Weekly Bond Poll: Round 59: secondary Bond girls & helicopter flights

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  • Max_The_ParrotMax_The_Parrot ATAC to St Cyril’s
    Posts: 2,426
    Tough call for Goldeneye, but Robbie Coltrane literally leads the allies to victory as far as I'm concerned, although I do have a soft spot for Samantha Bond's Moneypenny as well.

    As for the second, it's Spectre by a landslide (not often I get to say that). Must say though I haven't paid that much thought to the location cards in QoS (come to think of it, I can rarely muster the enthusiasm to pay that much attention to anything in QoS) and I did find the article you referenced very interesting reading @goldenswissroyale so I will pay particular attention to those when I next watch QoS.
  • Posts: 1,917
    marc wrote: »
    Directly after Sharkey's death it was the wrong time for an action scene IMO. With a different kind of atmosphere it could have become a great sequence.

    So Bond is surrounded by Krest's people, how else could this have been handled in your opinion? It all works out rather neatly the way it's constructed.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Quick question @goldenswissroyale, does D. M. Mishkin count as an ally too? :)

    I planned to have four listed on both sides... thought about him, too...I'm not sure if he is an ally per definition but maybe we should add him. Karyo is awesome in GE. I'll add him to the list and hope this doesn't change the vote of the first voters.

    Taking that into account I'm going to vote for the allies, even though the villains are great too.

    Concerning the other question, I've got to go for the title cards. I absolutely love those title cards!
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    BT3366 wrote: »
    marc wrote: »
    Directly after Sharkey's death it was the wrong time for an action scene IMO. With a different kind of atmosphere it could have become a great sequence.

    So Bond is surrounded by Krest's people, how else could this have been handled in your opinion? It all works out rather neatly the way it's constructed.
    You're right, it would probably have been difficult to do it another way.
    Actually, I have a general problem with LTK's Second Act atmosphere, so hardly any action scene would have suited me there. Bond infiltrating Sanchez' gang at the Casino is better because there he has to suppress his revenge feelings.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    Good to see a first vote for the location cards @GoldenGun. I'm also a fan.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    Good to see a first vote for the location cards @GoldenGun. I'm also a fan.

    Absolutely adore them. Love it how they give each location its own style.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,582
    "What else do we know about Janus?"
    50267194738_556ae0fdef_o.png

    and

    "The dead are alive"
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  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Octopussy wrote: »
    GE: the baddies

    and

    SP: the unique tracking shot. Inspired by this scene directed by Orson Welles:


    Once again, I'm with you @PrinceKamalKhan

    @Octopussy You know what they say about great minds? ;)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I can t decide between the goodies and baddies. They were both mostly awful.

    As for the other choice-I love the title cards, but the tracking shot is more impressive. (Yes, I know there was some cheating. Still impressive.)
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I'd like to participate in this wonderful thread again. First vote absolutely must go for the baddies. They're up there with FRWL and LALD for the best ensemble cast of villains in the series. Yes, Boris can be a bit over the top (and Xenia too for that matter), but it's all part of the fun factor that the film is aiming for. Although, "I am invincible" really does start to grate by the end, no bones about it. However, they're all fantastic, but Gottfired John's performance as Ourumov might actually be underrated for how great it is. Lost in the sea of excellent and more memorable villains throughout the history of the series no doubt.

    Next up is a no-brainer if I may say so implicitly. It has to be the title cards from QoS. I was always impressed by how much effort was put into them and it really adds some panache to the proceedings. I'm an unabashed QoS defender of course, but the SP shot just never did it for me, honestly. It feels forced, and indeed it is as it's not even one take. So what's the point? Mendes had an idea and an ego and this is the end result. It's not horrible by any means but it doesn't live up to its reputation from fans in my opinion.

    Someone mentioned 1917 and that shot delivers a much more organic experience by comparison. Two soldiers having a conversation while walking through the encampment. We get to observe the horrors of war from the perspective of these two individuals and it feels natural. It's not trying to be cute like SP. So hats off to Mendes because I believe he got it right there. We learn from our mistakes and practice makes perfect and all that jazz.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited August 2020 Posts: 4,483
    @QBranch is this pistol part of the PTS or just there because it looks great together with the rest?

    @Thunderfinger The goodies and the baddies are awful casted in GE? I will always respect all your opinions in the bond universe but we definitely don't like GE the same way ;)

    Great to see you back participating here @pachazo and your comment hits the nail on the head.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    @QBranch is this pistol part of the PTS or just there because it looks great together with the rest?

    @Thunderfinger The goodies and the baddies are awful casted in GE? I will always respect all your opinions in the bond universe but we definitely don't like GE the same way ;)

    Great to see you back participating here @pachazo and your comment hits the nail on the head.

    I have mentioned before that I do like Tcheky Kario and Gottfried John in the film (for the most part). But the rest are pretty bad, and it has more to do with the characters,lines of dialogue, and possibly direction, than the actors themselves. GE is a bottom three film for me.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,582
    @QBranch is this pistol part of the PTS or just there because it looks great together with the rest?
    During the helicopter fight, the pilot tries to shoot Bond with a flare pistol similar to this one.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    QBranch wrote: »
    @QBranch is this pistol part of the PTS or just there because it looks great together with the rest?
    During the helicopter fight, the pilot tries to shoot Bond with a flare pistol similar to this one.

    Ah, I completely forgot that. For which movie did you produce the most of such wonderful “props“? You could start an exhibition!
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited August 2020 Posts: 4,483
    Judi Dench? That's great casting! (Well, honestly, it is always good to have her in a movie, no matter what role she gets...). Robbie Coltrane? Great! Love that guy but it helps of course that he has some nice lines written for him. Joe Don Baker? Solid, he doesn't stand out but I can't complain. Samantha Bond? I like her name. She is alright but my least favourite Eon Moneypenny. Tcheky Karyo? He is perfect (imo). Both of his scens are great, especially because of the interaction with Ourumov:
    Gottfried John is the highlight of a splendid cast. His facial reactions are gold. Famke acts over the top...or was it ona top (?), I love this crazy character and I think that she plays it very good. Alan Cumming isn't liked much by the voters but he works absolutely fine for me. Again, sometimes a bit over the top but very memorable (in a good way for me, although I can understand the dislikes...). These three are my favourite henchmen trio of the franchise! And Sean Bean? I'm not sure if he was the perfect man for this role, he was a bit "pale" (I hope this is the right word) BUT I like Sean Bean in general and he has one of the best fights of the franchise. And at least three of the baddies have a great death scene! All in all, the baddies are a main reason why I love GE so much.

    It was maybe a bit unfair to start a duel between the only briefly visible location cardsagainst the famous, expensive and memorable tracking shot. However, the location cards are much better in my opinion. They are wonderful. For example the location card for Talamone: Such a beautiful shot of Bond in the boat. Combine it with the location card and it is a "feast for my eyes".

    The tracking shot, on the other hand, is a bit unnecessary. No doubt, the last part of it (the walk over roofs) looks great and I'm happy that it was filmed this way. But why do we need to see Bond's back for a minute before? They painted hundreds (or even thousands?) of stunning faces and tailored the same amount of great dresses for all these people and we only see very little of them. I would prefer more shots of the celebrating people instead of Bond's back.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Gottfried John is the highlight of a splendid cast.
    He is incredible and the one true enjoyment I get from Goldeneye. His character and portrayal could fit in any of the Classic Bond films from the 60s, or any of the modern films.

    One helluva performance.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,582
    For which movie did you produce the most of such wonderful “props“? You could start an exhibition!
    On average, and only counting finished props here:

    Most props: CR (60)

    Special mentions: LTK (41); NTTD (40)

    Least props: TSWLM (3)
  • Posts: 631
    Nice to see the love for the location cards. When the poll was announced I did wonder if the location cards would get any votes at all.
  • Posts: 1,917
    For GE, the baddies by far. Someone mentioned a network of unique villains, which this is here, whereas so many of the other films are a villain and his main henchman. Although I find Trevelyan overrated, he's still a nice mental and physical match for Bond. Although they're more or less variations of previous villains - Onatopp is basically Fiona, May Day and Ouromuv is Orlov (even the name is similar) and Koskov, although as someone else says he makes it his own and is the most memorable of the baddies for me. Boris is annoying, but I appreciate him in that anybody who has ever had to deal with a real tech guy for their work has likely had the same experience with them being, well, tech guys who are just a little different. That moment with the pen makes for a nice, small bit of suspense.

    I know she's beloved, but the Dench M was always written to have to try harder and never hesitates to put Bond down, especially in GE. That never failed to annoy me and I was just never a fan of her version. Same with Samantha Bond's Moneypenny, no real flirtation, just an exchange of smutty lines. Zukovsky is overrated. Coltrane is a fun actor but the appeal isn't there, especially when he got turned into a joke in TWINE. Wade is pointless except for comic relief (why use an actor who previously played a main villain?) and I can't even recall Mishkin.

    For the second, tracking shot. I'm glad the series attempted this as a lot of the great directors have had memorable such shots, my favorite being Scorsese in Goodfellas. I could honestly just watch the PTS and turn off the rest of the film and be entirely satisfied with the experience.

    The location cards are a nice touch rather than the generic descriptions. It's one of those aspects I will pay more attention to on my next viewing of QoS.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,369
    A: Baddies
    B: Tracking shot from SP
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    Vote goes to the allies, mainly because of Xenia, and also because of Boris. Apart from them, Trevelyan and Ourumov would have destroyed their competition, for me. Although GE's Zukovsky is great as well.
    BT3366 wrote: »
    the Dench M was always written to have to try harder and never hesitates to put Bond down, especially in GE. That never failed to annoy me and I was just never a fan of her version.
    +1 I don't like Dench's M at all.

    Tracking shot
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    @marc : allies or baddies? It sounds like you prefer the baddies?
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    edited August 2020 Posts: 2,610
    I prefer the allies; sorry if that wasn't clear. Dench's M isn't as bad as Boris and, especially, Xenia, I'd say.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited August 2020 Posts: 4,483
    Results of round 49:
    The actors playing the baddies win easily against the allies: 10 : 3

    The tracking shot (SP) wins easily against the location cards (QoS): 11 : 3

    Let's see if the winners are less obvious this week...

    Round 50:

    A) Which often repeated Bond moment (sometimes smartly modified) do you prefer?
    Hat toss vs. Shaken, not stirred


    "Shaken, not stirred is more famous since it was used more often and it was also present in the newer films. But are all these moments great to watch or is it sometimes kind of "forced fan service" (?). YOu can also consider the (successful ?) modifications of the moments...
    You certainly know that Moore never used the "shaken line" himself while he was the last to toss a hat in Moneypenny's office:





    B) Small and atmospheric or big and authentic...Which Ken Adam set do you prefer? The Tarantula room (DN) vs. Fort Knox (GF)

    10f03cbd301a9ade95ea5d2b5754e2a7.jpg

    goldfinger.jpg



  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    ugh... I love both @goldenswissroyale ... I will take my meditative leave on this until I come up with an answer.

    Into the dessert I go for thirty days and thirty nights (in Matrix time), and will get back shortly...
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    peter wrote: »
    Into the dessert I go for thirty days and thirty nights
    Bon appetit! :--)

    (an 's' too much, I guess)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    lol!!-- @marc -- my fault, and thank you for a great reply!!!
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Shaken.
    Knox.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    I'll go for the hat toss. So 60's, I love it. Shaken, not stirred has become a bit pastiche ever since the late nineties.

    The second one is tougher, but ultimately Fort Knox takes the cake.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Definitely hat toss and tarantula room.
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