Weekly Bond Poll: Round 59: secondary Bond girls & helicopter flights

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Comments

  • edited May 2020 Posts: 698
    Bond and Octopussy easily. I can see Bond settling down with Octopussy, but can't see Dalton's Bond settling down with Kara. I struggle to buy Dalton's Bond falling for Kara and think he was better suited to Pam personally.

    Although I prefer TWINE pts more, the individual moment in GE is much better. The use of sound is really suspenseful and oddly comedic, and Ourumov's delivery is superb. TWINE is just setup for a much better set-piece coming up.
  • Posts: 928
    A) Bond&Kara (Dalton&d'Abo)

    B) GoldenEye: "You can't win"...
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited May 2020 Posts: 3,262
    Round 36:

    A) Which Bond/Bondgirl combination do you prefer in terms of authenticity and chemistry?

    Definitely Bond&Kara (Dalton&d'Abo).

    I consider the TLD supercouple the most believable Bond/Bond girl couple in the series though I do rank Moore/Adams in OP a close 2nd. And I consider both of these 1980s Bond/Bond girl couples as more authentic than either Mr. and Mrs. Lazenby Bond in OHMSS or Craig Bond/Vesper in CR.

    B) Which PTS moment do you prefer?

    TWINE- out of the bank. Bond is threatened at the bank in Bilbao and doesn't use the door to escape.

    More plausibly executed.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    A) TLD - Bond and Kara. I think they have an authentic romantic relationship that builds slowly over time. I like the friend zone that Bond is running in at the beginning, Kara's eyes light up when Koskov is mentioned. She's clearly still in love with him, but her experiences with Bond make her melt until her eyes sparkle when she's wearing the blue dress at the fair and looks up at Bond in the tux. It works that just after their first kiss that Saunders is killed. It hardens Bond and refocuses him on his mission, ups the stakes and distances him from Kara again causing her to reach out to Whittaker in Tangiers.

    This may be controversial, but I think Maud Adams in OP is a little overrated. I prefer her performance as the conflicted Andrea Anders in TMWTGG. Octopussy as a character is not made enough use of and ironically, she ends up as more of a damsel in distress in the final moments of OP than Kara ever does.

    B) GE - PTS I like GE's PTS overall - the 00s on a mission, the cool and comedic moments in it and the spectacular stunts, TWINE's PTS is a bit of a mess and the messiest part about it is the first scene.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited May 2020 Posts: 4,483
    Thanks for yout votes and interesting comments @SaintMark and @Major_Boothroyd. Apologize, my second question wasn't written clear enough. I would like to focus ONLY about the moment when Bond is in the facility, in the room where he puts the bomb and is surrounded by Ourumov and his soldiers. This moment and how he gets out. The bungee jump (which I absoultely love) and the final motorcycle/plane stunt (spectactular but often bashed on this forum because of the lack of realism) are NOT part of this round. Feel free to change your vote if this moment for itself is preferred.

    I will also specify it above.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited May 2020 Posts: 4,483
    A) TLD - Bond and Kara. I think they have an authentic romantic relationship that builds slowly over time. I like the friend zone that Bond is running in at the beginning, Kara's eyes light up when Koskov is mentioned. She's clearly still in love with him, but her experiences with Bond make her melt until her eyes sparkle when she's wearing the blue dress at the fair and looks up at Bond in the tux. It works that just after their first kiss that Saunders is killed. It hardens Bond and refocuses him on his mission, ups the stakes and distances him from Kara again causing her to reach out to Whittaker in Tangiers.

    This may be controversial, but I think Maud Adams in OP is a little overrated. I prefer her performance as the conflicted Andrea Anders in TMWTGG. Octopussy as a character is not made enough use of and ironically, she ends up as more of a damsel in distress in the final moments of OP than Kara ever does.

    The relationship between Bond and Kara is perfectly described here. Thanks for that. And
    your comment about Adams is an interesting point to discuss.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Bond and Kara is the best relationship between since Bond and Tracey On Her Majesty's Secret Service. While I will commend the producers for pairing Moore with an age appropriate woman, I find the chemistry between Dalton and D'Abo more believable. The way it progresses over the film is brilliant. Kara's innocence and how Bond uses that to his advantage, but then lets his guard down, which ultimately leads to the death of Saunders and later on him being poisoned by Kara on the instruction of Koskov and captured.
    A) TLD - Bond and Kara. I think they have an authentic romantic relationship that builds slowly over time. I like the friend zone that Bond is running in at the beginning, Kara's eyes light up when Koskov is mentioned. She's clearly still in love with him, but her experiences with Bond make her melt until her eyes sparkle when she's wearing the blue dress at the fair and looks up at Bond in the tux. It works that just after their first kiss that Saunders is killed. It hardens Bond and refocuses him on his mission, ups the stakes and distances him from Kara again causing her to reach out to Whittaker in Tangiers.

    +1

    The second head-to-head is more difficult. While I like the ingenuity of Bond using the trolley to escape, controversially, I think I prefer the moment where Bond lunges out of the window with the briefcase, using one of his attackers as ballast. While I find David Arnold extremely overrated and often criticise his overuse of the Bond theme, this is definitely one of the moments where you want to hear it. The fact that the theme kicks in exactly when Bond leaps off the balcony too is awesome. I think for the first time, I'll go with The World Is Not Enough.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I have no preference when it comes to the pairings. None of them are very good.

    When it comes to the pts moments, TWINE steals it handily. A great scene in an otherwise poor film.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    As much as I like Moore/Adams I've got to go with Dalton/d'Abo. Both are top-notch though, add Lazenby/Rigg and you might have the franchise's top 3.

    A similar outcome in the second face-off, I like the GE one but I prefer the one from TWINE.
  • Posts: 631
    Dalton and d’Abo
    GE
  • Max_The_ParrotMax_The_Parrot ATAC to St Cyril’s
    Posts: 2,426
    Definitely Roger and Maud who have such twinkles in their eyes working together in OP, such a shame British TV never grabbed them after Roger left Bond to create a sitcom with the two, George and Mildred style

    georgeandmildred.jpg

    And TWINE for me, something so simple and yet so Bond about his escape through the window, and I love the little Brosnan nod to the pedestrians at the bottom.
  • Posts: 7,653
    I stick with TWINE, as it shows to the smarts 007 has and he employs in a tight situation and solutions within that room.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,847
    Tough choice, and there is no doubt about the chemistry between Roger Moore and Maud Adams. That said, I like the way Bond and Kara’s affection grows over the course of the movie, so it gets my vote.

    GE gets my vote for the PTS moment.
  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    Posts: 280
    Bond and Octopussy/Moore and Adams

    TWINE
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    Bond/Kara

    GE
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    Bond and Octopussy. They did a good job in matching Moore's age with her. They should have ended his tenure with them riding off in the boat together. Nothing against Bond and Kara.

    I love everything about GE, however the best part of TWINE is the window escape and with the theme blaring during the setup and jump I'll have to give it to TWINE.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    Kara and Bond, TWINE.
    Love Octopussy, but they do have that one awful melodramatic scene where Bond follows her to the other room and kisses her. Kind of cringe. The romance in TLD feels authentic and is some of the best in the series, maybe the best.

    I vastly prefer the GE PTS to TWINE's, but the banker stuff is all very solid.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    Kara and Bond
    And
    TWINE
  • Posts: 1,917
    For question 1, I have to go with Moore Bond and Octopussy, simply because Adams is by far the best natural match for Moore's Bond. It's like they finally got the ideal chemistry, the right partner for him especially considering that film is bookended by much younger leading ladies whose presence made it a distraction for a lot of viewers. And as Adams' Andrea Anders has a relatively small role when we got left with Goodnight in TMWTGG, having her back in OP was a chance to really expand on the chemistry they shared there.

    I like the scene where she has the standoff with Bond and he kisses her, winning her to his side. It's not as forceful as far as Bond and Pussy in the hay in GF or how Bond tricks Solitaire into bed in LALD. No, it's not good acting or politically correct but it's very much a reflection of the Bond of the time and his way of winning a female to his side. I don't think you could get away with a scene like that today. Octopussy also stands out as a title character, a rarity for a Bond film to have the main female the title also. She's also not as helpless as some Bond women, very powerful without the label of Bond equal who still gets captured regardless and needs rescued by Bond. Octopussy confronts Kamal on her own, although he overpowers her easily and it's a nice excuse for Bond to rescue her.

    Dalton Bond and Kara are a different relationship. She is more or less an innocent and the romance over just bedding the girl is a welcome change and she has a character arc. I don't dislike the character as a lot of fans do, but I am not a big fan.

    Question 2 is very tough. The TWINE escape may just be the highlight of that film for me. It's pure Bond and it wouldn't have bothered me a bit to make that the entire precredits.

    I prefer the GE escape because of the situation. TWINE offers Bond with a banker and 3 heavies or so, small room, police coming. True he has to be resourceful, but a handy gadget gets him the upper hand in the first place (that piton belt from GE or watch from later in the film sure would've come in handy with the escape too). Also, when he's suspended in the air, there appeared to be other ledges on the building and possibly could've held onto one of those and broken another window.

    But GE has so much else going on that makes Bond's situation much tougher and more suspenseful.

    First, he sees his colleague and friend killed before his eyes. He's got a crazy general and dozens of soldiers with machine guns aimed at him. How will he get out of this one?There's also the added character moment of Orumov shooting the soldier who shot at Bond. Here, Bond also uses what's at his disposal to escape.

    I know we're not counting the rest of the precredit, but I do have to add Bond in GE still has a bigger challenge in completing his escape in that he's still on a mountain fortress with soldiers still shooting at him and has to catch that plane. In TWINE, once he reaches the ground, he merely walks away.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    Great to have a few new voters this week and again some enjoying and well-thought comments.

    I first wanted to vote for the TLD relationship. The film really takes it time to develop their story arc and the more serious and (more believable) "love" story works very good for me. Nevertheless, the OP voters convinced me to change my decision and vote for Bond/Octopussy. Moore and Adams are really the perfect match.

    I realized, that among the fans on this forum, the first part of the TWINE PTS is generally preferred to the boat chase. Both parts are very enjoying for me but I'm a huge fan of the GE PTS in general. The specific moment insinde the russian facility isn't too spectacular compared to big Stunts before and after but I love that moment because of it's tension. Bond is suddenly alone and surrounded, no gadget, no music, only the squeaking trolley, the nervous and killed soldier and Ourumov's line: "You can't win". Perfect build up for Bonds heroic reaction and the music kicks in again. GE PTS wins easily for me despite the strong start in TWINE.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    A) TLD - Bond and Kara. I think they have an authentic romantic relationship that builds slowly over time. I like the friend zone that Bond is running in at the beginning, Kara's eyes light up when Koskov is mentioned. She's clearly still in love with him, but her experiences with Bond make her melt until her eyes sparkle when she's wearing the blue dress at the fair and looks up at Bond in the tux. It works that just after their first kiss that Saunders is killed. It hardens Bond and refocuses him on his mission, ups the stakes and distances him from Kara again causing her to reach out to Whittaker in Tangiers.

    Well put.

    Octopussy wrote: »
    Bond and Kara is the best relationship between since Bond and Tracey On Her Majesty's Secret Service. While I will commend the producers for pairing Moore with an age appropriate woman, I find the chemistry between Dalton and D'Abo more believable. The way it progresses over the film is brilliant. Kara's innocence and how Bond uses that to his advantage, but then lets his guard down, which ultimately leads to the death of Saunders and later on him being poisoned by Kara on the instruction of Koskov and captured.

    Also well put. And then Kara realizes that Bond is not only her ally but the man that saved her life from the "friend" who tried to kill her resulting in her reconciliation with him making for a very well-written relationship between the two of them. It's nice that they put aside the standard 3 girl formula for TLD. Moore and Adams are great as well but the Bond/Octopussy relationship isn't nearly as well developed in the OP script as the Bond/Kara one is in TLD's script.
    A) Which Bond/Bondgirl combination do you prefer in terms of authenticity and chemistry? Bond&Octopussy(Moore&Adams) vs. Bond&Kara (Dalton&d'Abo)

    @goldenswissroyale Just curious, what made you pick these 2 Bond/Bond girl couples? The reason I ask is I think they are the 2 most believable. I know that on paper it should probably be Bond/Tracy in OHMSS and Bond/Vesper in CR but for me these 2 1980s Bond/Bond girl couples work the most believably onscreen.

  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Bond and Octopussy (Moore and Adams)

    &

    GE pts (Easily)
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    @PrinceKamalKhan Great summary of the best comments for Bond/Kara.

    Yes, I picked the two because they seem to be part of the best pairings. TLD takes a lot of time to develop a believable story arc, while Moore and Adams have a great chemistry in genereal. Of course, OHMSS and CR would also be interesting to discuss, but A) I thought that they are generelly more discussed already and B) they are a bit different because of the more dramatic endings.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    Results of round 36:
    It was very close twice.
    Authenticity/chemistry: Bond&Kara (Dalton&d'Abo) wins against Bond&Octopussy(Moore&Adams) : 10 : 9
    PTS moments. "Out of the bank" (first part of TWINE) wins against "out of the weapons facility ("You can't win"; GE): 11 : 9

    Round 37:

    The latest elimination game showed that the twins from OP are surprisingly popular among some fans. But are they favoured compared to the other famous killer duo?

    Which deadly henchmen duo do you prefer: Wint & Kidd vs. Mischka & Grischka

    By the way: Is it only me struggling to differentiate them(?!) Could you easily answer those questions:
    What's the name of the one with glasses: Wint or Kidd?
    Which one dies first: Mischka or Grischka?


    Which PTS ending (commented by Bond) do you prefer: "Shocking. Positively shocking." (GF) vs. "Yes. Considerably" (CR).

    By the way: Did you realize that GE and SP feature similar PTS endings? And TWINE and SF? Maybe something for another round...




  • Posts: 7,653
    Wint & Kidd they would have killed those flaming circus artists including any clown.

    &

    "Shocking. Positively shocking." It is Connery at the height of His 007-ness
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited May 2020 Posts: 3,262
    Results of round 36:
    Authenticity/chemistry: Bond&Kara (Dalton&d'Abo) wins against Bond&Octopussy(Moore&Adams) : 10 : 9

    Congrats to Dalton/Bond and d'Abo/Kara. Also congrats to Moore/Bond and Adams/Octopussy for a very close 2nd.

    Round 37:


    Which deadly henchmen duo do you prefer: Mischka & Grischka


    Which PTS ending (commented by Bond) do you prefer: "Shocking. Positively shocking." (GF)
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    Which one dies first: Mischka or Grischka?
    Mischka dies first because Grischka calls his name when Bond is on top of the train in Mischka's clothes.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Wint & Kidd they would have killed those flaming circus artists including any clown.

    &

    "Shocking. Positively shocking." It is Connery at the height of His 007-ness

    +1. Although the pts match-up is a close one.
  • Posts: 631
    I used to get Wint and Kidd the wrong way round all the time when I was younger. Even now (and I love the film) I have to stop and think whether Wint is Kidd or Kidd is Wint.

    Similarly in Lord of the Rings I can never immediately recall which one is Merry and which one is Pippin.

    Anyway Wint and Kidd, obviously.

    Although Sean’s shocking line is enjoyable, at the end of the day it’s just another post-death quip, like ‘I think he got the point.’ But Craig’s considerably line in CR is a clever piece of writing. I don’t like CR as much as most others here but this PTS ending is very well done, so CR please
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited May 2020 Posts: 45,489
    I have never had any trouble keeping Wint and Kidd apart, but in the book they are called Wint and Gore, with Wint having the Kidd personality from the film and Gore having the Wint peronality. There is a third minor character called Kidd, so it is all a bit confusing.

    I have a Norwegian edition from 1966, obviously directly translated from the original first edition, before Fleming changed the name of Boofus Gore to Kidd in later editions. His wife s sister was married to a Boofus Gore, and he was very upset that Fleming gave his name to a homosexual thug.
    66Diamanter-457x457.jpg
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