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I have to say that I've thought long and hard about this throughout the years and there's still no easy answer. Yes, it could've been a turning point for Dalton and perhaps, maybe, without getting too presumptuous, it may have even been a big hit, but I think probably not. It would've had to have captured the zeitgeist like TSWLM. Imagine what Moore's legacy would've been like if he had only done the first two. A strong cult following but not someone who cemented himself into the public consciousness. Certainly not Bond royalty. Sound familiar?
It's too bad that Dalton never had the chance. I consider myself lucky to truly enjoy all six actors, unlike some members of the community (which is not a cut) who feel quite differently, and in a perfect world both Dalton and Brosnan would've received their dues. In short, I'd be very curious to see what a '91 Dalton release would've looked like. He had at least one more film he should've appeared in and ultimately rejected, but I'm not sure American audiences at the time would've responded en masse.
One factor to keep in mind is that the cinema environment between TMWTGG (1974) – TSWLM (1977) and LTK (1989) -???? (1991) were very different. The mid and late 1980s brought forth major “action franchises” like Terminator, Lethal Weapon, Batman, Indiana Jones and even Beverly Hills Cop. And, like it or not, they did compete with Bond. The Roger Moore breakthrough of TSWLM didn’t really face that situation (IMO). In short, some of the box office space that had been Bond’s alone, by the mid-1980s, was now crowded.
And while I personally like Dalton’s 007 (even more than Craig’s, perhaps), at the time, many members of the public didn’t really accept him. Although, perhaps, it would be more accurate to say, that for many 1980’s movie goers, there were simply other stars that they found more exciting.
Ironically, by the mid 1990’s, that second wave of action films was itself undergoing changes, and that – along with the smart move to open the films in November instead of the summer, and a general rise in 1960s nostalgia – opened things back up for Bond.
That’s my two cents for what its worth.
As for B17, we don’t honestly know if the early draft would’ve gone through more changes before it reached the big screen and ended up quite different to how some of us envision it. One thing for sure, UA were determined to replace Dalton after just 2 movies, and I feel they might have hampered the movie, had it been made, with another poor advertising campaign due to them not being heavily invested in the movie the way they should’ve been. Personally, I think a third Dalton Bond would’ve gone some way to cementing his DNA into the role and giving him the necessary springboard to go on.
Bold prediction. Only time will tell. or not.
I would add a couple of if's to the scenario...if it was a successful I can't see it stopping Dalton's run and I could see him doing at least a couple more. Then would Brosnan ever be cast? Or would that become a great what if of all time. As he would have been the missing actor and we'd go from Dalton to Craig? Then does this impact the decision to reboot in 2006? Funny how one change could impact the whole timeline and history of the series.
When Ben Hecht scripted his adaptation of Casino Royale in 1962/63 (in between FRWL and GF), he kept the torture sequence (but added another character to the scene, which I won't spoil), and kept Vesper's suicide but added a happy ending. For further spoilers I recommend reading Jeremy Duns' monograph on the Hecht script, Rogue Royale.
I suppose, though it's a sugarcoated version of Fleming's ending, which deprives the audience of any consolation. Bond might make his vow, but his last words, and those of the novel, are a cry of rage and defeat. You're right that very few filmmakers would have the guts to end the film on such a bitter, violent way.
All Bond actors since Roger Moore have been given a three film contract with an optional fourth. Assuming there was a successful Bond 17 in 1991, that would leave one more for a possible Bond 18 in 1993. With the contract complete, I think Dalton would have graciously bowed out. Outside of snagging the Bond role, he never really set out to become a big movie star, turning down a lot Hollywood gigs that would have made him prolific beyond Bond. He chose to do Bond because he was a fan of the Fleming books and wanted to bring the literary version of the character onto the big screen. That he turned down the chance to return for GOLDENEYE because he only wanted to do one more film and not be contracted to a couple more says a lot.
Had he stepped down after a fourth in 1993, that leaves the door open for Brosnan to get that second chance. That makes me curious of how a Brosnan debut after Dalton finishing a four film run would have turned out. There being no hiatus wouldn't make Brosnan's debut the big comeback for Bond as it turned out in reality. I can't imagine the filmmakers playing up the post-Cold War dynamics the way GE did. Robert Brown had retired by 1991, so a new M would have already been inevitably introduced either in Dalton's third or fourth film.
Yeah, unless it was a one-off film, I don't see Hollywood doing something as harsh as that. Looking back, it's admirable that they even stuck with the structure of the novel by having Le Chiffre killed before the third act, which isn't something a lot of big movies typically do, let alone having the final act center around the suicide of the leading lady. I always felt the sinking house stuff was superfluous, but being part of the franchise raises expectations for a big climax, so just having Bond find her corpse and reading the letter might have been too much out of EON's wheelhouse, but I wish I could have seen that cinematically realized. I always imagined as Bond would read the letter we'd hear Eva Green's voice, flashing back to her writing the letter, cutting to seeing her in moments working for the enemy, and as she says "I have to be strong" we get an image of her in bed after having taken the pills, a close up of her hand gripping the bed sheet then slowly see the grip lessen as her life is draining away.
Maybe had CR just been a standalone book instead of one of a major franchise that film could have been made, but oh well.
How Am I just hearing about 1964's Casino Royale now !!!!
I am tempted to pick up the book is it a good read or is it dry?
And as a counter point how come no one has done a book on Bond 17... Actually I just thought of a novel idea for a book ….QUICK to I have a Brother Publishing @peter
I might be mis-remembering, but I think Purvis and Wade's original draft had Vesper leaving a video for Bond instead of a letter, whereas the sinking house was added by Haggis. If anyone can confirm this, that would be much appreciated.
It's a good read. Jeremy Duns is also spy novelist, so he knows how to craft a good narrative.
Hmm, not keen on the idea of a video. If you have to update from a handwritten letter, perhaps a voice recording would have been best. It makes it more haunting hearing her off a speaker as her corpse is lying in bed.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2007/dec/04/guardianinterviewsatbfisouthbank1
Kinda like when Bond was visiting Tracy's grave and then grinning like a schoolboy before dumping Blofeld down the chimney.
Yup. My least favorite sequence in FYEO.
Our what if topic is Dalton returning for Bond 17 in 1991 and what impact that would have had on the series and on the publics view of Dalton as Bond. If anyone has thoughts to share on that what if please feel free to get us back on track.
OR we can continue to offer some thoughts on what if CR had been developed into a movie in 1964-65. I believe @Revelator has educated us all on this subject and even mentioned a book about it. For sure an interesting thought so please offer up thoughts on this too if the mood strikes.
If we don't get any posts on either of the two above I shall move us on to another scenario for discussion. Cheers!
However one recurring character has been played by multiple actors through-out the series. Felix Leiter! Bond's American ally, first introduced in DN played by the cool Jack Lord. Many view his portrayal as one of the best. The producers tried to bring him back for GF but Lord demanded co-billing with Connery and had some rather high salary expectations. But what if Lord had come back with less demands and played Leiter in GF? Could we envision Lord continuing to portray the character in TB, DAF and LALD? How would this change how the character was used in those films?
What say you Mi6? What if Jack Lord had portrayed Leiter from DN to LALD?
"HARRY SALTZMAN AND ALBERT R BROCCOLI PRESENT.............
JACK LORD
IN
IAN FLEMING'S
GOLDFINGER
starring
HONOR BLACKMAN
GERT FROBE
HAROLD SAKATA
and seen konnery..... ...oops .....uh........make that sean connery"
The other lost opportunity was Rik Van Nutter who agreed to keep playing the part after TB, but Leiter didn't appear in You Only Live Twice (1967) or On Her Majesty's Secret Service (1969). By the time Leiter re-appeared in Diamonds are Forever (1971), Rik had moved on to other things, so the story goes.
Assuming Lord still had HAWAII FIVE-O, he probably would have had to be replaced in LALD. He would do one more for DAF, because that was filmed during the show’s break between seasons. David Hedison still gets the gig in LALD because he was pals with Moore and had chemistry, and given how Felix had a more notable presence with Lord returning that would give the writers incentive to bring back Hedison for the appropriate films. Come TLD (with either John Terry or anyone else), there would have been more thought put into Felix’s presence in the film and wouldn’t be such a cameo, then LTK would have been perceived as more shocking seeing a familiar name get treated so harshly.
Van Nutter was similar with the suit on the beach in TB and although he was okay, the character was still written as kind of just an aide for Bond. Burton was more in charge and trying to put Bond in his place on his turf. Even when Hedison took over I couldn't understand why it wasn't him instead of Quarrel Jr. in the thick of the action setting the explosives to destroy the poppy fields instead of staying behind on the boat. With Dr. No at least you know Quarrel staying with Bond on Crab Key was true to he book.
In reading the novels, you picture Bond and Felix as being roughly the same age and of close to equal skill sets. They complement each other. I get that Bond has to be the focus in the movies, but it still feels like a missed opportunity and the character could've been presented better instead of an afterthought and I think they would've had Lord continued.
Overall, Leiter on film has been pretty underserved since day one. Just one scene between the two on R&R would have justified his presence beyond exposition dump.