The What if NTTD is the last EON produced Bond film? page 62

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,287
    007HallY wrote: »
    Sorry for the thread necro, but after NTTD coming out in itself I wonder about what Boyle's film would've looked like. When he walked out, I remember a rumour that he was let go because he threw around the idea of killing Bond. That one is pretty funny in hindsight.

    Yes, from what has come out subsequently it seems that Craig and the producers had that ending in mind as well as Bond having a daughter very early on. They were incorporated into Boyle's script and do not seem to have been an issue.

    From what I've heard his script seems to have involved Bond going to modern day Russia, the plot having something to do with his origins, and for a good chunk of it he would have been imprisoned. I suspect problems started because a) it sounds like a strange script anyway, very hard to get right, and even in 2018 setting a big franchise film in Russia would have been politically questionable, and b) Boyle is a very impressionistic filmmaker who often blurs the lines between reality and fantasy in his films. One can imagine Bond hallucinating while in prison as if he was in 127 Hours or something. It's just not quite right for a Bond film.

    The child came from Boyle/Hodge.

    https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/no-time-to-die-danny-boyle-john-hodge-discuss-russia-plot?id=05051
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,615
    If Danny Boyle directed, expect more Oscar favorites for EON for the foreseeable future. It’ll probably still happen.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited May 2022 Posts: 3,787
    Let Purvis and Wade rest for a while.
    I want to see this script, please have both Boyle and Hodge back, I'm interested in their take, based on the script that they've made, they could make some unique and new ideas for Bond.
  • Posts: 15,110
    I honestly think it would have been a Boyle movie for than a Bond movie and been received poorly overall.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,416
    The Dove has returned! Bumped my head and got programmed by the Russians. Just completed my tour with Sir James Maloney and I seem to be back in good form. It was fascinating to see all the posts in my absence. Great discussion about Boyle and what might have been!

    Time for another What If...what if Bab's and Michael, hadn't negotiated for Craig to return for NTTD? What if SP was his final Bond and a new Bond cast for the next film? Who do you think could have had the role back in 2016 and what kind of film would have the next film turned out to be? I guess in essence I am asking what if Craig hadn't starred in NTTD?
  • I think there's a reasonable chance Cavill might have been cast in 2016. His obligations to DC as Superman were just wrapping up with Justice League. We've obviously had no Man of Steel sequel in the time since. I suspect Cavill might have used the prospect of becoming 007 as a negotiating tactic with Warner Bros. and if they didn't meet his salary demands, I could see him happily jumping ship to Bond. Martin Campbell was certainly still interested in action-driven spy stories as he was gearing up for The Foreigner with Pierce Brosnan around that time. Cavill was Campbell's preferred choice back in 2005. I could easily see a Campbell/Cavill team-up having occurred for B25 if Craig hadn't returned. Honestly it still could happen, though I think the odds for it were even more favorable six years ago.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited June 2022 Posts: 3,787
    Welcome back! @thedove before I became a member of this forum, I'm always checking your games, I'm really entertained while reading them.

    If SPECTRE had been Craig's last, it's for the better I think, because I think that film was really planned as his final movie.

    I'm not sure about Cavill, there's a possibility EON would not go for an A-list, big name actor, and he's already known as Superman at the time, so EON would not likely to go with him, and also at the time, he deemed expensive.

    I'm looking at those British actors who'd been in the Oscar winning films, or those who'd won an Oscar in 2015, possibly an Indie Film British actor or a British TV actor, typical of how Craig started in Layer Cake.

    So, let's say Eddie Redmayne (the best actor of 2015 Oscars) and not an over popular actor like Cavill or Hardy.
    Or maybe Benedict Cumberbatch (he's in the 2015 Oscar winning picture Birdman), there's a possibility that he would have been picked.

    So here's might would've happened:

    1. A Complete Reboot, yes leaving the Craig Era, EON would likely to reboot the franchise, no SPECTRE, no references from the Craig Era.
    2. The director would likely to be Danny Boyle and Hodge would be in the script.
    3. Since, this is not Craig, their original idea of a Russian baddie would likely to come true, Polish actor Tomasz Kot was hired as the Bond Villain.
    4. But unlike in the real life where the original script was to kill Bond and give him a child, this would be different, it would be similar to Goldeneye and as Boyle said a Modern Cold War thriller, but like with the Craig Era, it would still be gritty and serious, no outlandishness involved, maybe there would be involving an Elektra King situation where the Bond Girl is revealed to be a villain.
    5. Unlike in the Craig Era, the era of this Bond Actor would likely to have a floating continuity, like in the classic era, no interconnected arc, we would have a set of standalone films again.

    The only challenge that this new Bond actor and this new Bond film would be facing was the COVID-19 pandemic, it would suffer the same fate as No Time To Die, unless the pandemic hadn't happened in this universe.

    So, maybe similar to No Time To Die, the first Bond film of the 7th Bond actor would likely to be released in 2021 too.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited June 2022 Posts: 554
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    The only challenge that this new Bond actor and this new Bond film would be facing was the COVID-19 pandemic, it would suffer the same fate as No Time To Die, unless the pandemic hadn't happened in this universe.

    So, maybe similar to No Time To Die, the first Bond film of the 7th Bond actor would likely to be released in 2021 too.
    If Boyle stays on there's no overhaul of the script, meaning it very likely comes out in late 2019 as was originally scheduled. Or maybe even earlier depending on when Craig is definitively out.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited June 2022 Posts: 3,152
    If SP had been Craig's last? Bond hasn't left MI6, he's just 'gone' in the sense that he's gone on holiday! Madeleine's not pregnant, not the love of his life and their relationship's not likely to last long beyond the end of the vacation. CraigBond's always out there somewhere in a sort of permanent present, a force of nature taking the fight to the nutjobs and bad guys.
    Where the series would've gone and where we'd be now? Hmmm...
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,773
    In SP Bond refused to kill the villain, tossed his Walther PPK, and walked off to be with the woman he loved saying he had better things to do. Later they drove off together, away from MI6.

  • Posts: 4,122
    Would it have been better if Craig's last Bond film had been SP? I'd say that ultimately depends on how Bond 26 turns out.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,416
    007HallY wrote: »
    Would it have been better if Craig's last Bond film had been SP? I'd say that ultimately depends on how Bond 26 turns out.

    Interesting thought. If he had ended things in SP we would have had the opportunity for a more traditional hand-off and the next man would have carried the PPK. Would they have opted to try to keep continuation going? Or would they simply start over?

    I still don't think their use of Spectre as an organization was done right and I would hope that wouldn't have died with Craig leaving.
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    edited June 2022 Posts: 541
    If Spectre were the last one, it would've been odds and evens.
    Casino, high.
    Quantum, I enjoy it, but for the general public, low.
    Skyfall, high.
    Spectre, low.

    We wouldn't have gotten to see much of the mean/average.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,169
    I rate all five of Craig's films very high. With or without NTTD, his tenure would have been great, especially given the problematic conditions they had to work in these past ten or so years.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    As much as I have my complaints about NTTD, I'm really happy Spectre wasn't Craig's last. It was great to see him fully fit and at his best nailing the role one last time

    If Spectre had been his last, I still think we would have had a hiatus of some sort, because most of the distributors were only interested if Craig was returning.

    Then eventually I think we would have had a Turner/Hiddleston Bond, probably in a new timeline but in the same vein as the Craig era. I think they would have tried avoid some of the mistakes that were made in Spectre and probably looked to avoid the scooby gang and past coming back to haunt Bond stuff. Whishaw might have carried over as Q though
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    I'm glad SP wasn't Craig's last because I wanted as many CraigBond films as we could get! ;)
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,416
    This what if has bubbled up recently with OP hitting the cinemas again.

    Seems that James Brolin was screen tested and cast to play James Bond in OP. This would have been interesting as his version would have gone up against Connery's NSNA. Not sure what Broccoli and company were thinking on this one. I know that there had been this idea of an American Bond before, notably for DAF. The screen tests I watch all had Brolin not attempting an English accent and playing it straight. I must say he handles himself quite well in the fisticuffs. Not sure his acting in the love scenes was as believable.

    Would Brolin in OP been able to beat Connery and NSNA at the box office? Would this had changed the course of the series. Would Brolin become, like Lazenby, a one and done Bond, or would he had continued in the role?

    What say you Mi6? What if James Brolin had played James Bond in OP?
  • thedove wrote: »
    What say you Mi6? What if James Brolin had played James Bond in OP?
    First of all, I don't think Brolin's OP would have been able to beat Connery and NSNA at the box office. I guess the movie would probably have been a success; its ability to narrow the gap with NSNA at the box office would be based on Eon's marketing campaign and this latter point is difficult to evaluate.

    With an effective promotional campaign, OP could have come close to NSNA and Brolin would have come back for AVTAK. However, with a dull campaign, it could easily be a box office deception, far from NSNA and indeed Brolin could have become, like Lazenby, a one and done Bond.

    Regarding the movie itself, I don't think it would have been so different from what we ultimately got: the more outlandish elements would probably have been trimmed as I don't imagine Brolin as a clown or yelling like Tarzan; I also imagine an emphasis would have been made on action scenes.

    Other differences could have come from the supporting cast: Brown was apparently hired to portray M on the recommendation of Moore; without Moore onboard, would Brown would have been hired? Also, I don't think Maxwell's Moneypenny would have been back: Michaela Clavell was clearly set up as a remplacement and it's easy to imagine that with a younger Bond, she would have had the Moneypenny part directly.

    To be honest I like Brolin in these screentests, I think he was convincing and could have been a good choice.
  • Posts: 7,414
    The only film I liked Brolin in was 'Westworld' and even in that he's overshadowed by everyone else. He's not a great actor, a critic once described him as giving "a speaking clock" performance! I have watched the screentests and he's pretty poor in them. But for me, OP is Moores best Bond, so I really wouldn't have it any other way, Tarzan yell and all. They were probably right to hold onto him as they thought they were going head to head with Connerys return. What the Producers made the mistake was keeping him on for the next one!
    Rog should have been allowed sail off into the Sunset with Octopussy!
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    The only film I liked Brolin in was 'Westworld' and even in that he's overshadowed by everyone else. He's not a great actor, a critic once described him as giving "a speaking clock" performance! I have watched the screentests and he's pretty poor in them. But for me, OP is Moores best Bond, so I really wouldn't have it any other way, Tarzan yell and all. They were probably right to hold onto him as they thought they were going head to head with Connerys return. What the Producers made the mistake was keeping him on for the next one!
    Rog should have been allowed sail off into the Sunset with Octopussy!
    Spot on.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    The only film I liked Brolin in was 'Westworld' and even in that he's overshadowed by everyone else. He's not a great actor, a critic once described him as giving "a speaking clock" performance! I have watched the screentests and he's pretty poor in them.

    Agree about that. I think the only film I remember seeing him in is The Amityville Horror, which I liked at the time, but that was a long time ago. He played opposite Margot Kidder, but I can t say I remember how they fared. I think I remember some screaming, which is always annoying. (Not from him)
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Brolin was ok as George Lutz, I guess, but Margot's ballet exercises made a bigger impression on my younger self, tbh... I'm glad that Brolin wasn't Bond and agree with others that a Brolin OP most likely wouldn't've have beaten NSNA. Also that it might've been better if OP had been Sir Rog's last.
  • Posts: 1,630
    I don't think Brolin was seriously under consideration. I believe he was negotiation fodder between the producers and R Moore. Any time they reportedly considered an American - such as Adam West, Burt Reynolds - I don't think it was genuine. At the very least - I am glad it never happened...
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited July 2022 Posts: 6,287
    Brolin is a terrible, awful, not-very-good actor and I'm glad it didn't happen.

    However.

    If he was still Bond in 1996, he could have brought Barbra Streisand with him, to sing a theme song. Head. Explodes.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,416
    Since62 wrote: »
    I don't think Brolin was seriously under consideration. I believe he was negotiation fodder between the producers and R Moore. Any time they reportedly considered an American - such as Adam West, Burt Reynolds - I don't think it was genuine. At the very least - I am glad it never happened...

    According to a recent report, Brolin had been promised the role and was making arrangements to come live in England for the shoot. It could have been a ploy, but for Broccoli and company to film screen tests, and to basically tell him the part is his, I think suggests otherwise.

    Remember for DAF Gavin was actually paid $250,000 for NOT appearing in DAF.

    Good point @echo having Ms. Streisand belting out a Bond title seems like a match made in heaven.
  • Posts: 15,110
    Brolin as Bond would have hurt the franchise badly, maybe killed it. Especially pitted against NSNA. And I think only Moore could sell the clown sequence.
  • Posts: 1,630
    Great Scot ! It seems the producers at that time felt they could do darn near anything and it would have been A-OK. Gavin would have been more understandable, based on his appearance and voice, but Brolin ? I like him enough, generally, but...
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,416
    Here is the screen test of the fight scene. I see some of the moves harking back to OHMSS

    https://youtu.be/LhkUWMJoccQ



    The one below is for the love scene. Played opposite Maud Adams which is interesting.

    https://youtu.be/ksjXilVYIxw
  • Posts: 1,630
    They always used the first meeting of Bond with the leading lady scene out of FRWL for the love scene screen tests, as I recall. As for that fight scene...ugh. Not good. And let's not even get to the part about being British, the voice, etc. Brolin moved on to the very popular Hotel TV series at around this time, for which he was much better cast. Somewhat ironically, the EON production after OP was AVTAK, filmed partially in San Francisco - the setting of Hotel - and during the time the show still was running. I wonder whether Brolin was invited to the set in SF on any occasion. Might have been weird vis-a-vis R Moore, but if ever there were someone who would not take offense and could genuinely enjoy, it seems that would be R Moore.
  • Posts: 1,917
    Brolin got his chance to play secret agent and played it very well, IMO - P.W. Herman at the end of Pee Wee's Big Adventure.
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