NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2021 Posts: 12,480
    I just realized one reason why I like twitter so much.
    It has a mute button. And block; but I just mute - then I never see that person's comments again. So civil and peaceful. (Not meant to be interpreted as directed at the comment above mine. I was just perusing tons of comments in general and had that thought.)
  • Posts: 526
    jake24 wrote: »
    I came back from my second IMAX viewing of the film.

    Simply put, it’s an instant classic. The film is filled to the brim with memorable moments that stand out both in the film and the franchise as a whole. Daniel Craig gives his best Bond performance that easily matches Connery at his best. I needed to let this one sink in as watching Bond die left me in a very strange mood the first time around, but the story is fantastic and the film could very well be a top 5 for me. And the ending, as truly shocking as it is, is executed brilliantly.

    Glad you enjoyed it! For me, it’s just too heavy of an emotional ride. Seems like people mostly really like or dislike NTTD; with some in the middle.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 425
    I don’t read him as broken in SF, SP, or NTTD. In SF he feels betrayed and others doubt his capabilities, but he himself never feels remotely broken.

    I sort of understand what you’re getting at, but the only real culprit in terms of “rebreaking” him is QoS in my opinion.

    The finale of CR is meant to simply show that this was how the Bond we know was fully formed.

    Maybe that wasn't quite the right way to describe it but
    CR having only just been "introduced" / "rebooted" he resigns from the service during the movie
    QOS he goes rogue
    SF he goes AWOL
    SP he resigns again
    NTTD he dies

    You don't feel that's a bit too much "emotional content" for James Bond?
    The Craig version of Bond couldn't get through a single movie without coming off the rails in some way
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2021 Posts: 12,480
    Ok, and I am just now home after viewing NTTD for a third time.
    I definitely love this Bond movie. Nothing was diminished for me (except the wrenching physical reaction I had with deep sadness from my first viewing). More gained this time, as I was able to catch some more things and just absorb the film into my mind, heart, and DNA. It's such a great Bond film. Not just because it's emotional and moving; though the acting throughout is wonderful, especially superb by Craig. But as a Bond film, it gives me exciting action, beautiful locales stunningly filmed, Felix (I always loved Jeffrey in this role) and was brilliantly directed and edited. So good, in every category. I enjoyed it today immensely. I'm so glad I decided to see it several times on the big screen; it is a much more all encompassing experience than on a DVD at home. Thrilling, moving, and quite fun in parts. A balanced Bond film and a terrific send-off for Daniel Craig.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2021 Posts: 7,553
    CR the novel he quits espionage.
    OHMSS he quits, falls in love and gets married, and cries.
    LTK he quits.
    YOLT novel he’s depressed, nearly gets fired by M, he has a child.
    LALD novel he cries.
    “QoS he goes rogue”: Bond goes rogue or defies orders in some way in nearly every single Bond story there is.
    So I’m not sure what your point is. Bond has always been an emotional character. To think that “being hindered by emotion and self doubt” are “too feminine” to be characteristics of Bond… categorically wrong and borderline offensive. I know those weren’t your comments, but it makes me fairly frustrated to hear those types of things.
  • Posts: 526
    jake24 wrote: »
    I that when Bond is walking up to the top of the compound (blood dripping), as the missiles approach (his end); that this scene mirrors his beginning, when he is walking up the stairs at Mr. White’s house to give that famous line. Thoughts?
    Good spot. It really is so brilliantly handled. A truly heartbreaking moment that hit me specifically when he stares across the ocean with Mathilde’s Dou Dou strapped to his side.

    Thanks. I just thought about that today. It zooms in on his legs and shoes just like in CR. Yes, that scene is literally heartbreaking. I had a friend that took in the late show, massive Bond fan, and he said it was an emotional rollercoaster that has drained him to the bone. But also said that it is a top 5 Bond for him. He has a room full of Bond memorabilia dating back to Dr. No. I was curious as to what his take would be. I said I can’t believe you’re not on the MI6 Board-it’s the place to be if you’re a Bond fan!
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 735
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I already feel the ending of this film is extremely iconic :)

    Yes ... and I think that Zimmer's Final Ascent instrumental will go down as among the most hauntingly beautiful music in the entire series.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2021 Posts: 12,480
    I have been reading Bond novels in the movie theater before it starts. I get there early; today about 40 minutes early. We have reserved seats. I've read several short stories and today am re-reading Live And Let Die. Bond does have internal struggle, strong emotions, inner conflict about killing and is not a one dimensional cardboard cartoon Man Of Action only. And boy Fleming could write great description of places and atmosphere.

    Do I think Craig's Bond is too emotional, veered too much in that direction? No, I do not. Never felt that. I'm really glad we got a realistic, fully fleshed out, vital, gritty, conflicted, and at times vulnerable Bond. I love Fleming; I love Craig's Bond. I would change some things about his two of his films, but Casino Royale, Skyfall, and No Time To Die - those I value as is. Most especially CR and NTTD; nearly flawless films and I wouldn't want any other actor in them (from the ones we have had at least).
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Excellent to hear that, @jake24 B-)
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2021 Posts: 7,553
    I have been reading Bond novels in the movie theater before it starts. I get there early; today about 40 minutes early. We have reserved seats. I've read several short stories and today am re-reading Live And Let Die. Bond does have internal struggle, strong emotions, inner conflict about killing and is not a one dimensional cardboard cartoon Man Of Action only. And boy Fleming could write great description of places and atmosphere.

    100% agree. My favourite thing about the TMWTGG novel as well is how it deals with Bond’s difficulty with killing in cold blood. Getting inside Bond’s mind is really why the novels can’t be missed IMO. His short stories are brilliant as well. I’ll have to revisit LALD soon; I’m planning on reading them all again before Horowitz’ next one (post-TMWTGG) in April.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    So I saw it tonight. I really enjoyed the film, the story and the acting, the references to previous movies. During the ending I was a bit emotional, I enjoyed the whole surprise with Mathilde and Swann being Bond's new Tracy. The whole OHMSS vibe and score was well done, and when the end credits started I suddenly felt angry and left the theater before they ended, didn't see if there was a Bond will return message, but now I read that there was. How dare they mess-up with Bond, right? Hard to fathom how the story could continue.

    I was listening to various people's reaction. Things like "... so that's how they want to force us to accept this black girl as the new star, by killing Bonf off" and "No choice now they have to reboot again otherwise I'm done with the series without Bond". All that got me thinking. Seriously, would the producers really consider moving away from James Bond's character and continue the series without him? Are they this Woke? That's more than a small risk, it's flirting with disaster. Not that it couldn't work mind you, but seriously, I'm having a hard time seeing this as a real possibility.

    So my money would be on a reboot, doesn't have to be an origin story like CR though. Anyhow, Had not gone to the theater since I took my kid to Frozen 2! I'm going again to Dune in a few weeks. I bet I won't be as shocked with this one as with NTTD! I've become quite a Dune fan since first posting in KTBEU, but anyhow, it was nice to go to the theater even if on the frikkin first Saturday of a Bond release there were at most 40 people in there. I could hear positive reactions throughout the flick, but after the ending, all I was hearing were negative reactions. If we're heading towards a reboot though, was the killing of Bond really necessary? Certainly has a different taste than having the lovely family end happy and leave in the sunset.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    It was the story they wanted to tell. We have 24 examples of Bond not dying at the end, why not one where he does. The next Bond film, if and when it happens, will just be another James Bond story like they all are.
    The DC films were their own entity, and I imagine they’ll go back to more episodic films in the future of the franchise.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2021 Posts: 12,480
    Good heavens, where to start, Luds. Okay, just a few things.
    Nomi is not returning. I don't believe any MI6 characters are returning, and I don't think they should. Barbara already said it will be a reboot. By the way, "woke" is insulting in my opinion. All the bruhaha about it before the film seemed empty when I saw this movie; which others have also said. Nomi is fine, nothing to get concerned about. She is NOT replacing Craig's Bond and will not be the new Bond.

    This ending was Craig's Bond'sending. His is the only complete Bond story we have. And we don't need another. Next film will be different. We have had how many actors as Bond now? So "your Bond" and "my Bond" and Fleming's from the novels have all had different characterizations for all these years. The films will continue, no worries. No need to tie in Craig's Bond's story. Will the next one have any reference to Craig's Bond at all? I don't know, but if so I would think it would be very slight indeed. Nothing should tie his into the next new era. I appreciate NTTD and I'm quite happy will be getting a new, different kind of Bond next. Whoever that is. I do hope he will be a good actor, but no need to take the exact same tone of Daniel's Bond. So I think it sounds like you are very very concerned, and I don't think you need to be.

    I do think having Bond die fit this particular Bond, yes. I wouldn't change NTTD's ending. It was fitting and I thought very well done.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    Good heavens, where to start, Luds. Okay, just a few things.
    Nomi is not returning. I don't believe any MI6 characters are returning, and I don't think they should. Barbara already said it will be a reboot. By the way, "woke" is insulting in my opinion. All the bruhaha about it before the film seemed empty when I saw this movie; which others have also said. Nomi is fine, nothing to get concerned about. She is NOT replacing Craig's Bond and will not be the new Bond.

    This ending was Craig's Bond ending. His is the only complete Bond story we have. And we don't need another. Next film will be different. We have had how many actors as Bond now? So "your Bond" and "my Bond" and Fleming's from the novels have all had different characterizations for all these years. The films will continue, no worries. No need to tie in Craig's Bond's story. Will the next one have any reference to Craig's Bond at all? I don't know, but if so I would think it would be very slight indeed. Nothing should tie his into the next new era. I appreciate NTTD and I'm quite happy will be getting a new, different kind of Bond next. Whoever that is. I do hope he will be a good actor, but no need to take the exact same tone of Daniel's Bond. So I think it sounds like you are very very concerned, and I don't think you need to be.

    I do think having Bond die fit this particular Bond, yes. I wouldn't change NTTD's ending. It was fitting and I thought very well done.

    Well said.
  • Posts: 526
    Seve wrote: »
    I don’t read him as broken in SF, SP, or NTTD. In SF he feels betrayed and others doubt his capabilities, but he himself never feels remotely broken.

    I sort of understand what you’re getting at, but the only real culprit in terms of “rebreaking” him is QoS in my opinion.

    The finale of CR is meant to simply show that this was how the Bond we know was fully formed.

    Maybe that wasn't quite the right way to describe it but
    CR having only just been "introduced" / "rebooted" he resigns from the service during the movie
    QOS he goes rogue
    SF he goes AWOL
    SP he resigns again
    NTTD he dies

    You don't feel that's a bit too much "emotional content" for James Bond?
    The Craig version of Bond couldn't get through a single movie without coming off the rails in some way

    I feel that if we come away with one thing from Craig’s Bond it’s that he’s human. Just like the rest of us. No other Bond does that.
  • Posts: 3,276
    The DC films were their own entity
    But as the 007 Magazine puts it - they
    "have effectively consisted of a series of standalone films upon which continuity has been uncomfortably foisted and shoehorned in as the films have gone along, rather than existing as part of a coherent and pre-prepared grand design."
    http://www.007magazine.co.uk/bond25/no_time_to_die_review.htm
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    And there’s nothing more human than facing your own death. I liked that Craig Bond takes one last view before getting blown up. If he’s gonna die he’ll do it standing proud, knowing Madeleine and Mathilde get to live on.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2021 Posts: 7,553
    As M would say, “I’m not saying it’s all gone perfectly.”
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 207
    Had a good experience at the theater so maybe that's giving me slightly rose-tinted glasses? Guess I'll find out once I can watch at home and with all of the other films.

    A few thoughts after the first viewing

    - While I still don't totally like the choice for him to die, it's not done in a horrible way. I didn't react emotionally or anything, perhaps because I knew it was coming? Quite a few tears around me, but I didn't hear anyone yell in anger or anything about it like I was expecting.
    - I enjoyed the OHMSS callbacks. Lots of people at my screening didn't pick up on them, especially the younger fans.
    - The return of my favorite car in the series! I knew it was coming from the trailers and promos but I still got a huge smile on my face when he whipped the cover off and was driving it to MI6 with the Bond theme playing.
    - One of my favorite PTS in the series.
    - Craig gives a top-notch performance. He is absolutely incredible in the PTS, and still great in the rest of the film besides a few small nit picks here and there. I thought he handled the humor parts a lot better here than in SP. I do wish that they had kept the "History isn't kind to men who play God" line the same as the trailer though.
    - Léa Seydoux was a lot better in this one.
    - Didn't mind the daughter angle but I thought some of the dialogue could have been made a little less cheesy.
    - Ana de Armas. Even with little screen time, easily one of my favorite Bond girls ever. Great performance.
    - I actually liked Safin. He's not in the pantheon of great Bond villain's, but I had read from some that he was bottom tier and I just don't see it. He's solid.
  • Posts: 526
    And there’s nothing more human than facing your own death. I liked that Craig Bond takes one last view before getting blown up. If he’s gonna die he’ll do it standing proud, knowing Madeleine and Mathilde get to live on.

    I guess that’s true, yes. How did M put it in Skyfall? “An exemplar of British fortitude.” I guess we know how she would have written his obituary. I can’t believe I’m typing this.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    bondywondy wrote: »

    Update - I wrote this late at night so a few typos might be in text. Please ignore any typos.

    I'll do you one better! :))
  • Posts: 526
    bondywondy wrote: »

    Update - I wrote this late at night so a few typos might be in text. Please ignore any typos.

    I'll do you one better! :))

    I’ll be honest, I fell out of my chair laughing.
  • The last message was...James Bond will return....not Nomi will return....
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I think my entire Japanese audience waited to see those words.
    (Another amazingly gorgeous huge cinema screen experience today; my 3rd viewing of NTTD)
  • EinoRistoSiniahoEinoRistoSiniaho Oulu, Finland
    Posts: 73
    bondywondy wrote: »
    If MI6 don't mind this post as it's a tiny bit off topic. If anyone from Eon Productions look at this thread and post (lol) well, you never know.

    I think there is incredible potential in Bond surviving NTTD. I've come up with the precredit scene for Bond 26!
    But he didn't survive. Just let it go, let it go...
    EON has already confirmed the reboot.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Stop feeding the troll.
  • Posts: 7,507
    mtm wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Looking back after a few days after both viewings, I'm thinking about what I would look forward to seeing again (with SP, there was nothing, so I knew I would never warm to it). The one section that consistently pops into my mind is Bond's adventure with Paloma. The highlight of the film. Also, the stuff with Felix.

    Funnily enough I thought the Cuba bit didn't quite live up to what it should have been: it was just a bit of a fight, really, whereas for me it needed to be something a bit crazier and sparkier- more of a fun time. Like most of the action scenes it was a bit uninspired and with very little in the way of 'Bond moments'. In a way I can't help but compare it to something like the opera bit from Mission Impossible Rogue Nation, where it was essentially Ethan and Ilsa's 'first date' and worked in the same way in that film as a relatively light hearted action set piece with a male and female lead getting to know each other, and I thought that was much more successful in terms of spark and humour -and invention in the action- than this was.
    I also think that Cuba didn't serve Nomi well at all considering that she had just been set up as an adversary to Bond- she's barely in it. I can imagine a version where it's more playful between the two of them and they get to have a bit of interplay. I feel like we didn't even really get a reaction from Nomi from having lost there: I can imagine her giving Bond a smile and a salute or something as he makes off which would make her feel more on his level.

    Can't agree with that. The scene where he falls through the roof onto the bar table, jumps up like a indestructable badass and continues to poor a drink for Paloma and himself is a great and very bondian moment for me. I love Dan's acting during that scene. He is as suave and cool as Connery ever was.
  • Posts: 2,402
    bondywondy wrote: »

    Update - I wrote this late at night so a few typos might be in text. Please ignore any typos.

    I'll do you one better! :))

    :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
  • Posts: 2,402
    jobo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Looking back after a few days after both viewings, I'm thinking about what I would look forward to seeing again (with SP, there was nothing, so I knew I would never warm to it). The one section that consistently pops into my mind is Bond's adventure with Paloma. The highlight of the film. Also, the stuff with Felix.

    Funnily enough I thought the Cuba bit didn't quite live up to what it should have been: it was just a bit of a fight, really, whereas for me it needed to be something a bit crazier and sparkier- more of a fun time. Like most of the action scenes it was a bit uninspired and with very little in the way of 'Bond moments'. In a way I can't help but compare it to something like the opera bit from Mission Impossible Rogue Nation, where it was essentially Ethan and Ilsa's 'first date' and worked in the same way in that film as a relatively light hearted action set piece with a male and female lead getting to know each other, and I thought that was much more successful in terms of spark and humour -and invention in the action- than this was.
    I also think that Cuba didn't serve Nomi well at all considering that she had just been set up as an adversary to Bond- she's barely in it. I can imagine a version where it's more playful between the two of them and they get to have a bit of interplay. I feel like we didn't even really get a reaction from Nomi from having lost there: I can imagine her giving Bond a smile and a salute or something as he makes off which would make her feel more on his level.

    Can't agree with that. The scene where he falls through the roof onto the bar table, jumps up like a indestructable badass and continues to poor a drink for Paloma and himself is a great and very bondian moment for me. I love Dan's acting during that scene. He is as suave and cool as Connery ever was.

    It's honestly a masterstroke in itself that that scene - which on paper is like something you'd expect from a lesser Moore film or DAF - doesn't come across as camp but merely a moment of badassery from Bond and Paloma.
  • Posts: 7,507
    jobo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Looking back after a few days after both viewings, I'm thinking about what I would look forward to seeing again (with SP, there was nothing, so I knew I would never warm to it). The one section that consistently pops into my mind is Bond's adventure with Paloma. The highlight of the film. Also, the stuff with Felix.

    Funnily enough I thought the Cuba bit didn't quite live up to what it should have been: it was just a bit of a fight, really, whereas for me it needed to be something a bit crazier and sparkier- more of a fun time. Like most of the action scenes it was a bit uninspired and with very little in the way of 'Bond moments'. In a way I can't help but compare it to something like the opera bit from Mission Impossible Rogue Nation, where it was essentially Ethan and Ilsa's 'first date' and worked in the same way in that film as a relatively light hearted action set piece with a male and female lead getting to know each other, and I thought that was much more successful in terms of spark and humour -and invention in the action- than this was.
    I also think that Cuba didn't serve Nomi well at all considering that she had just been set up as an adversary to Bond- she's barely in it. I can imagine a version where it's more playful between the two of them and they get to have a bit of interplay. I feel like we didn't even really get a reaction from Nomi from having lost there: I can imagine her giving Bond a smile and a salute or something as he makes off which would make her feel more on his level.

    Can't agree with that. The scene where he falls through the roof onto the bar table, jumps up like a indestructable badass and continues to poor a drink for Paloma and himself is a great and very bondian moment for me. I love Dan's acting during that scene. He is as suave and cool as Connery ever was.

    It's honestly a masterstroke in itself that that scene - which on paper is like something you'd expect from a lesser Moore film or DAF - doesn't come across as camp but merely a moment of badassery from Bond and Paloma.

    Yes, looking at my description of the scene as written, it sounds very campy, but it really works perfectly on screen.
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