Weekly Bond Poll: Round 59: secondary Bond girls & helicopter flights

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  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Mischka & Grischka.

    Both amazing lines delivered perfectly, but it's Connery's shocking for me.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    The henchmen battle is a tough one. The twins in Octopussy (I can't keep up with who is who), bring a dangerous gravitas to this Moore outing (one in which the tone could swing wildly), but I will go with Wint and Kidd (I DO know which is which), because, although they're sinister little pricks, there is something quite likeable about them-- with dialogue the actors dig into with relish.

    PTS endings-- both are done to perfection, but I will go with "yes. Considerably" since it follows one of the most shocking, and cold-hearted kills in the series. To me, James Bond was truly back by the conclusion of this scene, and the line further pushes that idea home.
  • Max_The_ParrotMax_The_Parrot ATAC to St Cyril’s
    Posts: 2,426
    I think both sets of henchman are memorable and could quite happily vote for the twins, but I like a bit of witty dialogue and if I could only keep one pairing it would be Wint and Kidd (not gonna lie, every time I watch it I have to wait until they mention each other in the Dr Tynan scene, I can then just about remember until the movie ends)

    Given I now use the word ‘considerably’ about 10000% more often than I used to, and yet I’ve never once found an opportunity to say ‘Shocking, positively shocking’ without sounding a knob, it’s clear that the CR line has made a bigger impact on me.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    I shall weigh in! Wint and Kidd top it for me. "If at first you don't succeed Mr. Kidd...try, try again Mr. Wint." "If God had wanted man to fly...He would have given him wings Mr. Kidd." Lovely pairing you believe these 2 are lovers and killers!

    I got to go with shocking, positively shocking delivered with such coolness and then the horns of the opening song! Great stuff!
  • Posts: 1,917
    I have never had any trouble keeping Wint and Kidd apart, but in the book they are called Wint and Gore, with Wint having the Kidd personality from the film and Gore having the Wint peronality. There is a third minor character called Kidd, so it is all a bit confusing.

    I have a Norwegian edition from 1966, obviously directly translated from the original first edition, before Fleming changed the name of Boofus Gore to Kidd in later editions. His wife s sister was married to a Boofus Gore, and he was very upset that Fleming gave his name to a homosexual thug.
    66Diamanter-457x457.jpg

    Is Boofus a common name or a nickname? I've never heard it and it sounds so close to doofus that it seems like a tough name to have, at least in the U.S.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited May 2020 Posts: 7,551
    Wint and Kidd, because, Fleming (and Kidd is the one with glasses).

    I suppose “Shocking” is better than “Considerably”, but the CR PTS is miles better generally, and the strict end of the CR PTS (gunbarrel) is miles better than the end of the GF PTS. I’m voting for CR.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    It is a nickname.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    Mishka & Grishka
    GF
  • Posts: 928
    Wint & Kidd (sorry, my countrymen Mischka and Grischka)

    "Yes. Considerably" (CR).
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited June 2020 Posts: 4,483
    The twins have a ver strong first scene are silent and a serious threat. They complete an already great henchmen ensemble with Gobinda and Orlov. Wint & Kidd can't be taken serious but this wouldn't be fitting for DAF anyway. DAF is far away from a good Bond film (imo) but the killer duo is a highlight for me. Barry's music for them makes it even better. I like it that they are part of the last scene. Much better to end the movie with them instead of the lousy oil rig stuff.

    It is good to know, that I'm not the only one mixing up the two sometimes;)
    Thanks for the interesting comment about the names in different editions @Thunderfinger, I didn't know that it wasn't Kidd in the beginning. Do you know which character was called Kidd in the first edition and how they renamed this character?

    The GF PTS is very good, no doubt. The "shocking" line never pleased me as much as it should. The reason might be that this line can't be translated properly in german and the wordplay didn't work for me as a teenager with little knowledge of foreign languages. By the way: This line was translated very diappointing for the german version and the joke was lost completely.
    I'm pretty sure that my vote would go to CR even if I had understood the GF line from the beginning. I love the end of the CR PTS. Perfectly edited, written and played. Bravo!

    @Max_The_Parrot I should definitely use "Considerably" once in a dialogue with purpose.

  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    As much as I enjoy Wint and Kidd, I find Mischka and Grischka to be more threatening.
    Their introduction to the audience is eerie. Hunting down OO9 as he tries to flee the circus. They also pose a very dangerous threat to Bond later in the film. I particularly like,
    "And that's for OO9!" as Bond disposes Grischka.

    For the second pairing I will go with "Shocking, positively shocking.", I do like Craig's delivery of "Considerably." in CR and it perfectly ends the pts. But I prefer Connery's line in GF more.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Thanks for the interesting comment about the names in different editions @Thunderfinger, I didn't know that it wasn't Kidd in the beginning. Do you know which character was called Kidd in the first edition and how they renamed this character?


    Kidd is one of the thugs who get killed somewhere in the middle of the book. I only have this edition, so I don t know how this got changed.
  • Max_The_ParrotMax_The_Parrot ATAC to St Cyril’s
    Posts: 2,426

    @Max_The_Parrot I should definitely use "Considerably" once in a dialogue with purpose.

    936180-A6-74-FD-410-C-9-C80-8-D78-C96799-FD.gif

    ☺️
  • Posts: 698
    Nearly missed this

    1) Wint and Kidd obviously. The other two don't even come into the conversation
    2) Yes considerably. The shocking line is great, but yes, considerably represents so much of what the Bond character is in Casino Royale.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    Wint & Kidd

    And

    Shocking, positively shocking
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    @2Wint2Kidd: I realized that you and me have often a similar bond taste. Our votes are identical most of the time.
  • Posts: 1,917
    Here I go just under the wire.

    First, Wint and Kidd, not an easy choice as I also like the twins, but they're more essential. A good percentage of the henchmen after the first 3 films were Red Grant or Oddjob variations, reminding viewers of those superior versions. With Wint and Kidd, they work because they don't stand out as people one would suspect as killers. They don't have super strength or handy gadgets, just the element of surprise because nobody suspects them.

    DAF was the first Bond film I saw in a cinema when it was new and my family thought they were hilarious and deadly, something different in 1971 while staying true in some ways to Fleming's villains. They still stand out today as being different, highly effective killers. The big downside is their ultimate deaths are more campy than satisfying. Was there any real doubt Connery Bond would waste these two?

    The twins are well used - they make the death of 009 atmospheric and one of the , but ultimately they are just part of the villainous network of Kamal and Orlov and below Gobinda. Kind of like Dario in LTK, they come in at a critical time to give Bond hell in trying to reach the base. Grischka's death is more satisfying than Wint or Kidd's as it's payback for 009 and show's Moore's tougher side.

    For the more effective teaser line, it's also a tough call. "Shocking is a classic and part of what made Goldfinger the classic it is. But I have to go with CR. By this point in the series, PTS are expected to deliver and as a reboot, this is lower-key but that's what makes it so effective, the stark black and white, the relatively unthreatening opponent in Dryden, but it's still tense as hell. The line is just pure Bond and not a double entendre or throwaway line but an effective start of a new era.

    Someone else previously said it best, that "Shocking, positively shocking" is on par with a lot of the other Connery-era one-liners, not necessarily better.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    Great final comment for this round (as usual), thanks @BT3366.
    It looks like a tie for the PTS endings...
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited June 2020 Posts: 4,483
    Results for round 37:

    Wint & Kidd are the preferred henchmen duo (12 votes) compared to the Mischka & Grischka (only 4 votes)
    Both PTS endings ("Shocking, positively shocking" vs. "Yes, considerably") get 8 votes. No winner, but no doubt two great moments.

    Round 38:

    Which car action scene filled with gadgets (i.e. missiles, special tires and much more!) is more entertaining? Ice an fire with the V8 Vantage (TLD) vs. car park mayhem with BMW 750 IL (TND).

    The vote isn't for the preferred car. It's about the car action and how the gadgets are incorporated to create an amusing action scene.

    Remember the first time you saw Blofeld and Jaws on screen? Mean and frightening and a real threat for Bond? Definitely not anymore after these moments:
    Which moment is less painful to watch (not as bad as the other one)? Blofeld in drag (DAF) vs. Jaws is falling in love (meets Dolly; MR)

    Or do you even like one of those moments?
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Round 38:

    Ice and fire with the V8 Vantage (TLD)

    and

    Jaws is falling in love (meets Dolly; MR)
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    750 iL (naturally)

    Jaws falls in love (I actually like this scene)
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited June 2020 Posts: 4,483
    750 iL (naturally)

    Jaws falls in love (I actually like this scene)

    Your first vote was a must be. The second one is more surprising but you are not the only one who likes the special love scene. Am I right @Max_The_Parrot?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I find the car and the action more “masculine” in TLD, and Dalton grounded it all and took away most of its silliness by playing it straight (TND was like “video game action” (and now the bad guy with the rocket launcher pops up, now fire through garage door...)). TLD for the win.

    Blofeld in drag wins. No silly music and soft lighting. It’s just a bats*** crazy scene.
  • Posts: 631
    TLD’s V8 for me

    And Blofeld in drag
  • edited June 2020 Posts: 698
    @2Wint2Kidd: I realized that you and me have often a similar bond taste. Our votes are identical most of the time.

    Great minds think a like!

    1) I went back and forth with this first one, but I might have to go slightly in favour of TLD's V8 Vantage. I like TND, mainly due to Arnold's music, but the back and forth between Bond and Kara is a lot more appealing to me. Both have great endings too!

    2) Blofeld in drag is just embarrassing. It completely destroys the creepy, menacing character we have seen in the two previous films. DAF has some cool moments for sure, but they're counterbalanced by some big wtf moments as well. As for Jaws falling in love, I'm still to this day not sure if I like Jaws being a goodie in MR, and Dolly is a big part of that so I'm not sure how I feel about that scene in general.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    edited June 2020 Posts: 330
    1. This is one of the toughest so far, for me that is. But I am going to have to give the edge to TLD's V8 Vantage. Don't get me wrong though, TND's car park sequence is also in my top 3 car chases of the series.

    2. I'm going with Jaws falling in love, the reason for this is that it's not reducing Jaws as a character. He already had plenty of silly moments in TSWLM, him falling in love with Dolly is just another one to add to the list. But taking Bond's greatest enemy and giving him a disguise like that... just awful.

  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    TLD V8 Vantage
    Though I really like both cars.

    Jaws falling in love.
    Though I really dislike both scenes.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited June 2020 Posts: 7,551
    V8 Vantage, Jaws Falling in Love. I actually don't mind the redemption of Jaws and his romance with Dolly, lol.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    @2Wint2Kidd . This means that you prefer Jaws falling in love or did I understand you wrong? The idea was to vote for the better (less annoying) scene.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    Round 38:

    Ice and fire with the V8 Vantage (TLD)

    and

    Jaws is falling in love (meets Dolly; MR)

    Make that two please.
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