The What if NTTD is the last EON produced Bond film? page 62

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  • Posts: 2,161
    Venutius wrote: »
    Raquel Welch would clearly have been great in TB, but to be honest I'd rather have the world in which Claudine played Domino and Raquel made 1,000,000 Years BC. Win-win.

    Now I am happy with Claudine, but as a boy in the '60s I was in love with Raquel Welch (just like everyone else). I would have been overjoyed to see her in any Bond film.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2023 Posts: 3,152
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    heavy Yorkshire accent is one of the occasions when I prefer to have English subtitles activated.
    Yeah, I used to have the subtitles on for Rab C. Nesbitt, but then found myself 'tuning in' to the broad Glaswegian after a while. Mind you, I remember one bit in Auf Wiedersehen Pet where Jimmy Nail said something that was so Geordie it was utterly unintelligible. Funny, though! A lot of the old-style Yorkshire accent and dialect has gone now (unless you go to Barnsley!) - there's people under 30 who've lived in Yorkshire all their lives who can't understand me if I speak broad Yorkshire. Which I don't do very often, but it does amuse me to do it every now and again!

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,215
    She would have been a wonderful Bond girl ; as much as I like Jill St. John, I think Raquel would have been better as Tiffany Case.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Shirley Eaton's real voice can be heard in the first episode of The Saint ("The Talented Husband"). Eaton gives a good performance and is easy to understand in that episode. I never understood why she was dubbed in GF.
    Well, I don't really know, since I don't think I've ever seen a single episode of "The Saint". It was aired on German TV when I was five or six under the title of "Simon Templar", but I could have only seen it dubbed in German if my parents had allowed it in the first place. Just like my later experiences with The Avengers were in German, which I have corrected by buying DVD/BD sets with the original sound

    The decision to dub a character is not always easy to understand. Nikki van der Zyl, who (apart from her numerous re-voicing jobs) was hired as a voice coach for Gert Fröbe with his English lines in GF, said it would have been perfectly ok to keep his own voice for the movie (once she was done ;-)). Though I must say that Michael Collins did such a perfect job in dubbing Fröbe that it took my wife and myself years to realize that it wasn't Fröbe's voice in the English version. While it was totally obvious that he dubbed himself in the German version, and quite terrifically so...provided one accepts movies in another language than the original.

    Am I wrong, but isn't the Frobe dubbing brighter, lighter, and dare I say, more golden than his actual voice?
  • talos7 wrote: »
    She would have been a wonderful Bond girl ; as much as I like Jill St. John, I think Raquel would have been better as Tiffany Case.
    Definitely. Of all the Bond Girls, Tiffany Case is probably the one that would have suited Raquel Welch the most! Maybe opposite George Lazenby? After Diana Rigg, I feel like Broccoli and Saltzman would have continued with a big profile star to pair Lazenby with, more than Jill St. John.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,431
    Okay lets move to another female casting choice.

    It's the 40th anniversary of Bond approaching and we are eagerly awaiting Beyond the Ice...no sorry Die Another Day! it is announced that Halle Berry will play Jinx and be the main female lead. However other actresses were up for the role and one of those actresses was and still is one of my celebrity crushes. Salma Hayek!

    Salma was either offered the role, or was in serious consideration for the role. In 2004 her and Pierce shared the screen and some wonderful chemistry in After the Sunset. So my dear Mi6 community. What if Salma was cast as Jinx in Die Another Day. Does she elevate the role? Does she do the role better than Halle? Can we see EON offering her a movie franchise and giving Jinx a stand-alone film?

    What if Salma Hayek was cast as Jinx In Die Another Day?
  • thedove wrote: »
    What if Salma Hayek was cast as Jinx In Die Another Day?
    Didn't we already discuss this question on page 31? Anyway, I don't think it would have changed much. Berry is a good actress and she couldn't do much with that role; so I doubt Hayek would have done better.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    thedove wrote: »
    What if Salma Hayek was cast as Jinx In Die Another Day?

    MV5BZjAxNmFiMjktNzE0MC00MTEwLTlmZmItZThkOTk4ODQxY2Y0XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMzkyOTg1MzE@._V1_.jpg
    Well, Jinx coming out of the water would have been an even more memorable scene.

    In all seriousness, it's probably the same film with perhaps better chemistry between the leads and a more exotic Bond girl.

    I've not seen After The Sunset, but I read Salma and Pierce have great chemistry in it.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    The movie would still be terrible.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited March 2023 Posts: 3,789
    The problem was not on Halle Berry, it's on the script, so whoever who played that role, it would still be terrible.

    Halle Berry was wasted on that film, as so was the whole cast, they've been given bad material and script to worked with.

    I believe that Toby Stephens, Rosamund Pike, Halle Berry were all great actors/actresses, but none of them had saved the script, so whoever cast in that film couldn't able to save it.

    Replace the director, the scriptwriters, and it would be better, even retaining the same cast.

    Salma Hayek is sexy, but I don't know in whom Bond Girl or what Bond Girl she would fit. Even Christmas Jones, I mean I couldn't also see her playing a Nuclear Physicist 😅, she couldn't sell it either, it needs a matured, serious (not so sexy) actress to make it believable, not just an eye candy like Hayek, Michelle Pfeiffer would have sell it, I think.

    I can see her maybe being something similar to Xenia Onatopp, a sexy femme fatale who would just seduce Bond, but other than that, I just couldn't see her fitting in any Bond Girl roles other than play a sexy, seductive roles.
  • Posts: 15,122
    The film would still have been terrible, but maybe Jinx might have been more accepted/popular.

    On a side note and sorry if I come off as a chauvinist pig, but had Salma Hayek been cast as Jinx, she wouldn't swim, she'd float.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,634
    Ludovico wrote: »
    The film would still have been terrible, but maybe Jinx might have been more accepted/popular.

    On a side note and sorry if I come off as a chauvinist pig, but had Salma Hayek been cast as Jinx, she wouldn't swim, she'd float.

    Sick burn. Here’s my opinion: I wonder if my young mind at the time would have understood what she was saying. My dad now says sometimes he still doesn’t understand what she’s saying. All over her career.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    Ludovico wrote: »
    The film would still have been terrible, but maybe Jinx might have been more accepted/popular.

    But Halle Berry's name was really big at the time, she won an Oscar, she's way more popular than Hayek.
  • Posts: 15,122
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    The film would still have been terrible, but maybe Jinx might have been more accepted/popular.

    But Halle Berry's name was really big at the time, she won an Oscar, she's way more popular than Hayek.

    Yes but she also had a lot of detractors and if I'm not mistaken often perceived as a prima donna, somebody self centered and hard to work with. I don't think (someone corrects me if im wrong) Salma Hayek never got that kind of negative reactions. Not at the time anyway. She was pretty much seen as a hot Latina. No more, but no less.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I felt sorry for Halle with Die Another Day to be honest, they were so fixated on casting her, they forgot to right her an actual character to play.
    She's a good actress and she comes across a really likeable person
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,037
    Ludovico wrote: »
    The film would still have been terrible, but maybe Jinx might have been more accepted/popular.

    On a side note and sorry if I come off as a chauvinist pig, but had Salma Hayek been cast as Jinx, she wouldn't swim, she'd float.
    I basically agree with your first part, though I think Halle is one of the few highlights of that film. As for the second part, of course Salma is a bit more...voluptuous...than Halle, but well within what I'd find attractive. From my white old man point of view, they're about on par.

    Still the problem of the awful dialogue they made the Jinx actress spew would have been the same. Catastrophic. Now there's a mouthful.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Salma for me. 'Lowly dog! Bow your head and kneel...'
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,803
    I expect some thoughtful scene on a beach reflecting on destiny, life's choices, directions taken, loves lost, difficulties endured.

    And Brosnan Bond commenting on assets.


    7f26801c1bcade6df11e0940feb605ab--pierce-brosnan-salma-hayek.jpg

  • Posts: 15,122
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    The film would still have been terrible, but maybe Jinx might have been more accepted/popular.

    On a side note and sorry if I come off as a chauvinist pig, but had Salma Hayek been cast as Jinx, she wouldn't swim, she'd float.
    I basically agree with your first part, though I think Halle is one of the few highlights of that film. As for the second part, of course Salma is a bit more...voluptuous...than Halle, but well within what I'd find attractive. From my white old man point of view, they're about on par.

    Still the problem of the awful dialogue they made the Jinx actress spew would have been the same. Catastrophic. Now there's a mouthful.

    I find Salma Hayek very attractive. I didn't say that floating comment as a slight on her appearance.
  • timdalton007timdalton007 North Alabama
    Posts: 155
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I felt sorry for Halle with Die Another Day to be honest, they were so fixated on casting her, they forgot to right her an actual character to play.
    She's a good actress and she comes across a really likeable person

    Writing wise, it’s the same thing that happened with Denise Richards and Christmas Jones in TWINE. There’s not enough character there for someone to go and really flesh out. Which is a shame given Natalya, Wai Lin, and Elektra in other Brosnan films.

    That said, especially revisiting the film across the last decade, Berry comes across as flat in her performance. I think David Zaritsky and Calvin Dyson both noted it talking about the film a year or two ago. Plus, one or two of the more cringy lines (“Yo Momma!” especially) we’re apparently her ad-libs.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I felt sorry for Halle with Die Another Day to be honest, they were so fixated on casting her, they forgot to right her an actual character to play.
    She's a good actress and she comes across a really likeable person

    Writing wise, it’s the same thing that happened with Denise Richards and Christmas Jones in TWINE. There’s not enough character there for someone to go and really flesh out. Which is a shame given Natalya, Wai Lin, and Elektra in other Brosnan films.

    That said, especially revisiting the film across the last decade, Berry comes across as flat in her performance. I think David Zaritsky and Calvin Dyson both noted it talking about the film a year or two ago. Plus, one or two of the more cringy lines (“Yo Momma!” especially) we’re apparently her ad-libs.

    Yes, it's the writing and the directing, had DAD hired a more suitable, better director for this film, they wouldn't acted that way for sure.
  • Posts: 15,122
    Even with better writing, I'd still rather had a lesser known actress. Salma was far from unknown at the time, but less famous than Halle. Be that as it may, she would have been a far more sexual Jinx.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Even with better writing, I'd still rather had a lesser known actress. Salma was far from unknown at the time, but less famous than Halle. Be that as it may, she would have been a far more sexual Jinx.

    GenuineMeatyGonolek-max-1mb.gif
    A sexual Jinx? That phrase would definitely trigger Sir Roger's eyebrow
  • Posts: 15,122
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Even with better writing, I'd still rather had a lesser known actress. Salma was far from unknown at the time, but less famous than Halle. Be that as it may, she would have been a far more sexual Jinx.

    GenuineMeatyGonolek-max-1mb.gif
    A sexual Jinx? That phrase would definitely trigger Sir Roger's eyebrow
    Well let's say a far more blatantly sexual Jinx. Salma Hayek might have been THE sex symbol of the 90s/early 00s. Unapologetically so.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited March 2023 Posts: 693
    Hayek would've been miscast unless they changed Jinx to be a voluptuous seductive type as opposed to an action heroine. Berry looked good doing the physical stuff, something I can't see Hayek doing, even with her bullet-proof chest. The problem is that Jinx is a superfluous character who doesn't do anything other than fulfill the need for a "female Bond."
  • Posts: 15,122
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Hayek would've been miscast unless they changed Jinx to be a voluptuous seductive type as opposed to an action heroine. Berry looked good doing the physical stuff, something I can't see Hayek doing, even with her bullet-proof chest. The problem is that Jinx is a superfluous character who doesn't do anything other than fulfill the need for a "female Bond."

    I agree that Jinx is a superfluous character and recasting it would not have solved this issue. But didn't Hayek played action roles in that Desperado sequel and in Zorro? She might have been okay as an action girl. Although I doubt people would have cared either way. The character would have been just as bad, but more accepted.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Hayek would've been miscast unless they changed Jinx to be a voluptuous seductive type as opposed to an action heroine. Berry looked good doing the physical stuff, something I can't see Hayek doing, even with her bullet-proof chest.
    Oh, I dunno:



  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    Venutius wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Hayek would've been miscast unless they changed Jinx to be a voluptuous seductive type as opposed to an action heroine. Berry looked good doing the physical stuff, something I can't see Hayek doing, even with her bullet-proof chest.
    Oh, I dunno:



    But still, I think Halle Berry was fine in the role, it just needed a right director and script, I don't see Hayek in the role.
    Like what I've said, she would've worked for a femme fatale character a la Xenia Onatopp, she had the looks, but not a good main Bond Girl.
  • Taking a break from the previous two female casting what ifs, I wanted to submit another question:

    When starting to develop Licence to Kill (or Licence Revoked as it was first known), Eon wanted a place where the series had not yet visited for the primary location. While China was visited after an invitation by its government, the idea fell through because of budget concerns most notably. With China out, the Eon team decided to relocate the story in Latin America. But what if Asia was kept as the main location? Either with Eon filming in China or in another Asian country?

    How would this setting have impacted the story? Originally, Maibaum and Wilson dusted off the original Bond 15 treatments, set in South East Asia, and reworked them to refashion this prequel story into a traditional Bond adventure, before moving away and crafting Licence to Kill as we know it.

    In short, what if Licence to Kill was set in Asia as it was originally planned?
  • Posts: 15,122
    Taking a break from the previous two female casting what ifs, I wanted to submit another question:

    When starting to develop Licence to Kill (or Licence Revoked as it was first known), Eon wanted a place where the series had not yet visited for the primary location. While China was visited after an invitation by its government, the idea fell through because of budget concerns most notably. With China out, the Eon team decided to relocate the story in Latin America. But what if Asia was kept as the main location? Either with Eon filming in China or in another Asian country?

    How would this setting have impacted the story? Originally, Maibaum and Wilson dusted off the original Bond 15 treatments, set in South East Asia, and reworked them to refashion this prequel story into a traditional Bond adventure, before moving away and crafting Licence to Kill as we know it.

    In short, what if Licence to Kill was set in Asia as it was originally planned?

    I think it would have helped the movie somewhat, both intrinsically and its BO. Asia was at the time (and maybe now) far more exotic than Florida.
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