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  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    I see it as creating a few cars to please a few billioniares. Sorry about that, but I'm not nearly as thrilled as when I found a classical 300 SL roadster across the street in 1965 or 1966.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited September 2023 Posts: 2,533
    They have ruined the "new" minis................
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,649
    What don't you like about them? I think the Countryman in particular looks fairly smart.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I see it as creating a few cars to please a few billioniares. Sorry about that, but I'm not nearly as thrilled as when I found a classical 300 SL roadster across the street in 1965 or 1966.

    That doesn't take away it is (or rather, I find it) a beautiful design. But it is regrettable that too many car companies come up with these very limited runs of very expensive cars, that are only so expensive because they're limited in production number. I was hoping for a new Spider, and all we got was something nobody is going to truly enjoy, because nobody will have proper fun in a car that expensive.
    LucknFate wrote: »
    What don't you like about them? I think the Countryman in particular looks fairly smart.

    tbh to me they look like ... well, let me compare it to something else: a beautiful woman with a plastic bag over her head. You can see there should be beauty there, but it is obscured by unnatural lines. That's what it looks like to me. Not ugly, but certainly not as nice as it's predecessors.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited September 2023 Posts: 1,649
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I see it as creating a few cars to please a few billioniares. Sorry about that, but I'm not nearly as thrilled as when I found a classical 300 SL roadster across the street in 1965 or 1966.

    That doesn't take away it is (or rather, I find it) a beautiful design. But it is regrettable that too many car companies come up with these very limited runs of very expensive cars, that are only so expensive because they're limited in production number. I was hoping for a new Spider, and all we got was something nobody is going to truly enjoy, because nobody will have proper fun in a car that expensive.
    LucknFate wrote: »
    What don't you like about them? I think the Countryman in particular looks fairly smart.

    tbh to me they look like ... well, let me compare it to something else: a beautiful woman with a plastic bag over her head. You can see there should be beauty there, but it is obscured by unnatural lines. That's what it looks like to me. Not ugly, but certainly not as nice as it's predecessors.

    I see where youre coming from, in particular with the Cooper. It looks like they started with something clean and made it more complicated for the sake of it, and it doesn't quite work.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,649
    Fun fact: I'm an automotive journalist and just got back from testing 40 SUVs. This wasn't one of them, though. I'm intrigued that they're keeping both gas and EV versions.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    The "new" Mini wasn't a true Mini anyway.

    Morris_Mini-Minor_1959_%28621_AOK%29.jpg
    ^ That is a Mini.


    Mini-front_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqeN3WrhpUrAn7A3nxfvLiVa4RpXTgtSwA0Cj4_HphJ78.jpg
    ^ That isn't.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Fun fact: I'm an automotive journalist and just got back from testing 40 SUVs. This wasn't one of them, though. I'm intrigued that they're keeping both gas and EV versions.

    There's still plenty of countries that haven't got the proper infrastructure for EV's.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    The "new" Mini wasn't a true Mini anyway.

    Morris_Mini-Minor_1959_%28621_AOK%29.jpg
    ^ That is a Mini.


    Mini-front_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqeN3WrhpUrAn7A3nxfvLiVa4RpXTgtSwA0Cj4_HphJ78.jpg
    ^ That isn't.

    Of course not, none of the retro cars were 'true' - fill in the car make. The fiat 500 wasn't a 500, etc. But as they just revived the brand name, everything IS a 'true' mini, as long as it comes under the brand name. But aside from those trivialities, I did like the car's styling, and apparantly it's a lot of fun to drive. So at least it's a mini in spirit.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited September 2023 Posts: 1,649
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Fun fact: I'm an automotive journalist and just got back from testing 40 SUVs. This wasn't one of them, though. I'm intrigued that they're keeping both gas and EV versions.

    There's still plenty of countries that haven't got the proper infrastructure for EV's.

    Of course, and there are millions of used vehicles for those countries. Mini has already confirmed it's going to only sell EVs by 2030, so I'm surprised they decided the next few years are worth the investment of an ICE powertrain. If they weren't financed by BMW, and if they didn't get bigger over time, they'd be dead by now anyway.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2023 Posts: 16,423
    LucknFate wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I see it as creating a few cars to please a few billioniares. Sorry about that, but I'm not nearly as thrilled as when I found a classical 300 SL roadster across the street in 1965 or 1966.

    That doesn't take away it is (or rather, I find it) a beautiful design. But it is regrettable that too many car companies come up with these very limited runs of very expensive cars, that are only so expensive because they're limited in production number. I was hoping for a new Spider, and all we got was something nobody is going to truly enjoy, because nobody will have proper fun in a car that expensive.
    LucknFate wrote: »
    What don't you like about them? I think the Countryman in particular looks fairly smart.

    tbh to me they look like ... well, let me compare it to something else: a beautiful woman with a plastic bag over her head. You can see there should be beauty there, but it is obscured by unnatural lines. That's what it looks like to me. Not ugly, but certainly not as nice as it's predecessors.

    I see where youre coming from, in particular with the Cooper. It looks like they started with something clean and made it more complicated for the sake of it, and it doesn't quite work.

    I rather like the new Cooper there: I don't think it looks complicated, I think it looks nice and clean; especially compared to the old one. I like their updated aesthetic. Feels like they're taking the right notes from stuff like the Honda E.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited September 2023 Posts: 2,533
    LucknFate wrote: »
    What don't you like about them? I think the Countryman in particular looks fairly smart.

    The interior of the cars look awful compared to the previous one.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited September 2023 Posts: 2,533


    VW ID. GTI Concept
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,423
    I love that VW concept, it's very cool.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited September 2023 Posts: 13,978
    Is it still a Golf, or have they retired the badge? They are stopping short of calling it a Golf.

    Never mind, I just saw that the Golf has been discontinued. That's a shame. Same as with the Ford Fiesta, it's been such a recognisable car to see through it's generations, on the road.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,423
    It's smaller than a Golf.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    mtm wrote: »
    It's smaller than a Golf.

    So it's a polo?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,423
    It's slightly larger than a Polo. It's an ID.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    Is it still a Golf, or have they retired the badge? They are stopping short of calling it a Golf.

    Never mind, I just saw that the Golf has been discontinued.

    Where did you get that idea? It's still very much alive and kicking and continues to be the best-selling car in Germany (ahead of VW's small SUV/crossovers T-Roc and Tiguan) at above or in the latter case slightly below 40,000 new registrations through July of this year. No. 4 is Tesla's Model Y with about 30,000.

  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,533

    From massive grill to no grill from bmw ?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,423
    That is a massive kidney grille shape? But electric cars don't need radiators, so it kind of makes sense that it's not literally a grille.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,341
    I applaud BMW‘s direction. A brand new design philosophy. This car looks smaller than the current 3 series, it could even pass as an Alfa Romeo. The Neue Klasse in the 60ies was revolutionary for BMW, this looks like it will be as well. Let‘s see how much of it will make it into production.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    zebrafish wrote: »
    I applaud BMW‘s direction. A brand new design philosophy. This car looks smaller than the current 3 series, it could even pass as an Alfa Romeo. The Neue Klasse in the 60ies was revolutionary for BMW, this looks like it will be as well. Let‘s see how much of it will make it into production.

    I definitely second the (e)motion. I especially like the return to "greenhouses" around the passengers. I hate those arrow slits passing for windows in the most recent designs, including the Mercedes CLA prototype which otherwise looks nice...for a change. I want the glass area to be as large as possible, which means close to half of the total height of the body. One needn't emphasize the increased window size by marking the "belt line" as in the show car, but other than that, it goes into the right direction.

    The true question is what BMW will be charging for that. If it's more than, say, a Tesla Model Y (though I hate to hand over money to Elon Musk), it won't be my choice once I buy a new car. Which is nowhere imminent, by the way. Let them wait for another three years or so at least.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,423
    I did like that BMW concept when they first showed it a while ago. Has it changed since?
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    All in all, it feels like going from the piston-aircraft era to the jet-age. It's unstoppalbe and all in all a leap foreward, but it feels like we're losing a bit emotion in the process. As much as a DC3 inspires more than a boeing 777, or a steam engine inspires more than an electric locomotive.
    That said, I also applaude the direction BMW is taking this. I do like the design of the car, and wonder what it drives like. Personally, I don't need self-opening doors and most of the technology on board ( I HATE lane-assist), bt that doesn't mean the car won't be fun to drive. So, fingers crossed, and looking foreward to seeing more of it.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited September 2023 Posts: 2,533

    0 to 100 kph in 3 seconds
    I don't like the headlights ?
    It should have the 2024 ALL NEW Tesla Model 3 headlights.........and front ?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,423
    Wow, another new Lotus. That one's not bad.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,649
    mtm wrote: »
    Wow, another new Lotus. That one's not bad.

    I saw it in person in NYC at the reveal yesterday. It's not bad but to me it does very little to move any needle. Minimal inside without being interesting or innovative like a Tesla, and to my eye, looks like a knock-off Lamborghini from the exterior. Any brand could wear those shapes, this isn't a "Lotus EV" I would expect from the company that made the Esprit.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2023 Posts: 16,423
    The Esprit is a bit of an outlier though; those shapes haven't really been seen since. I thought the SUV they showed off recently looks much better in the metal than pics. I can see the Urus comparisons, but I find it nicer.
    Do you really find Teslas interesting? I think they're extremely bland, and quite tatty inside too. I would say this has way more personality, and looks better made too.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,649
    mtm wrote: »
    The Esprit is a bit of an outlier though; those shapes haven't really been seen since. I thought the SUV they showed off recently looks much better in the metal than pics. I can see the Urus comparisons, but I find it nicer.
    Do you really find Teslas interesting? I think they're extremely bland, and quite tatty inside too. I would say this has way more personality, and looks better made too.

    Fair, but this also isn't the EV trajectory I'd expect from the company that made the Elise! But to be fair, the Emeya and Eletre are significantly more advanced on many levels and quite a jump for the company's engineering. And for Teslas, I think conceptually they are interesting inside and out, but the manufacturing leaves a lot to be desired. And there are silly oversights, like the first-gen models not having blind-spot monitoring hardware etc. that normal companies wouldn't overlook. But from a what-people-want perspective, to have what's new, to be innovative, to feel like you're getting the latest technology, and quality performance for a decent price, I think Tesla offers more as an entire package for some than these Lotus cars. These Lotus cars should be what they are, plus something more. I can't say what, that's their job to define. Porsche succeeds at it, McLaren less so, but still. What is a Lotus if not just another sled-platform 300-mile sub 3.0-second to 60 mph EV that Lucid, Tesla, and soon Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, etc. will all offer to compete?
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