The What if Bond is modernized from a straight white male in the next film adventure?

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited December 5 Posts: 6,382
    The issue with how they did Blofeld in the '60s is that they teased it out over several films (fine as it went), but then Pleasance was such an underwhelming reveal that they had to invent the scar to seem more menacing! (And then he was saddled with the scar.)

    Maybe they should have kept Blofeld offscreen for all of YOLT too.

    Blofeld is tricky to get right because he's all cliches and tics and the cat...but not much of a character.

    They did try to give him more of a story with SP, to mixed results at best. I wish they hadn't saddled him with the scar too but just kept the cat, which is what the general audience remembers about Blofeld anyway.

    OHMSS was probably the best Blofeld, but that's because of the story (heraldry and snobbery), not because of anything about the character.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,343
    An older actor for James Bond? I know someone who might be interested...

  • edited December 5 Posts: 4,300
    Ludovico wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I suppose it's very much a case of never say never. It's not out of the realm of possibility we could get another 7 film Bond actor (unlikely as it seems now).
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I definitely think Spectre is coming back, too. Now they have the opportunity to plan it out better ahead of time, so there are no excuses now that the rights are secure to not do it really well.

    I think if they were to use SPECTRE it'd only be if they see a creative opportunity to include it. Otherwise there's no point of shoehorning it into a new era out of obligation. Blofeld's a tricky villain to get right anyway. Without some sort of personal element between him and Bond he's just another generic villain. I suppose they could play up the 'white whale' angle with Bond hell bent on getting him as per OHMSS, but even then I think you need more, and without Blofeld SPECTRE doesn't fully work.

    I wouldn't bet on them using it in the short term to be honest, but again never say never.

    I also can't see them pre-planning these stories out years in advance either. Why would they? That's never been how Bond films have been made, and it's certainly not how Fleming crafted his novels.

    The white whale obsession can be reversed: Blofeld can become obsessed about this MI6 agent that had thwarted his lucrative schemes one time too many. There were elements of this in SP, the stepbrother angle notwithstanding.

    I like that! And yes, to some extent that's there, but it can be used.

    There'd still have to be a deeper antagonism develop between the two during the story, but that idea could play nicely and be reflective of Blofeld in the YOLT book slowly going mad.
  • Posts: 15,229
    007HallY wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I suppose it's very much a case of never say never. It's not out of the realm of possibility we could get another 7 film Bond actor (unlikely as it seems now).
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I definitely think Spectre is coming back, too. Now they have the opportunity to plan it out better ahead of time, so there are no excuses now that the rights are secure to not do it really well.

    I think if they were to use SPECTRE it'd only be if they see a creative opportunity to include it. Otherwise there's no point of shoehorning it into a new era out of obligation. Blofeld's a tricky villain to get right anyway. Without some sort of personal element between him and Bond he's just another generic villain. I suppose they could play up the 'white whale' angle with Bond hell bent on getting him as per OHMSS, but even then I think you need more, and without Blofeld SPECTRE doesn't fully work.

    I wouldn't bet on them using it in the short term to be honest, but again never say never.

    I also can't see them pre-planning these stories out years in advance either. Why would they? That's never been how Bond films have been made, and it's certainly not how Fleming crafted his novels.

    The white whale obsession can be reversed: Blofeld can become obsessed about this MI6 agent that had thwarted his lucrative schemes one time too many. There were elements of this in SP, the stepbrother angle notwithstanding.

    I like that! And yes, to some extent that's there, but it can be used.

    There'd still have to be a deeper antagonism develop between the two during the story, but that idea could play nicely and be reflective of Blofeld in the YOLT book slowly going mad.

    Come to think of it, Silva was a bit of a Ahab towards M.

    Such antagonism could be developed by Bond over the films.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited December 8 Posts: 4,537
    Colin O'Donoghue (1981). 46 in 2027.
    Charlie Hunnam (April 1980). 47 in 2027. Positive thing be with Charlie is that also the 7th actor wil stil older then me.

    If you realy whant somebody from 1977 (49-50 in 2027) then it wil possible going to be Michael Fassbender or Orlando Bloom.

    Ilkka Villi (1975) born in Finland. 51/52 in 2027. He also stay model for game chacter.
    MV5BMjExNzIzNDI3NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNTMxNzk1ODE@._V1_.jpg

    2016_04_04_ilkka_1774-1.jpg



    MV5BNjhkODE3N2UtYzc3Ni00OWEwLTljZTMtOTZhNzA0MjE3YWVkXkEyXkFqcGc@._V1_.jpg
    Q and Bond

    Above picture is from this mini series:


    With Bond 26 there should return to more movies in les time, where it my opnion be more inportent that we get Bond 28 two years after Bond 27. If Bond 7 wil make 3 movies then the actor somewhere in his 40's is not problem. If Bond 7 made only 3 movies it give them more time to search for the 8th actor.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited December 8 Posts: 6,382
    I don't think the next Bond will only do three movies, no matter how much Bond numerologic fantasy happens within the fanbase.

    An unacceptable (to the public) Bond actor will be out in one or two films, as we've seen. The third film is usually the "golden" film--in terms of marketing--for a good Bond actor's tenure. (Brosnan is the exception in that he peaked early.)

    Four films is likely the minimum because of all the expense and effort involved in establishing a new Bond actor and getting him to that third film.
  • edited December 8 Posts: 1,448
    echo wrote: »
    I don't think the next Bond will only do three movies, no matter how much Bond numerologic fantasy happens within the fanbase.

    An unacceptable (to the public) Bond actor will be out in one or two films, as we've seen. The third film is usually the "golden" film--in terms of marketing--for a good Bond actor's tenure. (Brosnan is the exception in that he peaked early.)

    Four films is likely the minimum because of all the expense and effort involved in establishing a new Bond actor and getting him to that third film.

    The third one is the charm.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,917
    1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7.

    No EON Bond actor to date has done just 3. So it's a near surety I guess.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,382
    1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7.

    No EON Bond actor to date has done just 3. So it's a near surety I guess.

    Doubtful.
  • edited December 8 Posts: 980
    Early 50s? They'd be slow. Three films? I feel it in my bones.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,917
    The betting on that can start now.
  • Posts: 4,300
    Don't Bond actors tend to get contracts for three films when they first sign on though? In that case it's probably very likely a future actor could leave after three.
  • edited December 9 Posts: 16,223
    I believe the contracts tend to be three films with an option for a fourth. I think after a certain timeframe (maybe seven years) the contract would expire or need to re-negotiated. Pierce's era was spot on in getting four films in seven years. Dalton's expired during the delay of B17.
    I imagine whoever is cast as Bond next will probably sign for three films with the intention that his third film be made within a reasonable time. Then they'd negotiate anything after that.
    I could see him leaving after the third film, especially if the longer gaps continue.

  • Posts: 4,300
    I guess it depends. But it's conceivable that an actor could do those three films within about a 10 year span (so one film released every three years) and decides he wants to step down as opposed to renegotiate or take the fourth option. If the actor was satisfied with their Bond era it could hypothetically be a reason.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,186
    I think the next Bond might do 4 or 5. Also, in all honesty, Craig's Bond originally stopped at 4.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,602
    007HallY wrote: »
    I guess it depends. But it's conceivable that an actor could do those three films within about a 10 year span (so one film released every three years) and decides he wants to step down as opposed to renegotiate or take the fourth option. If the actor was satisfied with their Bond era it could hypothetically be a reason.

    Which is a good reason why the story about Dalton stepping down from doing a third whilst Eon wanted him seems a little dubious.
  • edited December 9 Posts: 4,300
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I guess it depends. But it's conceivable that an actor could do those three films within about a 10 year span (so one film released every three years) and decides he wants to step down as opposed to renegotiate or take the fourth option. If the actor was satisfied with their Bond era it could hypothetically be a reason.

    Which is a good reason why the story about Dalton stepping down from doing a third whilst Eon wanted him seems a little dubious.

    I don't know. The story I've always heard is his contract expired so they had to renegotiate it. EON wanted him to do a few more, but Dalton only wanted to commit to one supposedly.

    I guess it makes sense that after a six year gap they either would have wanted the incumbent Bond to continue on for a few more (a sort of 'business as usual' approach to build on as opposed to a swan song after a long gap) or just cast a new Bond and have it be more of a definitive start. Either could have conceivably worked, but the new start approach turned out to be better I think. What makes me think it's more or less the truth is how public Brosnan's issues were with his contract not getting renewed in '04. Maybe to some extent they knew Dalton had no intention of returning for more than one and pushed the idea of multiple films to move things along, but I reckon if they could have made it work with Dalton they would have done. But at the end of the day none of us know for sure.
  • Posts: 980
    007HallY wrote: »
    I guess it depends. But it's conceivable that an actor could do those three films within about a 10 year span (so one film released every three years) and decides he wants to step down as opposed to renegotiate or take the fourth option. If the actor was satisfied with their Bond era it could hypothetically be a reason.

    And a good reason for the following era to be stronger than ever.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,252
    I would rather a strong trilogy over more films that are mixed bag.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,382
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I guess it depends. But it's conceivable that an actor could do those three films within about a 10 year span (so one film released every three years) and decides he wants to step down as opposed to renegotiate or take the fourth option. If the actor was satisfied with their Bond era it could hypothetically be a reason.

    Which is a good reason why the story about Dalton stepping down from doing a third whilst Eon wanted him seems a little dubious.

    I'm guessing that there were both a number of films (three) and a time limit (7 years is not uncommon for employment contracts) that affected the Dalton decision.

    After LTK underperformed in the US and after the Dalton replacing Brosnan controversy (it was big news in the US, back when US tabloids really mattered), I can see why Eon was looking to move on from Dalton, despite their PR spin that they wanted to keep him.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,477
    Yes the story that has circulated with Dalton was that Cubby asked him to return. He said he would but only for 1 more. Cubby replied with the hiatus they would need him to commit to a few more as with the gap it didn't make sense to come back for just one. Dalton considered it and said he would only come back for the one. Thus Cubby set about re-casting.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 9 Posts: 16,602
    echo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I guess it depends. But it's conceivable that an actor could do those three films within about a 10 year span (so one film released every three years) and decides he wants to step down as opposed to renegotiate or take the fourth option. If the actor was satisfied with their Bond era it could hypothetically be a reason.

    Which is a good reason why the story about Dalton stepping down from doing a third whilst Eon wanted him seems a little dubious.

    I'm guessing that there were both a number of films (three) and a time limit (7 years is not uncommon for employment contracts) that affected the Dalton decision.

    After LTK underperformed in the US and after the Dalton replacing Brosnan controversy (it was big news in the US, back when US tabloids really mattered), I can see why Eon was looking to move on from Dalton, despite their PR spin that they wanted to keep him.

    Yes I don't really doubt that they just wanted to make a fresh start: Dalton wasn't really viewed as a success. MGM/UA certainly did want to move on, the story about Dalton not wanting to do more was, I think, just a nice PR story which didn't make anyone look bad.
    I think, of all the Bonds, Dalton is actually the one the Broccolis are closest to.
  • edited December 9 Posts: 2,296
    mtm wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I guess it depends. But it's conceivable that an actor could do those three films within about a 10 year span (so one film released every three years) and decides he wants to step down as opposed to renegotiate or take the fourth option. If the actor was satisfied with their Bond era it could hypothetically be a reason.

    Which is a good reason why the story about Dalton stepping down from doing a third whilst Eon wanted him seems a little dubious.

    I'm guessing that there were both a number of films (three) and a time limit (7 years is not uncommon for employment contracts) that affected the Dalton decision.

    After LTK underperformed in the US and after the Dalton replacing Brosnan controversy (it was big news in the US, back when US tabloids really mattered), I can see why Eon was looking to move on from Dalton, despite their PR spin that they wanted to keep him.

    Yes I don't really doubt that they just wanted to make a fresh start: Dalton wasn't really viewed as a success. MGM/UA certainly did want to move on, the story about Dalton not wanting to do more was, I think, just a nice PR story which didn't make anyone look bad.
    I think, of all the Bonds, Dalton is actually the one the Broccolis are closest to.

    I’m not sure where I heard it from, but there was a story about someone having an opportunity to be at the Broccoli household and walking in to see Timothy Dalton making either a Millshake or some kind of smoothie.

    I think it probably is true that Dalton is the closest to the Broccoli family out of all the Bond actors. There’s also the story about Dalton sending a private letter to Cubby Broccoli after the premiere of TLD thanking him for casting him in the part and for giving him the opportunity.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,382
    I'm guessing that Dalton is well-liked in the industry. Has he had the longest career of all the Bonds? I think so!
  • edited December 9 Posts: 4,300
    Dalton and EON seem to have parted on good terms, true. In fact I've always found it quite surprising he's never expressed (as far as I'm aware anyway) any sort of disappointment about the situation, as most Bond actors seem to have some sort of issue with these things (whether that's Brosnan feeling like he was 'kicked to the curb' in '04, Connery's salary issues, what happened with Lazenby, and even Moore's contract renegotiations which seem quite brutal. Even Craig had understandable frustrations about the demands of Bond and obviously didn't want to jump straight back into it after SP).

    Again, it's what makes me suspect the narrative we've heard is pretty much true. In fact I think Dalton has even claimed he was hesitant even to want to do one more after the legal issues were beginning to resolve, and he told Broccoli as much. So my feeling is his personal preference to move on played a big part in this decision (albeit under unusual circumstances) rather than EON using said circumstances to drop him.
  • According to Jeff Kleeman, it all came down to a decision between MGM/UA executives (himself included) and Barbara/Michael. The executives made their case for casting a new Bond (in this case they were looking at Brosnan) while Barbara/Michael tried to make the case to stick with Dalton. In the end, Cubby made the final decision to go with Pierce.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,477
    With the new Indiana Jones game getting rave reviews, with a Bond video game in development and a leaked "Lego Bond" game trailer was leaked. my mind drifted to the land of video games.

    What if an open-world Bond video game similar to GTA or Assassin’s Creed was developed? What missions or features would it need? What aspects would you want to see in a game?

    Share your ideas on this new scenario!
  • Posts: 15,229
    thedove wrote: »
    With the new Indiana Jones game getting rave reviews, with a Bond video game in development and a leaked "Lego Bond" game trailer was leaked. my mind drifted to the land of video games.

    What if an open-world Bond video game similar to GTA or Assassin’s Creed was developed? What missions or features would it need? What aspects would you want to see in a game?

    Share your ideas on this new scenario!

    I know nothing about video games. Like nothing. I only play Minecraft with my son. And I'm curious about GTA since I discovered they use Mozart for music in one of their games (don't know which one).

    That said, I'd play an open-world Bond game. Not sure how it could work with Bond or how Bondian it would be, but I'd play it.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited December 12 Posts: 698
    thedove wrote: »
    With the new Indiana Jones game getting rave reviews, with a Bond video game in development and a leaked "Lego Bond" game trailer was leaked. my mind drifted to the land of video games.

    What if an open-world Bond video game similar to GTA or Assassin’s Creed was developed? What missions or features would it need? What aspects would you want to see in a game?

    Share your ideas on this new scenario!

    I'm not sure how a freeroaming/open world game would work with Bond. He's not like Batman or Spiderman, relegated to a single city. You'd need 3 or 4 separate cities to give it the globe-trotting feel, but even then, what would be the point of freeroaming when Bond is mission-based? I'm not saying it can't work. Maybe a company could something ingenious with it. But I don't think it'd play to Bond's strengths.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,477
    Based on the article in Variety and some of things that were mentioned within came this news. I was struck by the following nugget in the article:

    "Gregg Wilson wishes to modernize the character away from a straight white male. Broccoli has (somewhat) pushed against this."

    Many have wondered whether Gregg will take on a more predominate role with the next film. It is clear that his father is retiring and the popular thinking was that Gregg might be stepping up.

    Apparently Gregg is looking to modernize the character and has been advocating for Bond to not be a straight white male in the next film. Lets see where this discussion leads. Please be mindful of being inclusive and respectful in this discussion.

    What if Bond is modernized from a straight white male in the next film adventure?

    How would the general public react to this? How would the die hard fans?
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