Weekly Bond Poll: Round 59: secondary Bond girls & helicopter flights

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  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited April 2020 Posts: 7,136
    Tycoon
    FRWL
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    A) Mr. Solo. The similar scene involving the Taiwanese Tycoon(who incidentally played of Goldfinger's underlings also) is a pale imitation of it IMHO.

    B) From Russia With Love
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    A) Mr. Solo. The similar scene involving the Taiwanese Tycoon(who incidentally played of Goldfinger's underlings also) is a pale imitation of it IMHO.
    [/b]

    Didn't know that! That's another interesting connection.

    Nice cards @RichardTheBruce.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I do like the scene in AVTAK, but, MR SOLO for the win. The murder in Goldfinger is frightening and lonely-- Solo pretty much must've known his fate was sealed when Oddjob missed the turn to the airport. Then they pull up on some desolate road. Murdered in cold blood, then; the body is crushed, hidden and forgotten about like a piece of trash (except when separating Mr. Solo from the gold). Yes, the AVTAK scene had the horror and surprise factor, but the GF assassination has more layers.

    FRWL for the WIN...
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    I'm going to go against the grain here, and vote for the AVTAK tycoon.
    Don't get me wrong, I love the Mr.Solo scene from GF, but it's just a little overlong. I guess you have Felix and Ambush (who came up with that name?) following the homer. But as gruesome and horrible the car crusher are, I feel the tycoon's fate in AVTAK is quick, brutally horrifying and the pay off line is as cheesy as they come. But Walken delivers it so well I don't care.

    As for the second pairing, it's almost a coin toss as to which one is better.
    But I think From Russia With Love just edges ahead for the win.
    Could go either way though.

    Another good and thought provoking round.
    :-bd
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Solo
    TSWLM
  • Max_The_ParrotMax_The_Parrot ATAC to St Cyril’s
    Posts: 2,426
    AVTAK - I just think the collapsing staircase is a fab moment, and something I would definitely have installed in my airship. And I love May Day’s sauntering scenery chewing, and Mad Max’s follow up line ‘So, does anybody else want to drop out?’

    And for no particular reason ‘From Russia With Love’
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    AVTAK - I just think the collapsing staircase is a fab moment, and something I would definitely have installed in my airship.

    True, everyone needs such a collapsing staircase in his airship. ;)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The AVTAK scene is cool, but I am going with GF. I just love those 60s aesthetics and the score and Oddjob, and it all comes together nicely.

    The second is tough, but I am giving it to TSWLM. It rolls better off the tongue if nothing else.
  • Posts: 1,917
    For the first choice, nothing in AVTAK holds a candle to GF. So I choose Mr. Solo, although I every time I see or that name I picture Robert Vaughn in my mind, being I'm also a big Man from U.N.C.L.E. fan.

    Others will disagree, but the scene is part of a larger set of issues I have with the stud farm section of the film. First off, why not just off Solo with the rest of the gangsters by Goldfinger saying, okay, I'll make the arrangements and leaving him in the room. Why go to the trouble of not just pretending to take him to the airport, even load gold, just to off him in the car? It's a lot to give false hope to Bond thinking the homer will alert Felix for help and there's no real suspense to it.

    The car crushing thing was probably a cool thing to see back in '64, but now not so much. Lastly, why the hell wouldn't Oddjob take the gold out of the trunk before crushing the car? "I have to go separate my gold from the late Mr. Solo" is an amusing line, but if it leads me to wonder why instead of being wowed by it and that makes it a flaw.

    The AVTAK scene is fine. But again like the hoods convention, wouldn't somebody from the Asian guy's organization be looking for him and put more suspicion onto Zorin? You know he had to have powerful connections. Maybe they just wanted an excuse to use that guy falling from great heights yell into the film, a signature moment along with Glen's surprise bird jump scare of the films of the era.

    For the second question, easily From Russia With Love. Sorry, The Spy Who Loved Me sounds like it could fit one of those cheap romance novels that overpopulate bookstores. Not to mention it gave excuses for terrible titles for terrible projects like The Spy Who Dumped Me. Although The Spy Who Jumped Me could work for an adult film.

  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Lastly, why the hell wouldn't Oddjob take the gold out of the trunk before crushing the car? "I have to go separate my gold from the late Mr. Solo" is an amusing line, but if it leads me to wonder why instead of being wowed by it and that makes it a flaw.

    One of many items I love about the scene is how happy Goldfinger is when his gold returns to him. His attraction to it even extends to his hand on the Ford Ranchero and moving with the vehicle like it's become attached. He has no doubt about the gold being returned to him from that mass of metal.

    I never thought to try to explain it until now: with all the CIA crawling around the area, what better way to drive around with a dead body and a fortune in gold than to encase it in a crushed automobile. (Though in reality I guess the concern would be the human remains giving away what's up.)

  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited April 2020 Posts: 4,483
    The drop out of the Taiwanese tycoon is one of my favourite death Scenes in the Bond films. @Benny wrote: "...quick, brutally horrifying and the pay off line is as cheesy as they come. But Walken delivers it so well I don't care." Quick? Yes and I would call it efficient. Give him some fresh air and go on with the others. One button is pushed and the job is done. I'm with Max here (not Zorin, the one with feathers): The collapsing staircase is a nice trick. Mean and funny to watch at same time.

    I can understand everyone who votes for Mr. Solo. It's a scene sticking in mind after the first watch and it is definitely impressive the first time. BUT: It doesn't make sense, not even for Bond standard. @BT3366 's point are exactly the reason why I'm not a big fan of this GF scene.

    And again BT3366 who nails it for me:
    I never gave the TSWLM title much thought. The title works plotwise and it is a Fleming title. BUT :
    BT3366 wrote: »
    For the second question, easily From Russia With Love. Sorry, The Spy Who Loved Me sounds like it could fit one of those cheap romance novels that overpopulate bookstores. Not to mention it gave excuses for terrible titles for terrible projects like The Spy Who Dumped Me. Although The Spy Who Jumped Me could work for an adult film.
    Is TSWLM the worst Fleming title? I think so, right now.

    FRWL sounds somehow better, can't really explain why (?). Maybe it is because "Russia" and "Love" are used together (at a time where Russia was generally Bond's enemy) and we, like Bond, should be sceptic: Is this a trap?
  • Posts: 1,917
    Is TSWLM the worst Fleming title? I think so, right now.

    FRWL sounds somehow better, can't really explain why (?). Maybe it is because "Russia" and "Love" are used together (at a time where Russia was generally Bond's enemy) and we, like Bond, should be sceptic: Is this a trap?

    Exactly, I was thinking the same things. TWSLM is a very generic title that could go with anything, not just Bond. Of course, the story is told from Viviene Michele's point of view, but the everyday person on the street wouldn't necessarily know that. Even in the film, is it Bond referring to Anya or vice versa? Actually, you could use that title for From Russia With Love.

    From Russia With Love is even worked nicely into the film version with writing it on the photo. They never work the title into the film version of TSWLM.
  • Posts: 698
    Taiwanese Tycoon & FRWL
  • 1. Mr. Solo's demise
    2. From Russia with Love
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I'd like to cast a vote for the Taiwanese Tycoon please. I'll never forget just how surprised I was seeing it for the first time as a kid. I didn't even realize they were in the air. Everyone plays it perfectly and Walken's delivery is second to none. Perhaps the only small nitpick is that you can clearly tell that it's a dummy falling, but that was not uncommon for the time.

    I'll agree that From Russia With Love sounds a bit more exotic than the somewhat generic The Spy Who Loved Me.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    True, that's another thing I like about the AVTAK scene: it isn't revealed that they are in an airship before he falls out of it.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited April 2020 Posts: 4,483
    Results of round 29:

    Elimination of Mr. Solo gets one vote more than Taiwanese tycoon (AVTAK): 7: 6
    FRWL is clearly preferred to TSWLM as movie title: 11 : 2

    Round 30:
    Some henchmen didn't show good fighting skills but they are remembered because of other characterisitcs, for example their evil laughter or evil grin…

    Which henchman do you prefer? Baron Samedi vs. Dario

    The second question is a bit different this time: Derek Meddings worked as miniature model creator and was responsible for visual effects. He worked on four Moore films and returned for GE before he died the same year. His work on MR was defintiely outstanding but there is much more great model work.

    Which of Derek Meddings' (miniature) models do you prefer? Liparus (all scenes of the ship including its destruction) vs. fighter jet's crash into the Severnaya GoldenEye ground control





    If you are interested:
    https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/biography_derek_meddings.php3

  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    I think you've almost stumped me this week @goldenswissroyale
    Both Baron Samedi and Dario are great and memorable henchman with a laugh or grin.
    As tough a choice as it is, I'll go with Baron Samedi as he has slightly more screen time. And Geoffrey Holder is so over the top and dramatic in the role.
    For the second part of the poll, Derek Medding's model work in all the Bond films was nothing short of outstanding. Though I have to say even though the near perfect work on GE was amazing, the Liparus in TSWLM is perfect.
    According to the making of documentary on TSWLM, the captain of the ship on which the Liparus was modelled didn't realise they hadn't used footage of his ship, and all the shots of the ship in the film are a model. That is some perfect model work.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    LTK is my favourite Bond film, but no-one laughs like the Baron.
    Difficult one, I'm going with Severnaya.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The first is easy. Dario is a truly unnerving scumbag, while Holder s Samedi is just an exaggerated buffoon. Dario for the win.

    The second is also kind of easy, even though none of the scenes or sets do anything for me. Liparus wins as it does look real, and not like something out of a kid show on tv.
  • Max_The_ParrotMax_The_Parrot ATAC to St Cyril’s
    Posts: 2,426
    Oooo, I’ll go for the Voodoo god of cemeteries and chief of the legion of the dead, the man who cannot die ... unsurprisingly one of my favourite characters!!

    And definitely the Liparus for me, can’t quite put my finger on it but there’s something about the Goldeneye clip that never looked quite right to me.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited April 2020 Posts: 4,483
    @Max_The_Parrot I was sure that you will go tith the Baron.
    The space part in GE doesn't look good but I believe this is only cgi and had nothing to do with Meddings. The rest looks great imo. However, the ship is fantastic work, too.
  • Max_The_ParrotMax_The_Parrot ATAC to St Cyril’s
    Posts: 2,426
    @goldenswissroyale hehe! Yes, with reference to Goldeneye it is the MiGs crashing that somehow doesn’t seem right, something about their motion - maybe the speed (a little slow?) ... but having never witnessed a fighter jet crashing into a building before I’m not the best person o judge! Certain Meddings was a genius, and Bond is better for him, without a doubt!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @goldenswissroyale your contest always stops me in my tracks. Most weeks I just can't answer right away. I have to think about it before I answer (no gut reactions).

    I will have to go with Baron Samedi-- He could be over the top in costume, but sly, quiet and sinister (like when he's playing the flute).

    I'll also go with Liparus for the second, please.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited April 2020 Posts: 4,483
    @peter It is my aim to find pairings which haven't been compared endlessly and where the winner isn't (too) obvious. I don't succeed every week but at least sometimes.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @goldenswissroyale — always great fun!
  • Posts: 1,917
    The first one is tough as I like both characters a lot. Baron Samedi is unlike any other character in a Bond movie and Dario gets my vote as the most underrated henchman. He doesn't look like much but looks are deceptive. He's creepy and deadly. I love the line he's such a badass that the Contras kicked him out.

    As for best laugh, Geoffrey Holder has one of the best laughs in movie history for me, not just the Bond series, so it's Baron Samedi. Although he's a noted dancer and choreographer, his laugh and voice have given him another side career. He was a 7-Up pitchman in the '70s. I remember my mom saying to me "That's the guy from Live and Let Die" and his catchphrase "Marvellous" followed by the laugh. I actually looked a couple of those commercials up on YouTube recently.

    On the second question, I'd personally go for Meddings' Oscar-nominated work on MR. As that is not an option, I will go with Liparus. GE is not one of my go-to films, so I had to watch the clip to refresh my memory. I do recall criticisms of Meddings' effects in GE. I thought they looked fine; maybe people became too attached to CGI by this time.

    I am still amazed at the Liparus scenes being models and not actual tankers and subs. Meddings would've easily earned an Oscar had it not been for Star Wars, which even Close Encounters couldn't compete with. If both of those weren't released in '77 TSWLM would've won.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited April 2020 Posts: 4,483
    I wouldn't go as far as @Thunderfinger and call him "exaggerated buffoon", but Baron Samedi doesn't work for me. His evil laughter is his big plus (it works great in the scene where he burns a tarot card), the rest doesn't impress me. His 2 seconds fight against Bond is very disappointing and I don't like the Voodoo stuff in general.
    You could argue that Dario isn't more than a usual thug, but he has some very evil moments and he gets a very violent death (which is satisfying). He kills Della (!) and his line about the honeymoon is very dark and sticks in mind like his nasty grin.
    He disappears in the middle of the movie and when he is almost forgotten, he Returns in a very unfavourable moment (for Bond).
    The Liparus looks very real. It's a great model. Nevertheless, I prefer the Severnaya scene: It is fascinating that Meddings even created the snowy landscape as a model and it looks absoultuely real to me. I remember that I thought (as a teenager) how crazy it is to film real jets crashing in satellites. I had no idea that it was done with models.
  • Posts: 1,917
    You could argue that Dario isn't more than a usual thug, but he has some very evil moments and he gets a very violent death (which is satisfying). He kills Della (!) and his line about the honeymoon is very dark and sticks in mind like his nasty grin.
    He disappears in the middle of the movie and when he is almost forgotten, he Returns in a very unfavourable moment (for Bond).
    quote]

    That's a great move by MGW in the script as it takes away a huge menace, especially when you consider Sanchez's other right-hand guys Perez and Braun are pretty common and even leads Bond to insult them in his first meeting with Sanchez. His reappearance really ups the suspense.
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