m less than SP - anything less than what SP took i believe is troubling.... bottom line, as long as it turns profit (which it should) everyone wins, everyone's happy, but thats a number i'll be paying attention to for sure.

    Hadn't noticed you were back @HASEROT . Good to hear from you.

    thanks @NicNac ... my name was different for a while, for whatever reason when i logged in using twitter, it changed my user name to my twitter handle.. thankfully the mods just recently restored my name - feels good :)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited December 2019 Posts: 8,201
    HASEROT wrote: »
    OOWolf wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    When i read this it makes me wish sometimes Craig should have left after Skyfall.
    It’s almolst as if they were out of ideas after that film

    Completely agree. I'm going to begin referring to Craig's era as the 'Dead Horse Era.'
    I think it was laziness, but if EON authentically wanted to reboot Spectre and Blofeld, it should have been done with a new lead. How ridiculous is it to make an era based on a continual hodge podge story of personal revenge, and just randomly decide to reintroduce a major classic element (Spectre), just because the rights have been acquired?

    if you really stop and think about it, this happens during any lengthy Bond tenure - and they've always had a knack for taking what worked in one film, and then immediately trying to duplicate it's success with the next film.. TB/YOLT, TSWLM/MR, SF/SP .. so IMO, it's nothing really new were experiencing..

    You saying if this was 1979 we’d be complaining about how the Roger Moore films are just repeating the same beats?

    Stop being so reasonable!


    But yeah I agree. MR is practically a carbon copy of TSWLM, but despite that I enjoy it immensely. If NTTD pulls that off, then fine by me.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    I thought the increased silliness helped MR immensely where unlike TSWLM it was more aware of how stupid the whole thing was and ran with it. For example I never took Jaws as a credible threat, but I totally bought him when MR turned him into more of a Looney Tunes character. Plus none of that dramatic nonsense they attempted with Anya.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    If something closer to Fleming is what you wanted, then I can see how MR would peeve you.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    Birdleson wrote: »
    In 1979 that wasn't the aspect that pissed people off (at least people I knew, the film was financially a great success, though I don't remember anyone actually liking it except my dopey friend Rinde, his quote to me leaving the theatre being, gleefully and triumphantly, "The days of the PPK are over!", and by people I mean high school seniors as I was at the time). It was such an obvious retread it was hard to get too angsted up about it. The real disappointment was that they upped the silliness factor to an intolerable degree. That tends to be the problem when EON tries to replicate success; they take the wrong message away from the one that hit the mark. It wasn't the silliness that made SPY great, but that is what they hung their hat on and pushed to the extreme. Same with SF into SP, though what they were trying to repeat would be a little harder to define.

    In a way I hope NTTD really flops, so this forces a rethink from EON. When this usually happens, the next film tends to go back to Fleming, so we can get rid of this crappy trend of `Fleming re-imagined', retcon personal angst, Bond going rogue, Team MI6 involved in the action, etc.

    We won't get this reboot unless there is a drastic backlash against the new film.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,204
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That is one way off looking at it, but I personally don't want another substandard product (whether it is popular with the public or not) after a five year wait, following a film I seriously did not enjoy, which followed a reasonable three year gap. I want to leave the theatre walking on air, or at least pleased. I was more than happy with SF, but if I don't care for this next one, and it is followed by another, let's say, four year wait, that's 12 years without a satisfactory Bond film. No, I want NTTD to be great. I really feel for the members that didn't care for both SF and SP ( @Creasy47 , for one, but I know there are others). That is a long drought. In the span of time between QOS and NTTD, Cubby and Harry gave us DN, FRWL, GF, TB, YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, LALD and TMWTGG.

    Well said.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2019 Posts: 12,480
    With other things in my life piling on (in a bad way), including today, I can honestly say it cheers to think of seeing NTTD in the theatre in April. I do have total confidence in Cary. Because even if it is flawed and not a phenomenally great Bond film, it will still be interesting and beautifully filmed. So yeah, I still have no doubts about it. I think hiring him will prove to be one of the best decisions EON has made. I think the chances of it being a great Bond film, one I want to see again and again, are pretty high. Not worried.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    edited December 2019 Posts: 3,327
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That is one way off looking at it, but I personally don't want another substandard product (whether it is popular with the public or not) after a five year wait, following a film I seriously did not enjoy, which followed a reasonable three year gap. I want to leave the theatre walking on air, or at least pleased. I was more than happy with SF, but if I don't care for this next one, and it is followed by another, let's say, four year wait, that's 12 years without a satisfactory Bond film. No, I want NTTD to be great. I really feel for the members that didn't care for both SF and SP ( @Creasy47 , for one, but I know there are others). That is a long drought. In the span of time between QOS and NTTD, Cubby and Harry gave us DN, FRWL, GF, TB, YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, LALD and TMWTGG.

    It goes without saying I also want NTTD be a decent film too. There is nothing worse than being at the cinema to watch a Bond film and groan inside as it unfolds. The last time that happened was DAD. It's not a nice feeling.

    The fears are that this new film could be heading that way, and if so then the only positive outcome is the film flops commercially and critically, so this forces EON's hand to rethink the next one.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    On the other hand EON changed gears even though DAD was their biggest hit with Brosnan. Why wouldn’t they take a different route with the next actor like they did with Craig?
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,584
    Birdleson wrote: »
    In 1979 that wasn't the aspect that pissed people off (at least people I knew, the film was financially a great success, though I don't remember anyone actually liking it except my dopey friend Rinde, his quote to me leaving the theatre being, gleefully and triumphantly, "The days of the PPK are over!", and by people I mean high school seniors as I was at the time). It was such an obvious retread it was hard to get too angsted up about it. The real disappointment was that they upped the silliness factor to an intolerable degree. That tends to be the problem when EON tries to replicate success; they take the wrong message away from the one that hit the mark. It wasn't the silliness that made SPY great, but that is what they hung their hat on and pushed to the extreme. Same with SF into SP, though what they were trying to repeat would be a little harder to define.

    I agree with that. The best example I can recall of a second film being made based on what they thought worked best in the first film was Men In Black. The first was funny and fresh, so they took what they thought was the best parts of the first and amped it up (eg the talking pug). And of course it all went in to over kill.

    So, where SPY was a lively, fresh take on traditional Bond elements, MR built on its predecessors jokes and stunts and went too far over the top
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,045
    Did MR get bad reviews at the time?
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2019 Posts: 4,399
    vzok wrote: »
    Did MR get bad reviews at the time?

    it seemed to get good praise from critics at the time (i wasnt around then, so i can only surmize based on what little i can find on the internet in terms of critic reviews ACTUALLY from 1979)... but, as noted previously - not only did DAD set a Bond boxoffice record at the time, it also was praised by critics... it wasnt until after the fact that fans and critics looking back went "oh yeah, probably wasn't as good as we initially thought it was." ........ the hype monster can be very real....... sometimes we want something to be so good, that as fans/viewers, we'll ignore all the blemishes at first - but in time, those sore spots start to show.... i did that very thing with Punisher: War Zone.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,278
    HASEROT wrote: »
    it also was praised by critics... it wasnt until after the fact that fans and critics looking back went "oh yeah, probably wasn't as good as we initially thought it was."
    Same can be said about the overhyped SF.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    Zekidk wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    it also was praised by critics... it wasnt until after the fact that fans and critics looking back went "oh yeah, probably wasn't as good as we initially thought it was."
    Same can be said about the overhyped SF.

    Agreed. The only Bond film worthy of such praise in recent times is CR.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2019 Posts: 4,399
    Zekidk wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    it also was praised by critics... it wasnt until after the fact that fans and critics looking back went "oh yeah, probably wasn't as good as we initially thought it was."
    Same can be said about the overhyped SF.

    SF has only really dropped to a lot of us hardcore Bond fans... the general public or Casual Bond fans and critics still rate that movie really high.. so it's not really the same.. MR had a falling out with everyone across the board.

    and for the record i still think SF is in that top tier of great Bond movies.. its just not the best..
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    The only Bond film worthy of such praise in recent times is CR.

    its the only one out of the Craig era that has maintained it's high praise since release - it was loved then, and it's still loved now - CR was the definition of an instant classic...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited December 2019 Posts: 8,201
    I wouldn’t say DAD was well received at the time. It still got very mixed reviews, much like TND and TWINE. If anything Bond fans might have been more generous of DAD until the hype died down.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I wouldn’t say DAD was well received at the time. It still got very mixed reviews, much like TND and TWINE. If anything Bond fans might have been more generous of DAD until the hype died down.

    DAD was one of those films for me that when i saw it in theater, i kind of liked it - i wasn't blown away by it - but i tried to defend it by saying "it's stereotypical old campy Bond." ... but as time went on, the 'honeymoon phase' was over, and i started to notice a lot more that i disliked about it - and those dislikes started to outweigh it's few merits...
    .... but as time has gone on, i have grown beyond hating the movie - it is what it is.. i still strongly dislike it, but the way i see it - i would rather watch DAD than a lot of the crap i see coming into theaters these days.. it's not high praise, but probably the best praise i can give it lol.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    For what it’s with I think it’s Brosnan’s second best installment. At least unlike the dull TND and TWINE it has color and energy to it. I don’t like it, but I certainly don’t hate it.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2019 Posts: 4,399
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    For what it’s with I think it’s Brosnan’s second best installment. At least unlike the dull TND and TWINE it has color and energy to it. I don’t like it, but I certainly don’t hate it.

    see for almost those very reasons, TND is my 2nd favorite from Brosnan... the plot was nothing special - TSWLM updated for the 90s.. but i thought it was very streamlined, it didn't feel the need to be pretentious.. it did it's job, a very safe paint by numbers affair - but it's one i have no problem throwing on often, because of said reasons..

    TWINE is movie with a ton of potential, but ultimately can't decide which direction it wants to go - does it want to be more personal and focus on Bond as a character being manipulated by the villainess, or does it want to adhere to traditions and formula? - in the end, it tries to do both and ultimately feels like a Bond movie with an identity crisis... still tho, i think it's Broz's best all around performance as 007..
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