The What if NTTD is the last EON produced Bond film? page 62

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,411
    thedove wrote: »
    I often thought that AVTAK would have been great launch for a new Bond. Not sure why maybe the fact that the main villain was going to be a younger foe for Bond? I am not sure that Pierce at this time in his career would have been able to go toe to toe with Walken on screen, maybe later down the road. Dalton I could always envision being able to be a good Bond against Walken.

    I tend to think both of them would have struggled against Walken. Roger was old but he still had bucketfuls of presence.
    thedove wrote: »
    As for future films, TLD was not yet fully tailored to Dalton so I can see Pierce in that film, I can't see Pierce pulling off LTK and I am not sure they would even go that direction. LTK was written to play to Dalton's strengths and not Pierce.

    Funny how the casting of an actor for one movie spills over for many other interesting and different choices down the road.

    Yeah, they’d never have done LTK with Pierce, you’re right. I do think he’d have been very good in TLD though. I can imagine him being a touch less distant in it than Dalton was.
  • Posts: 4,161
    Yeah, I think Pierce would have struggled against Walken too. Dalton at least had his more serious, reserved take on the role to fall back on, so I think it would have worked well off of Zorin's more impulsive personality. Shame we never got a Bowie Bond villain though. Would have been great.

    Personally, AVTAK feels more like a 'last Bond film', so it's difficult imagining a young Pierce in it. It doesn't help that Moore and the rest of the MI6 regulars are not at their most youthful, but just looking at the cinematography and even story show a film that doesn't quite have that vigour or freshness to it. Perhaps then the presence of a younger Bond would have helped this.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,411
    Thinking about it, I can actually picture Pierce in AVTAK, and I think he'd have been fine. But just not as good as Roger.



    He's a better fit for TLD though, especially with a bit of the steel he showed in Fourth Protocol.
  • Posts: 4,161
    I am glad that it worked out the way it did to be honest. I think Brosnan was better off with GE as a debut. It's a great Bond film anyway, but it had just the right material for his Bond - humorous, breezy when needed, but still enough there to be interesting (and, more importantly, it didn't stretch Brosnan beyond his capabilities as his last two films did... I do like his Bond but he's really one of the least talented actors to take the role in my opinion).

    I wouldn't want to swap out Moore in AVTAK, or indeed Dalton in TLD. There are a number of scenes in the latter where I just can't imagine Brosnan bringing what Dalton did to it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,411
    I love TLD and I wouldn't have it without Dalton, but I think Pierce would have brought a lot more charm and audience connection (he'd certainly have got more of the laughs) and I can well imagine it being more popular than it was. I'm not a massive fan of his either, but he has got a charming presence, and as I say, with Fourth Protocol he was doing a bit of the cold killer stuff too.
  • Posts: 1,368
    And he was younger than Dalton and Moore. He was... like Mel Gibson or Bruce Willis. Someone in his thirties.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited October 2023 Posts: 3,789
    I'll admit, any young actor could do better than Moore in AVTAK, because no matter what are the reasons, he's just far too long in the tooth to be believable in the role that there are obvious stuntmen already.

    The MI6 regulars being old were fine, well Desmond Llewellyn as Q proved himself as counterpart to the later Bond actors, Lois Maxwell? Well, that's fine too, she's M's secretary, and besides, Bond never ended up with her (despite of some flirting, well, I could do better without any of the flirting).

    But the film, aside from many issues I have with it (the action scenes in particular), I think it would've been better with a younger Bond actor.

    Who says he couldn't go up against Walken? When he had fought a more physically imposing Sean Bean's Alec Trevelyan in Goldeneye.

    And I think Brosnan would've a lot more better banter with Stacey Sutton.

    And for me, at least, Moore should've stopped after Moonraker, really, when he's still in his prime, then the other (younger) Bond actors could've took the role.

    I know it has fans, but I don't mind losing Octopussy (well, it could've suit Brosnan's strengths too), and For Your Eyes Only could've starred with Dalton, then either one of them in AVTAK.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited October 2023 Posts: 554
    I've long thought AVTAK has some uniquely fun subtext as Moore's final mission, and I wouldn't want to change it, but I'd certainly be curious to see a Brosnanised version. I think he'd do quite well, bring a real sense of youth to the game.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2023 Posts: 16,411
    I think it's a shame they didn't lean into AVTAK being his last a little more; would it have been so bad to give RogerBond a bit of a hint of a sunset ending? There can't have been much doubt he was at the end of the road after all.
  • If Brosnan had been cast in AVTAK, would the Russian soldier in the pre credits sequence hanging over the ice cliff have still shouted "Pierce Brosnan" instead?
  • Posts: 1,917
    Some things in this story about the timeline just don't sit right. NSNA wasn't released in the U.S. until the fall and in the UK and much of the rest of the world until the end of '83, so wouldn't it have been sometime in early '84 they'd be noticing Moore won the battle? Steele's second season would've likely wrapped around March '84 or so and why wouldn't that have been enough time to sign Brosnan? I recall reading Moore was signed for AVTAK in the summer of '84.

    Also, Brosnan is quoted as saying we're taking bets as to if a second season will happen when his comments talk about a year ago meaning he'd already be deep into filming the second season already.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Surely there's some revisionist history at play here...it's been a while.

    But it does make sense that Brosnan was on Cubby's radar since at least 1980 when they first met (?). And Remington Steele was starting to make Brosnan famous in the US.

    And Moore would only sign for one movie at a time--recall the bizarre James Brolin time (Brolin was prominent on US TV in Hotel). Moore clearly couldn't be in the role forever, so I'm sure Eon had feelers out.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,215
    echo wrote: »
    Surely there's some revisionist history at play here...it's been a while.

    But it does make sense that Brosnan was on Cubby's radar since at least 1980 when they first met (?). And Remington Steele was starting to make Brosnan famous in the US.

    And Moore would only sign for one movie at a time--recall the bizarre James Brolin time (Brolin was prominent on US TV in Hotel). Moore clearly couldn't be in the role forever, so I'm sure Eon had feelers out.

    As they probably have since the release of SPECTRE.

  • edited October 2023 Posts: 910
    I'm having trouble understanding the logic here: why would Cubby want Brosnan in the role at a time when Remington Steele was still airing? We all know that Brosnan was prevented to star in TLD because Cubby thought that people wouldn't go to movie theatres if his star was on TV at the same time. Why would he have thought otherwise two years before? I must confess I have some doubts about this rumour. If Brosnan was indeed approached at the time, I suppose it was for Bond 15, with Cubby thinking long-term, and not for Bond 14 (AVTAK).

    However, let's assume that this rumour is true. In this case, I guess AVTAK would have been quite different from the actual movie. If I'm not mistaken, Patrick Macnee was cast because of Moore and it's thus probable that another actor would have played the part. Since the whole St. John Smythe thing was tailored for Moore, I have a hard time imagining Maibaum and Wilson writing it for another actor; thus, I guess the whole Chantilly segment would have been something else entirely.

    Regarding the supporting cast, with Brosnan as Bond, I guess Michaela Clavell would have been brought back as Penelope Smallbone, replacing Miss Moneypenny as M's secretary.

    The movie would probably have been more successful. The series needed fresh blood at the time; let's not forget that AVTAK made even less than LTK at the box-office worldwide (even thought it grossed five times its budget so it was still a success). With Brosnan, or anyone else, in the role, AVTAK could have renewed audiences' interest in the series, especially with Duran Duran helping to sale the movie for a younger audience.
  • Posts: 7,427
    According to John Glens book, Brosnan was on set with his then wife Cassandra Harris on FYEO, and it was commered that he would make a good Bond. Cubby was unconvinced and thought he would be too lightweight ( boy was he right there!)
    as Cubby wanted Bond to be more harder edge, hence his enthusiasm for Dalton! Dalton was unavailable. Glen and Michael Wilson convinced Cubby to give Brosnan an audition, based on the prospect of his contract ending for Remington Steele, he signed on, MTM productions pulled a fast one and extended his contract, Cubby dropped him, Dalton became available and signed on. Glen doesn't mention Brossa bei g considered for AVTAK! Think thats the story!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    According to John Glens book, Brosnan was on set with his then wife Cassandra Harris on FYEO, and it was commered that he would make a good Bond. Cubby was unconvinced and thought he would be too lightweight ( boy was he right there!)
    as Cubby wanted Bond to be more harder edge, hence his enthusiasm for Dalton! Dalton was unavailable. Glen and Michael Wilson convinced Cubby to give Brosnan an audition, based on the prospect of his contract ending for Remington Steele, he signed on, MTM productions pulled a fast one and extended his contract, Cubby dropped him, Dalton became available and signed on. Glen doesn't mention Brossa bei g considered for AVTAK! Think thats the story!

    Wait, so we have @mtm to blame for Brozz not being in TLD!?!? I always thought this guy was trouble… (😉)
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,431
    The timeline is a bit messy.

    After MR concluded Moore's 4 picture deal he would refuse to sign another long term contract. Instead Moore would only sign a picture at a time. This allowed him to increase his wage. After each film wrapped he was coy about returning to do another.

    When Eyes wrapped and it was time to re-up the price was too steep. Broccoli ended up screen testing a bunch of actors, one of them being James Brolin. This was going to be for OP. Depending on what you believe they were going to go with James Brolin for OP. Although Broccoli was likely bluffing.

    As McClory was now into production with NSNA it was decided that OP shouldn't be a new Bond and they paid Roger his fee to return.

    After OP Moore again was coy about returning for another. It is entirely likely that Broccoli screen tested some new actors. I could see Pierce being one of those actors. The story I had heard was that the studio was grateful for Moore and his efforts in beating Connery at the Box Office and said they would like him to return to do a final picture.

    The rest is history. It is too bad that Moore returned, AVTAK was not a strong send off. I would have preferred him sailing away in OP. Have a new Bond for View!

    So while things may not entirely align with Brosnan doing View. I can see the series of events where he might have screen tested while Broccoli and Moore did their dance with negotiations.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Yes, Glen's account makes the most sense.

    Brosnan was a rising star in the US in the early '80s, and I'm sure Cubby was paying attention to him (much as he pulled Moore out of TV). Brosnan's co-star Stephanie Zimbalist didn't get along with him because Remington Steele was developed as a star vehicle for her but he was becoming more popular by the day.

    I understand why Eon put out the PR spin that Dalton was "always the first choice." But Brosnan was a much bigger star than Dalton in the early-mid '80s in the US. The US is/was one-third of the global Bond box office so of course Cubby signed Brosnan when he became (briefly) available.

    I say this as someone who prefers Dalton to Brosnan.

    I don't know that anyone, Dalton or Brosnan, could have survived the "crass action hero" craze of the late '80s, not to mention the UA problems. It's a miracle Bond came back.
  • Posts: 7,427
    peter wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    According to John Glens book, Brosnan was on set with his then wife Cassandra Harris on FYEO, and it was commered that he would make a good Bond. Cubby was unconvinced and thought he would be too lightweight ( boy was he right there!)
    as Cubby wanted Bond to be more harder edge, hence his enthusiasm for Dalton! Dalton was unavailable. Glen and Michael Wilson convinced Cubby to give Brosnan an audition, based on the prospect of his contract ending for Remington Steele, he signed on, MTM productions pulled a fast one and extended his contract, Cubby dropped him, Dalton became available and signed on. Glen doesn't mention Brossa bei g considered for AVTAK! Think thats the story!

    Wait, so we have @mtm to blame for Brozz not being in TLD!?!? I always thought this guy was trouble… (😉)

    😅 Well he does appear to be quite critical of Dalton! 😉
    MTM as you well know, is Mary Tyler Moore Productions producers of that awful Remington Steele show!
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited October 2023 Posts: 3,789
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Cubby was unconvinced and thought he would be too lightweight ( boy was he right there!)
    as Cubby wanted Bond to be more harder edge, hence his enthusiasm for Dalton!

    Oh, so did he thought that Moore was hard edged?
    It's obvious that Moore was as lightweight as Brosnan, isn't it?
    Really, I don't believe Cubby at this.
    It's impossible to have him shake his head on Brosnan, because the guy had a star power (something that in my view of Cubby, was always that he's looking for, he liked his Bond actor to have that Connery type of stardom in them).
    If he's enthusiastic about Dalton, then why he didn't considered the guy for LALD?
    echo wrote: »
    Yes, Glen's account makes the most sense.

    Brosnan was a rising star in the US in the early '80s, and I'm sure Cubby was paying attention to him (much as he pulled Moore out of TV). Brosnan's co-star Stephanie Zimbalist didn't get along with him because Remington Steele was developed as a star vehicle for her but he was becoming more popular by the day.

    I understand why Eon put out the PR spin that Dalton was "always the first choice." But Brosnan was a much bigger star than Dalton in the early-mid '80s in the US. The US is/was one-third of the global Bond box office so of course Cubby signed Brosnan when he became (briefly) available.

    I say this as someone who prefers Dalton to Brosnan.

    I don't know that anyone, Dalton or Brosnan, could have survived the "crass action hero" craze of the late '80s, not to mention the UA problems. It's a miracle Bond came back.

    I agree.
  • I think Brosnan looked a tad bit too young for the part in 1987, let alone any year prior to that. He came along and re-energized the series at the right time and place, and he ultimately was the perfect choice for Goldeneye.
  • edited October 2023 Posts: 7,427
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Cubby was unconvinced and thought he would be too lightweight ( boy was he right there!)
    as Cubby wanted Bond to be more harder edge, hence his enthusiasm for Dalton!

    Oh, so did he thought that Moore was hard edged?
    It's obvious that Moore was as lightweight as Brosnan, isn't it?
    Really, I don't believe Cubby at this.
    It's impossible to have him shake his head on Brosnan, because the guy had a star power (something that in my view of Cubby, was always that he's looking for, he liked his Bond actor to have that Connery type of stardom in them).
    If he's enthusiastic about Dalton, then why he didn't considered the guy for LALD?
    echo wrote: »
    Yes, Glen's account makes the most sense.

    Brosnan was a rising star in the US in the early '80s, and I'm sure Cubby was paying attention to him (much as he pulled Moore out of TV). Brosnan's co-star Stephanie Zimbalist didn't get along with him because Remington Steele was developed as a star vehicle for her but he was becoming more popular by the day.

    I understand why Eon put out the PR spin that Dalton was "always the first choice." But Brosnan was a much bigger star than Dalton in the early-mid '80s in the US. The US is/was one-third of the global Bond box office so of course Cubby signed Brosnan when he became (briefly) available.

    I say this as someone who prefers Dalton to Brosnan.

    I don't know that anyone, Dalton or Brosnan, could have survived the "crass action hero" craze of the late '80s, not to mention the UA problems. It's a miracle Bond came back.

    I agree.

    You're missing the point. Moore wasnt hard edged, so Cubby wanted someone different for the next era! Regards Dalton and LALD, he was considered several times, but declined or wasn't available. He was always on Cubbys list, Brossa was not until the 80's, when Roger was signing on picture by picture!
  • Posts: 1,368
    echo wrote: »
    Yes, Glen's account makes the most sense.

    Brosnan was a rising star in the US in the early '80s, and I'm sure Cubby was paying attention to him (much as he pulled Moore out of TV). Brosnan's co-star Stephanie Zimbalist didn't get along with him because Remington Steele was developed as a star vehicle for her but he was becoming more popular by the day.

    I understand why Eon put out the PR spin that Dalton was "always the first choice." But Brosnan was a much bigger star than Dalton in the early-mid '80s in the US. The US is/was one-third of the global Bond box office so of course Cubby signed Brosnan when he became (briefly) available.

    I say this as someone who prefers Dalton to Brosnan.

    I don't know that anyone, Dalton or Brosnan, could have survived the "crass action hero" craze of the late '80s, not to mention the UA problems. It's a miracle Bond came back.

    It was not a miracle. True Lies made a lot of money. It was a matter of time.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,411
    Brosnan was announced as Bond before True Lies was released.
  • edited October 2023 Posts: 1,368
    mtm wrote: »
    Brosnan was announced as Bond before True Lies was released.

    Yeah, I know. It doesn't matter. True lies made Bond relevant again without Brosnan and EON. It was a matter of time, that's all.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,411
    Sure.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    thedove wrote: »
    As Elliot Carver once said "This just in..."

    https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/pierce-brosnan-first-approach-for-james-bond-1983?fbclid=IwAR2YXLFpqgYXTjx2Tua6_E3cfOyKNj3z2_CHBp-qsuJ9m_Sodvtysv2fdmQ

    Looks like Cubby was a fan of Pierce before TLD and way before GE. It seems to be coming out that Pierce screen tested for the role in late 1983 to take over as Bond in AVTAK. Wow, one wonders how a new Bond would have improved AVTAK. Can we imagine Pierce and Walken sharing a screen? Or even Pierce and David Bowie (who was rumoured for the Zorin role).

    This would have altered things quite a bit from what we got had it happened. One wonders if Dalton would have lost his chance to become Bond and whether Brosnan would have added 3 more films to this run. What happens with LTK? Could Pierce pull that off? Or would a return to Fleming be put on hold for a tone more in line with Brosnan's other Bond films?

    What say you Mi6? What if Pierce Brosnan had starred in AVTAK?

    AVTAK's script was so tired and recycled(essentially a GF rehash that could've easily been titled Microchip-Finger) I would not have wanted either Brosnan or Dalton to make their 007 debut with it, at least not without a major script overhaul prior to shooting. As it stands, it's a little easier to overlook AVTAK's many faults as a finale for Sir Rog past his prime rather than as an exciting debut for a younger, new Bond lead actor. That stated I have in the past imagined a "what if?" standalone version of AVTAK with a 1985 Brosnan and with Priscilla Barnes(Mrs. Leiter from LTK) as Stacy Sutton. Essentially it may have played like Remington Steele with Teri Alden as his leading lady.

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,215
    “ Microchip-Finger” 😂
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Shouldn't it be Siliconfinger? :P
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