The What if NTTD is the last EON produced Bond film? page 62

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  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    Posts: 280
    Even though it was wrtten specifically for Dalton's Bond, I am oddly curious as to how Brosnan would've done with LTK. As you said @thedove, he was capable of doing something darker.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 2020 Posts: 16,427
    Just looking at this, he does look quite high up. He did have some sort of harness on I hope..? !

    EYSWo6_WAAAuEp9?format=jpg&name=medium
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,434
    It sure doesn't look like it but then I guess a safety harness wouldn't be meant to be seen. ;)

    He looks cool in the pose though!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,427
    How long a sock does Bond wear, incidentally? :D
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,434
    Great question! Judging by the photo it would appear to be knee highs! LOL!

    Here's another fun "what if". When the series was first started Terence Young had envisioned Sylvia Trench as the girl that Bond would always leave behind for his adventures. First seen in DN and then again in FRWL the original concept was Sylvia would continue to appear in future movies. With a new director for GF that concept was abandoned and Sylvia was only used in the first 2 films never to be seen or heard from again.

    But was this the right decision? I find having her in the first two films added some continuity and makes the films stronger cause they are tied together. It gave a glimpse of Bond away from Mi6 and allowed us to see some other parts of his life.

    What say you Mi6? Was the right decision made? Could more had been done with dear Sylvia or was the series right to only have her in a couple of films?

    What if Sylvia Trench had appeared in future adventures?
  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    edited May 2020 Posts: 280
    As someone who always appreciates continuity and recurring characters in the series, it would've been nice to have a sort of 'regular' Bond girl for Connery. In terms of where Trench could fit:

    GF - girl in the tub in PTS (obviously an unwitting pawn instead of a honey trap)

    TB - the woman with Bond at Bouvard's funeral

    YOLT - replacing Ling...or perhaps even Aki? The role would have to be rewritten, of course, but seeing the poison drip down her throat would definitely have an impact after 5 films.
  • I've always been disappointed that Young didn't call Eunice Gayson back for Thunderball. Sure, Hamilton wasn't interested in the character, but that shouldn't have prevented her return. With Sylvia Trench as a regular character, I think the movies, or at least the Connery era, would have been more sensitive to Bond's personal life, outside of his service. This would have lead to a certain number of rewritings to allow these moments to exist.

    For Thunderball, perhaps Trench would have waited for Bond when he left the clinic, and would be angry to see him leave immediately for his urgent briefing. Perhaps she could even have been in the car with him when Lippe tried to attack him. As for YOLT, I imagine that she would have had her role during the PTS. It's easier to see her, rather than Miss Caruso, at the start of LALD, in bed with Bond, even if I doubt that the character would have lasted after Connery's term.

    Anyway, I very much regret the the character's dismissal from the series and I really hope that the next era will introduce a similar character that would allow to show Bond's personal life.
  • Posts: 1,917
    I really think they quit with Sylvia at just the right time. Introduced in DN and continued in FRWL. Joke done and not overextended.

    It would've been an unnecessary way to slow the films down to include her along with the obligatory office scenes. She would also make the flirtations with Moneypenny redundant. It would also make Bond look like more of a cad to have a steady girlfriend and then go off galivanting all over seducing girls whether it's for the job or not. Better he not be tied down to one woman.

    Lastly, can you imagine how to handle a Sylvia Trench scene in OHMSS?
  • Posts: 15,125
    I wished they had kept Sylvia Trench a bit longer, but the essence of her character is being Bond's lover when not on mission and he oblivious to his real job. So the risk was high that they overused her and become a caricature of the original character.

    So IF they had kept her for more movies, I see her making a short appearance in TB and OHMSS, when Bond is in the UK, and still be the character we know and love. In GF and YOLT it would really have stretched credibility and hurt her character. Had she been used in DAF I can see Hamilton turning her into a pure ditz, keeping her unaware of Bond's true nature even when it is obvious. And that would have been the end of her.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    I wonder if it would have been interesting if they brought her back in Skyfall (as the film takes place largely in London) or Spectre (she could have been the woman in Bond's apartment when Moneypenny comes in, maybe Bond could have just referenced her as "Sylvia" as a little nod to the fans).
  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    Posts: 280
    I wonder if it would have been interesting if they brought her back in Skyfall (as the film takes place largely in London) or Spectre (she could have been the woman in Bond's apartment when Moneypenny comes in, maybe Bond could have just referenced her as "Sylvia" as a little nod to the fans).
    Apparently they considered making Hatcher's character in TND a recast Sylvia instead of Paris.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    That would have been cool.
  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    Posts: 280
    That would have been cool.
    It definitely would've made Kaufman killing the character more impactful if it was a past Bond girl (recast or not).
  • Agent_One wrote: »
    It definitely would've made Kaufman killing the character more impactful if it was a past Bond girl (recast or not).
    Given the hiatus between the Brosnan era and what preceded, I don't think the return of a Bond Girl from the Dalton years would have had a big impact on the audience at the time. Similarly, a recasted Sylvia Trench would have been seen by the general audience as a new character and would have been nothing more than a nice easter egg. Not that I would not have liked it as a Bond fan, but I doubt that many would have been receptive to it.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    Agent_One wrote: »
    That would have been cool.
    It definitely would've made Kaufman killing the character more impactful if it was a past Bond girl (recast or not).

    Yes and given Brosnan a bit more history and context with the character to play off of perhaps. A lot of that drama would have landed better with the fans, and it would have made no difference to those who didn't know her from Dr. No.

    Damn, why didn't they do this. :(
  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    edited May 2020 Posts: 280
    @Herr_Stockmann but you see, it could only be a positive thing. For the uninitiated, it would be like Paris in the actual film; a new figure from Bond's romantic past. But for the diehard fans such as ourselves, it would be a nice bit of continuity and, as you say, an easter egg.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,306
    I think the filmmakers wisely realized that they didn't need both Trench and Moneypenny.
  • Agent_One wrote: »
    But for the diehard fans such as ourselves, it would be a nice bit of continuity and, as you say, an easter egg.
    Oh, I agree with you, it's always nice, but it might have been too late for Sylvia Trench, simple personal feeling. I guess the character who would have had the most impact would have been Natalya Simonova, or Pam Bouvier. Nevertheless, I continue to hope to see a similar character becoming a real supporting cast member in the next era.
  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    edited May 2020 Posts: 280
    echo wrote: »
    I think the filmmakers wisely realized that they didn't need both Trench and Moneypenny.
    Ironically, Lois Maxwell was also offered the role of Sylvia Trench in DN.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    Agent_One wrote: »
    But for the diehard fans such as ourselves, it would be a nice bit of continuity and, as you say, an easter egg.
    Oh, I agree with you, it's always nice, but it might have been too late for Sylvia Trench, simple personal feeling. I guess the character who would have had the most impact would have been Natalya Simonova, or Pam Bouvier. Nevertheless, I continue to hope to see a similar character becoming a real supporting cast member in the next era.

    Sylvia would have had more impact in this scenario for me than Natalya or Pam. Sylvia felt like a bit more a long term relationship, which is what TND had Paris represent.
  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    Posts: 280
    Agent_One wrote: »
    But for the diehard fans such as ourselves, it would be a nice bit of continuity and, as you say, an easter egg.
    Oh, I agree with you, it's always nice, but it might have been too late for Sylvia Trench, simple personal feeling. I guess the character who would have had the most impact would have been Natalya Simonova, or Pam Bouvier. Nevertheless, I continue to hope to see a similar character becoming a real supporting cast member in the next era.

    Sylvia would have had more impact in this scenario for me than Natalya or Pam. Sylvia felt like a bit more a long term relationship, which is what TND had Paris represent.
    Another option for that would've been Tiffany Case, who spent nearly a year living with Bond in the books. Actually Hatcher, does give off kind of a Jill St. John vibe to me...
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    Agent_One wrote: »
    Agent_One wrote: »
    But for the diehard fans such as ourselves, it would be a nice bit of continuity and, as you say, an easter egg.
    Oh, I agree with you, it's always nice, but it might have been too late for Sylvia Trench, simple personal feeling. I guess the character who would have had the most impact would have been Natalya Simonova, or Pam Bouvier. Nevertheless, I continue to hope to see a similar character becoming a real supporting cast member in the next era.

    Sylvia would have had more impact in this scenario for me than Natalya or Pam. Sylvia felt like a bit more a long term relationship, which is what TND had Paris represent.
    Another option for that would've been Tiffany Case, who spent nearly a year living with Bond in the books. Actually Hatcher, does give off kind of a Jill St. John vibe to me...

    True, also would have been cool. Doesn't Case dump Bond for an American in the end?
  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    Posts: 280
    Agent_One wrote: »
    Agent_One wrote: »
    But for the diehard fans such as ourselves, it would be a nice bit of continuity and, as you say, an easter egg.
    Oh, I agree with you, it's always nice, but it might have been too late for Sylvia Trench, simple personal feeling. I guess the character who would have had the most impact would have been Natalya Simonova, or Pam Bouvier. Nevertheless, I continue to hope to see a similar character becoming a real supporting cast member in the next era.

    Sylvia would have had more impact in this scenario for me than Natalya or Pam. Sylvia felt like a bit more a long term relationship, which is what TND had Paris represent.
    Another option for that would've been Tiffany Case, who spent nearly a year living with Bond in the books. Actually Hatcher, does give off kind of a Jill St. John vibe to me...

    True, also would have been cool. Doesn't Case dump Bond for an American in the end?
    Yep. Bond is actually pretty torn up about in FRWL. He seemed to genuinely love her.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited May 2020 Posts: 7,553
    Agent_One wrote: »
    Agent_One wrote: »
    Agent_One wrote: »
    But for the diehard fans such as ourselves, it would be a nice bit of continuity and, as you say, an easter egg.
    Oh, I agree with you, it's always nice, but it might have been too late for Sylvia Trench, simple personal feeling. I guess the character who would have had the most impact would have been Natalya Simonova, or Pam Bouvier. Nevertheless, I continue to hope to see a similar character becoming a real supporting cast member in the next era.

    Sylvia would have had more impact in this scenario for me than Natalya or Pam. Sylvia felt like a bit more a long term relationship, which is what TND had Paris represent.
    Another option for that would've been Tiffany Case, who spent nearly a year living with Bond in the books. Actually Hatcher, does give off kind of a Jill St. John vibe to me...

    True, also would have been cool. Doesn't Case dump Bond for an American in the end?
    Yep. Bond is actually pretty torn up about in FRWL. He seemed to genuinely love her.

    I feel like I remember Horowitz did the exact same thing with Galore in Trigger Mortis, is that accurate?

    I desperately need a re-read of the novels.
  • Agent_One wrote: »
    Another option for that would've been Tiffany Case, who spent nearly a year living with Bond in the books. Actually Hatcher, does give off kind of a Jill St. John vibe to me...
    I think that I would have really liked such path. And I agree with you about this kind of Jill St. John vibe. It could have been an interesting what if.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    I think it may have been a problem to take a character so inextricably linked to Diamonds are Forever and made her the main Bond girl of TND as well. To me Sylvia’s in the background enough that she would have been a cool call back, but nothing distracting.
  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    Posts: 280
    Agent_One wrote: »
    Another option for that would've been Tiffany Case, who spent nearly a year living with Bond in the books. Actually Hatcher, does give off kind of a Jill St. John vibe to me...
    I think that I would have really liked such path. And I agree with you about this kind of Jill St. John vibe. It could have been an interesting what if.
    Yeah, it would've been very interesting. The only problem is that JSH and Hatcher don't look very alike, but there've been worse recastings.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,434
    Wow! I didn't expect this kind of response to the idea. Great thoughts from all and some real interesting perspectives where they could have taken the character.

    While I agree that to have her in every film might have been too much. I would have liked to have seen her in TB. Or maybe have her referenced in some way. The fact she didn't know what James did for a living was also something that was different from his other women.

    I LOVE the idea of an Easter Egg with TND and having her named Sylvia Carver. Just leave it for the fans to decide if it's Trench or not. It would play both ways. I would love to see them use a previous actress in this way and have Bond cross paths with the person. The one that makes the most sense for me is Camille from QOS. But I doubt that will happen in this round of films.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Agent_One wrote: »
    Another option for that would've been Tiffany Case, who spent nearly a year living with Bond in the books. Actually Hatcher, does give off kind of a Jill St. John vibe to me...

    ITA. Their scenes and dialogue reminded me of the Bond/Tiffany scenes in DAF. And I could easily picture Tiffany marrying Carver for his millions in order to retrieve the diamonds in Blofeld's laser satellite.
    thedove wrote: »
    Great question! Judging by the photo it would appear to be knee highs! LOL!

    Here's another fun "what if". When the series was first started Terence Young had envisioned Sylvia Trench as the girl that Bond would always leave behind for his adventures. First seen in DN and then again in FRWL the original concept was Sylvia would continue to appear in future movies. With a new director for GF that concept was abandoned and Sylvia was only used in the first 2 films never to be seen or heard from again.

    But was this the right decision? I find having her in the first two films added some continuity and makes the films stronger cause they are tied together. It gave a glimpse of Bond away from Mi6 and allowed us to see some other parts of his life.

    What say you Mi6? Was the right decision made? Could more had been done with dear Sylvia or was the series right to only have her in a couple of films?

    What if Sylvia Trench had appeared in future adventures?

    I think the original plan was that there would only be 4 or 5 Bond films. Sylvia was to appear at the beginning of each adventure and then at the last one she would be the primary leading lady. The film and the series would end with Bond marrying Miss Trench and they would live happily ever after(no being murdered by Blofeld and/or any other villain on their wedding day). This idea of course was being proposed in 1961/early 1962. Fleming's OHMSS novel would not be published until 1963 so Tracy didn't exist yet.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 2020 Posts: 16,427
    Sylvia doesn't really interest me. Bond having a f*** buddy at home doesn't really add much of anything for me. The FRWL scene is fun and everything but I wouldn't need a repeat of that.
    Is her surname supposed to be sexy filthy? Because it's kind of horrible! :D
    Agent_One wrote: »
    That would have been cool.
    It definitely would've made Kaufman killing the character more impactful if it was a past Bond girl (recast or not).

    Yes and given Brosnan a bit more history and context with the character to play off of perhaps. A lot of that drama would have landed better with the fans, and it would have made no difference to those who didn't know her from Dr. No.

    Damn, why didn't they do this. :(

    TND suggesting the idea that Sylvia "got too close" would seem rather ridiculous though, considering we only ever really saw them using each other for casual sex and then he'd run off to another country, shag someone else, and not contact Sylvia for six months.
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