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The What if NTTD is the last EON produced Bond film? page 62

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  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    I’m glad to see this thread resurrected. :)
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,419
    Minion wrote: »
    I’m glad to see this thread resurrected. :)

    Thanks Minion! I enjoy throwing a new what if out from time to time and see what wonderful thoughts the group has. There has been so many decisions made in the life of the series that there are lots of ideas and thoughts on these different choices.

    On to our current topic. I wonder if Hopkins would have played it as written or suggested some re-writes to the character. Which I believe was happening during the shooting anyway. I think the media may have been bigger with Hopkins in the role. I never really believed Paris and Elliot being an item of any chemistry. For some reason I am thinking that it gets more believable with Hopkins playing Carver. I know Hatcher was the choice of the studio and not someone they had in mind when the part was written.

    I think he'd be less hammy then Pryce though I like the notes that Pryce hits with his OTT portrayal.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,419
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I often regret not getting in on this thread at the ground floor. It's one that I've been averse to jumping into late; like I already missed so much of the good stuff.

    No need for regrets @Birdleson if you want PM a suggestion for a what if you'd like us to tackle for a second time. I am amazed that some get way more posts and some that I think would get lots of posts get very little. Nothing wrong with revisiting a scenario.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,419
    All right time to kick start things again. Here is one I would like to chat about, which also concerns a villain. In one draft of DAF the villain was Auric Goldfinger's twin brother. The thinking was they would cast Gert Frobe to return. I believe Richard Maibaum wrote the script and had a line "Oh Auric, yes mother always thought he was a bit retarded." (which would make the film very controversial when viewed today!) Bond was going to chase Goldfinger out on Lake Mead and the climax wouldn't be on the oil rig as Maibaum was on record saying that was a bad choice by the filmmakers.

    My question is what if DAF had Auric's twin as the main villain do you think it would work? It certainly would lessen the connection to OHMSS and I am not sure what they would have done to wrap up Bond getting revenge on Blofeld. Do you think DAF plays better without Blofeld? Would it fit the OTT nature of DAF?

    What say you Mi6...what if Maibaum's script had been approved and the villain of DAF had been Auric Goldfinger's twin brother?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    It might have been an underwhelming direction to take so I’m kinda glad they didn’t go that route. It was still underwhelming with Gray’s Blofeld (though I liked the actor’s presence). I’m glad EON hasn’t attempted such a gimmick in the twin brother idea just to reuse an actor.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Having Frobe play his own twin brother wouldn't be anything but a gimmick. It's a bad idea, but thankfully bad ideas like this are usually quashed at the script stage.

    How the idea of Blofeld being Bond's stepbrother managed to squeeze past the script stage in SP is anybody's guess....
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    A bizarre concept that proceeds Despicable Me and Die Hard with a Vengeance. Though, admittedly, John McTiernan cast Jeremy Irons as Simon Gruber in place of Alan Rickman. But I have to agree with @LeonardPine on both accounts.

    It "might" have been an inspired idea back in 1970 and audiences "might" have taken to it. Then again, it might also have split the fan base just like the modern Star Wars has done today. Who really knows? Having said that, I'm in no doubt that it wouldn't have aged well. Even less so than Blofeld dressing up in drag to escape Bond's clutches.
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,917
    What I find intriguing is at the time there still wasn't a set actor as Bond when this was being floated. As we know, American actor John Gavin was signed before Connery was lured back and how awkward would it have been to have this new actor taking on a character so linked to his predecessor in the role? Connery against Frobe again could at least be fun.

    As an idea, it seems desperate at this point in the series with so many Fleming titles still available to go back to the well again for this concept when they were only six films in. Interesting to read about; glad it didn't happen.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited December 2019 Posts: 6,288
    I feel like GF's twin in DAF would have been like SP after SF.

  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,419
    I wonder the exact thing @LeonardPine who they ever thought a familial link was a good idea. I forgot about Die Hard with a Vengeance! That to me made some sense and at least they cast a different actor.

    To me a twin of GF would only make it less of a continuation from OHMSS. Like you'd be really saying just forget Bond got married. For that reason I am glad it didn't happen. As for the climax not taking place on the Oil Rig I think Maibaum was right. I never liked how we never learn Blofeld's real fate. There were other ways to end. Case's tough character now becomes a blubbering twit. The Lake Mead ending might have improved on that.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I wonder if the Blofeld doppelganger scenario was inspired by this discarded Goldfinger twin idea. Even if only subconciously.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,419
    Possibly, good point @Thunderfinger we know they got the kidnapped Whyte idea from a dream Cubby had. I rather like that plot point.

    I sure that has each draft is submitted they build on some ideas and scrap others. I thought I heard Auric's twin was floated for another movie. But I am not sure that's the case.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Is there a script available for this scrapped DAF?
  • RevelatorRevelator
    Posts: 2,917
    Minion wrote: »
    Is there a script available for this scrapped DAF?

    There are details of it in Charles Helfenstein's book on The Making of OHMSS.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    thedove wrote: »
    All right time to kick start things again. Here is one I would like to chat about, which also concerns a villain. In one draft of DAF the villain was Auric Goldfinger's twin brother. The thinking was they would cast Gert Frobe to return. I believe Richard Maibaum wrote the script and had a line "Oh Auric, yes mother always thought he was a bit retarded." (which would make the film very controversial when viewed today!) Bond was going to chase Goldfinger out on Lake Mead and the climax wouldn't be on the oil rig as Maibaum was on record saying that was a bad choice by the filmmakers.

    My question is what if DAF had Auric's twin as the main villain do you think it would work? It certainly would lessen the connection to OHMSS and I am not sure what they would have done to wrap up Bond getting revenge on Blofeld. Do you think DAF plays better without Blofeld? Would it fit the OTT nature of DAF?

    What say you Mi6...what if Maibaum's script had been approved and the villain of DAF had been Auric Goldfinger's twin brother?

    Very cool concept, maybe something they could explore in the Dynamite 007 graphic novel series?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2019 Posts: 18,270
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    I wonder if the Blofeld doppelganger scenario was inspired by this discarded Goldfinger twin idea. Even if only subconciously.

    I’ve always assumed it evolved from that.

    Yes, and well spotted. It certainly must have played a part in the script development of DAF. That said, I never noticed the similarity in the two ideas until @Thunderfinger brought it up here.
  • TR007TR007
    Posts: 1,165
    I'm so glad they didn't go down this route in DAF. I don't think it would have added anything of merit to the franchise, if anything it would have only taken from the legacy of GF and potentialy serve to damage that movies reputation.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    A very gimmicky idea for sure, but DAF was about as poor as it could get in comparison to the other Connect films, so any changes probably wouldn't have made it worse. At least then, it would have truly put the events of OHMSS at arms length, rather than the soft, middle ground we got with the film.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    By the way @thedove as a lover of obscure Bond trivia, I have to give you Kudos for this thread it's one of my go to's everytime I come on MI6. Great work, old chap.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,419
    Oh it was nothing really! LOL! Thanks @Roadphill I enjoy thinking up some of the scenarios and thinking what might have been. So many choices made throughout the course of the series and it's interesting to consider what might have been. I must admit the podcast James Bond and Friends has also inspired a few with their chats.

    Back to the subject at hand, I too am glad that Goldfinger's brother didn't return. As much as I love Goldfinger as a character and villain to see a twin who I suppose would fixate on diamonds seems pretty weak. I think it would have also really minimized OHMSS even further. Which is weird as Maibaum was the screenwriter of that film you'd think he'd prefer to continue the work. Or is this a case where the men paying the cheques call the shots.
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    I wonder if the Blofeld doppelganger scenario was inspired by this discarded Goldfinger twin idea. Even if only subconciously.

    I’ve always assumed it evolved from that.
    I always thought the doppelganger idea came from Cubby's dream, which involved Cubby visiting his reclusive old friend, businessman Howard Hughes, in his 2-floor suite in The Desert Inn, only to find that when Hughes turned around from behind his huge desk, it was an impostor who'd stolen his identity and not Hughes.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I honestly kind of like the idea. DAF is already campy and bizarre as it is. And swapping out Blofeld for Goldfinger's brother gets rid of the ghost of OHMSS. The Bond/Blofeld interactions really annoy me in that film. Even if you ignore OHMSS and treat it as a standalone, they come across more like friendly sporting rivals than arch enemies once the PTs is over.

    At the end of the day it can't have made the film any worse than it already is, and more of Gert Frobe as Goldfinger (I'm imagining he'd play it essentially the same) would have at least been entertaining.

    Probably isn't a great precedent to set, going that silly/contrived, but the film is pretty silly and contrived as it is. Plus he went to space a few years later and they managed to go back to grounded pretty easily afterwards. So I don't think it would have really hindered the series in any way, and it would have at least been more of a clean break from OHMSS. Having Blofeld in the film the way they did it is just rubbing it in really isn't it. His presence reminds us that we could have got a proper YOLT esque follow up but instead we got this.
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,917
    thedove wrote: »
    Back to the subject at hand, I too am glad that Goldfinger's brother didn't return. As much as I love Goldfinger as a character and villain to see a twin who I suppose would fixate on diamonds seems pretty weak. I think it would have also really minimized OHMSS even further. Which is weird as Maibaum was the screenwriter of that film you'd think he'd prefer to continue the work. Or is this a case where the men paying the cheques call the shots.

    Pretty much the latter from what I've read, especially during that time. Harry Saltzman once said the script of a Bond film was like a Christmas tree with everybody contributing something to it until it's ready to be presented. A lot of Bond films get written by committee. The Cubby dream about Howard Hughes is what was said to turn around the DAF script.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,419
    Yes good point @BT3366 I remember Ronald Dahl saying the same thing about YOLT. He was told how many women Bond was to bed and such.

    I thought in honour for New Years we would do something a bit different. If I could grant you the power to go back in time and influence the decisions made about one of the films in the series. What film would you revisit? How would you plead to Cubby and Saltzman? What decision would you have them change and why?

    So mi6 what if you could go back in time and change the decisions made on 1film. Which film and why?
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,288
    thedove wrote: »
    Yes good point @BT3366 I remember Ronald Dahl saying the same thing about YOLT. He was told how many women Bond was to bed and such.

    I thought in honour for New Years we would do something a bit different. If I could grant you the power to go back in time and influence the decisions made about one of the films in the series. What film would you revisit? How would you plead to Cubby and Saltzman? What decision would you have them change and why?

    So mi6 what if you could go back in time and change the decisions made on 1film. Which film and why?

    DAF is campy and enjoyable in its own right. But I still think several decisions in that film were the absolute wrong ones, particularly in the PTS. Connery could have shown more anger as he dispatched Blofeld.

    I also think that Blofeld's demise in that film could have been more definitive just to make the revenge arc more rewarding, which would have fixed the problems of the FYEO PTS.

    Hindsight is 2020--LOL--but I know Broccoli and Co. were hedging their bets and hoping to use SPECTRE again, as soon as TSWLM.

    Does anyone know if they ever planned on using SPECTRE for LALD and TMWTGG? Or had McClory's lawsuit already complicated things so that they were steering clear?
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Well the obvious, and fairly easy fixes would have been for DAD. Take out the invisible car, and RoboCop suit. Lose the tidal wave. Have plastic surgery as opposed to 'gene therapy'. Have a fix up on the dialogue. Then you would have had yourself a pretty decent Bond film.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,419
    Okay well that attempt at a different what if didn't really hit the big time. Lets try this for a what if! There has been much talk on the podcast that some miss the days of the sausage factory where a Bond movie was turned out every 2 years like clockwork.

    What if after NTTD, EON went ahead and started pushing out a Bond film every 2 years. What would be the effects be of going back to an every two year cycle? What would hurt the series of going to one film every two years? Do you think this is possible given today's movie making standards and requirements?

    What say you Mi6 community...What if EON started producing Bond films every two years?
  • muzz100muzz100
    Posts: 82
    I think they’d find it very difficult to tap into the zeitgeist, tbh. Too many pre-production decisions would have to have been taken while the previous film was being filmed? But ask an expert, obvs. It just feels as if it wouldn’t work. But 5 years is way too long. Craig’s bones must have been creaking. When it’s all over I hope he tucks into a few cheeseburgers.
  • DrClatterhandDrClatterhand United Kingdom
    Posts: 349
    I'd say three years is perfectly acceptable. Those '60s production line days are gone.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,466
    3 years is good enough. Anything more is kind of a bummer, but I’m getting used to it - especially because it will likely be at least 4 until B26 with a new actor.
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