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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,627
    Lotus do have a struggle to redefine themselves more than most, as obviously the 'simplify and add lightness' is pretty tricky to do in the age of massive heavy batteries.
    But to me these are much more coherent and quality designs than the blobby nothingness of the Teslas, although neither of the Lotus EVs so far are up there with the gorgeous Emira.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,677
    mtm wrote: »
    Lotus do have a struggle to redefine themselves more than most, as obviously the 'simplify and add lightness' is pretty tricky to do in the age of massive heavy batteries.
    But to me these are much more coherent and quality designs than the blobby nothingness of the Teslas, although neither of the Lotus EVs so far are up there with the gorgeous Emira.

    I love the Emira. Classic Lotus for sure, and a clear indication they still have something up their sleeve. Hopefully it translates to the EV lineup. In a few years time we'll have solid state battery technology, as well as structural battery elements in the body potentially, that could open up some lightweighting and interesting structural opportunities for design that I think Lotus would be smart, and a natural choice, to pioneer.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,627
    Have you driven one? I've only had a sit in one, sadly! It's probably the car on sale at the moment I lust after the most.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited September 2023 Posts: 1,677
    I've only ridden in one briefly, no driving yet. There's a press pool of vehicles I can ask to drive, I typically don't get the fancier stuff just because there are no good parking garages near where I live and I'm not street parking a Lotus. I am headed to Germany next month to preview some of Porsche's new lineup, but I don't think there will be any significant driving there, either. I was just in California last week test driving 40 SUVs for my magazine's annual new SUV comparison, so I'm typically more average-consumer oriented. But I live in Brooklyn and don't drive very often unless it's with travel.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 14,003
    I prefer the older Lotus', like the Europa, Eclat, Excel, S1 Esprit and Elan, but for their more modern cars, the Evora was should. It should have been a Bond car, to give Aston a break.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,589
    2024 Volkswagen ID.7

    Volkswagen ID. X Performance Concept
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,677
    Drives me crazy to see a video that's just somebody reading the press release verbatim.

    I've seen the ID.7 in person. It's a Volkswagen... very boring. The ID.X version is more interesting but likely won't make it to production, or if it does, not the U.S., but we'll see. The old VW CC sedan and the Arteon look better and more future-forward imo.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,340
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Drives me crazy to see a video that's just somebody reading the press release verbatim.

    I've seen the ID.7 in person. It's a Volkswagen... very boring. The ID.X version is more interesting but likely won't make it to production, or if it does, not the U.S., but we'll see. The old VW CC sedan and the Arteon look better and more future-forward imo.

    That ID7 gives blandness and beeing average a whole new meaning. There's absolutely NOTHING that gives it character. An art in itself.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,627
    True, but then it's basically the new Passat, and that was hardly a car which stuck in the mind.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,589
    Aston DB5 sets pulses RACING in photo shoot to celebrate 60th birthday
    THE%20ASTON%20MARTIN%20DB5%20AT%2060_01.jpg?w=1952&h=1098
    THE%20ASTON%20MARTIN%20DB5%20AT%2060_03.jpg?w=1952&h=1098
    THE%20ASTON%20MARTIN%20DB5%20AT%2060_04.jpg?w=1952&h=1098
    THE%20ASTON%20MARTIN%20DB5%20AT%2060_08.jpg?w=1952&h=1098
    https://www.topgear.com/car-news/retro/aston-db5-sets-pulses-racing-photo-shoot-celebrate-60th-birthday
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,349
    I get tired of Aston Martin. How often can you drag another DB5 in front of the camera and set it next to the current top-of-the line model (which by the way is mostly in a drab grey and looks like the models before it)?
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,087
    zebrafish wrote: »
    I get tired of Aston Martin. How often can you drag another DB5 in front of the camera and set it next to the current top-of-the line model (which by the way is mostly in a drab grey and looks like the models before it)?
    Good point. It only goes to show that AM has no new ideas, designwise, and their 60-year old model is infinitely more pleasing to the eye than anything they have come up with, possibly excepting that other James Bond car, the Vantage V8.

    But the cars of the nineties and 2000s are about as diverse as the last 6 or 7 generations of Audi's models, i.e., not at all. You can't even tell which type appears in your rear view mirror intending to overtake you.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,340
    I don't really agree,

    I think there's more difference between the DB9 and 11 than there's ever bin in Porsche history:

    db11db9f34.jpg?auto=format&cs=tinysrgb&fit=clip&ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=60&w=1920

    db11db9side.jpg?auto=format&cs=tinysrgb&fit=clip&ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=60&w=1920

    db11db9r34.jpg?auto=format&cs=tinysrgb&fit=clip&ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=60&w=1920

    Not to mention their 1-77, valkyrie and whatnot. And earlier, of course, the V8 vantage from the seventies onward.

    Personally I think the DB9 is the best-looking car they ever came up with, even trumping the DB2/4, 5 and 6.

    The DBS Suerleggera from NNTD isn't even that good looking IMO.

    The real problem lies in the ever returning of the DB5. I didn't mind it beeing Bond's personal car, but even then we shouldn't see it that often, and it should've been treated with a bit more care. Why blow it up in SF, then have it returned in NTTD? I understand the want of NTTD encapsulating all earlier Bond-films, but the V8 would've done the job just as nicely.


  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,087
    @CommanderRoss

    I can relate to your critique of Porsche, but then I somehow was never enthused by Porsches even sixty years ago. Just being sort of appreciative of them producing a line of cars of consecutive looks, while neither desiring nor having the money to spare to buy one of them (if I had, I probably wouldn't do it anyway. There's better things to spend one's money on).

    But AM is really the same lately, and not much different from Porsche (or, for that matter) Audi in that regard.

    And I still think that your images prove that. They still look much the same. Not bad at all, but the same.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2023 Posts: 16,627
    When you say 'lately', it's not like DB2 through to DB6 were staggeringly different in looks back in the 50s/60s.

    Which one is this?

    19401117220_6ba47442c6_b.jpg
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,087
    I'd say a DB4. But mostly because it looks the most like a DB5 but doesn't have a registration plate having a final letter (A, for 1963, I think). Beautiful car, either way. Unlike the present Astons.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2023 Posts: 16,627
    Well it's on a personalised plate so that wouldn't be a clue, but it is indeed a DB4 GT. As was, funnily enough, James Bond's DB5 in Goldfinger, which started life as a DB4 GT too but became the DB5 prototype. They're almost indistinguishable from each other, and the DB6 was pretty much identical too, apart from different bumpers at the front and a more aerodynamic rear end.
    So it's not really a new phenomenon that Aston models look like each other and the shape evolves from one to the next.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,087
    mtm wrote: »
    Well it's on a personalised plate so that wouldn't be a clue, but it is indeed a DB4 GT. As was, funnily enough, James Bond's DB5 in Goldfinger, which started life as a DB4 GT too but became the DB5 prototype. They're almost indistinguishable from each other, and the DB6 was pretty much identical too, apart from different bumpers at the front and a more aerodynamic rear end.
    So it's not really a new phenomenon that Aston models look like each other and the shape evolves from one to the next.

    Yes, I guess that's quite normal...it's just that today they all pretend to show all the testoterone that they claim to extract from their possible purchasers. And I hate that. Just like I hate everything coming from Lamborghini, basically since the Miura. A sports car, for me, is a light and nimble vehicle, ideally a convertible, that you can enjoy driving in your free time. And at a price affordable for the (somewhat more affluent) average citizen, and not just for millionaires. Or make that billionaires these days.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,627
    The Miura is generally seen as the first supercar; they were always expensive and muscular.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited September 2023 Posts: 7,222
    I must say I agree @zebrafish and @j_w_pepper. They still look pretty good imo, and they're still my favourite non-Italian brand, together with Lotus perhaps, though that's the Bond fan in me talking I suppose.

    Thing is that AM have jumped on the bandwagon of making cars as aggressively-looking as possible, and while certain other German manufacturers are more guilty of this, AM does it too.

    For me the last real AM, if I'm permitted to call it that, was the DB7, or at the very least DAD's Vanquish. That combination of elegance and sportiness is what made them so special, but elegance I'm afraid has been lost on many car manufacturers these days.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,627
    I agree that I’m not keen on the aggressive looks of cars recently (BMW have gone overboard on that, although I think are starting to rein it in) but for some reason the DB12 works for me. I like the massive grille.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,589
    I like the DB12 as well except for the cheap looking gills and the c pillar.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,627
    I saw two of them on the Aston stand last weekend and one had a much nicer chrome grille than the other, which I think was just black and didn't look as good.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,589
    The grille looks good. Do you like the gills ? They look "unfinished" .They need a bit of chrome........
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,627
    Oh sorry, I misread what you put. I like a classic Aston gill, I must say.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,589
    The 2002 ASTON MARTIN VANQUISH has nice gills........
    nicholas-mee-silver-vanquish-full-res-92.jpg?fit=clip&w=2000&auto=format,compress&cs=srgb&q=85
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,589

    SS v S...............
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,627
    I find the CarWow guy intensely irritating, sadly. Not keen on the other fella driving at 180 and barely looking at the road or holding the wheel either.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,340
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Well it's on a personalised plate so that wouldn't be a clue, but it is indeed a DB4 GT. As was, funnily enough, James Bond's DB5 in Goldfinger, which started life as a DB4 GT too but became the DB5 prototype. They're almost indistinguishable from each other, and the DB6 was pretty much identical too, apart from different bumpers at the front and a more aerodynamic rear end.
    So it's not really a new phenomenon that Aston models look like each other and the shape evolves from one to the next.

    Yes, I guess that's quite normal...it's just that today they all pretend to show all the testoterone that they claim to extract from their possible purchasers. And I hate that. Just like I hate everything coming from Lamborghini, basically since the Miura. A sports car, for me, is a light and nimble vehicle, ideally a convertible, that you can enjoy driving in your free time. And at a price affordable for the (somewhat more affluent) average citizen, and not just for millionaires. Or make that billionaires these days.

    Well, Astons are supposed to be GT's, not sports cars. But cars you can drive great lengths in, taking you across countries at a decent pace. So they usually are a bit heavier. They're not the same class a Lambo's or Lotuses. Frerrari confuses it all by making both GT's an sportscars. And AM now has done the same with the Valkiry, 1-77 and the like. Personally, I don't like that direction. Form me the DB9 is the ultimate AM. Came across a DB12 yesterday (driving the opposite direction) and that Grille is huge, like a whaleshark. To my mind that is a completely different impression.

    Sure, they still look similar, as they all are front-engined GT's from AM. But so is a Ferrari Roma.

    I do understand why you think they're very similar, but that's just the design language and subject I think.


    This is also recent Aston (ok, Lagonda)

    taraf0.jpg
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited September 2023 Posts: 2,589


    Are these cars rubbish compared to the Rimac Nevera ?


    The Rimac Nevera seems so poised and refined compared to the petrol "rivals"
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