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I'll double dip on YOLT here too with the magnet scene. Very close though and I could swap my opinion on this depending on the day. Both are great.
As for the fishing scene, the car capture has some glorious John Barry music playing over it, but Sanchez' plane is a better catch.
Sanchez' plane makes the entire PTS look better.
The Sanchez fishing scene is awesome.
I saw YOLT in the cinema when I was just a child and that death left a frightening impression. I went to bed at night several times looking up at the ceiling hoping there weren't bad guys up there ready to dribble poison into my mouth. But my first childhood home had a ceiling height of about 6 feet 6 inches, so I was pretty safe. If anything, it shows how pop culture can play on a child's mind.
My ultimate choice is Saunders' death. Whereas both Aki and Saunders start out shifty, not knowing we can trust them, Aki falls quickly for Bond and doesn't develop much. She was the first woman to have great skills that helped save Bond, so points for that, but she becomes more of a companion. With Saunders, there's a warmer feeling when that frosty relationship develops into one of mutual respect and that makes his death ultimately more personal for me.
That shocked look on Dalton's face and the waiter dropping the tray always stand out, followed by the Smiert Spionam balloon, his anger and then regret as he leaps the fence, Walther drawn, to be shocked by a mom and child. Then he takes it out on Kara, who just moments before had enjoyed a romantic evening and with Bond. It's good writing and direction.
Contrast that with YOLT. Aki is struggling, Bond casually shoots the assassin and as she continues to struggle and eventually pass, Tiger comes in and Bond is all business - "Tiger, we must get to that island." It's on to the next girl then and Aki is forgotten. Then again, that's how the Connery Bond reacted to such things and I'd put that all down to Roald Dahl. I wonder how Maibaum would've handled it.
While I find it one of the weaker precredit sequences, I will easily take Sanchez' plane for question 2.
The YOLT magnet scene is a shining example of what's wrong with that film and the series at that point. It was about showing something spectacular even if it doesn't make a bit of sense. Bond and Aki need help, so let's dispatch a helicopter conveniently equipped with a magnet that will get to their location in mere seconds to conveniently pick up the baddies and dump them into the water.
So many questions: Who is filming it, the same satellite that watches the SPECTRE rocket? Does the Japanese Secret Service have a licence to kill equivalent as they apparently leave these guys to drown? Is this their policy as to getting rid of pests? Why not interrogate them? What if they also were driving a convertible with the top down?
While it's nowhere near the most exciting in-air action in a Bond film, the plane fishing is much more satisfying than the magnet. For one, it's got Bond directly involved and Dalton did some of the aerial stunts himself.
Aki's death is unexpected and sad. She only dies as the poison meant for Bond drips into her mouth as Bond moves and she with him. At least she has plenty of screen time for us to feel sympathy for her. It's a good role, and is played well.
Saunders death is also sad, however we know either he or Bond is the target of Necros.
The thing I like about Saunders is at the beginning he's a by the book, stick to the rules kind of guy. Everything has to be done according to protocol. Bond irks him, and he irks Bond. Over the course of the film, Saunders realises that Bond could be onto something and so drops his guard to assist. Getting Bond passports and documents to continue, Bond in the Prater café appreciated the effort that Saunders has gone too. Moments later Saunders is brutally murdered, and the rage on Bond's face perfectly shows how angered he is by his colleagues demise.
As much as I love Aki, and her role in YOLT. I cant not vote for Saunders death.
He's one of my favourite allies, up their with Kerim Bey and Milos Colombo .
I thought the second one was going to be easier. The helicopter magnet is silly, and as has been mentioned, the shot of the helpless villains in the car wondering what's going on doesn't help. However the concept of it all is quite impressive. The shot of the massive helicopter approaching, picking the car up and flying over Tokyo bay is all beautifully shot. The logistics of shooting such a scene in '66/'67 are mind blowing.
And then we have the plane fishing from LTK. A good end of the pts stunt featuring Dalton doing some impressive stunt work, almost perfectly matched with that of Jake Lombard from a much higher height for real.
The whole sequence is exciting and a novel idea for 'let's go fishing.'
I was going to go with plane fishing for this one, but the whole absurdity of the helicopter magnet and the way it's shot (for real) and the naff rear projection, has made me change my mind to car fishing from YOLT.
Sanchez' plane. The one thing in YOLT that causes me to wince in embarrassment is the car magnet. And this is coming from someone that loves the epic “spectacle” that is YOLT.
And I like your childhood story @BT3366. I'm pretty sure that it would have also terryfied me at this age!
I believe Saunder's death deserves to win. There are many perfectly written arguments for it. I'm also a fan of that scene, no doubt!
However, I give my vote to Aki. I like the fact that it isn't the usual "let's kill an ally" scene: Aki wasn't planned to be murdered, it's unexpected (as mentioned by @Benny). The way we see the poison slowly moving down is done very well. Thrilling stuff. Maybe it stands out for me because YOLT isn't a favourite of mine at all.
I'm again for the YOLT scene in the second game. The questions stated by @BT3366 are funny to think about. The car fishing is indeed an OTT scene, but well, there is also a rocket base in a volcano…Great score and unforgettable images…
The PTS in LTK is alright but it somehow looks too easy...and why didn't Sanchez see the approaching helicopter, why did he never look back?
Another funny part of the YOLT scene I forgot to add is I'm always amused by the henchman in the car who is still trying to steer while the car is off the ground. Was he trying to get a better vantage point of the view?
:))
Saunder's death wins against Aki's death: 10 : 4
Bond "fishes" Sanchez' plane wins against helicopter "fishes" the car with an electro magnet: 10 : 4
Round 35:
Two "henchwomen" changed their mind and saved the day for Bond. Which bondgirl (the character and the character development, not the actress!) do you prefer? Pussy Galore vs. May Day
I love ski action in bondfilms. There are amazing stunts in OHMSS, FYEO, TSWLM and in AVTAK. But what's about the one in TWINE? Let's compare it to another action scene from SP...
Which action scene do you prefer: ski action in TWINE vs. (snow) plane action in SP
I'll take the Snow Plane in SP.
This next one is tough. I'll go with TWINE because of the parahawks and the nice little joke later in the film about it. I also love Brosnan's face when the parahawk falls off the cliff and pulls out another parachute. I still do like Snow Plane, mainly due to Madeline Swann and Thomas Newman's score.
The next one is also tricky as I'm not particularly fond of either sequence tbh. The SP plane scene was average, and not very exciting, and TWINE sequence always distracts me because it makes no geographical sense if you watch closely, but it's definitely more exciting so I'll go for TWINE.
The ski chase in TWINE beats SP easily. The Snow Plane vs Hinx's cars is just a straight and rigid line until everything explodes.
I find TWINE's ski action and the snowplane in Sp to be two of the dullest set pieces in the franchise. I can't stand either of them. But I will give the win to TWINE because it was Craig and his "c'mon. C'monnnnn" that grated on me more than anything Brosnan did in his scenes.
As for the snow sequence - the ski action in TWINE looks crisper and more fun. Why did they add that stupid filter in Spectre? It made the scenes look so much uglier.
Pussy Galore by miles galore. Fans know Fleming's version of her is one of his least inspired (the name aside) as an avowed lesbian turns to Bond's side on the smallest of whims. But like a lot of other improvements Maibaum and Dehn made in their screenplay over Fleming's book, Pussy benefits. You feel she's onboard with GF throughout. I think Bond intrigues her enough she doesn't mind the assignments of being around him. For instance, she's not on the security team, she's GF's pilot, so why is it her who leads the search for the escaped Bond?
I know a lot of people are uncomfortable about the way Bond persuades Pussy to join him, it is tough to watch with modern eyes, but this writing also reflects well on how Bond has to use his wits and charm, the only things at his disposal, to turn things when the gadgets aren't available.
For me, May Day is disappointing. We start out with a unique character who seems as vicious and crazy as Zorin and ends up completely opposite. Whereas Maibaum and Dehn improved on Pussy in GF, he and Wilson regress with May Day's treatment in AVTAK. There are Bond and her lunging at each other's throats in the mine, yes, we're getting the confrontation the film has been building up to. Then suddenly she's a crying mess and bent on revenge, a reformed villain and, worse, a martyr. It's not like Bond had any kind of influence on her change other than mutually wanting to stop Zorin. "And I thought that creep loved me" is such a cringey line. Sorry, that's not a character arch, that's just copping out. If they wanted a real finale it should've been May Day instead of Scarpine in the blimp with an exhausted Bond having to stop her and Zorin. Just imagine Rosa Klebb, Fiona Volpe or Xenia Onatopp making that type of change of heart.
Both snow scenes are at the bottom of a series with so many top-notch such settings. I've always counted TWINE's as one of the worst in the series. My viewing of it last week reaffirmed that.
First off, it's like the creative team said make sure we get a snow scene in the story. "I have to inspect the line." Wouldn't Elektra have staff to do that? Flimsy.
The parahawks were unique vehicles, but the execution is poor. Watch the scene and it's almost like a trial run. Bond skis here, explosion there. When they land, you have the henchmen who can't shoot a target just yards in front of them and they have countless chances. So little suspense and easier than it should be. Bond should've broken every bone in his body after ripping through the one's chute and landing. Then top it off with one of the stupidest and laziest gadgets to ever come from Q branch, the snow jacket shelter. It's not like Bond was knowingly going into a snowy climate like OHMSS or FYEO. It was just convenience. Imagine if they'd added that to the avalanche scene in OHMSS.
At least the SP scene features the main henchman, a formidable threat and not exclusively faceless goons. That adds to this scene. It's also in line with the Craig Bond's dogged pursuit dedication. Can't say a whole lot more for it, but at least it's not predictable and just a showcase for unique vehicles and snow.
TWINE
I'm not a fan of Grace Jones and the sex scene between her and Bond is painful to watch (it is well documented that they didn't like each other and it is really odd to watch). Anyway, I prefer May Day. She is part of some great action scenes, she is a bit over the top and works perfect in combination with "crazy Zorin". I like her character turn and her fate (it is unique). Nicely described by @peter. His facial reaction is brilliant there. I have to admit (as mentioned by @BT3366) that the parahawk thughs are absolutley incompetent in hitting a target, even when Bond is only a few meters away! It's a bit disappointing especially comapred to the other great ski action Scenes in Bond movies.
However, I prefer the TWINE action compared to the snow plane in SP. Difficult to say why, but the snow plane never carried me along. The final stunt (plane vs. house) looks good but I've seen it too often in trailers* before the film was released and I was really disappointed that the action didn't go on after this crash. I really hoped for a second part with skis or a sleigh.
*This is one of the main reasons why I don't watch any trailers for NTTD.
and
(snow) plane action in SP
SP over TWINE
Both chases are really disappointing. In SP, the basic idea of snowplane vs. car is good; if somehow Bond was able to steer it right or left (with some gadget perhaps) it could have been much more interesting. The music is quite good, and the little side story with Q is OK as well.
The Q device in TWINE is disappointing; I guess they mainly wanted to use it for the scene in the beginning when R gets entrapped in it.
Pussy Galore vs. May Day (characer, not actress): 7 : 7
Less favoured snow action: TWINE wins against SP: 8 : 6
Round 36:
A) Which Bond/Bondgirl combination do you prefer in terms of authenticity and chemistry? Bond&Octopussy(Moore&Adams) vs. Bond&Kara (Dalton&d'Abo)
B) Which PTS moment* do you prefer? GE-out of the chemical weapons facility. All weapons are pointed in Bond's direction who is hiding behind a "trolley": Ourumov: "You can't win"...vs. TWINE- out of the bank. Bond is threatend at the bank in Bilbao and doesn't use the door to escape.
* I would like to focus ONLY to the moment when Bond is in the facility, in the room where he puts the bomb and is surrounded by Ourumov and his soldiers. This moment and how he gets out. The bungee jump (which I absoultely love) and the final motorcycle/plane stunt (spectactular but often bashed on this forum because of the lack of realism) are NOT part of this round. Compare this moment to the Bilbao part from the TWINE PTS.
It's not about the huge Stunts and action pieces but more about the smaller moments which are probably less discussed.
1/Tim really seemed to want to bring in more genuine romanticism in his films— kudos and respect, but; nothing can beat CHEMISTRY: OP for the clear win.
2/ slickly choreographed and executed, with an Arnold soundtrack, TWINE for the win.
The TWINE PTS is actually quite enjoyable and more grounded in realism than GE with the freefall into the airplane