NTTD - Official Trailer Discussion Thread - First trailer OUT NOW (MINOR SPOILERS ALLOWED)

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  • edited February 2020 Posts: 12,473
    mtm wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    The standalone approach is a lot more friendly for creativity and longevity IMO. That being said, the biggest issue isn’t the continuity itself, but how poorly handled it is. SP’s retconning and forced childhood-connected drama is not a good way to go about continuity.

    Oh yeah absolutely: no arguments there. I don’t think you’ll find many folk who don’t think it was all a bit cack-handed the way Blofeld, in order to get revenge on James, was supposedly behind Silva’s mission to, er, get revenge...! :)
    But creativity? I don’t see any reason why running a thread through several films would make them less creative, and I doubt the Craig films are going to be considered as less long-lived than the other films just because they were linked.

    I say that because getting a blank slate every film gives you a wider range of possibilities. I’m not saying connected films can’t be creative, but if the goal is to link each film then to some degree they are bound to follow certain rules and stories. If they go with continuity approaches in the future, I’m hopeful next time they’ll do a better job mapping things out ahead of time. The light continuity in the 60s era was far better done because it flowed well from the start.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,420
    FoxRox wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    The standalone approach is a lot more friendly for creativity and longevity IMO. That being said, the biggest issue isn’t the continuity itself, but how poorly handled it is. SP’s retconning and forced childhood-connected drama is not a good way to go about continuity.

    Oh yeah absolutely: no arguments there. I don’t think you’ll find many folk who don’t think it was all a bit cack-handed the way Blofeld, in order to get revenge on James, was supposedly behind Silva’s mission to, er, get revenge...! :)
    But creativity? I don’t see any reason why running a thread through several films would make them less creative, and I doubt the Craig films are going to be considered as less long-lived than the other films just because they were linked.

    I say that because getting a blank slate every film gives you a wider range of possibilities.

    Well sure, but then you get more possibilities still if you dump this James Bond guy and all of the people he knows! :)
    I’m kidding of course, but there is a point which is that it’s all just degrees of how much you put in. I don’t think anyone was confused by the storyline in the Craig films because it wasn’t complex or anything you couldn’t figure out watching each film on its own. It just, as you say, could have done with being planned and handled better. But it’s no way as bad as we’ve just seen in the Star Wars films! :)
  • Posts: 12,473
    mtm wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    The standalone approach is a lot more friendly for creativity and longevity IMO. That being said, the biggest issue isn’t the continuity itself, but how poorly handled it is. SP’s retconning and forced childhood-connected drama is not a good way to go about continuity.

    Oh yeah absolutely: no arguments there. I don’t think you’ll find many folk who don’t think it was all a bit cack-handed the way Blofeld, in order to get revenge on James, was supposedly behind Silva’s mission to, er, get revenge...! :)
    But creativity? I don’t see any reason why running a thread through several films would make them less creative, and I doubt the Craig films are going to be considered as less long-lived than the other films just because they were linked.

    I say that because getting a blank slate every film gives you a wider range of possibilities.

    Well sure, but then you get more possibilities still if you dump this James Bond guy and all of the people he knows! :)
    I’m kidding of course, but there is a point which is that it’s all just degrees of how much you put in. I don’t think anyone was confused by the storyline in the Craig films because it wasn’t complex or anything you couldn’t figure out watching each film on its own. It just, as you say, could have done with being planned and handled better. But it’s no way as bad as we’ve just seen in the Star Wars films! :)

    Oh I’ll agree on that much. The new SW trilogy is about the worst continuity I’ve ever seen.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    It's great to think we're less than two months away now. It's almost hard to believe after how long this wait has felt
    What bit of promotion do we think is coming next?
  • Posts: 12,473
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    It's great to think we're less than two months away now. It's almost hard to believe after how long this wait has felt
    What bit of promotion do we think is coming next?

    You said it. When I think about how long this wait has been it is surreal and nice to know we’re finally almost there. Next I imagine is just the final tv spots and trailers. Possibly some leaks beginning to arrive.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    All of you need to remember that the only reason CR rebooted in the first place was so that Michael G Wilson could scratch an itch he had had since 1986, and that because they wanted it to take place in a contemporary time that meant ties to the previous films had to be severed. That's all there was to it, so there doesn't need to be another hard reboot.

    If anything, we may get a soft-reboot in the same manner as GE where we just meet a new Bond that already has a history somewhat comparable to his predecessors.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2020 Posts: 16,420
    All of you need to remember that the only reason CR rebooted in the first place was so that Michael G Wilson could scratch an itch he had had since 1986, and that because they wanted it to take place in a contemporary time that meant ties to the previous films had to be severed. That's all there was to it, so there doesn't need to be another hard reboot.

    If anything, we may get a soft-reboot in the same manner as GE where we just meet a new Bond that already has a history somewhat comparable to his predecessors.

    I could see them doing something different with the next Bond: just altering the setup somehow (in the same way we’ve had different versions of the same framework in the Gardner books vs. Deaver’s book vs. The comic series, for example) but I agree we won’t see him get his stripes again: I don’t think they’d want to challenge CR like that.
  • edited February 2020 Posts: 2,599
    mtm wrote: »
    Bounine wrote: »
    Bond 26 doesn’t need to be a reboot. Even with a different Bond, I would love if Ralph Nathaniel Twisleton-Wykeham-Fiennes and Wishaw stayed on. In terms of Harris, I don’t care either way. Bernard Lee and Desmond Llewelyn stayed on for several different Bonds. Anyway, we’re talking about actors who are hot property so obviously, even if Eon do want the supporting cast to stay, whether they would actually want to is the big question.

    Yes indeed: it's notable that this will be their third film and contracts for film series often come in threes don't they? I could imagine Whishaw not doing any more as he's at a high point in his career.

    It’s Fiennes as M who I really want to stay on for many films. He’s getting on too and this would be a regular gig for him when he’s older. Still, I realize that an actor like him will always have work but still... :)
    I can’t understand why everyone is talking about a new cast with with a new Bond unless it’s because the three of them (Fiennes, Wishaw and Harris), due to the fact that they’re successful to very successful actors, quite possibly have no interest in continuing with their roles in the Bond films after Craig has left which might very well be the case. Eon should at least try and keep them on even after Craig has left. I’m sick of all this Hollywood reboot stuff. How many times do we have to see Bruce Wayne emerge from a theatre into a back alley and then witness his parents being killed? Up until Casino Royale, the Bond films were never about reboots. We had a different actor play Bond and went along with the fact that he was the same spy and it was nice having Bernard Lee, Desmond Llewelyn and Lois Maxwell retain some of the history there by continuing their roles in the franchise.

    It’d be a bad idea to see Bond get his stripes again although I only wish they had have done it differently in a way that was relatively consistent with the literature. Regarding the dialogue of having trouble killing in cold blood at the beginning, this could have been done with Bond and M at some point later on in the film. It would have been cool to see Bond behind a rifle/sniper scope again having to kill the Japanese chap in New York.
  • Posts: 2,599
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    It's great to think we're less than two months away now. It's almost hard to believe after how long this wait has felt
    What bit of promotion do we think is coming next?

    You said it. When I think about how long this wait has been it is surreal and nice to know we’re finally almost there. Next I imagine is just the final tv spots and trailers. Possibly some leaks beginning to arrive.

    Yeah, it is weird. This past year has gone so quickly. I remember them talking on the radio in March 2019, almost a year ago, how they had just started filming. Seems like only a couple of months ago. Time goes faster the older one gets. :)
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    I agree, @Bounine. Fiennes M is very well introduced and formed over time. A good boss up front, obligated to represent his own bosses' interests, and learning his difficult position as M.

    Bond was ahead of him in this case, and with the Mexico events and after led him into an understanding that he can't know OO7's every action. It's counterproductive. Even so every M vents on Bond about those things. So Bond acts in spite of the bureaucrats and his orders at times. The song remains the same.

    Yeah Fiennes M is golden and should stick around, he's got legs in the role. The franchise always carries itself forward, witnesss 1995 and 2006. It's natural that continues from Dench to Fiennes and forward.

  • edited February 2020 Posts: 2,599
    I’d forgotten about how Dench remained for most of Craig’s tenure following her appearance in every film in the Brosnan era. Another example.

    After Bernard Lee, Fiennes is my favourite M. Eon should do their utmost to keep him on.
  • Posts: 2,599
    Something that has always bothered me a bit is that Bond has always respected M in the books but in the films he hasn’t. He never really spoke back to him. I remember in the Diamonds Are Forever novel, Bond acting a little cynical about the gangsters M was telling him about but generally the respect was there for the most part. I hope that respect will be present for NTTD and that the dialogue between these two will come across as two mature professionals talking which is the way it should be.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    To me Bond recognized M as a good boss in a new position. He was on a learning curve OO7 experienced firsthand and it played out logically through the events of Spectre. Good storytelling.

  • edited February 2020 Posts: 3,164
    Bounine wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Bounine wrote: »
    Bond 26 doesn’t need to be a reboot. Even with a different Bond, I would love if Ralph Nathaniel Twisleton-Wykeham-Fiennes and Wishaw stayed on. In terms of Harris, I don’t care either way. Bernard Lee and Desmond Llewelyn stayed on for several different Bonds. Anyway, we’re talking about actors who are hot property so obviously, even if Eon do want the supporting cast to stay, whether they would actually want to is the big question.

    Yes indeed: it's notable that this will be their third film and contracts for film series often come in threes don't they? I could imagine Whishaw not doing any more as he's at a high point in his career.

    It’s Fiennes as M who I really want to stay on for many films. He’s getting on too and this would be a regular gig for him when he’s older. Still, I realize that an actor like him will always have work but still... :)
    I can’t understand why everyone is talking about a new cast with with a new Bond unless it’s because the three of them (Fiennes, Wishaw and Harris), due to the fact that they’re successful to very successful actors, quite possibly have no interest in continuing with their roles in the Bond films after Craig has left which might very well be the case. Eon should at least try and keep them on even after Craig has left. I’m sick of all this Hollywood reboot stuff. How many times do we have to see Bruce Wayne emerge from a theatre into a back alley and then witness his parents being killed? Up until Casino Royale, the Bond films were never about reboots. We had a different actor play Bond and went along with the fact that he was the same spy and it was nice having Bernard Lee, Desmond Llewelyn and Lois Maxwell retain some of the history there by continuing their roles in the franchise.

    It’d be a bad idea to see Bond get his stripes again although I only wish they had have done it differently in a way that was relatively consistent with the literature. Regarding the dialogue of having trouble killing in cold blood at the beginning, this could have been done with Bond and M at some point later on in the film. It would have been cool to see Bond behind a rifle/sniper scope again having to kill the Japanese chap in New York.

    I know I mentioned this before but a reboot/new cast for 26 onwards doesn't mean having to do Casino Royale again.

    The main thing is establishing a clean break from the continuity of the Craig films, a sort of continuity the preceding 20 films did not have, which allowed for Q, MP and M to cross over between actors tenures.

    No Time To Die is being officially billed as a conclusion to the events that began in Casino, so continuting that in any way in 26 onwards would betray that idea.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2020 Posts: 16,420
    Bounine wrote: »
    Something that has always bothered me a bit is that Bond has always respected M in the books but in the films he hasn’t. He never really spoke back to him. I remember in the Diamonds Are Forever novel, Bond acting a little cynical about the gangsters M was telling him about but generally the respect was there for the most part. I hope that respect will be present for NTTD and that the dialogue between these two will come across as two mature professionals talking which is the way it should be.

    Oh I think it’s pretty clear he respected Dench M an awful lot: it’s the only time we’ve seen CraigBond cry, isn’t it? And the respect for Mallory was built very well in the inquiry shootout in Sf alone, I’d say.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Fiennes was set up so well in SF, and I was looking forward to many more years, over a variety of Bond's, with him. But I feel that they made some poor decisions with the character in SP. He came off as petulant, impotent, whiny and weak. I got zero sense that Bond respected him at all. I'd be happy to keep him on if they redirect and return him to the cocky, confident and semi-abrassive fellow we had in SF.
    Bounine wrote: »
    Something that has always bothered me a bit is that Bond has always respected M in the books but in the films he hasn’t. He never really spoke back to him. I remember in the Diamonds Are Forever novel, Bond acting a little cynical about the gangsters M was telling him about but generally the respect was there for the most part. I hope that respect will be present for NTTD and that the dialogue between these two will come across as two mature professionals talking which is the way it should be.

    Nailed it.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I think it's safe to say till we get the next Bernard Lee....Bond might keep on disrespecting M. Funny thing is , Lee was never involved in any field thing...and he was still very good....maybe coz he had a sort of insouciant attitude towards Bond....Lee's M was never concern about what Bond had for Breakfast.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,420
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Lee's M was never concern about what Bond had for Breakfast.

    He did send him to a health farm though! :)
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Lee's M was never concern about what Bond had for Breakfast.

    He did send him to a health farm though! :)

    :) True...to be fitter for more harrowing missions.
    ...I'd imagine.
  • Posts: 2,165
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think it's safe to say till we get the next Bernard Lee....Bond might keep on disrespecting M. Funny thing is , Lee was never involved in any field thing...and he was still very good....maybe coz he had a sort of insouciant attitude towards Bond....Lee's M was never concern about what Bond had for Breakfast.

    He was never involved in the field but he did travel around.... YOLT, TSWLM and Moonraker spring to mind.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,420
    Mallory wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think it's safe to say till we get the next Bernard Lee....Bond might keep on disrespecting M. Funny thing is , Lee was never involved in any field thing...and he was still very good....maybe coz he had a sort of insouciant attitude towards Bond....Lee's M was never concern about what Bond had for Breakfast.

    He was never involved in the field but he did travel around.... YOLT, TSWLM and Moonraker spring to mind.

    And whatever they got up to in Tokyo that time! :D
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Does anyone believe that the Craig films from CR to NTTD will act as a prequel to Dr. No and the rest of the franchise? I certainly hope this isn't the case but I have heard a lot of speculation surrounding this theory.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Does anyone believe that the Craig films from CR to NTTD will act as a prequel to Dr. No and the rest of the franchise?

    Definitely not. Deconstructing the character throughout 5 films doesn't mean making a prequel of the classic one.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Does anyone believe that the Craig films from CR to NTTD will act as a prequel to Dr. No and the rest of the franchise? I certainly hope this isn't the case but I have heard a lot of speculation surrounding this theory.

    That outcome can't possibly work.
    Dr.No is the person that introduces Bond to Spectre.
    Blofeld introduces himself to Bond in You Only Live Twice.
    If this did happen, it would effectively end the Bond series, and ruin every film beforehand.
  • Benny wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Does anyone believe that the Craig films from CR to NTTD will act as a prequel to Dr. No and the rest of the franchise? I certainly hope this isn't the case but I have heard a lot of speculation surrounding this theory.

    That outcome can't possibly work.
    Dr.No is the person that introduces Bond to Spectre.
    Blofeld introduces himself to Bond in You Only Live Twice.
    If this did happen, it would effectively end the Bond series, and ruin every film beforehand.

    Unless they were to go back and remake them ...
  • If it is attached to Bird of Prey, we will get it today.....though it's looking less likely.

    Which means there are no major releases to attach the trailer to. The next is 'A Quiet Place 2' and 'Mulan' - which both come out within a week or two of NTTD's release globally. So count them out.

    I thin the best bet would be 'The Invisible Man' (it looks sick) - which is a Universal release on February 28, 2020 - which means a release any time in the next 3 weeks.



    Also, the title song will be released around 4-6 weeks from the release date. I personally wouldn't be surprised if the song features int eh trailer to build up maximum hype.

    I think the Brit Award week will be very very busy for NTTD promotion......just a hunch though.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,341
    Does a trailer need to go with a film release at all? I would imagine it could also be released online alongside with Billie Eilish's title song. That will definitively reach more people than e.g. Bird of Prey.

    And what's the chance that the Superbowl teaser might actually be the last trailer we get before opening day?
  • Posts: 6,709
    zebrafish wrote: »
    And what's the chance that the Superbowl teaser might actually be the last trailer we get before opening day?

    I'm hoping that it is. I want to be surprised by this one. And I'm glad they didn't give me the choice, spoilers wise. Thank you, EON.

    I don't need to see anything else besides the film. Well, a poster would be nice. A nice poster, I mean.
  • Posts: 3,164
    zebrafish wrote: »
    Does a trailer need to go with a film release at all? I would imagine it could also be released online alongside with Billie Eilish's title song. That will definitively reach more people than e.g. Bird of Prey.

    And what's the chance that the Superbowl teaser might actually be the last trailer we get before opening day?

    It does. Doesn't mean it debuts/is shown only in front of a specific film and not online, but it's always an earmark of sorts for a studio planning the campaign. There's a reason the first trailer came out when it did in early Dec, it was two weeks before Star Wars and with the amount of other trailers also angling to be played with it (Black Widow, Mulan, Tenet etc) they decided to be the first out of the gate. So in other words, of course it'll be online but when it launches online is a strategic decision.
  • zebrafish wrote: »
    Does a trailer need to go with a film release at all? I would imagine it could also be released online alongside with Billie Eilish's title song. That will definitively reach more people than e.g. Bird of Prey.

    And what's the chance that the Superbowl teaser might actually be the last trailer we get before opening day?

    Films are released in cinemas. Where are the cinemagoing public you want to advertise to? The cinema. Of course these days online marketing runs alongside.
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