NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • Posts: 1,394
    That whole scene of him standing smiling waiting for the missiles in sacrifice after saving the world (and his family) was what they based the whole movie on. It was all written backwards from that one point.
    So the fatal gunshots did happen, but they couldn't get in the way of the final stance and smile. Bond there suffering and bleeding and bent over like a staple wasn't the death they wanted. But the bullets were needed to get to that point of no return I think.

    Yep.Agree with this.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,335
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    He sure looked hale and healthy, standing quite erect and firm as he waited for this missiles to descend. So, I doubt has was bleeding out.

    There are clear shots of him bleeding and one in particular of his blood dripping on the ground,he barely managed to climb the ladder to the top of the facility.He was dying.

    Not all that surprising given how many times he was shot at close range by Safin. That was a real visceral shock the first time that I saw it. In the same vein, the one mystery I don't quite get is how Safin survived all of those bullets in the PTS.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I think Bond gave up himself, after he knew his love and family life was no longer possible. I don't think the Bond of CR & QoS would have given up that easily....because he was a hard-edged loner in those films, who always looked at the mirror to treat his wounds. Bond always came out victorious in the past, because he had no family, so the villain only had to go after Bond...which is never an easy feat. That's why Sanchez in LTK, felt the heat from a loner Bond as well.
  • edited March 2022 Posts: 1,085
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Not all that surprising given how many times he was shot at close range by Safin. That was a real visceral shock the first time that I saw it.

    Yea. I think Safin made five shots, then there was a few really loaded seconds before the next single shot in the back, (you've had your six?), and it was quite brutal, I agree. That last shot in the back affected me much more than the happy death bombing.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    @ColonelAdamski , there are many screenwriters who, after getting a general sense of the story they want to tell, explore their ending first.

    Then they go to the beginning; fill in the Inciting Incident. Plot Points at the end of each act and mid points. Then move into plots B, C and D.

    Having a firm idea of the ending is wise; no matter how far off the rails the writer goes in early drafts , they have the ending to anchor them....
  • edited March 2022 Posts: 1,085
    And that's all fine if it isn't all so obvious later on.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    I'm unclear on what you're saying @ColonelAdamski
  • edited March 2022 Posts: 1,085
    Let me explain it this way then. NTTD feels convoluted. You can tell they built the script around the death, and it makes it feel less organic when you watch it. It may well be the most stylish Craig movie, but I think it's also the most clunky, and it's all because of the dead/dad Bond mess at the end.
    He had to die a certain way to make it meaningful and worthy. So the list of circumstances that preceded his death had to be ticked off one by one on screen, and you can see it. It's so obvious that it gets in the way of the emotional flow of the film.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    That's your opinion @ColonelAdamski .

    I personally didn't feel this way in the slightest.

    I was listening to Roger Moore's Cubby Hole where they interviewed Olly Smith. He stated his own pros and cons of NTTD, but, his wife and daughter felt it was one of the best Bond films. After this admission, he believes the film hit all the right marks for the general audience.

    And that's what show biz is; it's a business that needs bums in seats, and; even more now than ever: repeat business.

    In a crowded marketplace, No Time To Die competed with an exceptionally beautiful film that caught the attention of global audiences.

    It did the job it set out to do.

    This just wasn't your cup of tea.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,154
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    the one mystery I don't quite get is how Safin survived all of those bullets in the PTS.
    Dr. No's heart was on his right side and he once survived an execution because the would-be killer shot where his heart should've been, not where it actually was. When Madeleine shoots Safin, there's a bullet hole on his left side but it's not a fatal shot - almost as if she didn't hit his heart because it's not where it's supposed to be... When you add the Noh mask and the underling calling him 'Doctor', you can see why there were rumours that Malek was playing Dr. No, eh!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    Let me explain it this way then. NTTD feels convoluted. You can tell they built the script around the death, and it makes it feel less organic when you watch it. It may well be the most stylish Craig movie, but I think it's also the most clunky, and it's all because of the dead/dad Bond mess at the end.
    He had to die a certain way to make it meaningful and worthy. So the list of circumstances that preceded his death had to be ticked off one by one on screen, and you can see it. It's so obvious that it gets in the way of the emotional flow of the film.
    That's precisely how I felt.
    How simple it would have been to give us (ME) a last, fun Craig Bond victory over terrible odds.
  • Posts: 1,085
    It wasn't what I wanted, but it was what most people wanted, yea. Completely. They did very well in making a complex yet broad crowd-pleasing movie that has earned much praise.
  • Posts: 1,085
    chrisisall wrote: »
    .
    How simple it would have been to give us (ME) a last, fun Craig Bond victory over terrible odds.

    I'd have loved that, seriously.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited March 2022 Posts: 9,511
    My own confusion is why would anyone think Craig’s last would be a rip roaring stand alone? Spectre (a very flawed entry and my least favourite of his five films), was dark— even with its attempts at humour.

    I never expected his last to be some joy ride. Instead I thought they were going to double down on CR’s idea of half monk/half hitman and Double-Os having a short life expectancy.

    Quite frankly, the scenes in Jamaica, for example, gave me such joy as I was seeing the melancholy of James Bond that I envisioned at the beginning of YOLT the novel. And him being thrust into and “coming back to play”, in NTTD— this broken and long missing agent— also made my heart flutter since this will be the closest I’ll likely get to seeing TMWTGG novel played out on the big screen (and yes, I love that novel!).

    But throughout the years between SP and NTTD, never did I ever think DC’s last was going to be a fun and whimsical joy ride.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited March 2022 Posts: 13,901
    peter wrote: »
    That's your opinion @ColonelAdamski .

    I was listening to Roger Moore's Cubby Hole where they interviewed Olly Smith. He stated his own pros and cons of NTTD, but, his wife and daughter felt it was one of the best Bond films. After this admission, he believes the film hit all the right marks for the general audience.

    And that's what show biz is; it's a business that needs bums in seats, and; even more now than ever: repeat business.

    In a crowded marketplace, No Time To Die competed with an exceptionally beautiful film that caught the attention of global audiences.

    It did the job it set out to do.

    And to me it was all very masterfully done. And I'm not exactly general audience, I've walked the earth since the 60s.

    Not at all expected on many levels, especially with the departure of Danny Boyle (and rumors that convinced me that HE wanted to kill Bond as the creative conflict he left over--totally wrong on that part). Though I was aware enough close to the release that it was likely happening and I was ready for it.

    But what a bold, fitting, heartfelt tribute to the character and the WWII connections of Fleming, Broccoli, Saltzman, and many of the original makers of the franchise. Very smart and tasteful choices made through this production. Place it in these pressed times of the pandemic and the delays, even more so.

    So there are slivers of meaning for the characters through each sequence that combine and grow over time and resonate to film's end. And it's definitely not defeat presented to me there.

    The theme I'm left with when the credits roll is: It's a good life. The best. Commercial and critical success is the icing on the cake.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    This:
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Beautifully stated @RichardTheBruce … I’m very much on the same page as you. I think the film was a great artistic achievement (as well as a commercial success).
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,901
    peter wrote: »
    My own confusion is why would anyone think Craig’s last would be a rip roaring stand alone? Spectre (a very flawed entry and my least favourite of his five films), was dark— even with its attempts at humour.

    I never expected his last to be some joy ride. Instead I thought they were going to double down on CR’s idea of half monk/half hitman and Double-Os having a short life expectancy.

    Quite frankly, the scenes in Jamaica, for example, gave me such joy as I was seeing the melancholy of James Bond that I envisioned at the beginning of YOLT the novel. And him being thrust into and “coming back to play”, in NTTD— this broken and long missing agent— also made my heart flutter since this will be the closest I’ll likely get to seeing TMWTGG novel played out on the big screen (and yes, I love that novel!).

    But throughout the years between SP and NTTD, never did I ever think DC’s last was going to be a fun and whimsical joy ride.

    Yeah though I didn't quite expect the film as presented, now it makes perfect sense and then some.

    Credit to the producers for taking it on and making it count.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    I never thought I'd dislike a Bond movie more than Moonraker. But here I am....
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    peter wrote: »
    My own confusion is why would anyone think Craig’s last would be a rip roaring stand alone? Spectre (a very flawed entry and my least favourite of his five films), was dark— even with its attempts at humour.

    I never expected his last to be some joy ride. Instead I thought they were going to double down on CR’s idea of half monk/half hitman and Double-Os having a short life expectancy.

    Quite frankly, the scenes in Jamaica, for example, gave me such joy as I was seeing the melancholy of James Bond that I envisioned at the beginning of YOLT the novel. And him being thrust into and “coming back to play”, in NTTD— this broken and long missing agent— also made my heart flutter since this will be the closest I’ll likely get to seeing TMWTGG novel played out on the big screen (and yes, I love that novel!).

    But throughout the years between SP and NTTD, never did I ever think DC’s last was going to be a fun and whimsical joy ride.

    Yeah though I didn't quite expect the film as presented, now it makes perfect sense and then some.

    Credit to the producers for taking it on and making it count.

    Agreed @RichardTheBruce … the producers aren’t idiots. They knew that by making this film, that it’d likely upset a percentage of Bond fandom. But they had the balls to do it anyways.

    Their gamble paid off.
    Most responded strongly and you make almost eight hundred million (during a pandemic) when there are repeat customers coming back for more.
  • edited March 2022 Posts: 1,394
    Venutius wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    the one mystery I don't quite get is how Safin survived all of those bullets in the PTS.
    Dr. No's heart was on his right side and he once survived an execution because the would-be killer shot where his heart should've been, not where it actually was. When Madeleine shoots Safin, there's a bullet hole on his left side but it's not a fatal shot - almost as if she didn't hit his heart because it's not where it's supposed to be... When you add the Noh mask and the underling calling him 'Doctor', you can see why there were rumours that Malek was playing Dr. No, eh!

    Calvin Dyson goes into detail about that in his long review.There are photos of deleted scenes from the film which mirror The cell from Crab Key in Dr.No and in one line of dialogue from one of his men,he is referred to as “ Doctor “.

    I’m pretty much convinced now that Malek was indeed supposed to be Dr.No and that they pulled away from it in editing given how badly “ Brofeld “ was received.

  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited March 2022 Posts: 699
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    the one mystery I don't quite get is how Safin survived all of those bullets in the PTS.
    Dr. No's heart was on his right side and he once survived an execution because the would-be killer shot where his heart should've been, not where it actually was. When Madeleine shoots Safin, there's a bullet hole on his left side but it's not a fatal shot - almost as if she didn't hit his heart because it's not where it's supposed to be... When you add the Noh mask and the underling calling him 'Doctor', you can see why there were rumours that Malek was playing Dr. No, eh!

    Calvin Dyson goes into detail about that in his long review.There are photos of deleted scenes from the film which mirror The cell from Crab Key in Dr.No and in one line of dialogue from one of his men,he is referred to as “ Doctor “.

    I’m pretty much convinced now that Malek was indeed supposed to be Dr.No and that they pulled away from it in editing given how badly “ Brofeld “ was received.

    If that's true, it staggers me that the idea made it as far as filming. It would've been yet another pointless reference and added nothing to the story. The fact that they were able to cut around it just shows how inconsequential it must've been.
  • Posts: 2,161
    chrisisall wrote: »
    .
    How simple it would have been to give us (ME) a last, fun Craig Bond victory over terrible odds.

    I'd have loved that, seriously.

    It would have been nice.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    edited March 2022 Posts: 1,400
    Good thread on Reddit; Nomi ends up with 005.
    https://bit.ly/37qjABZ
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Venutius wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    the one mystery I don't quite get is how Safin survived all of those bullets in the PTS.
    Dr. No's heart was on his right side and he once survived an execution because the would-be killer shot where his heart should've been, not where it actually was. When Madeleine shoots Safin, there's a bullet hole on his left side but it's not a fatal shot - almost as if she didn't hit his heart because it's not where it's supposed to be... When you add the Noh mask and the underling calling him 'Doctor', you can see why there were rumours that Malek was playing Dr. No, eh!

    The heart is in the centre.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited March 2022 Posts: 3,154
    Yeah, in real life - but a lot of people don't seem to be aware of that and the old wives' tale that it's on the left persists in a lot of places. A little kid like Madeleine was in the PTS could well have the fallacy in her head that the heart's on the left and shoot accordingly, no?
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited March 2022 Posts: 699
    The heart's apex points to the left so one could still hit it by shooting slightly to the left. The actual condition Fleming was referring to is Dextrocardia, where the apex points to the right, though the heart remains in the same position in the centre of the chest. So what Fleming describes is technically possible though saying that the heart is on the right side of the chest is obviously misleading.

    22698.jpg
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The heart's apex points to the left so one could still hit it by shooting slightly to the left. The actual condition Fleming was referring to is Dextrocardia, where the apex points to the right, though the heart remains in the same position in the centre of the chest. So what Fleming describes is technically possible though saying that the heart is on the right side of the chest is obviously misleading.

    22698.jpg

    The safest way to shoot this baby is to aim for the middle either way.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited March 2022 Posts: 554
    I haven't been on here since before the film came out (forgot my password...) but to not go too in depth as everything I could say has been said before, I truly loved the film prior to the end. Yeah, Safin was undercooked, I wish there was more of Bond and Matilde interacting because that was a fascinating concept in my eyes, but overall it was a great experience (RIP Felix).

    And then Bond died.

    Look, I knew going into this there was a good chance Bond would die. But I always expected it to be done in an ambiguous way, I think. Not to leave it open for another Craig film, but just to have a little ray of hope for him. I was waiting for it right up until the moment he got blown to bits on screen, and then I had to try to make my peace with the fact Bond really was dead.

    It's not that it's necessarily a bad decision from a narrative perspective. It suits the story and Craig's Bond overall despite its contrived nature. And it was certainly bold to kill him in a clear-cut way, showing a dedication to telling the story that Craig and Broccoli wanted to tell. But I just can't bring myself to like it. Seeing Bond, and especially Craig's Bond, my Bond who I grew up with die really kicked me in the balls. Of course, that was the intent. Yet I simply cannot appreciate it like I can for various other deaths of fictional characters I loved no matter how many insightful takes I've read. It's the most irrational of issues, but it's how I feel, and it's why I can't rate NTTD as highly as I want to.

    If I had to choose between this and the last scene of Skyfall as caps to the Craig era, I would choose the latter any day.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited March 2022 Posts: 4,247
    I thought Safin would be a sort of stalker-killer in many scenes with the mask. I can only imagine what an actor like Bardem would have done with that mask. Not that Malek's performance was bad, but they didn't given him the menace that was so marketed around him in the trailers. I think Barbara even said he was a nasty piece of work.
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