Female Bond? End the debate now... I've got a BETTER idea! Goodnight... Mary Goodnight.

BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
in Bond Movies Posts: 373
Ok. So every now and then the discussion about making Bond a woman (somehow...) comes up. Personally I wouldn't know how to make that work without a complete reboot but I think I've hit on a solution.

Those who've read the books are aware of Mary Goodnight. A field operative working for the Secret Service. She was also played by Britt Ekland in TMWTGG (a portrayal sadly that didn't do the character any favours but that's by the by).

Here's my suggestion.

Re-introduce Mary Goodnight into the current continuity as an ally of Bond in one of his missions. During the course of the story have her promoted to 00 status (008 perhaps?)

Also this new incarnation of the character should have NO romantic ties with Bond at all. I think she should be quite a lot younger than Bond and see him as more of a surrogate older brother figure.

This could easily lead into some spin off films - with cool titles like "Goodnight Berlin" and the like.

I can even see the poster in my head. Her posing with a Walther PPK - hair flowing in the wind and the tagline "Get ready...to say Goodnight".

This character has the benefit of having been created by Ian Fleming. And whilst I wouldn't suggest Bond cameos in her solo adventures - it's not inconceivable that characters like M, Moneypenny and Q could still appear.

As for our lead? Well, Daisy Ridley's probably going to be looking for a job now that Star Wars is about to wrap up...

Thoughts?

Comments

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,265
    I'm never opposed to "expanded universe" material, but in the books, Goodnight always came off to me as a nice secretary whose field-work talents are yet very much unproven. I read her as the easy damsel-in-stress character rather than a pro-active female Bond.

    That said, there's nothing wrong with, as you suggested, re-introducing her while toughing her character up a tad. Lest we forget, MP wasn't exactly a gun-packing momma in our minds either until we saw her save some VIPs in SF's courtroom shootout.

    Mary Goodnight could easily be a sixties' Emma Peele meets Catwoman meets a Charlie's Angel. Or she could be a more contemporary Black Widow meets Jinx sort of secret agent. As long as she doesn't "peecee up" to lecture us about gender equality and hashtag-whatever-they-invent-next, I wouldn't be against it, bearing in mind that she wouldn't be the docile secretary type Fleming had in mind.

    That said, who would be interested? Hardcore Bond fans might be curious and check out the first couple of episodes, issues, movies, ... whatever format they'd go for. Addicted television viewers might check out a TV series for a while. But is the general appeal of another "spy fatale" at this point great enough? That's my only concern.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm never opposed to "expanded universe" material, but in the books, Goodnight always came off to me as a nice secretary whose field-work talents are yet very much unproven. I read her as the easy damsel-in-stress character rather than a pro-active female Bond.

    That said, there's nothing wrong with, as you suggested, re-introducing her while toughing her character up a tad. Lest we forget, MP wasn't exactly a gun-packing momma in our minds either until we saw her save some VIPs in SF's courtroom shootout.

    Mary Goodnight could easily be a sixties' Emma Peele meets Catwoman meets a Charlie's Angel. Or she could be a more contemporary Black Widow meets Jinx sort of secret agent. As long as she doesn't "peecee up" to lecture us about gender equality and hashtag-whatever-they-invent-next, I wouldn't be against it, bearing in mind that she wouldn't be the docile secretary type Fleming had in mind.

    That said, who would be interested? Hardcore Bond fans might be curious and check out the first couple of episodes, issues, movies, ... whatever format they'd go for. Addicted television viewers might check out a TV series for a while. But is the general appeal of another "spy fatale" at this point great enough? That's my only concern.

    All very valid points of course - I'm only offering it as a hypothetical solution to an often asked question.

    I agree with your suggestion that she not "peecee" it up and begin lecturing us through the fourth wall.

    Rather than concentrate on her gender - I think a good story would more focus on her maybe feeling a bit young and green for 00 status. Showing us maybe that she fell into this line of work by accident and is wondering how it all came to this.

    Maybe she's struggling with guilt over the two kills she had to complete before attaining 00 status?

    It's a given that she'd be an orphan but maybe she has brothers, sisters, nieces and nephews?

    It could be fun to see life as a 00 from another standpoint other than Bond's.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,265
    BondStu wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm never opposed to "expanded universe" material, but in the books, Goodnight always came off to me as a nice secretary whose field-work talents are yet very much unproven. I read her as the easy damsel-in-stress character rather than a pro-active female Bond.

    That said, there's nothing wrong with, as you suggested, re-introducing her while toughing her character up a tad. Lest we forget, MP wasn't exactly a gun-packing momma in our minds either until we saw her save some VIPs in SF's courtroom shootout.

    Mary Goodnight could easily be a sixties' Emma Peele meets Catwoman meets a Charlie's Angel. Or she could be a more contemporary Black Widow meets Jinx sort of secret agent. As long as she doesn't "peecee up" to lecture us about gender equality and hashtag-whatever-they-invent-next, I wouldn't be against it, bearing in mind that she wouldn't be the docile secretary type Fleming had in mind.

    That said, who would be interested? Hardcore Bond fans might be curious and check out the first couple of episodes, issues, movies, ... whatever format they'd go for. Addicted television viewers might check out a TV series for a while. But is the general appeal of another "spy fatale" at this point great enough? That's my only concern.

    All very valid points of course - I'm only offering it as a hypothetical solution to an often asked question.

    I agree with your suggestion that she not "peecee" it up and begin lecturing us through the fourth wall.

    Rather than concentrate on her gender - I think a good story would more focus on her maybe feeling a bit young and green for 00 status. Showing us maybe that she fell into this line of work by accident and is wondering how it all came to this.

    Maybe she's struggling with guilt over the two kills she had to complete before attaining 00 status?

    It's a given that she'd be an orphan but maybe she has brothers, sisters, nieces and nephews?

    It could be fun to see life as a 00 from another standpoint other than Bond's.

    True!

    To be frank, my mood on this can flip any day. I'm generally speaking an EU type of guy. I don't think the quality of an original something is weakened or lowered by expanded material. But I can be stubborn about the medium...

    Comic books is where I think the sky is the limit. As far as I'm concerned, no harm can come from whatever experiments a comic book writer thinks up next. Any Bond character, even the most non-descript ones, can be featured in the comics, get their own comics, whatever. A Mary G007night Comic? I'm all for that!

    Television is okay. It's the ultimate trial-and-error medium anyway. Nobody likes the pilot? We don't air anything else. The first season draws negative criticism? The series won't be renewed for a second season. Simple. A Mary G007night TV series, with the caveat that it can be pulled from the air anytime they want? Sure.

    But the movies come with a more delicate issue, I think. If something linked to Bond fails with a foul stench at the movies, this could reflect negatively on the interest another legitimate Bond film might generate. So all things considered, I'm really off two minds on a Mary G007night movie, even after a successful re-introduction in, say, B26 first.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    True!

    To be frank, my mood on this can flip any day. I'm generally speaking an EU type of guy. I don't think the quality of an original something is weakened or lowered by expanded material. But I can be stubborn about the medium...

    Comic books is where I think the sky is the limit. As far as I'm concerned, no harm can come from whatever experiments a comic book writer thinks up next. Any Bond character, even the most non-descript ones, can be featured in the comics, get their own comics, whatever. A Mary G007night Comic? I'm all for that!

    Television is okay. It's the ultimate trial-and-error medium anyway. Nobody likes the pilot? We don't air anything else. The first season draws negative criticism? The series won't be renewed for a second season. Simple. A Mary G007night TV series, with the caveat that it can be pulled from the air anytime they want? Sure.

    But the movies come with a more delicate issue, I think. If something linked to Bond fails with a foul stench at the movies, this could reflect negatively on the interest another legitimate Bond film might generate. So all things considered, I'm really off two minds on a Mary G007night movie, even after a successful re-introduction in, say, B26 first.

    In regards to that last part - there's every danger a Bond film itself could do that let alone any spin off!
    :))

    It all depends on the execution. Should they make a Mary Goodnight movie - I'd say they are shrewd with the first one.

    Don't give it a massive budget, release it in September or something and let word of mouth do it's work for it.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    @DarthDimi - sorry to drag you over here mate, but that aliens and UFO thread gave me a crazy thought.

    For a series of Mary Goodnight movies - I think they'd need an angle different from Bond. And your question in that other thread about why do Americans only seem to get abducted?

    What about things that go bump in the night in other countries? Who'd deal with it?

    And here's my crazy thought. If they did these spin off movies about a female 00 agent - maybe they could take it in an X-Files kind of direction?

    That MI6 try Goodnight out on a bit of wacky case that's landed on their desk and she uncovers an alien conspiracy to take over Earth, and in other adventures fights things like vampires and werewolves and stuff?

    It'd be a tricky thing to pull off to bring the supernatural into a world where Bond exists - but I like the idea of MI6 having to deal with this stuff and having a specific agent to do it.
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