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NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    chrisisall wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    It’s official...No Time To Die is a remake of The Rock! 😆


    Now I wanna watch The Rock big time!!

    That's the dpirit! Any film similar to NTTD must be worth watching!
  • ColonelAdamskiColonelAdamski UK
    Posts: 1,078
    ImpertinentGoon wrote: »
    I actually thought the same thing as @JamesStock on my two viewings. Why doesn't he call him Franz or Oberhauser?

    I thought that when he said "you're a hard man to kill Blofeld" in Spectre.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    edited December 2021 Posts: 735
    @ImpertinentGoon wrote:
    "I actually thought the same thing as @JamesStock on my two viewings. Why doesn't he call him Franz or Oberhauser?"

    Perhaps I've missed something, but I've viewed this as Bond's own disregard for any personal significance to the "familial" back story. It's Blofeld who's obsessed with Bond and not vice versa, no? He couldn't care less and is happy to put as much distance between them as possible, hence "Blofeld."
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    ColonelAdamski wrote: »
    ImpertinentGoon wrote: »
    I actually thought the same thing as @JamesStock on my two viewings. Why doesn't he call him Franz or Oberhauser?

    I thought that when he said "you're a hard man to kill Blofeld" in Spectre.

    I think they just really wanted him to be Blofeld. It’s easy to see why the didn’t use the name Oberhauser after the reveal in Spectre, IMO.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    I keep forgetting this film is 20 minutes longer than CR and SF. The pace is great and among the blockbusters longer than 150 minutes NTTD is the one that feels the shortest to me.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Michelle_Johnston_55 wrote: »
    On the question of how Daniels tenure is affected by NTTD I feel the sameway as Daniel. He knew he had more to say and Spectre had not got it quite right but he leaves satisfied as I do.

    Daniel has said working on these movies is a bit like an art house film with a huge budget and for much of the film, the intimate scenes in the pre titles, the second act and the final act it has that feel. In that sense it bookends CR because I remember all those years ago thinking my god we actually have real dialogue and real people coming off the screen which was something Majesties did all most by accident because George was warn down to produce those vulnerable moments.

    Whatever type of Bond Movie you like and I appreciate this film like Skyfall will go down better in general with the wider audience than deep fans who will be more divided the challenge is the third act.

    So many Bond films start well with strong motivation TWINE, LTK and then end badly with weird characters and a wip back to the formula but on its own merits once Bond reaches Norway to the end its focused and driven with Safin being the uncomfortable inexplicable enigma.

    I am glad he made the fifth instalment and finished his arc perfectly. Talking of his arc I think looking back Skyfall was the most important film because we avoided any routine mission films and the only place to go was where we went.

    We know the flaws of Quantum and Spectre and CR is to my mind flawless but for the wire on the chair in the pre titles but film for me is a journey of suspension not an analysis frame by frame micro joy or uneasiness can come later.

    My only regret with NTTD is Matera, understandably it could not be longer but I hope we get a directors cut where we linger longer on the Paradise Element when the constraints of first hit are not there.

    The one actor or performance I am not crazy about is the scientist.

    Skimming through this thread quickly, but I think I agree with all your main points here. My opinion of NTTD remains high and I am so satisfied with this one as Daniel's final film. It is so fitting, and they managed to give us a great Bond movie throughout; with the ending sequence being the difficult and divisive part. I don't fault the ending, either. Just saying it is a consistently excellent Bond movie for many reasons, but I understand the ending will remain divisive. I'm quite happy and I think NTTD helps solidify all of Daniel's films. I really would have been unsatisfied if his tenure ended with Spectre.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Feyador wrote: »
    @ImpertinentGoon wrote:
    "I actually thought the same thing as @JamesStock on my two viewings. Why doesn't he call him Franz or Oberhauser?"

    Perhaps I've missed something, but I've viewed this as Bond's own disregard for any personal significance to the "familial" back story. It's Blofeld who's obsessed with Bond and not vice versa, no? He couldn't care less and is happy to put as much distance between them as possible, hence "Blofeld."

    That is also a good point I hadn't considered, yet and it works in tandem with him disconnecting his childhood memories from everything that happened since he turned 00. He loved Hannes Oberhauser (and possibly even had affection for Franz), so he doesn't want to connect those positive memories to this monster.

    I think the thing this all harkens back to is that the Blofeld reveal in SP is just so underwhelming and unprepared. If we had heard the name Blofeld here and there throughout the film or even better throughout the previous films, then it still wouldn't have been a surprise that Waltz was playing Blofeld, but it could have had more significance for Bond and Madeleine - maybe even have Blofeld be to Madeleine what Safin turned out to be: That shadowy figure that destroyed her childhood. And then it would also make sense for them to continue to call him Blofeld: If Bond had searched for Blofeld for some time - Operation Bedlam, basically - then there is something he can now pin this man's identity on. The way it is in SP, he basically just pulls a name out of a hat and everyone just decides to go along with it.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    If Franz really wanted to be known as Blofeld, then that would have been more of a reason to keep calling him Franz - especially in Spectre.

    It would get under his skin.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Bond just doesn't seem to care about this stuff.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Cuckoo! :)
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    ImpertinentGoon wrote: »
    He loved Hannes Oberhauser...so he doesn't want to connect those positive memories to this monster.
    This is the best and most plausible explanation, I think.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    edited December 2021 Posts: 735
    I get the objective criticisms of the Blofeld reveal in SP; but it largely worked for me, at least at the emotional level, if only because I've invested so much in the involvement of SPECTRE from my childhood days. I especially loved the dark gravitas of the group meeting in Rome and, perhaps, for that reason feel just a little betrayed by the abruptness, levity & tonal inconsistency in which the entirety of SPECTRE is dispatched in NTTD.

    I even ask myself if NTTD might have benefitted from a Safin-like character in a lesser role (and not as the "super-super villain")--perhaps as a SPECTRE assassin or even replacing the character of Primo. I say this partly because the only Safin scene that truly worked for me was at the house in Norway in the PTS. But also because I'd have preferred the return of the Blofeld & SPECTRE narrative. I just don't see that the introduction of Safin (whose plot & motivations make little sense to me) as adding anything interesting to the film, though I get that the marketing of Malek as the villain of the new piece was perhaps crucial for purely commercial reasons.
  • StamperStamper
    Posts: 387
    I think they should have gone with the idea that Blofeld transferred is mind into Safin via neuralink.
    That would have been awesome.
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    Feyador wrote: »
    I get the objective criticisms of the Blofeld reveal in SP; but it largely worked for me, at least at the emotional level, if only because I've invested so much in the involvement of SPECTRE from my childhood days. I especially loved the dark gravitas of the group meeting in Rome and, perhaps, for that reason feel just a little betrayed by the abruptness, levity & tonal inconsistency in which the entirety of SPECTRE is dispatched in NTTD.

    I even ask myself if NTTD might have benefitted from a Safin-like character in a lesser role (and not as the "super-super villain")--perhaps as a SPECTRE assassin or even replacing the character of Primo. I say this partly because the only Safin scene that truly worked for me was at the house in Norway in the PTS. But also because I'd have preferred the return of the Blofeld & SPECTRE narrative. I just don't see that the introduction of Safin (whose plot & motivations make little sense to me) as adding anything interesting to the film, though I get that the marketing of Malek as the villain of the new piece was perhaps crucial for purely commercial reasons.

    Completely agree about Rami Malek being cast purely for marketing kudos. He was the hot ticket after his Freddie Mercury Oscar and what a scoop to have him etc etc.
    Now don't get me wrong I like Malek, I enjoy his schtick and with a better developed role his Bond villian could (and should) have been brilliant. BUT In a different Bond film!
    That's the crux of it for me, in a stand alone film or at least one that didn't also feel the need to tie Spectre in Satin would have work well. In the NTTD story we got I think it would have worked so much better to not have him at all. Instead have Blofeld do all the things Safin did. I'm not entirely sure how best to bring Blofeld back in at the beginning but heck, In the absence of a better idea, a good old fashioned prison break with a " we have people everywhere" inside job would have worked.
    My point is this would have elevated Blofeld's threat, given Waltz a proper stab at a solid portrayal and saved Malek for Bond 26 in a film that required less of a juggling act.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    NTTD had so many returning characters from SP and CR--unprecedented, really--that they probably needed a new villain as a marketing hook.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    matt_u wrote: »
    I keep forgetting this film is 20 minutes longer than CR and SF. The pace is great and among the blockbusters longer than 150 minutes NTTD is the one that feels the shortest to me.

    Agreed; feels shorter than both of those films.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited December 2021 Posts: 7,551
    Feyador wrote: »
    I get the objective criticisms of the Blofeld reveal in SP; but it largely worked for me, at least at the emotional level, if only because I've invested so much in the involvement of SPECTRE from my childhood days. I especially loved the dark gravitas of the group meeting in Rome and, perhaps, for that reason feel just a little betrayed by the abruptness, levity & tonal inconsistency in which the entirety of SPECTRE is dispatched in NTTD.

    I even ask myself if NTTD might have benefitted from a Safin-like character in a lesser role (and not as the "super-super villain")--perhaps as a SPECTRE assassin or even replacing the character of Primo. I say this partly because the only Safin scene that truly worked for me was at the house in Norway in the PTS. But also because I'd have preferred the return of the Blofeld & SPECTRE narrative. I just don't see that the introduction of Safin (whose plot & motivations make little sense to me) as adding anything interesting to the film, though I get that the marketing of Malek as the villain of the new piece was perhaps crucial for purely commercial reasons.

    I don't think I've ever agreed with a post more. Word for word.

    EDIT: I lost track! I was going to make my 5,000th post a review of Spectre, but this is just as good.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,473
    Really dawned on me tonight how sad I am in a way we'll never see another new Daniel Craig James Bond film. He was the Bond I grew up on and the Bond we had for the longest amount of time, so it feels especially sentimental to me and just strange and empty in a way. This is actually going to be the first actor transition I'll have gone through as a fan. I definitely think it was time for a change, as I said long before NTTD actually dropped, but still, it is tough knowing Craig is done. He was so good.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Really dawned on me tonight how sad I am in a way we'll never see another new Daniel Craig James Bond film. He was the Bond I grew up on and the Bond we had for the longest amount of time, so it feels especially sentimental to me and just strange and empty in a way. This is actually going to be the first actor transition I'll have gone through as a fan. I definitely think it was time for a change, as I said long before NTTD actually dropped, but still, it is tough knowing Craig is done. He was so good.

    Welcome to my world crisis, Mr. Bond. ;)
    You are so young... Connery was my first. Many changes since then. Dalton still rules IMHO...
  • BirdlesonBirdleson
    edited December 2021 Posts: 2,161
    I also started during Connery and am far past getting attached to any actor. I’ve been more than ready to move on for awhile, though I wish a couple more had been made in the last decade.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I also started during Connery and am far past getting attached to any actor. I’ve been more than ready to move on for awhile, though I wish a couple more had been made in the last decade.

    Yeah, I just started watching Nikita, and it's awesome. Halfway through first season almost- like a hundred 45 minute episodes of serious espionage wow... if only Bond producers could match that writing & production level at LEAST yearly...
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,473
    Nice. Maybe after the next guy I’ll become as jaded xP I fully recognize Bond as bigger than any one man, but being the sentimental person I am, I get affected by certain experiences and time frames.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I like Craig a lot, but I’m ready to move on.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited December 2021 Posts: 4,343
    Craig is my fav Bond. He’s the first Bond that I saw in a theater but I’m happy this era wrapped up. I’d loved another one inbetween QOS and SF tho, but it is what it is. I’m ready for the next one, especially after a film like NTTD.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Feyador wrote: »
    I get the objective criticisms of the Blofeld reveal in SP; but it largely worked for me, at least at the emotional level, if only because I've invested so much in the involvement of SPECTRE from my childhood days. I especially loved the dark gravitas of the group meeting in Rome and, perhaps, for that reason feel just a little betrayed by the abruptness, levity & tonal inconsistency in which the entirety of SPECTRE is dispatched in NTTD.

    I even ask myself if NTTD might have benefitted from a Safin-like character in a lesser role (and not as the "super-super villain")--perhaps as a SPECTRE assassin or even replacing the character of Primo. I say this partly because the only Safin scene that truly worked for me was at the house in Norway in the PTS. But also because I'd have preferred the return of the Blofeld & SPECTRE narrative. I just don't see that the introduction of Safin (whose plot & motivations make little sense to me) as adding anything interesting to the film, though I get that the marketing of Malek as the villain of the new piece was perhaps crucial for purely commercial reasons.

    I have said it before: The best version of Safin is the one that isn't on screen at all. The puppetmaster who has SPECTRE steal the weapon and the scientist for him; gets Leiter to recruit Bond; has SPECTRE basically kill itself, thinking they would kill Bond and finally has Bond and Paloma extract Valdo and the virus. Through all of that he arguably only has two people who actually know they are working with/for him (Valdo and Ash). Everyone else thinks they are advancing their own goals and get completely played by him. He is kind of an inversion of Blofeld and SPECTRE's "we have people everywhere" approach. He has no people. He has your people working for him, without even knowing it. His final master plan (as far as we can figure it out) even hinges on the virus being spread by people who have no idea they are carrying it.
    By the time the action shifts to Norway and then the island, he reverts to pretty standard "lair-having villain with an army of henchmen, scientists and worker bees", which is kind of boring and at that point his motivations also fall apart. I am talking myself more and more into the headcanon that he actually had no idea what to do after he got his revenge on SPECTRE and Blofeld and everything after that is his aimless fantasy from when he was a kid and him kind of cosplaying as a mega-villain.

    I agree that they cast a well-known character actor as part of the marketing machine and the Craig-Bond formula (Mikkelsen, Amalric, Bardem, Waltz and Malek is a murderer's row) and I guess at some point the guy has to actually appear in the film and not just be a player in the shadows, but they could have done a better job with it, I agree.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    If they had made Safin a stronger, more outwardly memorable character that would have put a lot more of the focus onto him. And in my opinion, the villain was not the most important point of this entire movie. The personal side, the emotions, wrapping up this particular James Bond's life encompassing his relationships - those were the important focus and purpose of this final film. So I don't mind Safin, or the poisonous garden, not being so memorable or super exciting visually in a match up with Bond. I feel the emphasis of this movie was where it should be. Let the next one, with a new Bond, gives us a hugely satisfying villain with different challenges for Bond. So I agree with the way Safin was portrayed and presented in NTTD simply because it served the movie better as it was done, with what we were given.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I found Malek’s performance a bit hammy at times, but I’m glad we got Saffin. YOLT is my favourite Fleming novel, but waiting six years for round two with Blofeld wouldn’t have felt worth it imo. I thought we had the best of both worlds really. The loose ends from Spectre were tied up, but they were used as a jumping off point into something new and exciting. I was gripped and wanted to know more as soon as I saw him staggering across that lake. Not sure watching Blofeld break out of prison would’ve had the same effect for me, I’d just have been waiting for them to get on with it.
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I like Craig a lot, but I’m ready to move on.

    Same. He’s been brilliant and I’m glad he came back for one more, I thought it was a great sendoff, and I was really impressed with his performance (five films in and he was still finding new sides of the character to explore). But he’s been doing it for so long that I’m ready to see it reinvented again now, so I don’t think I’ll be pining for him when the next one comes out. He had a good run and went out on a high, I’m happy with that.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    edited December 2021 Posts: 1,394
    Craig only got one really good movie in my opinion ( CR ) and I never really warmed to him as Bond so I’m pretty much glad his era is over.

    I just hope whoever we get next brings back some of the fun and charm to the series.
  • StamperStamper
    Posts: 387
    That ain't gonna happen.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    I just hope whoever we get next brings back some of the fun and charm to the series.

    This is a criticism of Craig that I used to agree with, but it seems a bit 2008 to me. I thought Skyfall bought a sense of fun back nearly a decade ago, and NTTD bought back the OTT fantastical stuff (we had gadgets, bionic eyes, nanobots, goons with sci-fi magnets). Did none of the humour in the last few films land for you? If you just mean they’re too emotionally heavy, then I can see where you’re coming from, and I imagine we’ll get a more straightforward thriller next time. But I think anyone expecting a return to groanworthy sex puns and invisible cars may be disappointed.
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