The What if Maibaum's idea of Bond receiving plastic surgery in OHMSS had been left in the script?

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  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited December 2024 Posts: 3,189
    For myself, I'd rather have ideas kept for the actual Bond films, rather than turn the series into a franchise by diffusing them among various spin-offs. I can see why Amazon might want to follow the current model, but I agree with Darth Dimi that the end result would likely be a reduction in quality and eventually a lowering of interest that, at best, could make Bond less than it is and, at worst, lead to the end of the series.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,719
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    One spin-off I can always imagine is one starring Scaramanga (the film version, more or less), because he's basically a version of Bond, or could be: he's smooth and suave and stylish and lives in an expensive world, kills people, has gadgets etc. He lives in a slightly more edgy side of the road, and these spin-off things do like to look at the villains, like Penguin.

    But as Dimi says, that would only really work because it's kind of giving you the Bond character and everything that people watch Bond for, albeit without actual 007. Other spin-offs I struggle to see slightly; I especially think one about another, different 00 wouldn't really work, because if it's 005 or whoever taking on the kind of villains that Bond takes down, getting briefings from M etc. then why am I not just watching Bond?

    Perfectly stated, @mtm. I agree.

    One that I could, perhaps, see, is a miniseries dealing with "the rise of Blofeld", from forgotten foster brother to the head of the world's most sinister and mightiest crime organization. Except that... well... not too many people seem to have embraced this version of Blofeld. On the other hand, a good miniseries might have corrected that a little. But Blofeld and the Craig universe are gone, so I doubt anyone would be interested.

    I think maybe, if it were ten years ago, Naomie Harris' Moneypenny could potentially have had her own series. Not being a Bond-a-like, but perhaps a bit more of a low key, London-centric spy show. I think she would have been strong enough to carry it and the characters were popular around that time. But yeah, can't do it now the Craig films are over, time's moved on.
  • edited December 2024 Posts: 1,502
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    They can make a series with 008. A woman or a black guy.

    And it would have nothing to do with the world of Bond, so what's the point? Just construct a completely independent spy series starring an MI6 agent.

    It can have M and Moneypeny. And they could do all the silly things without ruining Bond.
  • Posts: 2,053
    I like the exclusivity of Bond. I prefer no spinoffs that would essentially be Bond lite.
  • edited December 2024 Posts: 380
    Regarding the possibility Amazon release Bond 26 as a streaming only film...

    The global box office has shrunk dramatically since Covid-19. Very few films are making over 700 million worldwide and a tiny amount hit the big 1 billion mark. Prior to Covid, Disney broke box office records by having nine films make 1 billion dollars in the year 2019.

    In 2019, Disney broke the record for the most movies to surpass $1 billion worldwide in a calendar year with nine films:
    Captain Marvel: Marvel Studios' film grossed $1.13 billion
    Avengers: Endgame: Marvel Studios' film grossed $2.8 billion and became Disney's highest grossing film of all time
    Aladdin: Disney live-action's film grossed $1.05 billion
    The Lion King: Disney live-action's film grossed $1.66 billion
    Toy Story 4: Pixar's film grossed $1.07 billion
    Frozen II: Walt Disney Animation's film grossed $1.26 billion
    Spider-Man: Far From Home: Grossed $1.132 billion
    Disney's total box office for 2019 was $11.1 billion worldwide.

    I doubt anything close to those stats will ever happen again. However....

    Disney had a catastrophic year in 2020 when covid hit and everything was closed for months. Disney went from huge record breaking profit to deficit. The global box office dropped a staggering 80 percent in 2020. The industry has not recovered. Only two films have made over a billion dollars in 2024.

    1 - Inside Out 2
    2 - Deadpool & Wolverine.

    And just six films made over 500 million. Will Bond 26 make more than 500 million? Very likely. More than 750 million? Probably not. Close to a billion? I'm guessing no.

    Maybe Amazon don't care about the box office. They've no reason to want to share their box office profits with the cinema chains. The chains take approximately half the box office. If Amazon go straight to video streaming/streaming rental/retail with Bond 26 the cinema chains get not one cent! 🤭
    Most movies released on Amazon Prime Video are primarily straight to streaming. This means they are available for subscribers to watch as part of their Prime membership without any additional rental fees.

    However, there are also titles that are available for rental or purchase. Here’s a quick breakdown:

    Straight to Streaming: Many original films, like The Tomorrow War and Borat Subsequent Moviefilm, are released directly for streaming.
    Rental/Purchase Options: Some newer or popular titles may be available for rent or purchase, allowing users to access them without a Prime subscription.

    I'm guessing Bond 26 would be free on Amazon Prime (obviously) but then available to rent/buy for non Prime customers soon after or on release date. Amazon would get more customers signing up to Prime to see Bond 26 and the rest of the customer base would pay the rental fee. That's a lot of cash coming in? I assume so. I don't know it's enough to make Bond 26 profitable though. But if more people join Amazon Prime as a result of Bond 26 exclusively on Amazon then over time the extra money coming in should cover the cost of making Bond 26. It's possible Amazon do want to make Bond 26 or future Bond films straight to vod (video on demand) but Eon are resistant to that idea/strategy and that could be one of the reasons for the alleged impasse.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,516
    The problem there is, Amazon can release the film in theatres, make 700 million and then release it on prime/to rent and make money that way too.
  • Posts: 2,053
    Looking for some clarity. What exactly is the business relationship between Amazon and EON? Can either make a Bond film without the other?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,260
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Looking for some clarity. What exactly is the business relationship between Amazon and EON? Can either make a Bond film without the other?

    Amazon owns MGM, which bought half the rights to Danjaq, and the other half is the Broccoli family. Quite literally neither can make Bond without the other. MGM when briefly run by Pathe in the early 90s tried doing things with the Bond films that Cubby didn’t approve of, which is partly why there was a lawsuit that put Bond 17 on hold for six years.

    So if Amazon tried doing anything that touches Bond and Eon is not on board, they can sue Amazon.
  • edited January 3 Posts: 380
    Regarding streaming vs theatrical, found this article online which makes it clear.
    In recent years, the major studios have embraced a variety of release strategies that have seen the old ubiquitous model of a theatrical release followed by digital/disc sell-through 90 days later fall away.

    Arguably the most common one now has a new premium video-on-demand (PVOD) tier sliding in there – premium-priced rentals or purchases ($20-25 rentals) that come just a few weeks after the theatrical release began but often weeks before the release on regular VOD ($7 rentals) and subscription video-on-demand (SVOD) services like Netflix, Disney+, Paramount+, etc.

    Of all the major studios, Universal Pictures has been the most aggressive PVOD supporter. Whereas many studios wait until 45 days after the film opened theatrically to release a movie digitally, sometimes longer if that film is doing well, Universal’s windows are shorter. A lot shorter.
    Universal’s agreement with exhibitors allows them to bring titles to PVOD platforms in as little as 17-31 days after they open theatrically, depending upon how well they opened.

    Mendes4Lyfe wrote
    The problem there is, Amazon can release the film in theatres, make 700 million and then release it on prime/to rent and make money that way too.

    But Amazon wouldn't make 700 million. They'd make approximate 350 million as cinema chains take around half the box office receipts. There's also any other investors getting their smaller cut of the box office pie. It's possible future Bond films have shorter theatrical distribution periods so the theater chains get less share of the box office. Bond 26 or 27 would have a high ish PVOD rental and purchase price because it's exclusive on Amazon Prime. People that waited to see it on streaming pay the premium price and get to see Bond 26 or Bond 27 in the comfort of their home.
    Premium video on demand (PVOD) content typically costs around $19.99 to purchase or rental, but can range up to $29.99. This is higher than the price of standard video-on-demand (VOD) films, which are usually around $5.99.
    PVOD is a revenue model where streaming services charge a premium price for early access to content. It can be a cost-effective option for groups or families, as it can be cheaper than buying multiple theater tickets. It can also be more affordable to share the viewing experience at home, avoiding the cost of transportation, parking, and concessions.
    Some titles may become available for reduced-price rental after their PVOD release. These rentals are usually around $5.99, but can sometimes be $9.99.

    I don't have Amazon Prime and in my last post I incorrectly suggested Bond 26 would be free if you have Amazon Prime. Pardon my error.
    PVOD videos are not free on Amazon Prime

    If there are millions of potential customers prepared to rent or buy PVOD Bond 26 it must be a potential money maker for Amazon. Maybe it makes sense to have a limited theatrical release for Bond 26 then lure customers to rent the film. This would not be to Eon's liking but streaming is not going to go away so Eon will have to adapt to the modern technology. If Amazon do insist on a shorter theatrical release it will put Eon in a difficult position.




  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,417
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Looking for some clarity. What exactly is the business relationship between Amazon and EON? Can either make a Bond film without the other?

    Barbara is the dom, and Amazon is the sub. ;)
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,525
    Sometimes a what if can be a good one, and others we should be glad the road wasn't taken.


    According to Mi6 website "Maibaum had originally planned to introduce Lazenby with a plastic surgery sub-plot. In his first draft, Bond was to undergo the surgery at the very beginning of the film, his appearance being changed because his face was now too well known to his enemies. Thankfully, the idea was quickly dropped."

    This was a plot device to explain how a new fella was playing Bond.

    What if in OHMSS a plot device of Bond receiving plastic surgery was used to explain Bond's changed appearance?


    Would this have tied the producers hands for future adventures? Would they have had to address it in the next film? How do you think this would have played out if they had left it in the script?

  • Posts: 2,053
    It's understandable why that idea was a consideration. But Connery's voice and mannerisms were well-known. Explaining that difference would have been tricky. As awful as it all seemed at the time, history has taken a liking to GL's one off. Even with Connery's return, OHMSSd with a lesser actor was still a better film.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,101
    It would have set the wrong precedent. They'd have had to give an explanation for each subsequent change of actor as well. Imagine in DAF: "You look vaguely familiar, 007." "Yes, sir, they restored my original face quite adequately, didn't they? They just gave me too much of a fat belly and too little hair. But we may be able to correct that in the future. I heard they are planning to put me in a tan suit with flared trousers next, and give me flexible eyebrows."
  • Posts: 4,375
    I think it would have simply made OHMSS more an oddity than it needed it to be, both at the time and after. I don't think it's something they would have continued with as a tradition with each new Bond, but it would have been a strange little footnote in Bond movie history.
  • Posts: 15,274
    007HallY wrote: »
    I think it would have simply made OHMSS more an oddity than it needed it to be, both at the time and after. I don't think it's something they would have continued with as a tradition with each new Bond, but it would have been a strange little footnote in Bond movie history.

    Makes sense. OHMSS has now reached iconic status among fans (and maybe with the public in general), but a lot of its creative process was played by ear, especially when it had to do with recasting Bond: there's the "other fellah" line, the fact that Bond and Blofeld don't recognise each other, etc.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,417
    Not so much played by ear I think but more as a course correction from the previous film and to keep the integrity of Fleming's story intact (including the Bray disguise).

    In an alternate universe, Connery only did DN-TB and then Lazenby hung in there for OHMSS-YOLT-TMWTGG. The rest of the Bond timeline has different actors.
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