The First Time you watched LALD...How did you feel?

24

Comments

  • Posts: 7,430
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I wouldn’t have minded that in any era. Great little zinger to close the film with.

    Agreed, it's a great amusing way to finish. What I do miss about Bond films like this was the henchman returning for a final reel showdown!
    LALD has one of the best. TeeHee is a great character! (And SP missed a trick by not having that excellent scrap with Hinx for the finale!)
  • edited February 2020 Posts: 1,917
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I wouldn’t have minded that in any era. Great little zinger to close the film with.

    Agreed, it's a great amusing way to finish. What I do miss about Bond films like this was the henchman returning for a final reel showdown!
    LALD has one of the best. TeeHee is a great character! (And SP missed a trick by not having that excellent scrap with Hinx for the finale!)


    Not that I'd have wanted to drag that underwhelming finale out anymore, but that could've been a cool surprise to have Hinx leap out at Bond while he's searching the old Mi6 building.
  • edited February 2020 Posts: 17,756
    When I watched the Bond films the very first time, it was on VHS around the age of 8. Being able to watch the (then) 19 films in a very short span of time was an interesting experience, and for various reasons, some films stood out. I've never really been one for the occult in films, but as a kid this was an exciting element to a Bond film. I think it was Roger's performance that stood out the most for me though; by the time I watched the film he was already my favourite, and I found him a real joy to watch in LALD. It still is a joy to watch him in it, and IMO it's one of the best performances of an actor in the role.
  • Funny how the first image of Moore was not in the title song...I liked how Bond was not in the pre titles and it jumped from scene to scene telling a story in different settings.
  • BT3366 wrote: »
    Ruby writing in lipstick on "Sir Hillary's" thigh are a hell of a lot more effective than watching a stereotype stumble out of a wrecked police car and get frustrated.
    Sorry but you lost me there. Just seeing Clifton James grin and his facial expressions are enough to make my day. The lipstick on a thigh does nothing for me. It’s slightly amusing but that’s about it. I’m not necessarily one for really broad humor but some things are just funny and Clifton James had that in spades as Jay-Dubya! Different strokes for different folks I guess...

  • Posts: 631
    Watch OHMSS and then LALD and it’s hard to believe they are the same series of films.

    One film has:

    For thee the hammer on the anvil rings
    For thee the poet of beguilement sings

    And the other film has:

    By the powers invested in me by this parish I do hereby commandeer this vee-hee-kul and all those persons within. And that means you, smart***!

    Yet they are both great, in their different ways.
  • Posts: 1,860
    Lucky you, meeting Roger at the premiere! That's a great memory to have, @delfloria /
    I'll also add I loved the title song, and still do.

    It was quite an experience............ and I got Roger to sign a copy of the script for me at the same time, which I had gotten from make up artist Rick Baker a few weeks before.
  • Posts: 1,860
    Birdleson wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I agree with the comment above regarding my first viewing (I saw it at it's world premiere and met Moore in the lobby) but unlike IGotABrudder my opinion never changed.

    How old were you when you that happened, if you don't mind my asking? As an 11 year old, I think I was the perfect age to love LALD.

    I was in my early 20s.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited February 2020 Posts: 1,261
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I was 16, when I watched it first, on video. But not VHS_, but the today completely forgotten Video 2000 system. The frame and format of the film looked squeezed, but that was the same for all movies, probably had something to do with the whole Video 2000 system. Was the fourth Roger Mooire Bond (the others were OP and AVTAK at the cinema and MR on video). I found it funny and entertaining. The only minor issue I have with this, is the goofy and cartoonish death of Kananga. I don't know, whether a man can be inflated like a balloon and actually blow up like one. It looked just silly IMO. And, no, I don't want to see the guts of Kananga covering everything, it should be a movie for the whole family. And Kananga was not a ridicule OTT comic villain, they could have found another way for him to die (no pun intended). For me it's a bit like the air whistle in TMWTGG. But apart from that I still like it. And JW Pepper was fun. Yes, he was a racist redneck cop, but he also was the comic relief.

    Not to knock your opinion, but it brings up a point. Pepper is part of what made this era lose sight of what made the earlier films so special. You didn't need broad comic moments and characters to enjoy the early films. A Connery (or Lazenby) quip or situation such as Ruby writing in lipstick on "Sir Hillary's" thigh are a hell of a lot more effective than watching a stereotype stumble out of a wrecked police car and get frustrated.

    If Pepper was in one or two scenes it wouldn't be bad, not unlike Mrs. Bell, which still doesn't excuse her inclusion, but he becomes a bigger part and that distracts from the boat chase overall. In fairness, LALD just extends what Mankiewicz began with DAF.

    I see, what you are referring to, and I have to admit, you are right. The Connery movies up to YOLT did not need these characters, but still had humourous and funny moments, same with OHMSS. In DAF, as you said, you can spot the direction, Bond would take in the Roger Moore era - my "first time" Bond movie was OP.
  • Watch OHMSS and then LALD and it’s hard to believe they are the same series of films.

    One film has:

    For thee the hammer on the anvil rings
    For thee the poet of beguilement sings

    And the other film has:

    By the powers invested in me by this parish I do hereby commandeer this vee-hee-kul and all those persons within. And that means you, smart***!

    Yet they are both great, in their different ways.
    Very true!!! And I love the series all the more for it. Films for various moods, tastes, and preferences. When it’s snowing outside or after a nice ski trip I’ll probably gravitate more towards OHMSS and I’ll appreciate what it has to offer (minus J.W.)

    On a sunnier day I’ll be in the mood for LALD (plus J.W. and his shenanigans). It’s all good!!



  • All these awesome folks on here who had the pleasure of meeting Roger Moore specifically with an LALD reference at the time....I'm wondering if anyone ever asked the man himself for his interpretation of the unexplained ending with Baron Samedi on the train... I know many people say it's metaphorical but it would matter to hear it from Bond....LALD and AVTAK were each respectively the first Bond films that DC and Cary Fukunaka have watched. Sam Mendes also had an admiration for LALD.

  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited February 2020 Posts: 4,483
    I loved the crocodiles and the boat action the first time and this never changed. I never thought the boat scenes is too long, it is one of my favourite scenes of the franchise. Fantastic stunts, funny moments with Pepper (love him!) and many more (wedding, pool...) and a nice explosion.
    The first part is a bit slow sometimes and Rosie is annoying bit afterwords it is a fantastic ride.
  • edited February 2020 Posts: 654
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I think it’s just a matter of the times. I didn’t meet Roger, but those who also saw LALD in its in initial run, let me know if you agree. I don’t think it occurred to most of us to question whether the closing shot of Baron Samedi was supposed to be real or symbolic, it was part of the movie and that was enough. It seems very important to modern audiences that their illusion of fantasy not be shattered. In those days we were comfortable with the gulf between reality and fiction. That sounds more condescending than I meant it to, but I see that as a definite change in our culture.
    This is a very good point. Folks were more relaxed back in the day. They didn’t over-analyze every aspect of a Bond movie. The point of a Bond film was entertainment. Cubby said so himself. He never made any illusions that his films were anything more than that. His daughter would do well to adhere to that principle. She thinks she’s making high art! As a result you have all these people picking every scene apart with tweezers and going over it like it’s Shakespeare or something. I don’t need a philosophical conversation on what the latest Bond adventure represents.

    If one wants to interpret Baron Samedi at the end as this mythical character who cannot die then so be it. In fact when Samedi performs during that fire show in San Monique doesn’t the announcer introduce him as “the man who cannot die” or is my mind playing tricks on me? In any case you can take that for what it’s worth. Personally I see Samedi on the train at the end as a sort of cool tag to a film. Just like we have the opening credits here we get the closing credits with Samedi in it. When Samedi appears on the back of the train at the end notice how at that point the theme song kicks in, essentially signaling the end of the film. So basically the film is over and they just stuck Samedi in there because he’s such a cool character and that iconic laugh of his is such an awesome parting shot. That’s how I see it anyway, as opposed to thinking he’s still alive. A sort of breaking the 4th wall kind of thing. But ultimately it doesn’t matter. I don’t dwell on it. Either way it’s a cool final shot and I wouldn’t have it any other way!

    If you had something like this these days in a Bond film the internet would absolutely explode!!!! Of course it does help that LALD has that voodoo/mythical vibe to it, which certainly helps with scenes like these!!
  • I always thought it was a little wink to the audience. After Bond easily dispatches Samedi, you think the whole voodoo magic of the Island was a guise. Until the final shot of the film when it is revealed he lived! But it is definitely a tongue in cheek moment.
  • Posts: 631
    The fourth wall thing is important. It’s not simply a shot of the Baron on the front of a train, he is directly looking at the audience. and I think audiences at the time (perhaps less so now?) would easily have interpreted that shot as simply a final sign-off joke by the filmmakers, nothing to be taken seriously at all.

    It reminds me a bit of the 1970s trend for bloopers to be included in the closing credits of films. No one would do that today (not for a major action genre release anyway) because audiences have become more serious, I think.

    From time to time I have to remind myself that the individual Bond films were made in specific historic contexts. LALD was made in 1973. It was written for the 1973 audience and was meant to be the sort of film that 1973 audiences would enjoy and understand. It was intended to be seen in a 1973 cinema (that means through a haze of cigarette smoke probably) and it included tropes and shots that a 1973 audience would easily have ‘got’ but which, looking back nearly 50 years later, make us go ‘eh?’

    Baron Samedi on the train is an example. We think it’s a bit weird. It takes us out of the movie. But we are 2020, not 1973, and perhaps 1973 audiences actually enjoyed being taken out of a movie.

    On the other hand (I will undermine my own point here) I enjoy taking the shot seriously, more seriously than the filmmakers intended. Baron Samedi is the closest thing the Bond films have ever got to a truly supernatural character. They introduce him as a character who cannot be killed, and it turns out to be true! he cannot be killed! Even Bond cannot kill him. I like that.

    But that’s enough supernatural stuff for Bond, we don’t need any more.
  • The fourth wall thing is important. It’s not simply a shot of the Baron on the front of a train, he is directly looking at the audience. and I think audiences at the time (perhaps less so now?) would easily have interpreted that shot as simply a final sign-off joke by the filmmakers, nothing to be taken seriously at all.

    It reminds me a bit of the 1970s trend for bloopers to be included in the closing credits of films. No one would do that today (not for a major action genre release anyway) because audiences have become more serious, I think.

    From time to time I have to remind myself that the individual Bond films were made in specific historic contexts. LALD was made in 1973. It was written for the 1973 audience and was meant to be the sort of film that 1973 audiences would enjoy and understand. It was intended to be seen in a 1973 cinema (that means through a haze of cigarette smoke probably) and it included tropes and shots that a 1973 audience would easily have ‘got’ but which, looking back nearly 50 years later, make us go ‘eh?’

    Baron Samedi on the train is an example. We think it’s a bit weird. It takes us out of the movie. But we are 2020, not 1973, and perhaps 1973 audiences actually enjoyed being taken out of a movie.

    On the other hand (I will undermine my own point here) I enjoy taking the shot seriously, more seriously than the filmmakers intended. Baron Samedi is the closest thing the Bond films have ever got to a truly supernatural character. They introduce him as a character who cannot be killed, and it turns out to be true! he cannot be killed! Even Bond cannot kill him. I like that.

    But that’s enough supernatural stuff for Bond, we don’t need any more.
    Well said.
  • Posts: 1,860
    Samedi on the train just seemed like a wink to the audience when I saw it and was not intended to be serious.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    Actually, I have always been sort of bothered by the supernatural aspect since it interferes with my opinion that Bond only really works if the movie manages to suspend disbelief. That being said, LALD is the only Bond movie I saw three times at the cinema, in three different places (but all dubbed in German...well, that was 1974 - yes, ...FOUR).

    So, I could have done without that Tarot stuff and the "007" playing cards and Solitaire's ability to prophesise and her supposed reliance on remaining a virgin and stuff, as well as Baron Samedi sitting on the bumper of the train's engine at the end. I'd give it a pass for that, but I'm glad that no other Bond film played the supernatural angle. Not saying they were all credible (invisible cars and tsunami surfing, anyone?), but at least they didn't try to explain it by way of voodoo.

    Still, I always enjoyed LALD immensely...just maybe not for the same reasons I enjoyed those Bond films I consider superior (quite a few).
  • Posts: 1,860
    I still have a casting of Mr. Big's exploding head given to me by the makeup department. Goofy but still cherished.
  • Posts: 1,917
    delfloria wrote: »
    I still have a casting of Mr. Big's exploding head given to me by the makeup department. Goofy but still cherished.

    Any chance you'd share a photo with us?
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Actually, I have always been sort of bothered by the supernatural aspect since it interferes with my opinion that Bond only really works if the movie manages to suspend disbelief. That being said, LALD is the only Bond movie I saw three times at the cinema, in three different places (but all dubbed in German...well, that was 1974 - yes, ...FOUR).

    So, I could have done without that Tarot stuff and the "007" playing cards and Solitaire's ability to prophesise and her supposed reliance on remaining a virgin and stuff, as well as Baron Samedi sitting on the bumper of the train's engine at the end. I'd give it a pass for that, but I'm glad that no other Bond film played the supernatural angle. Not saying they were all credible (invisible cars and tsunami surfing, anyone?), but at least they didn't try to explain it by way of voodoo.

    Still, I always enjoyed LALD immensely...just maybe not for the same reasons I enjoyed those Bond films I consider superior (quite a few).

    Interesting take. I think the voodoo and tarot really add to the film and the marketing campaign really benefits from it.

    And to be fair, the novel also features voodoo, Solitaire does have her abilities in the book, although without the virginity angle, and Samedi has a presence, so it's not a bad thing to have as it really separates the film in that way from others in the series while still paying tribute to Fleming, which was fast becoming a rarity in the series.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,133
    LALD was my first Bond film so I hold it in very high regard plus its a great film, my parents were huge Spy literature and movie fans so I was blessed being introduced to so much greatness from a early age, I was named after Bond and another famous character played by Sir Roger, even before I knew it I was destined to be a Bond fan.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    I didn't care for it much, and would put it middle or lower of my rankings of the films. It doesn't feel very Bondian to me. I understand some of this was done to distance Moore from Connery's Bond.

    The film doesn't age well in my opinion. I didn't like how Bond tricked Solitaire into bed. He also plays on Rosie Carver's fear and takes her to bed. In light of the metoo movement it plays even worse now.

    The plot itself is rather uninspired. Kananga is going to be a heroin mogul? I don't think that really holds up.

    Some things I like are M crashing Bond's flat. I enjoy the delectable Miss Jane Seymour. She is in my top 5 for leading ladies.

    Sorry to not contribute to the love in.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I haven't quite made up my mind on how Moore plays Bond in LALD, whether he is playing himself as Bond, as himself on holiday, as Bond on holiday, as Hamilton directs him, etc. But his performance here and in TMWTGG is certainly different and more unique than his performances later on. And I think the films are better for it. For starters, I wish they stuck with the cigars - that was a distinguishing touch in his LALD that stood out. In the later films he gives a more generic performance, for better or worse.

    I never liked Hamilton's approach but it does give his films and LALD a distinct feel, and I love his villains, particularly in LALD, so while I don't love this film, its a good contrast to the others
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited February 2020 Posts: 25,133
    I think Sir Roger is more brutal and convincing physically in his first two films the comedic elements at times undermined his Bond in later films, I have just finished watching LALD the end scene in the train Bond really goes at Tee Hee, Sir Roger at 45 was convincing and looked nothing like his age in this film.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I was 16, when I watched it first, on video. But not VHS_, but the today completely forgotten Video 2000 system. The frame and format of the film looked squeezed, but that was the same for all movies, probably had something to do with the whole Video 2000 system. Was the fourth Roger Mooire Bond (the others were OP and AVTAK at the cinema and MR on video). I found it funny and entertaining. The only minor issue I have with this, is the goofy and cartoonish death of Kananga. I don't know, whether a man can be inflated like a balloon and actually blow up like one. It looked just silly IMO. And, no, I don't want to see the guts of Kananga covering everything, it should be a movie for the whole family. And Kananga was not a ridicule OTT comic villain, they could have found another way for him to die (no pun intended). For me it's a bit like the air whistle in TMWTGG. But apart from that I still like it. And JW Pepper was fun. Yes, he was a racist redneck cop, but he also was the comic relief.

    Not to knock your opinion, but it brings up a point. Pepper is part of what made this era lose sight of what made the earlier films so special. You didn't need broad comic moments and characters to enjoy the early films. A Connery (or Lazenby) quip or situation such as Ruby writing in lipstick on "Sir Hillary's" thigh are a hell of a lot more effective than watching a stereotype stumble out of a wrecked police car and get frustrated.

    If Pepper was in one or two scenes it wouldn't be bad, not unlike Mrs. Bell, which still doesn't excuse her inclusion, but he becomes a bigger part and that distracts from the boat chase overall. In fairness, LALD just extends what Mankiewicz began with DAF.

    I see, what you are referring to, and I have to admit, you are right. The Connery movies up to YOLT did not need these characters, but still had humourous and funny moments, same with OHMSS. In DAF, as you said, you can spot the direction, Bond would take in the Roger Moore era - my "first time" Bond movie was OP.

    Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the Roger Moore films and growing up he was my favourite Bond. However, I agree with the aforementioned comments regarding the humour. The films I would consider the best in the series - DN, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS - have more subtle and dry humour, whereas the films following were written more tongue-in-cheek and almost winked at the audience to laugh along. That being said there were moments in those films that extremely Fleming and more in line with those earlier films.
  • Posts: 1,917
    thedove wrote: »
    I didn't care for it much, and would put it middle or lower of my rankings of the films. It doesn't feel very Bondian to me. I understand some of this was done to distance Moore from Connery's Bond.

    The film doesn't age well in my opinion. I didn't like how Bond tricked Solitaire into bed. He also plays on Rosie Carver's fear and takes her to bed. In light of the metoo movement it plays even worse now.

    The plot itself is rather uninspired. Kananga is going to be a heroin mogul? I don't think that really holds up.

    Some things I like are M crashing Bond's flat. I enjoy the delectable Miss Jane Seymour. She is in my top 5 for leading ladies.

    Sorry to not contribute to the love in.

    I appreciate the candor as I also rank LALD about where you do.

    Funny how LTK constantly gets dinged for being about a drug dealer and few if any criticisms of LALD say the same for Kananga and his scheme. Richard Maibaum said he'd have liked a crack at it, calling Mankiewicz's plot "cooking drugs in the jungle" or something along those lines.

    Another criticism in the past mentioned it's one long chase movie. It's like the film is constructed around set pieces of Bond being pursued in one mode of transportation or another for most of the film. This is where the atmosphere and imagery really benefit it.
  • Posts: 1,917
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I’ve never heard LTK dinged for being about a drug dealer. Certainly not constantly.

    Really? I've heard that criticism since when it was released with people complaining a drug dealer shouldn't be worthy of James Bond's attention, followed by the Miami Vice comparisons. I think people were disappointed that it was closer to real life and not a madman with some odd physical characteristic.

    I think now more people have reevaluated the character and Davi's portrayal and it's gained more appreciation.
  • edited February 2020 Posts: 1,282
    LTK wasn't a bad movie, it just was up against lots of competitors in the market, namely Batman and Honey I Shrunk the Kids.


    The hatred had little to do with the realism/dark/gritty aspect contrary to popular belief. Yes, the quality of filming was television-like but that's because ever since the studio had overspent on marketing Moonraker and producing it, the budget was increasingly narrowing over the next decade with subsequent films. That's what allowed John Glenn to bring in his grounded grit as a contrast for the series to be able to move forward so that they wouldn't make the budgetary mistake of making a poor-set sci fi movie. Besides, the sci fi Bond films like MR and DAD are not liked period. Neal Pervis apologized to me personally for the way DAD turned out.


    This isn't the first time such a traumatic event occurred to tarnish the reputation of one film whereby the misconception of its realism is the factor people rush to judge: QoS was not overmarketed like SF was. Yes, the writer's strike did not help and there were not enough dramatic scenes to balance all the action.

    But mix the overmarketing of SF with a distraction in DC's own style by having brought in more gadget reliance and all these Bondisms like the Aston Martin from Goldfinger as opposed to the one from CR, which is a bit disrespectful and you get.....a non original Bond film.

    LALD had its sense of originality despite its flaws and the way in how women leads were depicted among a couple of other issues like Kanaga's balloon fate.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    Tell me when we've seen a creepier Bond. Moore is likeable so we let him off I guess. But stacking the deck so he can sleep with Solitaire? Yikes I don't recall another Bond tricking a woman into bed like his Bond does. Then earlier in the film he preys on Carver's fear of the occult. Again I don't remember Bond before or since doing these methods.

    The closest I can recall is when Bond pretends to be Domino's masseur in NSNA and then it's played for a bit of a lark.

    Creeps me out a bit to see the lengths he takes to bed the women of this film. A shame too because I like Seymour and her portrayal. I end up feeling my sympathy for her cause she's just a pawn that Kanaga and Bond seem to have no trouble manipulating or using for their own means. Even the whole "Did you mess with that!" When do we call a woman "that". She's referred to as property.

    This alone docks the movie several points with me.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited February 2020 Posts: 7,314
    Bond was suspicious of Carver from the beginning. He knew she wasn't innocent. As far as the Solutaire situation goes, if we are to believe that she had "the power" like the film wants us to, then she had already predicted that they would be lovers earlier in the film. Bond merely accelerated the process.

    You can't really defend it from a moral standpoint, but Bond isn't supposed to be pure. It's really not any worse than Connery's Bond forcing himself onto some of those women from the 60's films now is it?
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