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Comments
Although I prefer TWINE pts more, the individual moment in GE is much better. The use of sound is really suspenseful and oddly comedic, and Ourumov's delivery is superb. TWINE is just setup for a much better set-piece coming up.
B) GoldenEye: "You can't win"...
A) Which Bond/Bondgirl combination do you prefer in terms of authenticity and chemistry?
Definitely Bond&Kara (Dalton&d'Abo).
I consider the TLD supercouple the most believable Bond/Bond girl couple in the series though I do rank Moore/Adams in OP a close 2nd. And I consider both of these 1980s Bond/Bond girl couples as more authentic than either Mr. and Mrs. Lazenby Bond in OHMSS or Craig Bond/Vesper in CR.
B) Which PTS moment do you prefer?
TWINE- out of the bank. Bond is threatened at the bank in Bilbao and doesn't use the door to escape.
More plausibly executed.
This may be controversial, but I think Maud Adams in OP is a little overrated. I prefer her performance as the conflicted Andrea Anders in TMWTGG. Octopussy as a character is not made enough use of and ironically, she ends up as more of a damsel in distress in the final moments of OP than Kara ever does.
B) GE - PTS I like GE's PTS overall - the 00s on a mission, the cool and comedic moments in it and the spectacular stunts, TWINE's PTS is a bit of a mess and the messiest part about it is the first scene.
I will also specify it above.
The relationship between Bond and Kara is perfectly described here. Thanks for that. And
your comment about Adams is an interesting point to discuss.
+1
The second head-to-head is more difficult. While I like the ingenuity of Bond using the trolley to escape, controversially, I think I prefer the moment where Bond lunges out of the window with the briefcase, using one of his attackers as ballast. While I find David Arnold extremely overrated and often criticise his overuse of the Bond theme, this is definitely one of the moments where you want to hear it. The fact that the theme kicks in exactly when Bond leaps off the balcony too is awesome. I think for the first time, I'll go with The World Is Not Enough.
When it comes to the pts moments, TWINE steals it handily. A great scene in an otherwise poor film.
A similar outcome in the second face-off, I like the GE one but I prefer the one from TWINE.
GE
And TWINE for me, something so simple and yet so Bond about his escape through the window, and I love the little Brosnan nod to the pedestrians at the bottom.
GE gets my vote for the PTS moment.
TWINE
GE
I love everything about GE, however the best part of TWINE is the window escape and with the theme blaring during the setup and jump I'll have to give it to TWINE.
Love Octopussy, but they do have that one awful melodramatic scene where Bond follows her to the other room and kisses her. Kind of cringe. The romance in TLD feels authentic and is some of the best in the series, maybe the best.
I vastly prefer the GE PTS to TWINE's, but the banker stuff is all very solid.
And
TWINE
I like the scene where she has the standoff with Bond and he kisses her, winning her to his side. It's not as forceful as far as Bond and Pussy in the hay in GF or how Bond tricks Solitaire into bed in LALD. No, it's not good acting or politically correct but it's very much a reflection of the Bond of the time and his way of winning a female to his side. I don't think you could get away with a scene like that today. Octopussy also stands out as a title character, a rarity for a Bond film to have the main female the title also. She's also not as helpless as some Bond women, very powerful without the label of Bond equal who still gets captured regardless and needs rescued by Bond. Octopussy confronts Kamal on her own, although he overpowers her easily and it's a nice excuse for Bond to rescue her.
Dalton Bond and Kara are a different relationship. She is more or less an innocent and the romance over just bedding the girl is a welcome change and she has a character arc. I don't dislike the character as a lot of fans do, but I am not a big fan.
Question 2 is very tough. The TWINE escape may just be the highlight of that film for me. It's pure Bond and it wouldn't have bothered me a bit to make that the entire precredits.
I prefer the GE escape because of the situation. TWINE offers Bond with a banker and 3 heavies or so, small room, police coming. True he has to be resourceful, but a handy gadget gets him the upper hand in the first place (that piton belt from GE or watch from later in the film sure would've come in handy with the escape too). Also, when he's suspended in the air, there appeared to be other ledges on the building and possibly could've held onto one of those and broken another window.
But GE has so much else going on that makes Bond's situation much tougher and more suspenseful.
First, he sees his colleague and friend killed before his eyes. He's got a crazy general and dozens of soldiers with machine guns aimed at him. How will he get out of this one?There's also the added character moment of Orumov shooting the soldier who shot at Bond. Here, Bond also uses what's at his disposal to escape.
I know we're not counting the rest of the precredit, but I do have to add Bond in GE still has a bigger challenge in completing his escape in that he's still on a mountain fortress with soldiers still shooting at him and has to catch that plane. In TWINE, once he reaches the ground, he merely walks away.
I first wanted to vote for the TLD relationship. The film really takes it time to develop their story arc and the more serious and (more believable) "love" story works very good for me. Nevertheless, the OP voters convinced me to change my decision and vote for Bond/Octopussy. Moore and Adams are really the perfect match.
I realized, that among the fans on this forum, the first part of the TWINE PTS is generally preferred to the boat chase. Both parts are very enjoying for me but I'm a huge fan of the GE PTS in general. The specific moment insinde the russian facility isn't too spectacular compared to big Stunts before and after but I love that moment because of it's tension. Bond is suddenly alone and surrounded, no gadget, no music, only the squeaking trolley, the nervous and killed soldier and Ourumov's line: "You can't win". Perfect build up for Bonds heroic reaction and the music kicks in again. GE PTS wins easily for me despite the strong start in TWINE.
Well put.
Also well put. And then Kara realizes that Bond is not only her ally but the man that saved her life from the "friend" who tried to kill her resulting in her reconciliation with him making for a very well-written relationship between the two of them. It's nice that they put aside the standard 3 girl formula for TLD. Moore and Adams are great as well but the Bond/Octopussy relationship isn't nearly as well developed in the OP script as the Bond/Kara one is in TLD's script.
@goldenswissroyale Just curious, what made you pick these 2 Bond/Bond girl couples? The reason I ask is I think they are the 2 most believable. I know that on paper it should probably be Bond/Tracy in OHMSS and Bond/Vesper in CR but for me these 2 1980s Bond/Bond girl couples work the most believably onscreen.
&
GE pts (Easily)
Yes, I picked the two because they seem to be part of the best pairings. TLD takes a lot of time to develop a believable story arc, while Moore and Adams have a great chemistry in genereal. Of course, OHMSS and CR would also be interesting to discuss, but A) I thought that they are generelly more discussed already and B) they are a bit different because of the more dramatic endings.
It was very close twice.
Authenticity/chemistry: Bond&Kara (Dalton&d'Abo) wins against Bond&Octopussy(Moore&Adams) : 10 : 9
PTS moments. "Out of the bank" (first part of TWINE) wins against "out of the weapons facility ("You can't win"; GE): 11 : 9
Round 37:
The latest elimination game showed that the twins from OP are surprisingly popular among some fans. But are they favoured compared to the other famous killer duo?
Which deadly henchmen duo do you prefer: Wint & Kidd vs. Mischka & Grischka
By the way: Is it only me struggling to differentiate them(?!) Could you easily answer those questions:
What's the name of the one with glasses: Wint or Kidd?
Which one dies first: Mischka or Grischka?
Which PTS ending (commented by Bond) do you prefer: "Shocking. Positively shocking." (GF) vs. "Yes. Considerably" (CR).
By the way: Did you realize that GE and SP feature similar PTS endings? And TWINE and SF? Maybe something for another round...
&
"Shocking. Positively shocking." It is Connery at the height of His 007-ness
Congrats to Dalton/Bond and d'Abo/Kara. Also congrats to Moore/Bond and Adams/Octopussy for a very close 2nd.
Round 37:
Which deadly henchmen duo do you prefer: Mischka & Grischka
Which PTS ending (commented by Bond) do you prefer: "Shocking. Positively shocking." (GF)
+1. Although the pts match-up is a close one.
Similarly in Lord of the Rings I can never immediately recall which one is Merry and which one is Pippin.
Anyway Wint and Kidd, obviously.
Although Sean’s shocking line is enjoyable, at the end of the day it’s just another post-death quip, like ‘I think he got the point.’ But Craig’s considerably line in CR is a clever piece of writing. I don’t like CR as much as most others here but this PTS ending is very well done, so CR please
I have a Norwegian edition from 1966, obviously directly translated from the original first edition, before Fleming changed the name of Boofus Gore to Kidd in later editions. His wife s sister was married to a Boofus Gore, and he was very upset that Fleming gave his name to a homosexual thug.