The What if NTTD is the last EON produced Bond film? page 62

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  • Posts: 16,154
    I'd have loved a Frank Sinatra MR. I can easily picture him doing that one.
  • thedove wrote: »
    The theme for MR was offered to a few artists. Frank Sinatra and then Kate Bush were both offered and both turned it down.

    According to the Bulingame Music of James Bond book, FS was offered the song with different lyrics, an earlier version. He raved about the demo, but there was a an argument of disagreement between FS and Cubby, and FS never recorded the track. Paul Williams re-wrote the lyrics and it was offered to Bush.
    I'd love to hear the demo that Sinatra heard.
  • Posts: 2,917
    Sinatra probably wouldn't have been a good fit for the Bond film, just as his soundalike Matt Monro proved too sedate for FRWL. Sinatra's greatness was in expressing the poetry of a lyric in a deceptively conversational style. Bond songs on the other hand have lyrics that are a far cry from the sublimity of Cole Porter. They require belters who can match the bombast of Barry's sound and put silly, melodramatic lyrics across with brass and firepower. So the ideal male singer of a Bond song was someone like Tom Jones, who could work high-octane, unsubtle wonders with stuff like "Thunderball."
  • Posts: 4,044
    shamanimal wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    The theme for MR was offered to a few artists. Frank Sinatra and then Kate Bush were both offered and both turned it down.

    According to the Bulingame Music of James Bond book, FS was offered the song with different lyrics, an earlier version. He raved about the demo, but there was a an argument of disagreement between FS and Cubby, and FS never recorded the track. Paul Williams re-wrote the lyrics and it was offered to Bush.
    I'd love to hear the demo that Sinatra heard.

    I’d have thought Kate Bush would have wanted to write her own song.
  • Posts: 1,917
    I'd have liked to have been a fly on the wall at the conversation between Sinatra and Cubby, two headstrong, powerful men who weren't about to give an inch to get their way. He'd have been an interesting choice and link for the series.

    I confess to knowing nothing about Kate Bush. Heard of her, but she didn't get much if any exposure in the U.S., at least not to where I'd have heard of her in the smaller town I live in. If she wasn't on the top 40 then she'd have been an unknown to us.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,420
    Kate Bush didn't get on my radar until 1986 when she did a duet with Peter Gabriel called "Don't Give Up". I think she would have made for a different sounding title song as she doesn't strike me as the Bassey type.

    I really wish Frank had crooned a song as I think it would have been a classic. But then again I like Munro's version of FRWL. :)
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,420
    Okay folks time to reawaken the What if thread! Whether you want it or not! LOL!

    There was a recent "James Bond and Friends" podcast that dealt with filming the series in order after CR was released. In other words the follow up to CR in 2006 was not QOS but LALD remade for today's sensibilities. Lets play with that for our next "what if".

    CR comes out in 2006 and is a huge hit! Bond is back on the cultural radar and relevant again. Craig shows how a Bond can be a hero again for the audience of today. The producers are emboldened and decide it's time to revisit the novels and announce LALD is the next adventure starring Daniel Craig. What say you Mi6?

    What if for the Craig era the filmmakers decided to go back and update the novels and film them in order of the books. Would this had worked better then the original stories that we got. In other words would CR, LALD, MR, DAF remade closer to the stories of Fleming been better then CR, QOS, SF, SP. What if EON remade the books like CR but updated them for a modern audience?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited February 2020 Posts: 8,182
    That was an excellent podcast, and I look forward to possible follow ups on that with talking about how further novels would work with Craig.

    I already posted this on the podcast thread, but it applies to the new subject so I'll paste it below in quotes:

    "I loved the latest topic of cracking a modern LIVE AND LET DIE adaptation as the follow up to Craig's CASINO ROYALE. Had EON chose to go that route, I think a good casting for Buonapart Ignace Gallia (aka BIG) would have been Michael Clarke Duncan, as he was not only a good actor but would have had the right kind of presence and charisma for a main villain. I definitely would have gone the Mankiewicz route of casting an African-American actress, and I think Zoe Saldana would have been splendid."

    I stand by this comment, especially the casting of Zoe Saldana as Solitaire. I also liked the suggestion in the podcast that the villains could be linked to the Ugandan terrorists featured in CR.

    And given how loose CR was as an adaptation, stands to reason LALD would be about the same so you wouldn't necessarily have to tread the same waters like Felix being fed to a shark which LTK did and the yacht sequence in FYEO.


    To take this further, the thing to consider is that MGM will still have its financial issues which would put an adaptation of MR on indefinite hold, which is what happened with Bond 23 being pushed back from a 2011 release to 2012. So with that happening, it makes me wonder how EON would approach an MR adaptation, or even consider just going a different direction and we still get SKYFALL. Even so, MR would still have London featured prominently, still showing a display of British pride with the Olympics coinciding and so on.
  • Posts: 1,917
    Not a fan of the idea. There's just too much working against its success. I look no further than NSNA as an inferior take on TB. And besides that, how many of the films in the series are already loose remakes of prior films.

    With the pace these films are released, we wouldn't get to experience Craig's take on the Blofeld trilogy either, which would've been the necessary arc it needed to complete his journey. We may not like some of the things done with his five films, but at least the way they are continued and being tied up makes sense.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited February 2020 Posts: 7,546
    I'm not a fan of the idea either. Having just watched LALD yesterday, what we got was really something remarkable. Such a fun film with Moore, Seymour, Geoffrey Holder, Kotto, Julius Harris... And McCartney's theme, and how it's interwoven into the film... I feel as though a modern remake wouldn't stand up to comparison to the LALD we already have.

    It's interesting, having watched all the films and then reading the novels, my opinion was that every novel blew it's corresponding film out of the water. But now I'm going back and watching all the films again and finding new appreciation for all of them.

    Afterwards I'll likely read all the novels again (just got Folio Society's Casino Royale and would like to expand that collection), and then the films, repeat until I die.

    EDIT: Special shoutout to Geoffrey Holder, Baron Samedi in this film is absolutely inspired, IMO.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited February 2020 Posts: 8,182
    I think there’s enough to make updated adaptations of LALD, MR, and DAF feel very different that it’s not treading the same waters as the earlier films because the movies we did get were only loosely based on the novels, especially MR.

    It only gets really tricky once you hit FRWL as the fifth film, because it was already very faithfully adapted. And again this is all just fun hypothetical stuff, not something we’re seriously advocating for.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I was hoping they would go that route. The next actor would be introduced in DN.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    edited February 2020 Posts: 1,081
    I think there’s enough to make updated adaptations of LALD, MR, and DAF feel very different that it’s not treading the same waters as the earlier films because the movies we did get were only loosely based on the novels, especially MR.

    It only gets really tricky once you hit FRWL as the fifth film, because it was already very faithfully adapted. And again this is all just fun hypothetical stuff, not something we’re seriously advocating for.

    I wish they would faithfully adapt these novels in future films, though. It's such a shame because Moonraker is a personal favourite of mine and I feel would lend itself well to a modern movie. I am doubtful that we will ever see this material faithfully used in future films, though.
    I was hoping they would go that route. The next actor would be introduced in DN.

    Ironically (although I don't prescribe to this theory at all) with the rumours that Safin is Dr. No this would essentially be true to an extent.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,420
    Interesting takes on the scenario. I am torn, I don't like the idea of "remakes" but do like the idea of more closely adapting the novels. There is a lot there to be mined in my opinion. The MR plot is a real interesting one that I think that would work really well.

    The question for me how would you do them with the same titles but yet not have them viewed as remakes?
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,420
    I suppose you are right. But some of the audience may go in thinking they will see LALD with the voodoo and heroin plot angle and suddenly see a plot about coins in Jamaica. Might have to use the marketing budget to show the films are different.
  • Posts: 12,466
    I’m glad it didn’t happen personally. I think LALD is an excellent novel, but since much of it had already been adapted via the previous LALD film and LTK, I’m glad they went in a more original direction with QOS (which has nothing in common with the Fleming story). I’m interested in hyper-faithful Fleming adaptations of all the novels at some point, but that seems more likely to happen via a series on Netflix or something than the EON films. If given the opportunity for Craig to have done 5 standalones instead of a somewhat-connected continuity, I might take it, though I do love all of his first 3 as they are.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    thedove wrote: »
    Interesting takes on the scenario. I am torn, I don't like the idea of "remakes" but do like the idea of more closely adapting the novels. There is a lot there to be mined in my opinion. The MR plot is a real interesting one that I think that would work really well.

    The question for me how would you do them with the same titles but yet not have them viewed as remakes?

    I’d use alternate titles based of chapters. Like The Undertaker’s Wind.
  • Posts: 12,466
    One chapter title I love from LALD I’d love to see be a Bond movie title is The Silver Phantom. I think MR, DAF, TSWLM, YOLT, and TMWTGG are novels that can be significantly mined from still for future films. I’d also like to see The Hildebrand Rarity closely adapted.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    I'm glad they didn't do this.

    You could argue that certain Bond films are soft remakes of others, but an honest to goodness one wouldn't sit well with me, even if stuck closer to the source material.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    thedove wrote: »
    Interesting takes on the scenario. I am torn, I don't like the idea of "remakes" but do like the idea of more closely adapting the novels. There is a lot there to be mined in my opinion. The MR plot is a real interesting one that I think that would work really well.

    The question for me how would you do them with the same titles but yet not have them viewed as remakes?

    I’d use alternate titles based of chapters. Like The Undertaker’s Wind.

    Good call.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,288
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I’m glad it didn’t happen personally. I think LALD is an excellent novel, but since much of it had already been adapted via the previous LALD film and LTK, I’m glad they went in a more original direction with QOS (which has nothing in common with the Fleming story). I’m interested in hyper-faithful Fleming adaptations of all the novels at some point, but that seems more likely to happen via a series on Netflix or something than the EON films. If given the opportunity for Craig to have done 5 standalones instead of a somewhat-connected continuity, I might take it, though I do love all of his first 3 as they are.

    This is where I come down, too.

    LALD has been adapted more wholly than most of the novels, across several films. There are bits and pieces left, but not enough in my mind to justify rehashing the "been there, done that" aspects of the story (Felix's maiming, etc.).

    DAF also falls into this category of "mostly adapted."

    So:

    "Faithfully adapted": DN, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS, FYEO, R, TPOAL, TLD, CR

    "Mostly adapted": DAF, LALD, 0iNY

    "Half-adapted": MR, YOLT, TMWTGG, THR

    "Never adapted": FAVTAK, QoS, OP

    There has been some "crypto-adaptation" of the "half-adapted" categories (namely, GE, DAD, and SF), but they could still go back to the original Fleming stories.

    If Eon wants to come out blazing with Fleming and the next actor in B26, I still think they should look to exactly what they did with CR and do MR.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,420
    I like that idea @echo I could see it as a good starting point with a new Bond. You'd have a gambling scene but not the whole plot of the movie. Also a movie where Bond doesn't get the girl.
  • Live and Let Die the novel is so racist it would be unfilmable now word for word. There is a chapter called "N.....r Heaven". Not Flemings finest hour however well written the book is.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I'm glad they didn't to be honest, it would have been looked at negatively by press and some fans as uninspired. Although Quantum wasn't a favourite of mine, I appreciate the effort of trying something new
    There is a lot they could still mine from the novel's though, a lot of Moonraker and the whole A View To A Kill undercover segment would translate well to film I think
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    Live and Let Die the novel is so racist it would be unfilmable now word for word. There is a chapter called "N.....r Heaven". Not Flemings finest hour however well written the book is.

    That would obviously be heavily altered in a film adaptation, much like CR was heavily altered for 2006.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited February 2020 Posts: 6,288
    thedove wrote: »
    I like that idea @echo I could see it as a good starting point with a new Bond. You'd have a gambling scene but not the whole plot of the movie. Also a movie where Bond doesn't get the girl.

    And also cheaper, as far as locations go, for the new Bond's first outing. Despite MR being mined for parts in MR, GE, and DAD, it's very surprising that they haven't filmed it faithfully yet, especially as the follow-up to QoS. I wonder if Babs is holding it back for some reason.

    As an aside, did you know MR was not part of the original novel package optioned by Broccoli and Saltzman? They supposedly didn't get the rights until the late '60s.

    Anyway, to answer the original question, I don't think LALD would have worked as a follow-up to CR, but MR would have.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited February 2020 Posts: 8,182
    But again, if there was a LALD film as a follow up to Craig's debut, we have to assume it wouldn't at all be like the novel, much like how the CR film was not like the novel.

    That's why I find it fascinating as a topic, because they could not only add new stuff to the adaptation but discard the stuff that was already adapted like Leiter being maimed and the climax with the yacht over coral reef. Bond wasn't chasing bombers in Miami airport in the CR novel, who knows what would have been added on top of LALD. It wouldn't be a straight up adaptation.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,420
    Agreed @MakeshiftPython and I really liked the idea of the Ugandan villains from CR returning as the heavies for LALD. There is a good story there that hasn't been used in terms of plot. Sure some plot points are already used but even then they could be updated to reflect modern times.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,288
    thedove wrote: »
    Agreed @MakeshiftPython and I really liked the idea of the Ugandan villains from CR returning as the heavies for LALD. There is a good story there that hasn't been used in terms of plot. Sure some plot points are already used but even then they could be updated to reflect modern times.

    Yes, except that the major plot turns of LALD ("He disagreed with something that ate him," the keelhauling, etc.) had already been used to great effect in the film series.

    As opposed to MR, which has the flamethrower sequence, entire characters, and an ending left to use.

    The more I think about it, LALD the novel is very dependent upon the black villain network, which would make a modern adaptation tough to pull off without feeling horribly dated.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    echo wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    Agreed @MakeshiftPython and I really liked the idea of the Ugandan villains from CR returning as the heavies for LALD. There is a good story there that hasn't been used in terms of plot. Sure some plot points are already used but even then they could be updated to reflect modern times.

    Yes, except that the major plot turns of LALD ("He disagreed with something that ate him," the keelhauling, etc.) had already been used to great effect in the film series.

    As opposed to MR, which has the flamethrower sequence, entire characters, and an ending left to use.

    The more I think about it, LALD the novel is very dependent upon the black villain network, which would make a modern adaptation tough to pull off without feeling horribly dated.

    That’s why it’s suggested they could change the black American gangster angle with the Ugandan terrorists featured in CR. It not only updates the villains for modern times but also ties in with what was already set up in CR.
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